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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs -IX
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Life and talks with our spouses shouldn't have to be run like polite business negotiations

But NAS, thats exactly what he expects. He says he cant deal with my emotions/tears/sadness/anger/frustration etc.
He cant understand why I cant deal with an issue in a polite non confrontational manner, and then he can respond in a polite non agressive manner, and we can both be grownups about it.

I do have a problem with starting with one issue and then the other 10 000 jump in. It feels like they are all tied and related...and in a sense they are. But I need to focus on the immediate issue. Another problem I have is that I am always unsure when I am being gaslighted or lied to. I cant tell with him. So I will spend some time looking at what he said from every diff angle, which then bring on another issue.

Its all just so f*cked up, isnt it? Lately I have been thinking that the only way out of this mess, is to only focus on me.Screw the M.If it was that impt, he would put in almost as much effort into it, as I have been doing since day 1.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost-

He says he cant deal with my emotions/tears/sadness/anger/frustration etc.

I don't even know how to respond to this. These are the emotions that humans are supposed to have. This is what makes us human. You can't shut these down or you will drown or worse. Ask my H who learned very early in life to put these away (except for maybe mis-directed anger) how it led to self-destructive behavior. This sounds like a GREAT topic for him to explore with IC and, once he has, for you two to address in MC. JMHO...

BTW, I actually laughed last night doing that. I could just picture the mods rolling their eyes at the silly old ladies (sorry, menfolk) over in LTA.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He cant understand why I cant deal with an issue in a polite non confrontational manner, and then he can respond in a polite non agressive manner, and we can both be grownups about it.

Ah....and herein lies the salient difference between being the cheater...and being the cheatee.

So frustrating, Lost, I know your pain.
They want (need) the BS's attitude and demeanor to mirror their own new-found clarity and maturity. All well and good and rational...for them.....finally, now.

BUT....it is not so easy for the cheatee to stuff their emotions (and where do they go if not expressed?) and sit posture perfect, calmly discussing what is in essence...."your life."

Its all just so f*cked up, isnt it? Lately I have been thinking that the only way out of this mess, is to only focus on me.Screw the M.If it was that impt, he would put in almost as much effort into it, as I have been doing since day 1

Actually, Lost, this isn't such a bad thing to do...... If you can keep your own survival in hand as your top priority while you try to effect better communication with him.

If you stay loyal to you, in front of the M....you may find that moving through these frustrating patches won't leave you feeling so defenseless and so unsure.

Be sure of YOU..if nothing else.

[This message edited by numb and scared at 11:02 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
JoePike
♂ Member
Member # 13207
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you guys. I vary from feeling good about how I've learned from this, but then on other days I think about how my M is dead and how I might have been a big part of the destruction of another marriage (Don't know how OW and her BH is doing, been NC for a looong time).

I especially look at whether holiding on to my anger for a long time and inability to take the first step prevented my xW from opening up.

Then I come full circle and realise it was never about me....


"Do or do not. There is no Try" - Yoda.

"The term ďmistakeĒ infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper


Posts: 3952 | Registered: Jan 2007
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"What we call the beginning is often the end. And to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from."
-TS Eliot
an appropriate quote...best wishes Joe!

Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geez - go away for a weekend and come back to find all new digs (nice job, FSA, I love the breezy, bright feel to our place) and so many topics I just don't know where to begin.
First I think LH you have discribed exactly what I have the most trouble with - controlling my anger about this entire LTA mess. I will say it does get better over time and the need to purge does begin to decrease but when I do "blow" it is as nasty and heated as you can only imagine. I love what NAS said about it being "like having acute emotional nausea which will only be relieved by verbal vomiting." That was a great way to put it NAS! Also, I want to add that I seldom feel guilty about my anger. I sometimes wish I hadn't said a particular nasty comment, but for my own sanity, when I feel this buildup of anger, I have to release it or I will become ill from trying to contain it. I'm sure there is a more constructive way to do this than lashing out with some of the most vile things that we can say to our spouses but up to this point I have to say this is the most satisfying.

HurtShirley - sorry I missed the whole beauty question but I am so glad you brought it up. The lines in my face that I've noticed over the last year are terrifying me and I'm glad you opened this topic - I now have some new products to try out. We should do before and after pics. BTW, I did love the suggestion of dividing our face in thirds!
Just also wanted to say congrats to all the Giants fans and sympathy to all the Patriot fans - it was a great game and I'm not that big a football fan but I actually did lose a few nails in that last quarter.
Hope everyone had a good weekend!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks NAS for understanding. I am determined this year to focus on me and my crap. I just need to be vigilant not to let HIS and M stuff not over-ride that. If he does pull any stunt in the future, I want to be strong enough to either walk away or stand up.

Joe,

Then I come full circle and realise it was never about me

But thats a good thing, dont you think? How liberating to know that it was never about you.

Shirley, I will pass on your thought to him. We have stopped MC for now. We both have our own issues to sort out in IC, and unfort MC on top of that, was getting too much.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW - I tried to find Steering Clear in 2 bookstores and neither one had it. Is this an older book? I guess I'll go on Amazon to order it but I was hoping to start reading it this week. It sounds like a definite must read for all of us. I can't remember who recommended it but thank you for this suggestion.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe us local guys could start our own book club? Pass them around, you know?

I'm actually headed to our library to look for it.

lost, This was one of the down and dirty fights H and I had a few weeks ago. I told him almost exactly what shirley said... that REAL people have emotions and show them, only the f'd up ones hide everything and seize up inside. That's the one where he started to cry and I thought MAYBE he realizes just how weird it is that he can only express anger. But that went away.

I have a picture in my head now of Citizen Kane. Where he and his wife were portrayed at opposite ends of a dining table. How the table grew longer as their estrangement grew... conversations slowly growing more and more "polite" until they didn't speak at all.

Feels like that's where we're heading you know?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow I survived it to the new forum.

I am feeling your fight you had Weepy. I get a lot of anger and feel stuck.

I want to move on with her and I do not know what she wants.

Sad day as well as today is 3 mos Anti-versary. The day that changed the last 6 years of my life.

Have the alone feeling today. Wishing my wife would step up. We can make this work if she was willing. I still love her.

[This message edited by heftysmurf at 1:00 PM, February 4th (Monday)]


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feels like that's where we're heading you know?

Weepy, do you believe that? Do you believe that there is no other route that your M could follow? (other than D).
I dunno...recently your H seems to be showing some signs of wanting to connect with you, or be a better H.They have not been ideal nor consistent, granted, but if you have been living in a desert for so long, then you would welcome even a thimblefull of water. I remember you posting a while ago (and I hope I am not confusing you with someone else) that you prayed that he would show even a slight sign that he cared about you, and not just the kids.

So do you think that your expectations have changed?
I am asking because I am genuinely interested. There are a few people here that I identify with, and you are one of them.

***
HeftyS,

I do not know what she wants
.
If I remember correctly, WW broke NC again last week right?

Hefty, you have been told over and over again. LOOK AFTER YOURSELF.
Just take some time out from this A-crap and M issues, and just give yourself a break for a week or two. Give yourself permission to NOT think up solutions and whatifs, not think of what she might or might not be doing. Just for this while, focus on your DD, your health, and your spirit.
Your WW will still be there, as will your M.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lost, he has been a better husband (surface stuff) but as far as connecting.... I feel like we're in a permanent 180 or there's so much interference we just can't get through to each other....

Example. I asked him to stop by WAWA on his way home from work for some bread. He said he'd already made his daily stop. So I guess I'm then supposed to say "will you still stop for me?" because I wound up going myself and he gave me the "you didn't ASK me to make a special stop for you." But he couldn't OFFER? He couldn't say "I already stopped, but I'll get the bread on my way home." So I'm pissed that I had to go get my own bread and he doesn't understand why I'm pissed because all I had to do was rephrase my question." He knew what I meant!!!!

I spent 8 years asking him to do things, or asking him for things and got nothing. Either he ignored me, said he didn't hear me, understand me or I couldn't have what I wanted. So why wouldn't I have trouble now?

I told him the other night that I wanted him to ask me to stay married to him. That he'd never actually asked me to marry him in the first place, that our engagement got screwed up and maybe a new start meant a new start, you know? He immediately told me that we couldn't redo the past (not what I meant) and that whether to stay in the marriage or not was my decision, he had nothing to say about it. I just told him it would be nice to be asked.

He calls me so often during the day that we have nothing left to talk about at night when he's home. That's kind of why I pictured that scene. If I tell him that he doesn't have to call so much (it's a left over from when I needed that) he gets all "So, you don't want to hear from me any more?" And when I explain that yes, I do, but he doesn't have to "check in", it's "will you make up your mind?"

That's why I'm pushing for the Retrovaille weekend. We need some communication skills, both of us. Or we'll wind up in the same place... he'll have some "need" not being met and will suffer in silence until the next young thing comes along and then I won't know about that either. And I can't ask if he's drifting away because then I'm jealous and paranoid and insecure.

There's no clarity, everything's muddled.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((weepy)))
Its so tough when theres so much of muddy water under the bridge.
Your dialogue reminds me of the examples on the Imago Therapy site.So much of what we say and heard is filtered by so much other crap.

H and I have similar issues.Before I wouldnt ask him for much of anything after years of asking him and not getting anything or being made to ask again and again and...

We dont seem to have that much of a problem now with it though (touch wood). I am learning to be more direct and ask straight out with no other messages in there. I just dont have time to flaff around his needs and feelings etc. And he is trying to do what he says he will do when he says he will do it and not have me ask him again. Trying.

But like you guys, we also have alot of muudy water under the bridge, but I guess its good enough (for now)that we are both trying.

For eg. he said he will do the kids uniforms for the whole week (as "penance" for another issue we have which i wont get into). And so far, he's doing it. I will not step in nor will I remind him. I will let him be.
Whereas before, he would go all PA on me, and I would cajole or get frustrated or just do it myself. And he would accuse me of taking over, not giving him a chance to be responsible etc.

Weepy, re. H's calls, how about limiting them to say 3 a day or even short txtmsgs. And even then, keep the conversation short.So by evening time, you guys get to spend some chilling time talking about the day and reconnect, bearing in mind that reconnecting means different things to you two.

So weepy, have you thought about how you are going to spend this year? Remember when you first found out, we were giving you all sorts of ideas on how to spend it doing things for YOU? Well, have you any ideas?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I checked into the book club at our library today. Now I'm going to check into the other local ones because the book these guys are reading does not interest me at all.

I'm trying to do what the IC says and find at least an hour a day to do for me. (I've been spending hours here, does that count?) But I did start to read again this week. Even if it is a relationship book.

I really hoping the unemployment extension goes through!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Come on Weepy!! You can do better than a book club!

You sound like such a vibrant passionate person. There MUST be something more exciting than reading (with all due respect to avid readers of which I am one!).
You like dancing..how about checking out your local Y if they have classes. Or taibo?

***
To those that are meeting up tomorrow..have a wonderful time. Tip:Wear waterproof mascara.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi folks, Iím back in the land of SI! What happened to the last thread? I see itís now spring theme, canít wait for spring, the snowdrops are out and, down south, the crocus are up too. Too many pages, but Iíve scan read through the Chablis and caught up with yíall. Iíll have more time tomorrow. MeanwhileÖ.

The Brit Gathering in London was a really good day out and Iím so pleased to have met such a nice bunch of people in the same boat as me!! And. We. Are. All. So. Lovely!! Obviously, we had loads to talk about and lots in common. I feel even less alone. When I think where I was this time last year (6mths out); I have been elevated several storeys since I found SI. Canít wait for the next meet. Did someone say US somewhere?? Well, Iím game!

And LostH, it was sooooo lovely to see you, I wish we could have had longer. Was that me? Leggy blonde Ö.. Hmmmm!! !! Doesnít know what he nearly chucked away!! And how can your WH not see what a diamond he had in you?? You are a star. A shining star. Idiot. And no, FWH still doesnít know what Iíve been up to or who Iíve seen this wíend. Although he has his suspicions. Donít care. My space. My time. But he missed me, which was nice. But itís just as well I went to the supermarket b/c there was no milk, no dinner for tonight, no beers, no tonics (to make my white wine spritzer), and the fire needed clearing and relaying, the wood basket was empty; for goodness sake, I was only gone the weekend! Oh, and the dog didnít get walked Ė again. FWH used to walk the dogs every morning (one died last year and I still miss her) just so he could text OWÖÖ Enough melancholy. But heís still a fuckwit.

Can we still have an open fire in here? I love a log fire. And thereís still six weeks of rubbish weather. Iíll chop the logs if you like.

Iím trying, really trying to be positive (sorry, the Chablis wrote pisitive, my subconscious is telling me something!!) about this M.

Weepy, I remember that in Cit Kane. Food for thought. And, guess what? My FWH never asked me to M him either! He thought it was a good idea cos my parents werenít going to have a white wedding (Iím one of four). He was buying a house and meantime, in three months, maybe I could organise????? Some proposal!!! And, of course, he asked OW to marry him both before (1970-whatever) and then again when he rediscovered her.

Hefty. Itís okay. Weíre here for you. Breathe. Patience. Time. You. DD. Hard, I know. Wait for the pain to subside a bit. Still early days, hon.

Three nights with no sleep. Iím off. Night night. I love my Tribe.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost - We had to reschedule for next week. My SIL's dad died and the funeral is tomorrow. The weather is really dreary here so I'm hoping we get some sunshine next week. If not we'll bring our own.
Weepy - we'll talk about the book club when we meet. My sister is in one now and loves it. An SI book club might be a great idea. I always tend to put my needs aside and I have been wanting to read the books that everyone has been recommending and this would be one way to guarantee that I read them. I like this idea! Were you serious? And in the process we could work on our own. Might just work real well.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh I'm serious. We could meet at a Borders and sip cafe while we chat or even one of the libraries. I have TONS of books and only half of them are relationship-related.

LH: Um, can't do much with my back in the shape it's in. I'm going to schedule an appt. with a neurologist because I just can't make this about my exercise program. It's more than that.

Anyway, I promised myself I'd get a bunch of chores around here done that I've put off for years! Today it was clean out the top of my hutch, clean the glass, reorganize because it was rattling every time I walked through the room and was driving me crazy.

And we're eating Super Bowl leftovers because the time just got away from me.

Signing off for the night. H is on his way home.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

STEERING CLEAR
by Earl Wilson

Again, this is a super helpful book. I got it online.

As always many HUGS

[This message edited by no mor surprises at 9:56 PM, November 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
canbird
♀ Member
Member # 17238
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I find sometimes when I just read this thread I find the answers I am looking for.

My husband had (or is still having?) a 2 year affair. DD 1 I walked in on (last October). He swore it was over moved back home within one month. DD 2 he confessed that he was still seeing her (Jan. 20). He has been in a hotel since.

His IC told him that he should be focusing on himself right now (like the last two years wasn't about himself !) and that he should not move back home. He is still in phone contact with MOW.

I am finding it hard not to call him (we have teenagers), am finding it hard to accept being on my own and am also finding it hard not to know whether there is a marriage worth working on (over 20 years) or should I just move on (problem with that I have no single friends and I don't even know how to start).

So, my question for the LTA gang, how did you know when to sign up or give up on your spouses? Sounds like Hefty may be going through some of the same stuff. Sucks doesn't it?


I know now that in the heart of my angel, lies the soul of the devil.

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