She has been fence sitting and lying to MC about feeling towards OM since day one. She never wants to open up. Sometimes I feel it makes it a waste because of that. My sh*t is on SI and on my sleeve. No games.
I even know one of her worst constructs in her mind. It is never good enough. She projects that on me. I can never do enough.
I could not hold back and said today "you messaging him was not loving me". She could not comprehend as she had both for so long. Cake eating. It is down to a choice. Me or other life. The window is closing on me.
I hold out hope but for how much longer and new hurts I do not know. I really cannot take even one more new hurt. I need to move forward now and will. I hope she comes along for the next chapter. It will be MUCH better than the first.
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 6:51 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]
I really cannot take even one more new hurt. I need to move forward now and will. I hope she comes along for the next chapter. It will be MUCH better than the first.
Have you presented her with a written list of what you need to move forward....with boundaries that MUST include NO CONTACT with OM??
I say written because it is apparent that verbal communication and dialogue is not effective for you two at this point.
Does she want to R??
Does she want to S and/or D??
Seriously hefty, it sounds like either you two cannot speak lucidly to each other and are hopelessly spinning your wheels....or she is fixed on a different agenda than your agenda and goals are.
What is your MC and IC saying to you both at this point?
Have you called her on the lying about her feelings toward OM in a C session??
Something has to give here, hefty...one way or the other.
Healing takes a LONG time from LTA..no question...but to begin that process, at some point, there has to be a stated willingness from the WS to make the M the priority.
[This message edited by lovegonewrong at 7:55 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]
DDay #1: 04 March 07
DDay #2: 10 May 2007 revealed all (I hope)
profile has all the sordid details...
She wanted separation and R but I was kinda against separation for one reason. I view it as the end. The sh*t sandwich I am swallowing gives one shot. Also the effect on DD.
She states she wants R as well. She does a caring behavior and back to contacting OM. Voids it out IMHO. The night that burns me so hard was a bit over a month after d-day. I waited for her to come home. Setup candles made it real romantic. We had a nice private time. Next day she emails OM. WTF am I supposed to do?
She just refuses the deep conversations. I feel my pain is not acknowledged, I should just shut the f up. Be happy she is just here.
That is so much BS. I will NEVER go back to the marriage we had before. She treated me like sh*t. I self medicated with beer, pron, and friends. They never treated me like crap. Her affair perpetuated my behaviors. Frig I never knew I was even controlled.
I have given up all of it already. The trauma of D-Day knocked me out of needing those things. I realized I must have better and deserve it. I am a great person.
It appears she is here:
1) Has intense resentment towards me. Justified the affair.
2) She lost the affair and it's my fault. Christ the whole thing is my fault.
3) She still wants both M and A even though in the end OM used her and wants nothing to do with her. She is basically still in the A by herself.
What she did was so horrible that without new good memories and a dedication to the M and our DD my desire to R is weakening.
I need something to think about between us besides the A. I need new memories. I need to be treated nicely. I need respect.
I so much want this to work. I do love WW so much but is hard with her continued actions. They are not loving towards me at all.
Some other SI's even called her out in the wayward forum offering to help. I wish she would take it.
I fear so much for my daughters life. She is why I keep going. She is at the point of being aware at almost 3. I want her so badly to have a mommy and daddy in one house. God I love her. I can cry thinking about us separating. 50% time with my angel :-(
I wish my wife would see what her actions are not only doing to me but to her.
You are going to heal at your own rate. Frig WH had two years to have the A so 7 mos to heal? I expect you to be a roller coaster for a year+ for any normality. HE HAD THE AFFAIR AND IF HE HAD NOT DONE IT YOU WOULD NOT BE ON SI AND HURT LIKE HELL. I wonder if he is "owning his sh*t". You are normal at this point IMHO.
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 8:13 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]
You may have to do a 180 on her to knock her off that fence.
Best of luck my friend.
Lovegonewrong. The answers. Sometimes I have to stop and put myself in H's shoes. Stop and think about if you were the one that had had the A. Think about how hard it would be to make the words come out of your mouth to your H knowing the pain that you are about to cause him and also the damage it will cause to the M. I'm not saying that they should keep these answers from you. I'm just saying that after I have lived the trickle affect, I can now see how hard it truly is for them to admit to the things that they did. And I'm sure that there is plenty that they actually did forget. Little details that would mean alot to us were meaningless to them. Sometimes I'm able to hit on a question to my H and he shakes his head and says that never in a million years would he have thought about that or even thought it to be important to me. Just trying to tell you to give the answers some time. I know that we as BS want it all out and up front right in the beginning and all at once. I've told my H many times to try and put himself in my shoes and try to imagine what it feels like to be me. But I think sometimes we have to do the same thing for our WS. Just imagine being in their shoes. Makes me shudder just to think about it.
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
Sci-Fi this time
Close Encounters of the Worst Kind
Night John Boy
"The Wheels of the Bus Go Round and Round"
One of my favorite old "classics"
"Gone With the Whore ow"
Night Mary Ellen
"Jack and Jill-ho went up the hill....
Jack left her there and went home to his wife."
Hugs to Tribepeople who are going through a difficult time. Vent,sob, laugh here. We have all been there, some of us more than others,( ).
Hope today brings some light into your life.
Tried talking to H last night. I realised another dysfuctional pattern in our M, but unfort he took it the wrong way, and told me to F**k off.
Strangely, I wasnt offended. I just went to sleep.
And woke up feeling very sad FOR him.
I know this sounds really condescending, but I dont mean it to be: I am watching a 40 year old man, who has been stuck at age 18, trying to grow up. And he is realising that his whole life was an illusion. He is NOT who he thought he was. And worse, he has done some horrible things to himself and to the people who love him.
This morning he looked terrible.I do feel for him BUT I must not let that over-ride me,my needs, my self. I can not rescue him anymore.
which is what that pattern was. we were roles reversed: he was the damsel, and I was the knight.
Think I have enough for IC today.
Thanks for playing yesterday guys. It was fun!
OTC, I would SO hate to be on your wrong side!!
You know I've been feeling rather awful about my weight issue lately. He knows it.
So while we're getting dressed for the viewing, he asks me to put out a pair of his dress pants. I grab a pair of 32 waists and he puts them on and starts bragging about how big they are and how he's back in his 31's and that he's no longer a "fat blob". On and on about how great it is, while I'm thinking where am I going to lay down so I can zip my dress pants.
And on the way home, he asks me to drive by the Dairy Queen so he can get some ice cream. We pull in and he asks me if I want anything. I say no and it doesn't even dawn on him THEN that I'm dieting seriously. All night how "wonderful" the ice cream was and I'm thinking "I wish you had choked on it".
On that note, I'm off for a while today for the funeral. I'll check back with you all later and catch up on the posts from last night.
Hugs to everyone.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Guess I better steer clear of SI today being as I stayed on yesterday. Boss was out of the office but will be back today.
Hope everybody has a good day. I'm planning to.
Thank you for helping me deal with an awful day yesterday.
I wish you all a great day.
As for me I am going to invest in me and my marriage and do everything I can to save us. I love my WS and DD and will make it!
Thanks again for dealing with a grumpy heftysmurf.
I am off to the gym after work. Cannot wait!
Re your H's comments,
He is something, isnt he?
BUT do you think he said what he did to delib hurt you? No, I dont think so. There have been many times when my H made comments that I took offence to, but in hindsight realis that they werent criticisms about me.He wasnt trying to hurt me, but in my world, all I heard were him picking on me, when they werent even about me.My insecurities and low selfesteem just heard it that way.
I try now to listen to what he is saying and not use my filters, for eg. if he says theres less salt in the food, I dont hear, "LH is a bad cook". I accept that he finds that theres just less salt in the food.And he is trying to make sure that the msg gets across that "There is less salt in the food BUT the meal is excellent and LH is a great cook, bar none!" LOL.
Maybe your H is just trying, in his "own" way, to rebuild his own selfesteem, and not recognising the impact of his words on you. I wonder how we could have handled the icecream incident differently?? C'mon Tribe. Thinking hats on!
Hey uptome. You know Shirley wont be on till later, so quit sucking up!
Come join me by the tea trolley.
Hefty. I am glad you are feeling better. But I dont think you are listening to what we are telling you.
As for me I am going to invest in me and my marriage and do everything I can to save us.
You cant save "us" by yourself. You need your W to be in it with you.
Invest in you..YES!
Invest in your M....NO! At least not right now.
What M are we talking about Hefty??Your WW is still breaking NC, and she will continue to do so because she knows that you will cry and be upset, but she will get away with it. In fact she will do even better, because you will be the one hopping and dancing trying to fix it. Come on HEfty!!
You deserve better than that.
Why dont you love yourself Hefty?
I know that is coming out so mean, but thats the same issue we discussed in IC today. I allowed my H to treat me like crap the whole M, and even after dday, because I didnt (dont)love myself enough. So how did I expect him to love me the way I wanted.
MAybe you are not ready yet for this, (heck I am OVER 1 year later)but PLEASE for now, LOOK AFTER HEFTY.
I see much of me in you, so I know the road you are heading down and I so dont want you to make the same mistakes I did.
Do you what my H told me after dday when I asked him how could he have treated me so bad all these years when I all ever did was love and care for him
He said, "You were a wimp. You let me walk all over you. When I did something that offended you, you would make a small fuss, I would defend myself, and you would back down, go crying to your room like a little girl." Then I would come back and try to make it better, even though I didnt do anything wrong.
Much as it hurts to even type that now, every word is true. Please stand up for yourself Hefty. Even if it means that your M might end (which I highly doubt cos I think she needs you more than you know), at least your DD would have a strong able dad.
The things that made me go through 3 months of hell:
1) I absolutely trusted and loved my wife 120% before D-Day.
2) Always put other people 1st
3) The thought of my daughter getting harmed by this hurts me so much. My love for her is so absolute. I blink and I see her. Hearing "where is Mommy" and "where is Daddy" is something I do not want her to experience. It is my personal nightmare.
4) Never loved myself. Actually in many ways hated myself. I am not a bad person at all thinking about it. Smart, handsome, trim, loyal, faithful, hard working, caring, etc. Wow I could keep going :-)
Only thing I can do is control myself. Work hard on me. Invest in me. I have A LOT of work to do but I am worth it.
Praying we make it!
I also see so much of myself in you. My H took awhile to go NC also. He wanted the M and felt the remorse, but he also felt remorse for what he felt he did to her. WTF.
I will never understand that. Add that to the list of things I will never understand. At some point I decided I HAD to take care of me. HAD to make me happy and also HAD to make sure he knew I would not stay in a M where the A was continuing.
I think H thought he could still be friends with her, as that is how it started.
But eventually the fog lifted and he saw what he really wanted(I hope). Not sure if OW has really figured that out yet, or if she is still waiting for him to come back.
At this point I know this is what I want and it is also what H wants, if he screws (so to speak) it up again, he knows it is over for me.
But I can only take care of me!!
I believe the 180 is really needed in your case, give her time to decide what she really wants. But take care of YOU!
So from that point on I did the 180, not 100% the SI way, I picked and chose what I wanted for me, it wasn't for my H it was for me because I finally realised that was the only way I was going to survive this and I understood that HE had to make the decision, I never wanted him to come back in the future and tell me I had forced him. HE had to do it. I believed my marriage would work but ONLY if the two of us wanted it. So, I made a decision, I decided I would live with what he was still doing for the time being, but at the same time I would start living without him in the sense that I started building my own life, I booked golf lessons for the first time, I went out to dinner with friends looking better than I had in years. Even on our 8th wedding anniversary I went out and left him babysitting our children, I left him crying on the doorstep that night. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but it made me feel good because I began to realise I would survive if this didn't work out.
By doing this I gave him a gift, one that many on SI don't agree with I know, but one I decided was the right path for me, I gave him the gift of time to come out of his fog and make his decision. I'm no saint believe me, but due to the previous dynamics in our marriage and his inability to make decisions in the past I knew he had to do this himself.
The 180 achieved two things, mainly it left me able to just about face each day. I still had stints spread on the floor sobbing, I still spent hours sitting in the dark thinking endless thoughts and wishing everything could be different but I did manage to get up everyday. But the side effect was that my H noticed. He hated it, in fact I discovered an email conversation with his ow where he was telling her about the 180 and how he hated me "moving on" and she replied that maybe she should do the 180 on him but she wouldn't be that selfish . It was about a month after starting the 180 that he finally made his decision to stay and end with ow, but he needed two weeks away on his own to make that decision, I also took a week's holiday on my own for me time and he had to take the week off to look after the children. We told the children that he was going away on business and he phoned every couple of days to speak to them. I must admit he took a further six weeks after coming home to finally finish contacting ow, but he did finally go nc in September last year and he swears he is now. Since september he has changed beyond words. I am now married to a man that I never knew existed. It is so ironic that he is now married to a miserable, depressed, overeating lump who can hardly get her act together on a daily basis, but there you go that's LTA land for you.
I'm going into this in some detail to try and show you that you can assume nothing about your future, all you can do is decide for yourself what you want and then act on it in the way that you feel is right for you. But I can tell you that there are two ways to do this, carry on focussing on her and your marriage and make the pain much worse, or focus on yourself and what you want out of your life today and it will get you through each day.
It's so so hard, it took me weeks to be able to 180 after the first time I read about it and thought I should try and do that for ME. It is now taking me months to be able to focus on myself again, this time round I actually have an h who is saying that he wishes I could do the 180 again because it would help me to feel better about myself! And he can't bear how he has been responsible for destroying my self-esteem.
It can happen Hefty, really, truly it can, but only if you look after yourself first.
ETA: The 180 is not just about going out to the gym or doing things for yourself, it is a mindset, you have to really FEEL it, that is actually the hardest part IMHO.
[This message edited by mumto3sat at 10:53 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]
Take care of you! The wise ones her told me that over and over again also. Took me awhile to get it, but I finally do.
Everytime I discovered contact and confronted H he went further underground. I finally told him he could continue to hide it, but I had to take care of me and focus on my life and my kids lives. I would not share him any longer.
Things are entirely different between us now. Yes, I still have anger and alot of hurt to deal with. And we still don't communicate as well as I would like. (we hardly ever talk about the A or OW). And he could still be cheating on me way underground, (how do I really know, trust is gone in our M now) but he is doing everything he can to show me respect, understanding, and love. I have give myself time to rebuild the trust and in the meantime, focus on me.
Can you get IC or do you have a trusted friend to talk to? I only have one person who knows about me and WH, but it helps. I don't talk with her about it much anymore though, I think she was tired of hearing it all. This is the best place to vent. We all understand and bring alot of experiences to the table.
Take it a day at a time and do something just for you today. (((HUGS)))