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User Topic: N.P.D. Thread Part V
veritas
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Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

b&h: I have left and/or kicked him out many, many times. It just depends on how high your tolerance is for pain and what you're willing to reason away. If he really is an NPD, everything that comes out of his mouth will be a lie. Or at least 97% of it will be. So don't be shocked by what you find when you start to "verify." I can tell you right now that knowing what I know, I would have wished to have never met him, or to have left him at the first sign of NPD craziness.

Lied2: She herself has a master's degree in social work! She is the extreme cliche, as am I.

Your dream gives me chills, too, but I don't know what it means. My feelings are kind of a "somebody's walking on my grave" type of thing... creepy...


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Longlost
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Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone posted this one before. I don't buy "co-narcissism" 100%, but I think there's a lot of truth here.

http://www.alanrappoport.com/Co-Narcissism%20Article.pdf

B&H, I've likened living with an N to being abducted. They are so able to suck you into their version of reality that you can lose sight of the truth.

You must do what you feel is the right thing. But if there is any way that you can, please talk to an IC. Whether your guy is NPD or not, what he did to you goes far beyond a "mistake." It's cruel and unusual punishment. If you are willing to stay with someone who is capable of being this dishonest and cruel, you need to develop coping skills. Who knows, maybe an IC can also help you to understand and overcome his power over you.

I wish you all the best, whatever you choose to do.

LL


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bh - rb runnin buddy -
look =
don't worry one bit about disappointing or letting down.

You are doing the thing that a basically "good person" does - searching within yourself & asking -
That's ALL good!

I heard the question; "what's wrong with me - is something wrong with me?"

Have you been checking the past threads? Lots of reading there, right? Go ahead - edumacate yourself...it'll all come clear, make some kind of sense in time -
and I DO PRAY you will find peaceful acceptance of what resonates, and rings true to you!

Awhile back, stuff about Stockholm Syndrome was looked at....helped me!
it will be allright, ok? Look at stuff - learn stuff. See how these good folks here will help - they are the most awesome!
Love you rb- hang in!


Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In looking back at past e-mails from 02 up to present, my N will *CAPITALIZE* his initials within a word.
Yes! He actually picks it (his 3 initials) up & out.
How blatantly narcissistic is THIS?
I just used to think it was some sort of a "quirk" a long time ago but now, knowing what I know about NPD, its all part of the self-adoration, hubris, etc.

An example:

"I went over to the liBRarY today..."

Has anyone's N ever done this?
Also the ends of handwritten sentences goes way up which is known as "hand waving" in graphology -- an excessive need for attention.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dreamlife that is just freaky.

My ex usually doesn't capitalize anything, not even his own name and especially not other people's names. I figure it is just because he is lazy and has no respect for others.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
veritas
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Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine Loves, Commas. And He Used To Write All, Of His E-Mails With Initial Caps. He Especially Loves, Exclamation Points! And He Has His Own Character, For His Initials. It Makes A Face, And A Nose! He Even Wrote It On His, Water Bottle. And For The Longest Time, He Went By His First Initial And Middle Name, Not Just In Writing Or In Signatures, But He Would Sign His Name, A.McLoserPants! With The Exclamation Mark!


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! How telling!!

See, even these N quirks appear in handwriting and I could pick my N's writing out due to excessive use of "quotes", too.
And, he signs the capital of his first name very large with the rest of the signature growing ever smaller which makes sense because he despises his family.

Lied2~ I agree. Your N is either too damned lazy to respect grammatical rules and/or feels "above it all" with respect to treating others on an equal footing.
IMHO ~ your N doesn't give a shit, right?

Veritas, WOW!
That is weird...sort of run-on sentences, and that exclamation point punctuating your N's pontifications. Does he also jab and stab at the air with his index finger when talking? Its like he has ALL these Very Important Points to make!

Oh, my N also makes fun of how people pronounces certain words, calls them hicks, & will write out the words as he feels they are pronounced complete with mis-spellings...like "sear-dee" for saturday, etc. He also re-names by spelling a certain noun backwords; yes, he loves to write words backwards as in cake = ekac.

Jeez, I could pick out my N's writings from amongst a mile high pile of others a mile away.

Anyone else?


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
downfall
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Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Tribe,

Stopping in to let you know that Life is good even with the daily difficulties created by N. The children are making great strides lately, and we have overcome some real issues with their feelings of abandonment and insecurity.

We have a few lurkers who I would like to welcome.

And of course my article for sharing I never let up on my reading because I find it too easy to slip into behavioral pattern of dealing with N like everyone else.
-----------------------------
From:
http://www.echo.me.uk/npd3.htm

What happens when the false self starts to crack?

Now before I give you the impression that narcissistic people are bad to the core, purposefully out to hurt others and should be segregated from society (which is not my intention) I would like to point out that they may or may not be consciously aware that their entire lives are geared to securing narcissistic supplies. They may know they like to be desired, admired, adored and respected but unless they have had some form of counselling or come from a psychological background it is unlikely that they understand their impulses, feelings or behaviours. Often they don't want to understand because they are just happy to exist, through your eyes.

A Narcissist's charming behaviour lasts as long as they get what they want from you i.e. that you provide evidence to confirm their view of themselves as special. In any relationship where people spend a lot of time together it is normal for the parties involved to notice the others bad habits and behaviours. To some degree it is normal behaviour for people to point these bad habits and behaviours out to the other person in order to try and improve the relationship. Narcissists do not react kindly to this, they see it as an attack on their perfection. As a result of this their behaviour starts to change. The lovely person you know will start to disappear as the damaged part of them emerges, the things they do to impress you will become fewer and farther between, you will start to feel less and less special to them as they start to treat you badly and show their frustrations (overtly or covertly) at your inability to meet their needs more frequently. This is known as your "Devaluation".

Vaknin maintains that this process of devaluation can occur when the Narcissist becomes bored or used to the way you function as a NSS.

During periods of frustration which are brought about as a result of their needs not being met narcissistic people will certainly make you aware of your inability to meet these needs. They will either do so overtly; raging, abandoning, publicly humiliating you, belittling your abilities and possibly becoming abusive. Or they will do it covertly; giving you the silent treatment, sulking, discussing things that they know will upset you or behaving in ways they know you find hurtful regardless of if they are related to the frustration you have "caused" or not.

If their frustration stems from their own inability to meet their wants and needs e.g. not getting a promotion, loosing at sport, receiving criticism for work they have done etc. the frustration is usually transferred onto the people they interact with (often their nearest and dearest) or it is channeled into harmful activities such as excessive drinking, drugs, gambling, driving fast etc. In "transference" what the Narcissist is in effect doing is taking their feelings of "I'm bad/inadequate/guilty" and passing them on to you because they don't want to cope with anything that shatters their good image.

Maybe at this point you will try to work harder to make them happier; you will start to question the things that you have done wrong to bring this change about and try and make amends. Maybe they will start to manipulate your emotions to extract more narcissistic supplies from you even if that's through intimidation and fear. They may even tell you the truth, tell you that they are no good for you and how badly they behave. Maybe you'll jump to their defence telling them they are valuable with renewed hope that there is something alive/good inside them. Before long you won't know what's real/the truth and what's not. Years may pass and you will wonder when the person you first met is going to come back. If you are prone to loosing yourself in relationships it's likely that by the time you've decided you've had enough (or you've been dumped by the Narcissist as a NSS) you will already have lost sight of the best parts of yourself and taken on a few of their more interesting character traits.

When the end comes it doesn't arrive quickly. The Narcissist may come back for more when other NSS's aren't in ready supply or not doing their jobs properly. They may even enlist the aid of their friends to bring you back to the fold or intimidate you. Or maybe you will try to go back to them because you miss their presence in your life (which is usually the result of a loss of adrenaline that was previously generated by the highs and lows that interactions with Narcissists bring). You're unlikely to get any closure on the basis that you to and fro or because there isn't going to be a happy ending where you're going to get the answers you need to feel happy about what happened in order to be able to put a lid on it.

There are a few things you can console yourself with, firstly, and most importantly you will have people you can turn to. Your friends, your family (if they're not part of the reason that you've accepted this type of Narcissistic behaviour for so long) and your Doctor or a Counsellor. Even people who cry in the street are asked "Are you ok?" if they stand still for long enough, I've seen it (not that I suggest you trust any stranger you meet - choose your confidants wisely I made a mistake or two myself).

Secondly, the Narcissist isn't going to be spending time worrying about how you're feeling or analysing their part in what went wrong in your "relationship". This is because they won't think they've done anything wrong and they don't like to dwell on any negative emotions. In fact it's likely they will feel a sense of relief that they no longer have to work so hard at keeping up appearances. They'll just go and find another NSS to replace you, if they're good looking or successful it won't take them long so rest easy for them. Talk about it out loud, analyse it till you're blue in the face, anything that helps you to process what's happened and learn from it.

Thirdly, as far as I can see only five sets of people can maintain a long term "relationship" with a Narcissist; An honest to goodness Saint (how many of those have you met?), a good Therapist, "fair-weather" friends (who are often as shallow as the Narcissist is), family members on whom the Narcissist is dependant for narcissistic supplies and those who don't mind (even enjoy) being a NSS because they're probably not aware they have absolutely no security that the Narcissist will admire, respect or love them back long term. So try not to be too hard on yourself if you've taken all you can stand.

Finally, things will get better. It may not be quick in fact it may be hell on earth for some time but like any loss or death of a loved one it will get easier for you to cope and you'll start to feel good about yourself again.
-----------------------------


Many positive thoughts for all!

[This message edited by downfall at 9:05 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)]


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

downfall - that's outstanding.
A great help.
Thank you for posting it!
Much food for thought and analysis there...

Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
peridot
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Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is something that I posted in general the other day but thought I would post it over here. Since our big fight he is staying in the room, away from me. I've also been looking for a job and have had several interviews in the past few weeks. So I think he is finally seeing that I may not need him as much as he thought I did. That or he is in shock from all this independence that I have suddenly gained back in myself. I've been trying to detach myself from him and I have noticed how much better I feel. It's not all about him anymore and I think he might be scared.


I didn't think that my husband has this but after this weekend I am almost sure he does. Talk about a rollercoaster from hell! This weekend we have been doing some major fighting. I wrote him a letter telling him how I feel. Later that night I asked him if he read it and could we discuss some stuff. So we did and it turned into a huge fight. Of course everything is all my fault and he said the letter was all about me... well yes, I was telling him my feelings. I tell told him that I couldn't keep going on like this and thought that a temporary seperation might do us some good. Especially for the kids because we are at each others throats all the time. I'm currently looking for a job and told him that once I find one I would like him to leave. He takes that to mean right this minute. So he starts to pack...not the first time he has done this when we fight...the kids are all crying. I told him that I didn't say right now, after I get a job dumb ass! At one point this weekend we are supposed to be calmly talking things out. He gets in my face, tears up my cigarettes and throws them at me. One minute he tells me that he is leaving when I get a job but he is putting his paycheck in a different account, it's direct deposited, and taking over the bills. I let him have the bills, I actually gather them all up for him and then later he gives them back. We have gone from him leaving right away, when I get a job and never. Oh, and at one point he really thought that I would leave without my kids and he would stay here and take care of them. I told him it would be over my dead body before that happened. Then he keeps changing his stories around.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:17 AM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

peridot, (((())))

You are doing well to detach - stay strong in that.

It's mind boggling to be screamed at and have things thrown at you, and all the other destructive, cruel things -
seems like the mirror's cracked, & the mask has slipped...

I hope you're able to find time to read up - the previous threads have a wealth of insight to help you... I found the articles posted by downfall & many others of the ((((Tribe)))) to be amazingly accurate.
Despite the difficulty of the rollercoaster from hell - I can't say enough about the wonderful people here- it has been a huge comfort, and I believe a life-saver for me.

Are you going for D, lawyered up & all?
Anyway, huge ((((hugs))))) to you peridot -
stay strong -
the people here are wise and wonderful...


Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
lied2
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Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eranda posted a wonderful article called Understanding The Process of Self-Delusion. I think it very weel explains some of the crap that the NPDs do on an ongoing basis. It talks about people who may get into the cycle of selfdeception as part of an addiction but I think in the case of someone with NPD and other PDs it is part and parcel of their damage from very young and is added on year upon year to the point where they are completely incapable of functioning without the self-deception.

It does a good job of describing the insanity of the situation and how we can't break through the defenses even if we wanted to. Their memories of events and so badly twisted that they can't see the reality. Their brains won't allow it.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I ask if any of you suffer with thinking people are talking about you? I seem to have an issue with worrying that people are gossiping about me and my divorce.
I keep myself to myself at work and I have only told my boss about my divorce. Obviously, it seems to have got around and someone accidentally dropped themselves in it and mentioned something that I have never told them.
Obviously I have an issue about wanting to keep things to myself (shame issues) and I don't trust people with knowing things about me. It just makes me feel uncomfortable knowing that people know things about me that I wish they didn't. I have tried using the cognitive behaviour stuff but I think I have got myself in a hole with this one. Any suggestions?

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I ask if any of you suffer with thinking people are talking about you? I seem to have an issue with worrying that people are gossiping about me and my divorce.
I keep myself to myself at work and I have only told my boss about my divorce. Obviously, it seems to have got around and someone accidentally dropped themselves in it and mentioned something that I have never told them.
Obviously I have an issue about wanting to keep things to myself (shame issues) and I don't trust people with knowing things about me. It just makes me feel uncomfortable knowing that people know things about me that I wish they didn't. I have tried using the cognitive behaviour stuff but I think I have got myself in a hole with this one. Any suggestions?

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
lied2
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Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ITS are you saying that the worrying that other people know is causing you to feel upset?

I know my ex said all kinds of horrible things about me to his family etc. I don't really care because he is a huge liar and anyone stupid enough to believe a liar and a cheat has problems of their own already. They will find out all by themselves that he is a liar if given long enough.

(((((HUGS))))))

I know it is painful to have people know you are divorce and the possiblity that they think you somehow caused it or whatever. If they have gotten to know you at all they will be able to see that you are a good person. That is all that matters.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
dreamlife
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Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, lied2.

itsa~ do you just "think" this or is it due to your ex N...they are famous for maligning GOOD Character!

What does your IC say?

When I have a lot of these anxieties, my IC has told me to just say: "So what?" over n over...sometimes it helps.

I have been uttered it aloud & quite vehemently in supermarkets, etc.

NoC & cj...MISS YOU!!!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 1:12 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Lied and Dream. I have done a lot of work with my counsellor about my feelings of shame etc and she says I also have to do the "so what" thing. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't. The place I work in is very gossipy and I don't have anything to do with the gossip there but I hate to be the subject of gossip. I have even heard that my marriage ended because I was having an affair with a co-worker! As if!
I feel that I have suffered enough without gossip-mongering joining in to make me feel even more stressed out. I will ignore it but it makes me feel shitty.
I think it is also time to look for another job!
Thanks guys!

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((HUGS)))))

It sucks when people can't mind their own business and try and make you feel like you are a target. I don't think we can escape it so we really have to try and develop a thick skin and ignore them. The old "talk to the hand". I always hope in time our character speaks for us.

Hang in there sweety. Maybe putting out a few resumes is a good thing.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

itsa, this is another reason why I'm leaving My Town without Pity & making a brand NEW start in late 2008!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
peridot
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Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, March 20th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found a job yesterday, don't start until April 7th. I am on cloud nine and happy as hell while he's sulking around the house. I told him to either start showing some remorse,not just words but action or he could get the hell out. I also told him that I want an apology that has not been forced out of him. I told him that the words "I love you" will not work anymore. He had better show me some change. He won't tell me when or if he is leaving. So I guess in the end I will be the one to make that choice for him. He may not like my choice though.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
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