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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -IX
shammarriage
♀ Member
Member # 18029
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, February 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for the insight. I should clarify-there is also a financial truth-the amount of money spent on the LTA. WH traveled for a living and took his OMW on many trips over the 9? years, cashed in freq flier mileage for her, bkfast, lnch and dinner for the trips, bought one of a kind exclusive perfume,expensive jewelry (this he denies,)and I believe has set her up in a home business too.

With 2 college age kids and me not working I believe this money belongs to my family and today as he has been out of the house for over a month he claims not to have the money to pay the household expenses where his family resides as we await temporary orders. Perhaps he would have had he not been so lavish on her with our joint assets!

Plus he has complained for the better part of 2 years that we don't have the money for me to buy things, clothes, homegoods, even some repairs!

I see a D as at least exposing most of that although not all. 28 years with him -our children and I deserve much more than a leftover husband and father who has squandered our family's assets on another woman who used it to enhance her life(married with a kid)and continues gaslighting, and may only be saying he wants R just to remain in current lifestyle and not be viewed unfavorably by children and the world-D exposes-if not the whole truth then maybe the real motivation behind R. I could not bear to try to R and have him be lying about that too! Double the heartache and double the debt. Do you think?


Posts: 94 | Registered: Feb 2008
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, February 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ya'll please indulge me. I couldn't sleep b/c these lines just kept going through my head.

I once knew this lady
Who just wanted a simple life
And a man that would be proud to call her his wife

She promised to be
A good wife and mother
If he would take her forsaking all others

When her life's journey began
Little did she know
From others it would be all take and not much show

Because, you see, all of her life
She tried to give of herself
It just seemed no one ever wanted to help

And then one day, with what little she had
Someone decided to try and take all that away
Never before had she realised that people could be so bad

Then once again, with the ring of a phone
She tried to hold her head high
As she realised that she was still all alone

Today she's taking one step at a time
Determined to see this thing through
Even when the challenge looks taller than a pine

She hasn't let life beat her yet
She's one tough ole girl
On that you can bet

So if you might be a lady like she
Never give up hope
Just keep praying to God on bended knee


O.K. now maybe I can get some sleep!!!

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:25 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((LTA TRIBE))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning, LostH!

Well, our friends came over on Saturday (he was best man at our wedding in 1980) for this dinner that we spent hours prepping for. There was enough food for the whole street!

We’ve not seen them since I spilled the beans back last summer after OW said she’d spoken to him on H’s phone. I accused him of being in the know (which he wasn’t) and I had a long talk with his wife a few weeks ago after they returned to the UK. Anyhow, they are also LTA folk, 6yrs worth and he moved out for a year (to deal with his messed-up head, she said). They reaffirmed their vows and took off to live abroad for a couple of years. The thing is, my H knew all about their affair situation, saw what it did do the poor BS, and on an ongoing basis, and STILL went ahead with his A. WHY DID HE THINK IT WILL BE “DIFFERENT” FOR HIM, FOR F*CK’S SAKE??? Why didn’t he think about what it would do to me and us? Oh, don’t tell me, I wasn’t supposed to know. W*nker.

She and I sat out in the kitchen for a couple of hours and mulled it all over. B/c they were at school together, she knew about my H and OW the first time around.

FSA I hope you don’t mind, I’ve taken a quote from you and made it my own. This is my version:

I have learned to never trust anyone. I have learned to not take things for what they seem to be. I have learned that words are just words, and his actions are to give me a false sense of security, just like his “actions” during the A. I honestly believed in what he did and said and had no idea that he was deeply involved with another. I have learned that for almost 30 years I have been nothing more than a housekeeper, banker/financier, decorator, gardener, cook, personal shopper and convenient f*ck. I have learned that I didn't matter to him for all those years.

We all seem to be so cut off from our S’s at the moment. Angry or flat or removed or just want out for a while. I’ve been the same. He’s gone off to work and I don’t care where he’s gone, who he’s seeing, how long for, what he’s doing, when he’s coming home or how he’s feeling. He’s gone off the radar and I don’t give a f*ck. When he’s here, he’s here and that still doesn’t mean a damn thing cos he used to sneak off into the loo or the study or upstairs to contact her and arrange their next little rendezvous.

Yesterday I got in and he showed me all the clearing up he’d done after the weekend, he’d laid the fire, emptied the dishwasher and done the washing up, and I’m just kind of “yeh, okay, thanks, ….. and?” What’s he want, a medal?

Sham, I would just give a note of caution. Separation and Divorce are two very diff situations. D brings in the heavy-weight lawyers and they don’t give a damn about whether or not you may want to reconcile. They have a job to do and it can get very, very nasty. If there is the merest hint that you may, at some time, possibly, could or would reconcile do not go down that road. Keep him out of the house by all means, find out your rights by consulting a lawyer from time to time, but do not start the process. Once it gets going, you may as well try to stop a Mack truck by standing in front of it.

HBH, How are you this morning?

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:23 AM, February 18th (Monday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seems like everybody is struggling as of late. So sorry for all.

I had an OK weekend. Me and WS went to some kids B-day parties this weekend and they went good.

I hate the damn rollercoaster. My WS still always appears angry with me and that is feeding my sadness. It is monday and I am very very sad. Have that alone in pain thing going on. Sucks so bad. Hope that is not how my week shapes up.

shammarriage - You are at a critical point. Do you really feel comfortable at this point going through a D? I can understand totally why you are at this point after your spouses actions. Just be as sure as you can with your decision. Be strong!


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’m going to try and have a “smile a day” week. The LTA has stolen my happy moments and, like FSA said “I want to live happy again” so I’m going to make a start by smiling more. I’ll begin with this, which you’ll all recognise:

A smile cost nothing, but gives much.

It enriches those who receive without making poorer those who give. It takes but a moment, but the memory of it sometimes lasts forever. None is so rich or mighty that he can get along without it, and none is so poor but that he can be made rich by it.

A smile creates happiness in the home, fosters good will in business, and is the countersign of friendship. It brings rest to the weary, cheer to the discouraged, sunshine to the sad, and is nature's best antidote for trouble.

Yet it cannot be bought, begged, borrowed, or stolen, for it is something that is of no value to anyone until it is given away.

Some people are too tired to give you a smile. Give them one of yours, as nobody needs a smile so much as he who has no more to give.

Okay, sometimes, if you make the effort to smile, you will hold your head up, look people in the eye and feel a whole lot better. The act of smiling, of relaxing the face, will relax the body and lift the spirit. So, when I am down, I will try to remember: Smiling is attractive, other people smile back at me, it changes my mood, it relieves stress, it boosts my immune system and lowers my blood pressure. It releases endorphins and serotonin and I will look and feel better.

Everyday, this week, I will find something to smile about. This is for me. And this is for you.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have learned to never trust anyone. I have learned to not take things for what they seem to be. I have learned that words are just words, and his actions are to give me a false sense of security, just like his “actions” during the A. I honestly believed in what he did and said and had no idea that he was deeply involved with another. I have learned that for almost 30 years I have been nothing more than a housekeeper, banker/financier, decorator, gardener, cook, personal shopper and convenient f*ck. I have learned that I didn't matter to him for all those years.


UKgirl & FSA,
It's all so sad and such an effing waste that to know now what our realities were. The question from NAS below though, is it not the same reality? The thought saddens me beyond words.


Is there now a new reality? A reality that includes allowing half truths and diluted truths to stand in place for the whole truth.?


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((UKgirl)))))
((((FSA))))))

I am sorry. I just dont have anything positive for you today.Just "I know" and hugs.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fsa,
i love your poem...fits me.

as for me, the "us" reality was a lie. i don't want to know anymore ugly from the dark side. i'll stay in the sun and let him be accountable for himself.

off to the gym...taking care of me!!


Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK ladies. Here it is. I'm not doing well. In fact, I'm boiling over with hate and resentment right now. I'm not at a place where I can suck it up and play nice for the sake of peace and quiet. I don't know why. It just is. But I am damn seething mad.

(((Run))) I am going to try to answer this for you from my own experience. I hope I don't ramble as I try to work through this. Please bear with me.
D-day arrives. We are in absolute shock and to some extent denial. We cannot believe what we are hearing. It is incredulous. No - it is just not possible that this man I have been married to for x number of years is capable of such utter deceit.
There are tears, many, many tears and rants and emotions never before experienced. There is hysterical bonding - god remember those days? The absolute need to reconnect. This is a wonderful time. It is the best sex we've had in years and it is every other day if not every day. We are in a state of utter confusion, emotions are raw, and we are doing everything, praying, begging, working so hard to keep our lives from falling totally apart. We are filled with fear. We cannot believe this is our life. We cannot believe this is the man we married. Fear envelops us. What will become of me? What will become of us? We are mothers. We are filled with dread for our family, our children. We cannot bear to have them suffer the consequences of our WH's betrayal and so we have a new, terrifying mission to save them from an unbearable pain, an unbearable reality.
We need help. We need AD's, C'ing, comforting, truth. We work, we struggle, we are in an intense mode to bring our shattered world out of chaos and into sanity. And we have no one IRL who can even begin to understand the depth of despair and confusion and pain that we are experiencing, not even our C's - they too are ill-equiped to help us.
Time moves on, we have survived our first anti-versary. Family life, that is the daily routine continues. We are comforted knowing that we have been able to keep our family together during this first year. Our world, though damaged, has not fallen apart. We have made new friends in SI, others who KNOW, who support us. We can laugh at silly poems, we can begin to feel some normalcy in our lives again.
Initially, and for the better part of that first year, there was shock, confusion, fear, numbness, utter despair and pain. These were actually buffers for facing the total reality that was now ours. The numbness that protected us is no longer there. The fear, shock and confusion no longer protect us. We are now standing there in total awareness with only our internal strength to face full-on this reality. Anger, that blessed emotion, is now the weapon we wield to help us in this next phase of our recovery.
This, Run, is where I think you are. I can tell you that after that 1 1/2 year mark, anger took over and I believe saved me as I moved toward my 2 year anti-versary. The buffers of shock and denial and fear and confusion were gone and I stood there with only my anger to protect me as I tried to decide what was in my best interest now. I was too busy before trying to save my family from total destruction. I was too busy trying not to fall so deep into that hole where I might never be able to come back to the me that I was before this awful truth. Like so many others have said here recently, I liked who I was, I was happy, I had good friends, good family bonds, wonderful children, I HAD JOY! And I wanted that back.
And fuck that bastard for trying to destroy the inner me just because he is fucked up. And fuck that POS OW who tried to take my life, my H and my joy because she was so damaged. No - you bastards - YOU WILL NOT WIN!!
I WILL SURVIVE!!! My family will not be destroyed, my joy will not be diminished, my life will not be a sorry, self-pitying existence. I will overcome.
So, Run, I think your anger is your weapon now and it will help you as you struggle through this phase of your recovery. We have to be careful not to let anger become our new way of life. This is critical. But anger, used during this stage, can be a powerful weapon. I am finally, after a good 3-6 months of this, feeling my anger diminish. I am now going through a phase of facing this reality and looking very honestly at my life and asking myself what it is I want and what it is I am willing to do to get what I need to move forward.
Keep posting during this phase and rant away. You will feel so much better. I have brought my H to his knees too with my rants. I could feel terrible about this but I don't. WTF did they expect? Of course, we can't continue to do this. Of course, we don't want to become this. But I do believe this is an important stage of recovery.
Hugs to you as you move through this stage.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need some 2x4s please. Following is what H said to me today, after I told him that I was sad and feeling depressed about our future and our M. I tried to explain about UU's Scarlet Delusion and Hard Truth as well, and how I related to her post. This is not exactly verbatim, as I was trying to listen whilst I made points.
The reason I posted this here and not in General is because you guys know me, and if I am full of s**t, I know you will tell me.My gut reaction to all this is "No.Thats not how it is." but then I will be doing what he is accusing me of doing, and I just dont know then. TIA.

All you ever do is talk about your pain and suffering. You forget about me and what my issues with you are/were. Just because I had an A, doesnt make you perfect.
When I bring up issues about you, you shift it. I am not happy either. No matter what I say or do, its all about your pain and suffering. You just dont accept my POV about our M and you.
You always have excuses to justify your behaviour (eg. pregancy, all alone), and at the end of the day, you should be able to recognise your faults irrespective of external factors. You dont accept that responsibility and you make it such that I am responsible for your bad behaviour.You dont want to be seen as bad. I am not happy with this. You have been doing this for a long time.And you keep repeating the same grievances (your pain and suffering, and his badness). You keep throwing my faults in my face, but I am not allowed to do the same. Everything you did badly is not my fault.It is not ok to carry on the way you do. I cant even talk to you because you get too emotional and start crying and carrying on.

Egs of H's issues with me.
1. I push him to say/do things when he is not ready to
2.I cover up for myself. I am unwilling to accept responsibility for doing something wrong. I blameshift and make it his fault
3. My focus on my pain only.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many people have read Steering Clear now? I read it over the weekend and I agree it is a FANTASTIC book. (I must admit far too religious for me, I'm afraid I'm a bit of a heathen but it has so much understanding in it.)

Would anybody be interested in having a discussion about it? One of the things I noticed was that I started reading with the intention of keeping H in mind to try and understand his motivations over the years, which I did, but also to my surprise I also started to read and think about myself and apply some of it to myself and my behaviour now. Especially the distorted thinking and the "entitlement" chapter.

I know given the beast that is LTA we deserve some understanding/remorse etc. But I wonder am I in danger of actually formulating a mindset of entitlement (which is what he has had in the past). Entitlement to him changing if he wants to be with me. Entitlement to my angry outbursts, to however miserable I want to be. I feel entitled to take however long I like to recover from this. But this book got me wondering, what if the only person I am actually hurting is myself in this, what if I could let go of the feeling of my entitlement? Maybe I could actually recover faster. I'm not talking about him, he can do whatever he likes, this is not for him, but is my entitlement stopping me moving forward. My own BS distorted thinking?

H and I had another long discussion on Saturday night and I told him I need him to stop waiting for me to recover. It is like he is stuck until I feel better. He said he doesn't feel he has any rights anymore because of how hurt I am and I just told him that that will end up with him resenting me again and we will just go down the same path as before.

I asked him to think about his needs and what he wants from this marriage and then to act on those and see how many I will go along with. Yes some I may not be able to cope with because I'm still too hurt and he will have to deal with my rejection, but then surely perhaps we can come to some compromise? One of his complaints was that I am not affectionate enough (not bedrrom, but just generally, kissing, stroking arms, hand holding stuff, particularly when he gets home from work and I am on SI ) and I said to him why didn't he just walk up to me and ask for it, because I wouldn't turn him away, why does it have to be me that does everything? He has a right to have the relationship he wants too. This is a new concept for him and I know its mulling over in his mind.

He spent the whole of Sunday asking for kisses and then ended up saying he felt closer to me last night. I don't feel I've changed but he feels I have. But I think what was really going on was that he changed the way he was thinking, he gave himself permission to ask me for what he wanted. Its early days but I think this may be some kind of minor breakthrough for us.

No doubt the old rollercoaster will be along any day but perhaps if I could have a few more ups that lasted for longer things would improve.

So sorry that so many are struggling (Run, NAS, HBH, Sham, FSA, Hefty, UK, Lost) sorry if I've missed anyone out, so much to read.

By the way, embryos transferred this morning, so now nature just has to take its course. Thank you so much once again for all your kind words of support.

Mum.


Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf,

Ahhh....what a thorough and cogent description of the "process." Your post should be in the Library here. It is that meaningful and applicable for LTA BS. (((fnf)))

Run, As you know, I second fnf's endorsement of the value of anger.
We do have to "feel" it, to heal it. And that reality of finally "feeling" it seems to grab hardest the 2nd year.

It is almost easier to stay closed up in despair, but it also means that you stay inert....closed off from living with any hope for personal joy again.

Sometimes anger is how you "throw up" and detox yourself from all the misery of this.

Hugs to all as we start another week in getting stronger..."head up, boobs out"......

[This message edited by numb and scared at 8:43 AM, February 18th (Monday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostHeart - I read your post and the only 2x4's are for your H. Your post made me think of one I read a few days ago by Potion to Shammarriage so I copied here. I would love to find out more about this concept because it is something I have been trying to work on in MC'ing with my H. I want him to rewrite everything negative he ever told himself about me, our M, and our family life. Let me know if you think this is what your H is still trying to do.
(((LostH)))
It's called 'cognitive distortion.'
It's what a WS must do to justify an affair. What's included:
*rewritting your marrital history to focus on and magnify anything negative AND
delete all the good times AND just make up bad stuff to fill in as needed...whatever it takes to paint your entire relationship as a big mistake
*distort the BS: focus on and magnify all faults; ignore all the good qualities; overall paint BS in a very bad light and as a big dissappointment in every way; and make up bad stuff to fill in as needed
*distort the OP: paint them as flawless, a perfect match, a soulmate, full of wisdom, etc, etc
*distort their home/family life: falsely paint even their relationship with the kids as negative
The cognitive distortions become REAL to WS in an affair, enabling them to easily detach from their failure of a wife, dissappointing children, and horrible, miserable home life.
Essentially, they lie to themselves and OP.

NAS - thank you for your post. This has been my experience and if it helps anyone then I am glad to have shared it.
(((NAS)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mum - may the powers of the tribe be with your sister and those precious embryoes. This is the most beautiful thing I've read on SI. A miracle in the making!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
JoePike
♂ Member
Member # 13207
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope this week will be a better week for everyone.

Presidents Day 2004: We were actively planning our wedding, which was set for less than 4 months later. After the expected, but still painful (and something I handles badly) redundancy my fiancee went through at the end of 2003, we were both very happy about the possibility of a job for her with a new Boston based company. She had the interview planned for the tuesday after Presidents Day, but asked me if she could fly out earlier, so she'd have some time to acclimatise and do some shopping. Of course I said yes.

So she did fly out on the Sunday, went what I presume shopping relatively frantically, considering the gifts she brought home to me, and then met up with a former male colleague that she had been chatting with online for the previous 6 months.

She claims nothing happened, but of course she didn't mention a word of her walking around Boston, spending almost the entire day with him, including having lunch, drinks and dinner with him. Until d-day I had never heard his name.

Two days later, when she returned to Europe, he emailed her and said he felt more than just friendship for her. Instead of correcting him, she continue chatting with him, turned what we now know as a deep EA into a PA on her next trip in April and spent almost a week with him, but still got married to me in early June.

Sadly she never said anything, and continued with him for the next 2 years.

It was the beginning of the end for us. Valentines Day and Presidents day - suddenly February, one of my favourite months previously suck massively.

[This message edited by JoePike at 9:09 AM, February 18th (Monday)]


"Do or do not. There is no Try" - Yoda.

"The term “mistake” infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper


Posts: 3952 | Registered: Jan 2007
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your support. Again.

We have to be careful not to let anger become our new way of life.

fnf, this is what I'm afraid of. Especially if I stay. Will I be able to be who I want to be when I'm this mad?

Your words were very reassuring. Thank you for "knowing".

Still mad. And reading UU's post didn't really help. Or maybe it did. I don't know. I think she's dead on though. Don't know if any of you read through it, but basically it's that she's lived her life thinking if she could only "help" him enough, "show" him enough, "tell" him enough--he'll get it and change and be the husband she wants. When in fact, if he wanted to change or do the things she was asking or telling him she needed--he would. It really is as simple as that. And the part of me that believes <<<in deep pronounced voice>>> "I have the power" is an illusion (or delusion, as the case may be). The hard truth is that he's a grown man who makes his own decisions and he is deciding to be the same. Yes, I know--he's "broken". Well, so was I. I wanted to be different. I made the changes I needed to. Not overnight--but there was some progress you could see.

I can't control him. And I'm just weak. He says he was "weak" and couldn't get out--he was the strong one. He made a move.

Lost, while I believe that there are DEFINATELY things we have to acknowledge...your H continues to go about things the wrong way. He's filled with anger. He attacks you and always seems resentful that you are still hurting and healing. YES! It is about you and your healing. But he doesn't get to stop working on himself because "your the problem" now. HE is the one using your pain as an excuse. He needs to find a way to work through his anger and he's not moving either.

H and I had another long discussion on Saturday night and I told him I need him to stop waiting for me to recover. It is like he is stuck until I feel better. He said he doesn't feel he has any rights anymore because of how hurt I am and I just told him that that will end up with him resenting me again and we will just go down the same path as before.

Exactly, mum. They do need to support us in our pain and healing. But they need to MOVE. They have their own work to do too. Otherwise it's a cycle. And we're back in the hole because there is no forward progress with them. And they don't proceed because we're still in the hole.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok Lost, so apart from the fact that as usual your H is showing all his completely inadequate skills in communicating with a wife who he has hurt terribly and who is trying to deal with many of her own issues, do YOU think he has any points worth thinking about? Do you justify?, do you shift conversations when they turn to you, can you listen to his pov to see if it has any validity?

I know that you feel all bad, deep inside from childhood and that you are fighting now to feel that you have a valuable and rightful place in this world, which you most definately do, and I just wonder whether or not that means you are naturally defensive of your position especially concerning your extremely F'd up H. Its just a question, but it comes from my thinking about entitlement over the weekend and I am wondering whether it is a very fine line between actually being justified and just thinking we are.

This is not a 2 x 4 for you, because this is not about whether you are bad or not. You are great but great people also can look at themselves and say "yes, I admit maybe I could look at that and not take it personally."

I guess the only trouble with your h is that typically when he talks about an area which perhaps you could look at, he doesn't discuss it with you in a way that would encourage improvement on your part, his aim on the surface seems to be to destroy you through his words. If he continues to lash out at you as he has been doing how are you ever going to be able to deal with the issues that he has about your marriage? The only way for anybody to be able to truly look at themselves and recognise the bits they might work on is if they don't feel like they have to fight to the end to defend themselves. Maybe I'm way off base I don't know. But you can be sure I'm more than impressed by the progress you have made in the time I've known you and whatever happens in the future I KNOW that you will make it through this, stronger, wiser and maybe more whole than you've ever felt! ((Lost))


Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH,
I echo FNF, he needs the 2x4's and your gut is right on ( hasn't it always been, deep down ?) He knows he was never the person you are, your compassion and empathy, your capacity for love shines right through every post ( i've seen it way across the pond ) and no doubt shone brightest on him (cept for your babies of course) I wonder what he sees when he has to look at himself under that light? Whatever it is i don't think he likes it so much.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, February 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By the way Lost, has your H ever talked to you about just WHY he is so resentful and angry towards you? It can't just be because you're angry with him? I agree with Run unless he addresses why he is so angry he is going to find it very hard to make any progress.

I wish I could come in there and just knock him upside the head and then just put you in a huge chair filled with fluffy feathers and leave you there to rest and recuperate for as long as you need with your feet up (visualise your H running around in a frilly pinny and a feather duster, answering to your every beck and call too..... )


Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
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