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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -IX
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 5:19 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes Lost, of course you are right, it is his fault that you now have to deal with his shit, but that's not all you're dealing with is it? and (I'll say it in a whisper because I don't want you to shout at me) he isn't responsible for all of your life is he? But the trouble is that if you want to hold on to the blame then where are you going to end up? In the end, for your M to work (if you want it to) then you will need to let all this blame go (in fact for your life to work). Not excusing him or FOO for it or forgetting it (or even forgiving it necessarily), but allowing you to move on from it. For YOU.

I hate this reality too because recovery is all about me, why should I be the one who has to sort this out - WHY? (imagine little girl stamping feet which is what I feel like at the moment) and why does the aftermath of his affair mean I have to sort out all my previous issues? They were very nicely packed away thank you very much!

But then our M is what we are working towards isn't it? We may not feel like it, we may think WTF am I doing, but I believe we're really there because deep inside we know we want to be, otherwise we would cut our losses and leave (just as he would). I think you are choosing to be there Lost because you are strong and have been on your own before and could do it again.

My IC has said to me that understandably I feel like a victim at the moment and where I am aiming is to the survivor. I can see this, you don't mess with a survivor, a survivor is strong and that is what we already are really we just need to bring our brains along with us.

In the meantime we have to keep scraping the shit off, one spoon at a time until we are relatively clean again and then perhaps we will be able to have that final shower that cleanses us completely leaving us able to see all the scars clearly but able to walk out of the shower with a spring in our step.



Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 6:35 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great points, M!

Well, another interesting thing that has emerged from the new disclosures is that WS says at first he just badly wanted to keep it a FWB type thing but when she asked for a "loan" to pay her rent & then again the next month & the next, he realized it was getting out of hand. Not enough to end it outright (altho he asked me to move out there with him then, typical PA / conflict avoider move to make it harder for them to see each other as they had been). At first he enjoyed the "disconnect" with her, the lack of real emotional involvement but he claims that ultimately that is what helped him lose the thrill because doing things with her he missed our connection. He said he finally realized that unless he was with me, he wouldn't ever get those special feelings & enjoyment we had being together doing stuff.

Still, the affair drizzled on but since he had moved way too far from her to have any physical contact, it was limited to calls & emails, peppered with his sending her money (which he says she asked for frequently & when he'd refused, told him she would ask me meaning outing their fun, I wish she had forced a DDay).

I'm not sure what to believe anymore, but he remembers being the one to bring up getting married & was very happy to do so cuz he knew we were "right" for each other. It would have been nice if he had acted more that way...


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jumping in to say I forgot to say "bye" for a week. We are skiing and I am trying to keep up but you guys have posted 10 friggin pages since Friday night!!!! I am off soon for the day. I will try to keep reading just to keep up with everyone's sitch but may not post much.

Good luck today Weepy! I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Don't have time to take the M-B test but when I did it in the corporate world I was a ENFJ.

And quickly as far as the anger/lack of emotions due to FOO. My Hs therapist has nailed this one for him - maybe it is the same for yours? He had so much abuse/neglect during his early childhood/adolesence that ALL emotions became anger. His is afraid to feel anything except anger AND he was taking all that anger that built up on him out on me. That is the cylce that he had learned - "hurt the ones you love".

I will be back later hopefully in one piece after skiing with the kids....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK adn Lost Heart, looks like I'm in good company! I'm also IFSJ. Seems right on to me. I need to google to get more info. Think I'll have wh take this test later. Very iteresting.

Read everything, so much ot think about.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Heartbreaker37
♀ Member
Member # 14013
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I may not know how this forum works exactly - haven't looked here before and I don't see anywhere to start a new thread. It appears all threads are started by the Mods, but I have something I want to say so will jump right into it. Excuse me please if I'm off track.

Last night while fixing dinner together I said "I have something I want to discuss with you." Got to give him credit - no heavy sigh, no shrugging of the shoulders, or eyebrow lifting.

We sat down to dinner and he says "go ahead - let me have it:)" I said that's not what I want. I need to understand something and we've discussed it before but something occurred to me today that I need to find out about."

Little history - we've been married a very long time; he had a LTA without my knowledge till DD and my world spun out of control. Separated for six weeks, I filed for divorce, but called it off when we reconciled at the end of the six weeks (whirlwind six weeks you might think).

Anyway, I repeated my understanding of how the affair started - he was in a local Golf shop and she supposedly asked one of the clerks if they had anyone who gave lessons. My husband is/was a very good golfer and somehow he ended up giving her lessons, which led to the affair. It goes on and on.

The thought that got going in my head yesterday was this - "Hold on, every other time he gave any lessons that I knew about was because he told me about them and it was always a man. He never ever mentioned some woman wanting a lesson." I said as much to him - I said has it occured to you why you didn't just happen to mention this to me?
Were you out looking for something or had it in the back of your mind you might cross over the line into a relationship with someone and that's why you didn't tell me?"

He said probably...anyway the discussion helped me a lot because he listened, commented where and when appropriate, yada, yada, yada.

Later, we went to the store and one little thing started coming out of my mouth as in "I can take my share of the blame..." and he jumps right in and says "you are right honey - we were all to blame - me, you and Carol."

I said "hold on buddy, I meant to say I can and do take my share of the blame for the failure in our relationship, but I will not take the blame for you deciding to cross the line and have an affair instead of us actively communicating to each other our unhappiness within our marriage." He said "you're right.It was my decision and it was wrong."

We had said a lot more but those were the key things and the conversation was what I needed. Course I am the talker and rehasher and he is the one that's once something is done - it should not be spoken of or even thought about and he's always been that way - all of our lives together so getting to really discuss something (not as in beating him up verbally over and over)takes a little work on my part and this time it all came out just like it should have.

Have a great day all!


Posts: 64 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Midwest
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i'm in good company too. I'm INFJ


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mum, I know you are right. I feel like right prat for the way I carry on here soemtimes (and IRL too. )

Everything you said (and everybody else too)makes sense, and I know thats what I should do, and am trying to do,you know.
Just sometimes, the awfulness, the enormity, the whole f**kupness of all of this creeps on me, and I feel thoroughly hopeless and helpless. But some swift words from the Tribe or IC (I just cant tolerate it from anyone else!),and I pack it in, resolve myself to beating this, and get my chin out (if I had boobs I would do that too )and plug on.

Dont whisper Mum. No yelling today.

****
Welcome Heartbreaker
When was your dday?
Its good that your H is able to listen to you.
I am going to be blunt here, and please excuse me if I am getting it wrong. Something is unsettling me.
He agreed with you on both occassions even though both were very different view points? I dont know if I am getting this out right.
Do you really think that thats what he believes, or is he just agreeing with you to not upset you? Its just sounds too pat the way he did that?
Or is this just me and my extreme cynicism when it comes to WS and OW?

Anyhow, please keep posting Heart.About what we are generally tlking about, or whats going on with you, or anything you want. We do healthy living, gym tips, recipes, career counselling, child rearing, personal development, or yeh, and coping/surviving the aftermath of our spouses LTA.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Resell the books on half.com. At least the ones you don't want to re-read or use for reference.

Run, selling the books is an excellent idea! You could even do it on SI.

One thing I guess I haven't told you guys about is how often I refer to my books. I suppose there are a couple I could part with, but for the most part--they are books referred by wise ones and I neeeeeeeed then (whiney voice).

But it is a good idea for later (maybe). I tend to get attached to books.

Okay- how do you stay in the "now", when the behavior patterns are close to the same as during the A? I have/had a psychopathtic/sociopathic/i don't know what-pathic WH who never, ever wasn't there while in the midst of his A. He NEVER quit showing or expressing love. He NEVER was absent, except while working. He NEVER made myself or our kids feel anything other than a priority. He was a GREAT husband- he just had his worktime lunch tart at the same time.

How do you EVER feel safe in believing what you see?

Unable, I wish I knew. I had/have one of these too. I didn't ever know. But what I do know is that he was definately HERE showing all the traits of a good husband, but he was doing it without connecting, so he wasn't really HERE. That's the case though, even before the affair, and I just learned to accept it.

There was a short time during the affair that he was completely unreachable and detached. (I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that might have been when she got pg--but of course, I can't be sure--he doesn't "remember". ) I told him I couldn't handle it and he should see a counselor. Wuuuuulllll, he did. And then WE did. Faked his way right out of that. I was still never the wiser for two more years--and neither was the counselor.

Is your H this way? His ability to compartmentalize so well would lead me to believe he's not "there" emotionally--INSIDE. But he's good at playing the part.

Best he can tell me about why he resents me so much is:
*my holier than thou attitude throughout the M
* My obsession with having everything perfect
* My obsession with what others think of me
*the fact that he could never say anything negative to me because I would get so hurt and crushed
* the fact that I just didnt let up on him, always pushing and prodding

Ugh, Lost. He just seems so filled with anger that he's not gonna let go.

Has he read "The Four Agreements"? It's a VERY easy read and if he truly takes it to heart, it could help him. As long as he's holding onto to this, he's not moving.

I am going to be blunt here, and please excuse me if I am getting it wrong. Something is unsettling me.
He agreed with you on both occassions even though both were very different view points? I dont know if I am getting this out right.
Do you really think that thats what he believes, or is he just agreeing with you to not upset you? Its just sounds too pat the way he did that?

Lost, I thought the same thing.

Heartbreaker, is your H being "real"? He needs to feel safe enough to tell the truth. It sounded off to me as well.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so lost here. I don't know where to begin... so I'll start with a question...

Which of us was having the EMG done????? I wanted to ask how it went. I know they are very painful, but since I'm also having back problems, I was hoping to find out what it discovered for her. I feel like I've been very selfish lately and I think this afternoon I'm going to try and catch up on everyone and concentrate!!!!

mum, I don't think I even sent my good wishes for you and your sis.

And now I have to sign off to get ready to go for the eye procedure. H finally offered to stay home and take me but I blew him off instead opting for the support from my tribe. No, really, he was very sweet about it, but he's missed too much work lately.

The surgery is schedule for 1:30 PM est. I will be visualizing all of you out in the waiting room sending me positive vibes.

The thought that got going in my head yesterday was this - "Hold on, every other time he gave any lessons that I knew about was because he told me about them and it was always a man. He never ever mentioned some woman wanting a lesson." I said as much to him - I said has it occured to you why you didn't just happen to mention this to me?
Were you out looking for something or had it in the back of your mind you might cross over the line into a relationship with someone and that's why you didn't tell me?"

Welcome Heartbreaker. I read this and had a shudder of the familiar. H always discussed his jobs with me, but never mentioned he was doing this particular work for this particular person. And even went so far as to delete her phone message from the log so I wouldn't question about the invoicing (I was his bookkeeper).

I pointed this out to him... that he hid it from the moment contact was made even though at that point it was supposedly just work.

To me, like you, that says "I'm looking" or at least "I"m not turning down the possibility if it happens." He finally told me he'd known her back in high school and had had a crush on her, but since she was older than him, it never went anywhere. Plus she was apparently the "easy" type then too.

So when the call came, his first thought was "I wonder..." therefore, keep it from Weepy. If it panned out, great, if it didn't, he wasn't losing out on anything since he was already having ONS on a pretty regular basis.

Unfortunately for you and all of us, these women were willing to "work" within the parameters, were willing to settle for a part time, secret relationship.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Weepy, sorry you're having a hard time, but I hope I'm not too late to wish you luck with your eye procedure this afternoon.

Lost I know you know all this already, and you're doing such a great job. Don't let the blighters grind you down! One spoonful at a time!

Uni I'll post on your book thread when you've found your copy of Steering Clear, I really thought it was a great read. Very insightful about how we as humans think (or not think as the case may be)

Welcome Heartbreaker, sorry you have to be here. The first post is always the hardest .

Do you know we should look at all our MBTI results and see if it shows any commonality. I wonder what that would show. I seem to be in the minority at the moment. My mum always said if it could be done differently then I would do it that way, even if I cut off my nose to spite my face. never could take advice. Good job that's changed.



Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good luck Weepy !!!! Better be a biig waiting room.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Which of us was having the EMG done?????

No, not me Weepy.
Fnf? Was it you?

Anyhow, we will be there with you, wearing red bows and our Tribal necklaces over our scrubs, and of course, EVERYBODY will be having a GREAT hair day!

***

how do you stay in the "now", when the behavior patterns are close to the same as during the A?

Gee, I actually found something positive. My H is waayyyyy different in many ways from how he was before ddays. When I say our kiddos have a F for the first time, I really mean that. He was their big brother before.As much as he is a jackass and I am such a sweetiepie ( ), we are actually closer now than we have ever been. So if this H came up to me during M before, I would have been in heaven.

Unfort some of his old negative traits and some new ugly ones are with us too.

So coming back to UTC's issue, I dont know. My experience is very different. If you look closely though, can you see/feel a difference? More connection? More inthenow moments instead of lost in his head?
This is tough.

***
SoL, on behalf of Uk and me, hiya!
Let me know how you got your H to take the test. Mine is not to keen on having me run loose in his purty head!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's been a lot of talk on here lately about some of our H's "blameshifting" and about us, the BS, looking honestly at ourselves and accepting responsibility for our part in the breakdown of our M. Now, let me say upfront, I am always ultra-sensitive to these discussions because no matter what my shortcomings are, or any of our flaws or less-than-perfect personality traits are, none of us, let me repeat, NONE OF US should ever let our FWS's convince us that we were in any way, shape or form responsible even in the slightest way for their decision to engage in a LTA.
Every time I hear how the WS attempts to put the BS on the defensive during this difficult process of R I feel my Irish temper start to boil. It has been said by many of us on this forum, and I will say it yet again, that there was nothing that any of us could have ever done to justify our S's living the duplicitous, deceitful lives that they led for years. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING. As my wonderful MC once said to my H as he tried to shift blame for his LTA onto me, IT WAS 8 FUCKING YEARS, MR. FNF, 8 FUCKING YEARS! God, I love this guy!
Anyway, the real reason I wanted to post today is because I think these discussions have finally gotten something through to me that I have been trying to communicate in our recent MC'ing sessions but somehow couldn't find the words to express what it is I feel we need to do before we can move on. Let me preface this by saying that our MC has suggested that every M re-defines itself over a period of years and most especially after a revelation of infidelity. So, wanting to establish this new, hopefully improved M, we are attempting to work on issues that were problematic in our "old" M.
During the first session that we attempted to do this, my H started with "I never felt you were carrying your load."
Now to me this is exactly what is meant by "cognitive distortion." It contributed to his ability to justify in his own mind his LTA. I won't bore you with the details of how I not only carried my load, but I was carrying his as well because I KNOW that each of you KNOW exactly what I would say because we have all carried double loads during their LTA's.
The point I am making is that in order for all of us to make a better M for ourselves we need to work in C'ing to determine which issues belong in the "cognitive distortion" column and which belong in the "problematic marital issue" column and once we can get our S's to identify or acknowledge the difference between these 2 very unique columns then possibly we can begin some very challenging and productive work.
Before all of this weeks' posts I couldn't grasp what it was that I was trying to do. I want to thank all of you for helping me to see this so much more clearly. I would love to hear if any of you have done work similar to this and maybe, if anyone would be motivated to do this, possibly start a list of your own. I am going to work on this for tomorrow's session and you can be sure I'll share some of the insights I'm hoping to get out of this session.
Wish me luck!
Hugs to all!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He does know HBH. As long as there is contact, the A is still going on. Dont make excuses for him. He wants to be the good guy all around...and at whose and what expense. He can only have 1 relationship. He can only make 1 woman happy. How freeking arrogant for him to believe that he can be the good guy to both of you!

LostH - I have told him this same thing, almost the exact words. Probably not so nicely at the time though.

Sorry, I have not been able to read everything, just skimming it. Also can't quote everyone, but wanted to make one thing clear.

I don't trust or believe anyone right now but me. I want to believe OW and WS will end contact, but I am certainly not that naive BS I was a year ago.

I am trying to take the advice you all gave and take care of me. Decide what I want, need, will only accept, and go forward.

I do not accept any contact between them and have made that very clear to H. I still feel that I am done worrying about OW and what she is doing. Doesn't mean I trust her either. Just means even if she lied to me and does contact him again, I don't care. What I care about is what his response is. He knows about the email to her and read that and her response to me. He also knows I have been watching his email acct. I will continue to keep my eyes and ears open, I have not let down my guard. If anything, it is higher than it ever was.

The one thing that did surprise me is the anger I felt versus the fear and hurt on first DDay. I told him I stayed with the M DDay #1 because I wanted to know I did everything I could to make this M work. I did not want to look back and have what ifs in my mind. I have done that. If we D now, I know I did not do this and do not share responsibility for this. This is his weakness and he must decide how to deal with his feelings of guilt or whatever else on his own or with me. Not with her. I know I am stronger than I thought I was, and I can and will go on without him if I need to. But I am through having a part-time husband!

Right now it is one day at a time, I cannot make any decisions right now. I am still angry, hurt, numb, and too damn tired.

[This message edited by hurtbuthappy at 10:46 AM, February 19th (Tuesday)]


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost - no it wasn't me. I don't remember reading about this at all.
Weepy - good luck today. We're with you! Don't forget to check in when you can.
As much as he is a jackass and I am such a sweetiepie


Good one, Lost! That's what I love about our little group. Good strong sense of self.
BTW, I did the test and I'm an ESFJ. One thing that I read in the description that describes me to a tee is this:
Their sense of right and wrong wrestles with an overwhelming rescuing, mothering drive. This sometimes results in swift, immediate action taken upon a transgressor, followed by stern reprimand; ultimately, however, the prodigal is wrested from the gallows of their folly, just as the nooose tightens and all hope is lost, by the very executioner!
This actually made me chuckle considering my current situation. I think my H would easily agree to this description.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone.

And fnf, I will be VERY interested in hearing about your session because that's the issue keeping us stuck too.

Only my H opened that discussion with "She was never letting me participate in our M." WTF??? Our MC, to her credit on THAT day, asked him if he ever offered to participate? Was he available when I asked for help?

The point I am making is that in order for all of us to make a better M for ourselves we need to work in C'ing to determine which issues belong in the "cognitive distortion" column and which belong in the "problematic marital issue" column and once we can get our S's to identify or acknowledge the difference between these 2 very unique columns then possibly we can begin some very challenging and productive work.

And exactly how do you do that with someone who lives in his how mind so much that the rest of the world means little to him?

In the session where those questions were asked... his answers were "Yes, I told her I wanted to be involved and I was available." In reality, he TOLD me what to do, but because I didn't, I was not letting him have any say. And he was available, except when he was working, sleeping, playing video games, hanging with his friends, doing work for his FOO or screwing around. His priorities ALWAYS came first.

Two issues came up this weekend. One involving a house we didn't buy and one involving our D's college selection.

Here's the truth.... We looked at this house. I didn't like it. The front porch was like 10' from a majorly busy street. The school district did not have a contract with the vision support group helping our kids. The high school had been rated as like 5th or 6th in the county. Yes, there were pluses... it had a 3 car garage and the taxes were low. H still talks about how I didn't let him buy the house HE wanted (because of the garage). In going through the paperwork in our back room, I found the listing for that property. On it was written "On May 19, 1999, Weepy agreed to buy this property". I didn't remember writing that, but there it was in black and white. H says I altered the paperwork that day. And he will believe nothing else.

We talked about this in front of my brother and SIL on Saturday. They seemed to think my reason for NOT buying the house were valid. Especially the part where our kids would not get the support they needed. (But H was in denial at this stage that there WAS anything wrong with the kids).

Re: our D's college choice. He wanted her to go to the State university. One problem.... she wasn't accepted. Her grades and SAT scores weren't good enough to get in. She basically had a choice between 2 small private colleges or one that would take her, but didn't offer her major.

Still to this day when problems arise about her college education, he refers back to the fact that he didn't want her to go there... that it was MY decision to keep her out of the State college. I did push her toward the one she went to, but left the final decision up to her. She CHOSE it because it offered field work in her sophomore year over the other one which was not co-ed. Her choice. I would have backed her on either decision.

Now are these two subjects that can be changed to reality?

H never wants to discuss the past, but if we can't agree on what has already happened, then how do we find a common reality now?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
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Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Right now it is one day at a time, I cannot make any decisions right now. I am still angry, hurt, numb, and too damn tired

((((((HBH)))))))

Rest up HBH, or like my IC is fond of saying, "nurture yourself". Cut yourself some slack from the real world, and just rest your body, your mind and your soul.

***

The point I am making is that in order for all of us to make a better M for ourselves we need to work in C'ing to determine which issues belong in the "cognitive distortion" column and which belong in the "problematic marital issue" column and once we can get our S's to identify or acknowledge the difference between these 2 very unique columns then possibly we can begin some very challenging and productive work.

But FNF, how do you get to agree on what was distortion and what was real?

H and I see our past differently for eg. I will relate this one very painful instance. I fell pg with youngest DD when oldest DD was 9 months old. Surprise!
I so wanted to bfeed her for as long as I could, but given my histroy of preterm labour, I was adviced to stop bfeeding asap. This was so heartsore for me,esp as she wasnt too keen on giving up. It was quite a struggle and I gave in many times, as she refused to take formula from me and starting losing weight so fast. I was frantic. I tried many times to get H to help by feeding her but you know.
So one morning she is crying for milk. I started cramping and yelled for H who had fallen asleep in the next room. He kept saying he will come but didnt. DD grew more hysterical and so was I, too scared to move. He still didnt come. Finally I picked up DD, went to the room, and practically threw her into his arms.He was sitting up in bed and she was safe. He got angry and yelled at me and tried to push her back in my arms, which I resisted. God when i think of that time,
My poor baby.

I just couldnt take her crying and my cramping and my leaking breasts,so I turned around to walk away and then he punched me in my back. I was so shocked I scurried out and slid down a few stairs.

His version. He was asleep. He can hear me yelling (one of his gripes was that I was forever on his case about oversleeping or helping with the kids. Since he worked during the week, he didnt see the need to make any other contributions to the familylife, but I was too bossy and kept trying to drag him in...yes he has said this) but he was asleep and was trying to wake up. Next thing he knows is that DD is with him, she and I are both hysterical, he is still half asleep and I am yelling at him. He tried to give DD back becasue she was crying for me and I threw her back to him. So he was angry that I did that and just pushed me slightly.doesnt remember making a fist.

Same story line.Diff versions.
One truth though: the damage I did to DD during that time. What that poor child had to witness at that age. Forget H, I should have known better.

Anyway, FNF, how the heck would we agree on what was distortion or real. Ditto weepy.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how the heck would we agree on what was distortion or real. Ditto weepy
Lost & Weepy - I wish I had that answer but I am hoping that our MC can help us to do this. I am going to bring this topic up tomorrow morning and I was planning on asking him if he felt this should be done in separate, IC'ing sessions with us coming together after our private sessions. I tend to react very strongly - like the instance where my H said I wasn't carrying my load. (I had to seriously fight the urge not to jump out of my seat and smack him upside the head. )
That's why I think if I have him work with our C on his own to start to put some of the issues into their appropriate columns, (I have a lot of faith in our MC) he might be more willing to do that if he doesn't sense my seething temper waiting for the right moment to pounce.
Obviously, when I work on my own issues, my temper will be in the "problematic M issue" column.
I know this is going to be tough to work on for both of us but I do believe it is the right course for us at this time. Believe me, if I get any insights from this session I will rush home and post them.
In the meantime, if others on here have any advice, we're all ears!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geez, cupid seems to have done a number on quite a few of us this past week. Hugs to all of you. H, recognizing my sadness, started what turned out to be a very productive conversation, and in turn, we were able to have a very nice weekend.

Weepy, hope all is going well with the procedure.

Heartbreaker37, welcome to the club. "me, you and Carol", that trio sounds all too familiar.

fnf, another wow post a few pages back articulating the LTA BS experience to a tee. Regarding the "cognitive distortion", to my H's credit, he has recognized and admitted what he had been distorting and misinterpreting during that period of time to rationalize/justify the A. There maybe hope here yet.


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, February 19th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regarding the "cognitive distortion", to my H's credit, he has recognized and admitted what he had been distorting and misinterpreting during that period of time to rationalize/justify the A. There maybe hope here yet.

Steelergal - That is so good to hear. I don't know what to expect once we start this but it's good to hear it can happen. Why do you think your H was capable of this? Did you do this in MC'ing or in private or both? I do believe that a good C can be the key to getting our S's to acknowledge their distorted way of thinking. I'm keeping a positive attitude for tomorrow. Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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