Some are struggling. I wish you well and better days ahead.
Things have been somewhat a mess in the Hefty household. More lies from WS that culminated in Monday. broken NC's, skipping work etc. I basically said let's go forward and quit these games or we are done. Made this as clear as I could to my wife.
I am letting that BS from this week go and will do what I can to move forward and not dwell on it.
It has been 4 mos of both good and bad momments. Needs to start becoming more good than bad. The cycle of good than bad is what really is killing me. It is consistent actions that will move us forward. Not be nice to me and than do something deceitful.
Despite her being the one taht caused all of this she is going through a lot I have realized as well. I have learned that people say is is better to be a BS than a WS. They have to live with what they did. I am here for my wife to lean on.
Turn to me and I will turn to you and weather the storm together. That is what R really is. Be their for each other and truly love one another. We are in the middle of a hurricane. Hold on tight together and we can make it.
I am not going to stop the good moments and want us to build some new good memmories and hopefully this is the start of our new life together.
Their are some good things going on that I hope are a start. We are taking DD to see Elmo this weekend and my wife is planning DD 3rd B-day party. These are positives steps by my wife IMHO. Planning stuff for us as a family.
I feel stronger than I have in a long time. Do not mistake me in that deep down I am very sad and angry but if I let that rule me I will have no joy in my life and will not be the husband and father I need to be.
I am ready for the future whatever that may be. Still in my heart I want us to be together as I love my wife and our family dearly.
I wish you all strength.
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 6:54 AM, February 27th (Wednesday)]
hefty, that you W is planning and actually carrying out those plans for the family is a good sign. Actions speaking louder than words.
I know I have the same issues as many and especially you. the W does not want to talk about what they're going through, but actually change.
I can pinpoint almost the exact moment my H came out of his post affair "fog". (I still didn't know at that point). And I can see from that point on almost 18 months of involvement, caring, 180 degree turnaround from who he had been for the previous 10 years. THAT is what initially kept me in this M post dday. Let her take the lead. It is true that the least involved/invested S is the one most likely to have the A... they have the time first of all because we're in there taking "care" of everything. If this is the "work" she can do at this point, take it, let her. Sit back and observe.
My ICs have both said that my H is a doer and not a thinker. I am a verbal person and I look for him to expound on his love, his life, his needs. But what he does is how he communicates.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Happy belated birthday, Uni.
marigold, I remember your story. It sucked back then, and it still sucks now. I can't imagine having OW in my life permanently--OR having members of my family be kind to her when she literally destroyed me. I'd be angry too. Problem is, you're going to have to find a way to deal with that anger--one way or anothe--because it's not going to do you any good, and she's obviously not going to go away. Remember to take care of you--whatever that entails. You are the only one you can count on and the only one who is going to pull you through this.
Incidently, does she really love BIL or did she do this to be close to your H? It just seems awfully manipulative.
I know we've learned that we can't ever say what we'd do, but I really don't know how I could handle your situation. And I'm not so sure it's menopause. I just think there's GOT to be soooooo much anger there that you've tried to bury because you feel you have to (since she's a member of your family now. )
Are you in IC?
How often are you put in a place where you have to see each other? Yuck! I can't even imagine.
Shirley...just keep riding the riding the ride. Give it some time. 2-5 years. (F**k. )
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Fortunately, OW and BIL now live 2000 miles away. I have hardly seen her since d-day. I don't think she married him to be close H, OTOH it does keep him from ever getting away completely. I think she saw BIL as the next best thing when she finally figured out that FWH wouldn't leave me.
My FIL was here lately though. He is the other one ( my MIL was a MOW and married her AP). He does not know about the A, so was showing me pictures and I had to pretend to be happy to see them. Also this FIL is very frail, sooner or later there will be a funeral. I will have to see OW and the sister who knows nothing will be there so I will have to act. I know, I know, I think about my FIL dying and worry about MYSELF.
I know, I know, I think about my FIL dying and worry about MYSELF.
Oh my gosh--I would be too! The acting is exhausting. It just takes such a tole on you. It's a big reason I don't go out very often.
How don't the other family members to know? The FIL I can understand if he's frail, but how was it kept from the others?
I don't think she married him to be close H, OTOH it does keep him from ever getting away completely. I think she saw BIL as the next best thing when she finally figured out that FWH wouldn't leave me.
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Not only that, but it smacks of, "Oh yeah? You won't leave for me? Watch this!" The "I'll show you" kind of thing--the last "word".
She must be something else. Putting herself in the face of the BS forever on purpose--knowing it has to cause more pain? What a peach.
Just more entitlement. "I want what I want and I don't care what it does to other people."
Marigold, you are one tough chick!
Like Run said, the acting must be so freekin difficult.
I would also be thinking of future events where she would be. How the heck can you not???
You have shown incredible restraint. I would have shouted from the rooftops if OW even came close to marrying a friend of a friend of a friend of a neighbour's third cousin!
But to your BIL.
Did your BIL know? It must be quite challenging for all of you esp you at gettogethers.
Vent away Marigold, or whatever you want to here. I am so sorry.
but it smacks of, "Oh yeah? You won't leave for me? Watch this!" The "I'll show you" kind of thing--the last "word".
I agree with Run. Geez, how could this skank even look at herself in the mirror. And, I do have to wonder about the emotional maturity/stability of the BIL to get involved with the knowledge he had. Was she a "family piece of ass" before?
I don't know much about the family dynamics but why doesn't the sister know. Sorry, but I would blow this wide open. I can see you trying to protect the frail FIL. But why is the OW being protected from full disclosure to those in the family who don't know?
My H got that attitude for a very short while... "hey, at least I didn't leave you, even though I thought about it."
Yeah, like he's going to leave ME for a drug peddling, gin soaked whacko who lives in a rental property in some ghetto and "supports" herself off welfare and scrubbing toilets when the drug business is off or she's sweating out her next court appearance.
If she married your BIL out of spite then he will suffer. And more than likely she'll leave him in the end. Just because she's "radiant" now doesn't mean she's not going to wake up someday and wonder what she was thinking! (or wasn't).
I never outed my H to his parents either... they're way up in their 80's and even though it would give me great pleasure to rub my MIL's nose in her son's "activities", out of respect for my FIL, I don't.
Look, I'm 2/ 1/2 years out from this and still find myself wanting to strangle my H pretty regularly.
Glad you found us over here.
Thanks so much for your support. Still feel awful today. H left on trip with scarcely a word.
MIL and Step-FIL do know. I have not wanted other family members to know because the more people that know the greater the chance of my children finding out. One in particular, I know would be devastated. A lot of people on these boards disagree with me, but so far that's what I have felt to be best. We'll see if I can manage to continue. MIL specifically does not want her daughter to know, I think because it might damage her relationship with both of the brothers. But it's really my call.
Though they are approaching middle age, both OW and BIL are quite child like. They are smart technically but timid and immature socially and tend to make people feel protective of them. I was always very fond of BIL, felt like he was my little brother. Sigh. But I think that immaturity is what somehow let both of them think this would be ok. Frankly, I think they are well suited to each other and will probably be happy. At no little cost to me.
Sorry, but who the hell is she to tell you what to do or how to handle your life?
How old are your kids... mine were 17 and 20 at Dday. the 20 year old was off at college but the our 17 yo son witnessed everything. He was terribly hurt and angry for a very long time at his father, but he's starting to see him as a real person now, one who makes mistakes, he's no longer super-dad who put all these pressures on him to succeed. He can actually say "yeah dad, like you know best". It's a more mature relationship.
And he was wonderful with me. I tried not to lean on him at 17, of course, but he was there for me whichever way I decided to go. He's been 100% behind our R and would hav been 100% behind me leaving. DD is another story all together, but really doesn't enter into this. She knows, but doesn't care one way or another, as long as HER life isn't impacted.
And your H and BIL and SILOW should be the ones worried about how much damage they've done to this family, not you.
[This message edited by weepy at 12:10 PM, February 27th (Wednesday)]
Thanks, LostHeart for asking. MC was good. Much needed for us both IMHO. Now he wants to see us seperately. I think he is trying to feel me out. He asked us both if we needed to seperate and H said no. I said I don't know yet.
I don't know yet what I want. No, I know what I want, don't know if that is what I will get. As someone else said, actions speak louder than words. H said all the right things, claims he will no longer have C with OW and the lies/secrets are over. I am not believing any of it yet. I can't allow myself to.
Uni - Happy Late Birthday. Hope you nurtured yourself and had a great day!!!
Marigold - Don't have any wonderful words of wisdom for you. just hugs!!!!! I don't know how I could handle your situation. I am just soooooo verrrrrry tiiiiiired trying to handle my own OW problems.
Hefty - I am not much encouragement right now, a year out and still dealing with NC=NC and lies. Hoping he is finally out of the fog and owning his own shit. Give her time, but don't let her get away with breaking NC. I didn't set down the rules/boundaries soon enough. Was too scared.
Gotta finish later. I don't want to miss anyone, ((((((tribe)))))) to the rest of you.
[This message edited by hurtbuthappy at 12:45 PM, February 27th (Wednesday)]
Want to believe, but gotta wait and see I guess. H knows he may have pushed me too far though. It maybe too little too late. I don't know if I can ever get past the trust problems now. And I don't want to continue to live looking over my shoulder. I don't think he does either, but I don't think he knows how to get her out of his life. She goes away for a few months, then comes back. I let him know he could put an end to it if he wants to and MC agreed. Hopefully they can work on this issue together when he meets with MC alone.
Well, I am rambling now. How come when I am on here no one else is? These time differences kinda suck.
Fancy meeting you here.
Your situation has always seemed to me to be one of the most difficult ones around. I put your OW up there with some of the worst ones I've read about here. I don't think she is child-like, I think she is a Oscar-caliber, manipulative, narcissistic bitch. But I've told you that before.
For you, I think you need to get into some serious IC or if you are in IC (sorry I can't remember) then find a new one. There are a lot of standard protocols for dealing with rage issues, and some new wave kinds of therapies as well (EMDR, ceemorg, etc.).
I also had bouts of serious rage after d-day, but don't anymore. The work I did in IC licked that problem, and it helped me work out lots of other issues in my life as well.
You've got A issues swirling around that whole extended family. I think a good IC could really help you figure it out.
I'm giving you the standard line of advice among our LTA tribe here -- focus on yourself and be willing to get yourself what you need to survive and to thrive.
This is a great place for healing, Marigold, with the smartest, most insightful bunch of folks I've met in a long, long time. I'm sorry you need to be here, but here you will find understanding, compassion and good commonsense advice. Welcome.
. H knows he may have pushed me too far though. It maybe too little too late. I don't know if I can ever get past the trust problems now
Exactly where i am but you have added worries of breaking NC. I couldn't begin to offer any advice. Do you think the MC got through to him at all. Sometimes it helps them to hear it from someone else .
My H after 1/2 dozen sessions with IC seems to be jumping ahead although like you i don't trust even that either. He has actually said he wants to really start and get into it deep , answer any and all questions. He means it but that doesn't mean he won't lie when it comes down to the nitty gritty, at least that's how it's always been. He's remorseful i know but he doesn't have one friggin' clue as to what he's really done.
Guess i'm not much help at all today HBH, too slumped to help myself. Funny now that he's finally ready to talk i find myself very reluctant. Any ideas on why that would be? I know like you i'm afraid that even with the whole truth it may be too late.
HurtShirley said the other day that she doesn't feel that spark any more, i haven't felt that in a long time, it seemed to slowly slip away and i was aware of it at the time. The butterflies i always got just thinking about him just stopped and i wondered what it meant. I'm still wondering. I'm afraid it's just to late, i'm afraid i just don't love him anymore and i'm missing those feelings like i would miss a lost limb. Ahh, sorry HBH, i'm just a mess today too, but (((hugs)))
I’m not much good to anyone right now. But I DO want to say that I hope you had a really good day Unicorn and that Mr OB helped you enjoy every moment.
Marigold. Well, what to say, welcome back and hugs to you.
That’s all folks.
Better day tomorrow, maybe.
Hugs Tribe. ((((()))))
Many of us seem to be going through an assessment stage in the M. Unremorseful- uncommitted-not willing to work on themselves or M consistently- Spouses seem to have left us feeling very jaded and cynical.
We are looking at our spouses and are not liking what our clear eyesight is seeing.
Some of us are wondering whether the M will make it. Some of us are wondering whether we will make it.
Some of us are even wondering whether all this is really worth it.
If only I had a crystal ball.
There are unfort no answers, no guarantees, nothing we can rely on except ourselves.
So if we do as our wiser ones here suggest, which is focus on ourselves, at least then we know for sure, that whatever happens in the M, we will be ok.
For me, that means achieving some financial independence, and a backbone. As I have mentioned ad nauseum here, I start work on Monday. Its a parttime post (Mon_Wed) but its a start. As for the backbone, I have a strong kickass IC who is guiding me on my path. And I have you guys as well.
So lets think of your goals, what you need to survive this LTA Crapland with or without your S?
You know mine. Whats yours?
HBH, glad the MC went well.
Mig and Hbh and whoever thinks it may be too late to R.No words, just hugs.
Hang in there Tribe.
I guess you can all see where I am right now. I want to bash the sh*t out of him. F*cking stupid asshole. And her. OW. Did I say I saw one of her doppelgangers at the motorway services? Once again, some poor woman must have wondered why I was looking at her in a way that would kill. I think the malice was palpable. I wanted to scream at her to get out, get out of my sight, how dare she be there to remind me of what he had done. Fuck off. Poor woman slunk off under my glare. And really, normally, I’m soooo easy going. Timid, even. Well, perhaps not timid, but I’d say I’m shy.
Better day tomorrow. Please. For all of us struggling, too many to mention. Nite Tribe.
Well, LostH. To survive with or without my H? A plan. A time plan. A time projection forecast. On a wall calendar. A chart with all the interim targets and deadlines to achieve the final desired outcome. Nice and neat and ready to be ticked off as each objective is reached
UK - you would have to know me better (or longer) to know that this is not a joke. I actually think something like this would be great for the LTA book. Some kind of private planner where the BS can make a plan for the "what if" option of getting out. I know I have already spoken to the H about transferring assets to my name and the kids name. The way our will is currently set everything is joint. I looked into a post-nup and found it wouldn't hold water in a nasty D battle. I think having something like this wouldn't be a bad idea. I.E. "one should be aware of x,y,z. one shoud plan for x,y,z. the children should be told x,y,z."
Even in your struggles you are coming up with great ideas!
Don't swim against the riptide. (((UK)))
For me, that means achieving some financial independence, and a backbone.
LostH - I don't know about the financial independence but you certainly are in no need of a backbone! You are such a force for all of us - cannot you see it for yourself?
I think going back to work, even part time, will give you even more self-confidence. Also, it may prove to be enough of a distraction (not meant in a negative way) to help you with getting to a new place. I know my work and my sports have been a savior through this.
I hope you are sleeping. And, when you wake up I hope you are in the tribes home with the breeze coming gently through the open windows.
Well, LostH. To survive with or without my H? A plan. A time plan. A time projection forecast. On a wall calendar. A chart with all the interim targets and deadlines to achieve the final desired outcome. Nice and neat and ready to be ticked off as each objective is reached. And, of course, the back up plan. If on the “wrong” side of the fence? Then a booby-trap device implanted in case he should find it. But I ain’t that clever. And I can’t help but think he would want the best for me and my boys. Maybe. He can be ruthless
You know what UK, I really dont see anything wrong with this. I really really dont.
I used to think that this is how H thinks: clear and logical and rational..and thats was one of the traits that drew me to him. That with him I will always know where I stood, that he will always play fair, that he will not be impulsive or illogical or just plain stupid..like my F.
And confound it ! Thats exactly what he wasnt and did.
A little while ago we had that discussion here about how we (me! ) need to give up the illusion of control. About how these plans dont really work, That they just give us a false sense of security. Thats true. But darn, I wish it wasnt. I so wish with all my heart that there was a plan, and if we followed it, that we would get the desired outcome.
Shirley, I know I flex muscle here, but IRL I am a sad yellow backed coward.Ask my H. He knows better than anyone.
Anyhow whilst chatting with mumto3 yesterday, I was sorting out my clothes. I have been doing some sporadic work shopping when the budget allowed. So I was hoping to salvage some items from the mumsy clothes and build a wardrobe. Alas. Not a pretty sight.
Also for some reason all the work clothes I did get all black. No colour.
So as it is Mother day on Sunday, I asked H if I could buy myself my presents to which he agreed. So I am off now to do some shopping. Hopefully not come back with more black. Brown then?Mmmm.
I know the rage too well.
I was describing it to Mum yesterday how I want to smash his face in, then again and again.She suggested a pillow with his photo stuck on it, but no. I want him to hurt.Not just physically cos you can always be stitched up and be as good as new. The thing is for someone as void as he is, he will never ever come close to feeling the depth of my pain. So its pretty pointless then for me.
Hang in there UK.
Big hugs to all of you who are struggling. Theres an interesting dicussion going on in General from Wincing At Light about the BS's Obligation to Recover.