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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs -IX
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We don't talk about the LTA. He doesn't bring it up. His job is too intense right now for me to initiate LTA conversation. He is loving & affectionate

LostS - This is my M also. Never talk about it. If I bring it up and try to explain why I maybe feeling down or angry, I know he will in a way "make me pay for it".

He maynot intentionally do this, but for the next couple days things will be very tense between us and then I feel like it wasn't worth it.

Hence, we are back to the very problem that brought on the initial disconnection and then led to the A. Hiding our feelings and not talking about issues that may make the other person feel hurt.

We need to go back to MC, IMHO, but right now his job is too demanding and he is traveling alot. Impossible to schedule anything for a few more months.

So we trudge along and try to enjoy each other now and just not talk or think about the past. Probably not the healthy thing to do in the long run.


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for all the hugs and thoughts about D-day/V-day.

On one hand I feel silly and childish for letting it be such a "poor me" pity party.....on the other hand, a part of me knows that it is necessary to call it like it is. And I bless you all for giving me the forum to express that.

fsa, I love your "burial" idea....could make a whole comedy routine on that, including pouring dogshit in the hole as the final stroke.

But the truth is this angst now is not even remotely about that slut..she is just the manure that was the catalyst for his descent down the slope.
And what happens to manure?? It stays foul and just becomes part of the compost pile.

This V-day stuff is about him and about what heinous steps he took to remain covert after our daughters caught him the first time.

But as in all things....'This too shall Pass".....
(listening to my own words here)

Hugs and thank you's to you all.

[This message edited by numb and scared at 9:43 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, so many insights that I am just going to say "Thats it exactly!" to all the posts, and not start quoting every line!

Ditto this!!! I can't keep up with all the posts, but keep trying. Febr. seems to suck for everyone. V-Day and depressing weather together = Lots of struggling BS.

Heres hoping the sun comes out soon for all!!


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Content  Posted: 9:59 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just forgave myself for something.

I had always held some guilt about how our engagement went down... with me screaming "either commit to me or let me go" and him throwing the ring that he planned to give me the next day, at me. I always thought it was my fault for doubting him.

Well, today, for some reason today, I realized that my gut must have been screaming at me. I mean he did finally confess to sleeping around within days of our getting engaged, possibly even past that, I don't know.

So I realized I must have known something was not right then to have forced such a decision on him.

And he was hurt... yeah he cried as he threw the ring... because in HIS mind, here he was FINALLY committing to me and I was not reacting grateful and loving. I mean in his reality, he had "given up" his wild ways and was ready to settle down. My reality must have been waving red flags about something. Because I really, really did want to marry him, I loved him.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH, what's going on? Did I miss something here?

No Weepy, I think I did!
You are confusing me with SoL, methinks.

***

He hates responsibility. Is so bad at it. So he will have to be completely responsible for weeks after surgery and I think it will eb such a strain. I am scared to death

SoL, sounds familiar to me!
What works best for your H? Does he like to "wing it" or does he like some direction or does he like to have everything planned and he just follow?
Work something out now SoL, to spare more angst later on for both of you.

***
(((up2me)))

i have no happy memories of the past 6 yrs to get me thru the financial bad time of now

I know the feeling all too well.
Why do you feel you are on the ledge? Whats going on with you? Can we help, even if its just to lend an eye?

***
Hi OTC! Doesnt professional incompetence just make you go arrrgghhhh??? Hopefully you will be much relieved tomorrow, and can better enjoy the weekend.

Thanks OTC for my cheer.
Dont get me wrong, I KNOW I am right about the money spending issue. I get proven month after month.
Its just annoying that he doesnt get it.And he is supposed to be the supersavvy money expert! However I will admit that he has become much much better in the last year. He is not so flippant about money. Now we just need to balance his impulsiveness with my tightfistedness.

Still, it does sadden me (and I know he feels it too)that we have to start all over again more or less from scratch. The financial insecurity just adds insult to the other hurts. KWIM?

***

If I bring it up and try to explain why I maybe feeling down or angry, I know he will in a way "make me pay for it".

(((HBH)))
Yes, he does know. Thats his PA way of dealing with it. And obviously if he is still smarting for days after, then the issue wasnt dealt with.
This doesnt sound fair to you HBH, and I am sure the others will back me up. He is manipulating you.

Can he not cut down his hours or something? Or can you conference call the MC from wherever he is?Or what about going on Sat mornings?
Dont let it build up over months Hbh. Like you said, it is this very dynamic that led to your disconnection in the first place.
And whilst on the surface you may both feel like things are ok, that undercurrent will be flowing through everything.

***

I just forgave myself for something.

Thats good Weepy, but IMHO, there was nothing to forgive.
Like you said, your gut was screaming out red flags and you reacted. He spoilt it by cheating even then, and by throwing the ring at you (prob his guilt).

***
(((Zanny)))
I am so pleased and proud to see you sounding so focused and levelheaded. Good going you!

***
Run??


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
mgmd
♀ Member
Member # 16826
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Went to MC yesterday. Get this the Therapist said "I should share responsibility for the A." I said "WHAT?"

He thinks because the A's lasted so long, that I knew, but somehow allowed to go on.
WTF. I said what about people owening up to their s**t. People need to take responsibility for what they do. Not to blame others. I said what about a robber, that robbs a bank, is society responsible? If I go out tomorow and have an A myself could I blame my H? NO. It would be my choice. I am not sure where he was going with this but I was mad. I said I refuse to take 1% responsibility. My H agreed (probably out of fear). He said that he F***ed up and I did not. This world is so, so screwed up I am not get it.

HELP


Posts: 153 | Registered: Oct 2007
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Run??

((((((((((((Lost)))))))))))))

I'm here. But I have to run off to work for a few hours. I'll have to come back this afternoon. Thanks for your thoughts.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He thinks because the A's lasted so long, that I knew, but somehow allowed to go on.

Well, fnf, does THIS sound familiar?????

Your C is an ass. Lose him NOW. You know better and so does every other damn expert I've read or talked to.

So Lost, looks like I got your post confused with Lost Heart's. so those messages are meant for you.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HELP

mgmd,

GET A NEW THERAPIST.

This guy is either a former cheater himself, or he has absolutely no clue about LTA's.
Either case, he surely needs to go back and study "patient/client support" 101.

[This message edited by numb and scared at 10:49 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a little O/T


Wasn't someone going to give me a fantastic chocolate cake recipe yesterday?????


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MGD,

Bad therapist. Find a new one.

We went through many before we found a good one. But boy, was she worth it.

*********
Sorry, I've been somewhat absent. Our parish priest died last week. Collapsed in the middle of Ash Wednesday mass and died the following day.

I wouldn't say I was really close to him, even after serving as lector and eucharistic minister for years. He was a brusque Irishman who was more at home with men than women. But I loved his no-nonense approach to life and religion. And he gave the best, shortest sermons I've ever heard. He was great with my H after d-day, a firm believer in owning your shit and not finding excuses for your faults. My kids called him Darth Priest.

I'll miss him.

**************
OTC:

I am glad to not be your doctor. But honestly, that is ridiculous to keep you waiting so damn long after screwing up the first time.

Rip 'em a new one.

***************


We had talked about trying to all show up here tomorrow about 4 p.m. (CST) for a Valentines Day toast. Anyone still interested?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am, BT

4PM...CST, right?

That will be 5PM on the east coast.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Went to MC yesterday. Get this the Therapist said "I should share responsibility for the A." I said "WHAT?"

Fire him NOW

That is complete and utter bullshit. DO NOT listen to that crap. The good news is you didn't waste much time on this asshole!!!

That will be 5PM on the east coast.

Well you all may find humor in the irony of this but my H and I are spending V. Day at the MC!! He was out of town for our regular session so we rescheduled to tomorrow afternoon. I didn't even notice it was V-day until this week. Probably the safest place for him to be. So I won't be able to join our SI party....


On one hand I feel silly and childish for letting it be such a "poor me" pity party.....on the other hand, a part of me knows that it is necessary to call it like it is. And I bless you all for giving me the forum to express that.

(((NAS))) it is not a pity party...it is mourning the loss...we can mourn with you.

OTC - rip 'em a new one! Come on, is this some kind of conspiracy in the pathology world? My mom was supposed to get her results back today from her surgery last week and they don't have those either.

ETA: fnf - hope you don't mind but I sent your post from the last page to my H. I think it describes perfectly the loss we are all feeling. The loss of innocence. The loss of our marriage and for what?

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 11:11 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mgmd
He thinks because the A's lasted so long, that I knew, but somehow allowed to go on.
That just makes me mad.

OTC, unbelievable!!!! Like BT said. Rip em a new one.

I can't make 4:00 tomorrow but I can probably trail in afterward, a little after 4:30. But all will be in my thoughts at 4:00.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, Numb. 5 p.m. on the East Coast of US. I think that makes it 10 p.m. for our London contingent and 2 p.m. for our West Coast girls.

Joe and Hefty and some of the newbies, I don't know where you guys are, so you'll just have to figure it out for yourselves if you'd like to join in.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 11:12 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mgmg, ditto everyone else.
Interview a few before you settle on one.

***
LTA Vday Tribal Toast
UK 9pm. I'll be there with a smoothie!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

***Language and Vent Warning*** Proceed at your own risk.

He thinks because the A's lasted so long, that I knew, but somehow allowed to go on.
mgmd - this makes me so mad my blood is boiling right now! IMO - Fire this asshole QUICKLY! Totally out of line and completely biased! There is NO recovery from this comment IMO and it shows where the whole slant of the therapy is going to go.

Quite frankly I think there are many therapists that WANT the BS to take this on because it makes their job easier and their damn egos can remain intact. Don't get me wrong - I had my fair share of work to do to make the M whole, but not for one fuckin minute was it to take my share of responsibility for my H's LTA! That was his and his only! I will take my share of responsibility of the deterioration of the M - no problem. I think many of these therapists know damn well they're over their heads in helping the WS's from LTA. They know as shit sure as we do that the WS's are fractured and most of them don't have the skill, intelligence or desire to even try to put humpin dumpty back together again! I really believe many of them want the BS to just make nice, quit triggering and quit spitting venom so they can sit back and claim a success in their work.

We have been with out MC for two years. She has done us a lot of good but at the end of the day my H still can go to feeling victimized by me at the drop of a hat. Last session I brought this up with examples and said I think our M does great as long as I don't bring up anything that makes him uncomfortable. He still defaults to victimized when I do. She started questioning him and he started to get pissed and feeling vicitmimzed ( what a fucking surprise! ) so SHE defaults to - does this remind you of your father? FUCK YES! DUH! WTF? We've been over THIS one a hundred fucking times! She had an opening with him DOING the behavior to HER and she didn't take it!!! ARGH!!!

Here's the kicker - he's READY to stretch it further and open up more but he needs direction and education. If I provide that then it's perceived as controlling. I've been waiting for her to do it but I think we're going to be waiting until hell freezes the fuck over!

OK, I'm really mad now - sorry - really venting.

At the end of the day kids, I hate to be such a downer about this, but I think we in the LTA tribe can only get partial benefit from what traditional therapy has to offer. When I hear of you guys who have therapists that hit right between the eyes I'm jealous. Ours has kid gloves the size of goats!

I'm sorry but I think I have heard one too many stories here of shitty therapists bumbling around in these LTA waters that they treat with cookie cutter methods and the BS and WS and especially the children in the M pays the price.

OK, I really needed to vent all that and I think it's my way of seperating with our MC as she is a lovely woman and has done us a lot of good. But I think we have come to a point where she is no longer effective for us and we need more to go deeper into the dynamics of the slide down the slippery slope. The book no mor suggested a few weeks ago that i have bought and now read has really opened my eyes to this. It has ALL the pieces the therapist needs to cover with the (F)WS in order for the (F)WS to understand the A did more than "just happen" (we all know that one, dont' we?) and every therapist in the world should be using that and Shirley Glass' book as their bible of therapy for the LTA and really any A.

I still believe therapy helps though you guys - so don't lose hope when you hear me ranting like this. This is what I do when I am getting ready for a big change. And there is also a lot of truth for me in a general, across the board way with what I said above too that has been wearing on me too.

OK, I'm done now. Thanks for listening guys.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTC - our first MC was too weak to handle our situation. As you all know, my H was lying to her and to me for 8 weeks until dday #2. She just did not have the firepower to get him to where he needed to be.

Here is our new MCs qualifications. I have removed her name so it didn't get googled here.


xxxxxxxx xxxxx, Ph.D. has been working with couples for 35 years. She is a co-founder of the Psychoanalytic Couple and Family Institute of New England (PCFINE) where she is Director of Education and a faculty member. Previously she was at McLean Hospital for 23 years where she co-founded the McLean Institute for Couples and Families in the 1980s. She is an Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychology at Harvard Medical School and has a private practice in Cambridge.

She is awesome. She has him discovering parts of himself and dynamics in our relationship that I never would hae thought of in a billion years. If anybody is in this neck of the woods (oh, BTW, guess y'all know where I live now ), I would highly recommend her. But, you can see the level of education, experience, etc it takes to deal with the LTA. It is not for someone who, as Run said in another forum, got their degree from a cracker jack box.

ETA: Hey OTC, maybe you could fly in once a week to meet with our MC and we could have lunch.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 11:55 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

no mor - thank you again for recommending Steering Clear. I read it and underlined the whole thing - would have been easier to throw a bucket of yellow paint on it!

My H is reading it now and he keeps saying "this is amazing", "this is the best book yet". I think does a fantastic job of explaining how normal people get caught on the slippery slope. Then we have to take into account how broken our S were/are and then multiple the angle of the slope x2!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just caught up 5 PM tomorrow, I'm there.

Just heard from H. He's been interviewing since 10 AM. It's looking good for him. I'm happy for him, but the change has me worried (so what else is new?)

Guess I'll talk to IC about it tonight, my fears, what it means for us now that he'll be working 60 hours a week, rain or shine.

BUT it comes with the prospect that I might not have to work, at least not full time. His benefits start day 1. We have to look over the plan and see if it covers mental health before we decide whether or not to take it.

Guess that kills Retrovaille since he'll also be working weekends.

The good news is it's a lot of computer work and he's already asked for my help since I'm the computer wizard in the family. He'll be using software I'm familiar with. He'll have an assigned territory so I'll know where he is generally all the time. And it's on the Upper Main Line (sorry nms) Layfatte Hill, Chestnut Hill (just putting that in for the local folks). It's a high dollar area. If he's good at it, he could make big money and could stop beating his body up working on the roofs.

numb, the subterfuge IS the worst part. Knowing the capacity is there.

I'm scaling back Vday. Just going to make the cake and order takeout. I wrote out my card today. There's not much more we can do but let the day happen and pass.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


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