Btw, good for you for keeping some money away for you. OPen up another account, put into something that will slowly grow bigger.And DO NOT touch it unless absolutely necessary!!!
That was never really an issue. Since my H hates/loves strong authoritarian women, he would bark, but he'd never stop me from taking whatever I wanted from our accounts.
I'm way faster at the computer than he is anyway and I'd have that money moved so quickly his head would spin!
He opened "his" checking account when he started his business. When it started to become and "issue" for him to give me household expense money, I opened my own acoc***s at a different bank. When my mother passed away and left me a sum, I stashed it there. I later spent it on vacations, Christmas, etc. (before I knew) but the money she left our kids, I took control of that too.
I'm the one with the 401K, the medical insurance and IRAs. He has nothing.
When I told him I'd deposited the check,he said "fine", what's our account balance now? I told him and he dropped the subject. He knows he'd be in the fight of his life if he tried to "advise" me on what to do with it.
I hope this doesn't come off as bitchy, because we are trying to be partners about our money, but even my IC last night said that he defers to me to handle things because he feels incapable. I've always done it, it's our M dynamic and has been every year except during the affairs. Then he thought he had some "say" in our money because he was blowing it and I didn't know. Gave him this false sense of power.
The money I put aside for me, is "fun" money. If I feel like buying ME a treat like a massage, I don't have to feel "guilty" or "explain" it to anyone.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
The money I put aside for me, is "fun" money. If I feel like buying ME a treat like a massage, I don't have to feel "guilty" or "explain" it to anyone
Ok, no more dredging up bad memories Lost! Get a grip!
Hope I didnt offend you Weepy. I just wanted to make sure that you are looking out for yourself.
I had IC today, and I always come away from it feeling so bruised (?)if thats the right word.
She touched on so many subjects today, but the one thats burning in my mind is on H's relationship with OW#1 and its effects on us.
Remember I said that whilst I can understand OW#2, its OW#1 that I grapple with. In my mind, ist either about sex or love, sorry, luurrvvve or both.
Well, H maintains that he didnt love her, OW#1, at all, whilst he has admitted that he did love OW#2 at one time. Then he also says that he and OW#1 never had sex. So WTF? It wasnt love and it wasnt sex. So what was it that made them last some 12-14 years??
However IC said today that she believes him, that it was neither.She believes that they were in an abusive relationship; that H was acting some FOO (related to his mother) issue with OW#1.That they both, but more her OW#1, abused each other, that she, by denyng him sex, actually castrated him, and thats why he couldnt let go. Or something to that effect.
So he would have had very negative feelings whenever this occurred through the years, and he would have taken it out on me (who else as she was far away).So the crap he got from her would have been played out on me, which was prob why he was so abusive to me.
My head is spinning with this.So its prob not coming out clear. My question is this: Has anyone suggested to you, that the relationship between your S and OP was abusive? And then what?
Who do you talk to about IC? I so much need to talk to someone about what comes out. I know I use you guys, but someone IRL would be nice too. I am too wary to tell H, cos he will just use it against me. So what do you do?
So any thoughts.
He admitted to MC it was a f**ked up thing to do
So when they talk of love, MIG, its seldom love as we know it
HBH & LH ,Maybe we should all take both your statements, put 'em together and all agree that they were simply fucked up all the way around and leave it there
Then my IC told me it was for me and I was so enmeshed with H that I wanted him to know every thought, every feeling, every minute of my session. So I stopped talking to him about my sessions -- they were good or bad. That's it.
ABout the same time I was trying to get him into IC and he adopted that "hey, it's for me alone" attitude and if I asked him what they talked about, he'd clam up and say "you said it was for ME." (He was pissed about having to go)
Now if we've touched on something I'd like him to know, I will tell him. But since that backfired on me once, I rarely do it any more. If I ask him about what he talked about now, he'll give me a brief synopsis, like "work" or "the job interview". No specifics.
Do you have one trusted friend or relative that knows what you're going through? No one on either side knows here, H even denies going if asked. Our counselor told us that her D danced with my SIL, so I mentioned it to SIL and she wanted to know how we knew this girls mother (guess she knew what she did for a living) and H said "we ran into her one day." I was all for telling everyone that we were doing this... but then he figures they'd want to know why and we're not ready for that.
Weepy , you are one strong woman but tell me do you have any hair left or have you pulled it all out in frustration?
I am still worked up from the IC session. Its time like this I feel so alone IRL. I learnt to deal with the loneliness during the M, it just seems so much harder now.
H is going away on his annual ski trip with DS tomorrow. As usual he hasn't packed a thing, his truck is a mess and he couldn't fit baggage in there if he tried. He's had 4 months to think about this and it's all getting done today.
I said I would make food for them and I've just finished making 4 meals for them (mainly because I want my son to eat). I washed his socks and his underwear. Because he waits until the last minute he gets tense and I take the brunt of it. I'm not looking forward to tonight. Especially since if it was ME going away I'd want to make tonight a special memory, but he'll be too stressed out to do anything but snap.
He just called and I said I was taking a 5 minute break before I started tonights dinner and he said "you only get 4 1/2 minute breaks". Trying to be funny. ha, ha.
So what I really need to do is put my chicken in and then go take a nap so I'm not tired and cranky and overworked too.
I feel you are stuggling in many ways badly LH. (((LH))) Maybe IC is focusing to much on finding out why he had the A's? He should be in IC figuring that out and telling you!
Maybe a shift should happen where you focus on how you feel about what the A's did to you and where you should go from here?
Hefty, this was just an small discussion with IC.I tend to ramble through topics cos theres just so much (you may have noticed that. ).
IC asked me which A affected me more, the alleged 12 year EA or the 2.5 year EA/PA?
And I dont know. So we were trying to figure that out.
Then put on your most comfiest pjs, get into bed and go to sleep
Love to, but he does all this in our bedroom, but I might just crawl into bed with my book.
Here are some questions I have been asking myself with regard to any of our M surviving and may be a good discussion here:
1) Can the part of the WS that was horrible enough to have the affair die? That part needs to die IMHO if you are ever to really have a true M or they will always be separated from us their spouses. IC and looking within themselves and confronting their nasty horrible self. Scary for someone to do. Dive in and look at the worst part of yourself.
2) Can we accept what had happened? I do not believe you need to forgive to move on but if we stay with the person at some level we must accept. So hard to do as they DESTROYED US. I am strong now myself but am so sad and hurt deep inside I am amazed I can stand sometimes.
3) Have our WS started to do the things necessary to heal us? The "do they get it" question. I know a large part of the healing is in ourselves but they can make it oh so much better and help dispell some of the resentment we all hold as a result of their A(s). Without their help and us staying we will always resent them. Not the life I will live. They had fun, hurt us, and did not care.
I struggle with these constantly.
I myself am still in the wanting to R camp. I want to see if the changes my wife has just begun are real and if I can see progress and find answers to the questions above.
Mig, In my case and due to the very nature of a LTA, I think my H loved OW while he was with her. Then, when he wasn’t with her, he didn’t particularly. Much of it is to do with (as I learned from this site) that emotional state of limerence. And as Mari said, the state of being “in love” rather than the deeper, more permanent one which is supportive and reciprocal rather than mirror reflecting and vain. My H had a “romantic affair”, and that meant falling in love. The hardest bit for me and the bit he minimises by saying yes, it was a love of sorts but not a true love b/c it was incomplete and destructive. He also described it as “compulsive”, he was compelled to revisit the lost love state for that idea that they could have had something together. Difficult. But I can’t agree with HB, I think my H put the slant of being “neglected” on after the A started as a form of justification.
Hefty, you’re doing fine, just great. Keep looking after you as a priority while she sorts her messed up head out. As for “getting it”, they can’t. Even if they read the “marital tsunami”, even if they read our diaries and journals, our letters and outpourings of grief, they cannot get inside us just as we cannot get inside them. All they and we can do is try to reach some kind of mutual understanding. And I don’t f*cking understand!!!
Like you weepy, I’m in charge of the money. Ever since I nagged and cajoled him into a better mortgage with savings that would pay the redemption fee in less than a year b/c we would be paying HALF in repayments AND get a cashback sum for changing to this particular lender. He was looking for the catch – there was none. Then we moved 6mths later, stayed with the same lender and got ANOTHER cashback. So I’ve done all the money since. And as I’m not a taxpayer (give myself up to the NI/tax mark each month plus ex’s), the money is all in my name, the house is joint (mortgage free), his pension is private and portable, so….. I think I win, win, win. And the money in the business is – mine! It’s not that much, but he can’t touch it. I find that quite funny.
LostH, I don’t talk to anyone about my IC/MC. That’s for us. The few friends in the know I talk to. A lot. In fact, they’re probably sick of me going on, but they’ve been there too, so they just listen. I do think it’s important to have someone IRL to moan to every now and then, simply b/c it IS real. Even if, when they say “how are you?” you can answer “fine, apart from that POS called H” I’ll be chatting to my best male friend tomorrow. Saw him through his D about 11 or 12 yrs ago, his move, his various gf’s (married and otherwise …) and we went to his wedding in 2002. I love him dearly and he has given me some turn around moments during this mess. I could have had an A with him during and just after his D, it was close. DS4 was just a baby. But b/c I didn’t, it has meant he has really been there for me and given me the male perspective, not like FWH bf who has H’s interests foremost and me second. So isn’t there just one person you can confide and chat with about this sh*t? If I was nearer, I could be your real life let’s-go-for-a-coffee pal. >sigh<
As to the “which was worse” LostH, I don’t think they can compare. They were so different and just as damaging each in its own way. And I think you have the problem of a H with long term issues going back to even who he is or where he fits into this world. Sorry, I’m not so eloquent or insightful as you, but does that make sense?
Weepy. No, no, no, no, NO. Let him pack. Yep, take a bath. I’ve had it with doing everything for my H only to have it all on MOW’s bedroom floor. F*ck him, he does it himself. When we went for the few days to the parents, he forgot his sponge-bag. Tough sh*t. I’d got mine. His mum had to stick a spare toothbrush in boiling water for him. Ha, ha!! Shrug your shoulders and leave them to it, I’d say. How else are they gonna learn?
1) Can the part of the WS that was horrible enough to have the affair die?
(2) Can we accept what had happened?
Ditto with the LTA. It happened. Nothing we do or say will undo it. We have to accept it, and in time, you will.
3) Have our WS started to do the things necessary to heal us?
In my sitch, yes. However, it took a long time after both ddays, and even then, he hasnt been very consistent.
Hefty, I know you are prob getting tired of hearing this, but I will say again, as someone who had BDDT.
Its still early days for you.Sure think of these questions, but really, take each day as it comes. You sound like an action oriented man, and I admire that (esp since I am anaction oriented too). However you will find that there is just so much you can do. This is a process for you both. You both have separate roads to travel for now, your goals ultimately and hopefully, should be the same, but please Hefty, try not to look at the big picture now. Just focus on the pieces for now for eg, you recovering from this and DD.
So isn’t there just one person you can confide and chat with about this sh*t? If I was nearer, I could be your real life let’s-go-for-a-coffee pal
Maybe we can get your H to get a job closer to here?
Re the 2 A's, IC was trying to get me to figure out why I found the LTA#1 so distressing seeing as there was no PA and he said that he never loved her.
But nevermind about that.
I am so angry. IC said that its ok to hate him. She made me say it out loud and I did and the tears started rolling down my face. (Isnt its strange how I can only cry in front of H, but with other people, the tears roll and then I suck it in?)
I hate him. I hate him. The way he smells. The way he eats. the way he laughs. the way he tells the same stories over and over again and.the way he changes the way he talks when he speaks to women. the way he changes the way he acts with different people. the way he is proud of his intellect. the way he he treated me all these years. the way he took out his crap with OW#1 and all his other slutty gfs before M, on me.the way he smirks. God I HATE that smirk. the way he talks to the kids about not lying or cheating or being a good person. I hate the way he gets so flustered and malleable around pretty girls. I hate him for doing this to me and the kids. I hate that he made me into this horrible person. I hate that he got to screw around all our f M, and now decide that he needs to settle down. I hate the way he way he made me feel so insignificant for being a SAHM and that I had to fight him for that.
I dont respect him. I dont honour him.I dont trust him.
You are right. I am an action oriented person. I actually realized this was one of the messed up dynamics in our relationship from day one. It was a father child relationship. I always helped my WS with everything and it fed her not good enough so I always help her mentality. For me it was I want everything to be easy/perfect for her. I now know that I have to let her rise to this occasion and not try to fix it as I always have by myself. It is a partnership and half of it is now on her. I will see what she does with it and give it some more time. So far the last two days she largely has stepped up. Baby steps on a long road but it does give me some hope for the first time since this happened.
I am glad I gained strength starting last week and am resolute in my decision that any more mess ups I am gone. I think it helped lift some fog.
I have been doing so much thinking about R and how to make it fast track a bit despite the pain. I have read virtually everything I can on infidelity and realize some key seemingly minor points that can go a long way towards our spouses making a mends.
1)Consistent caring little behaviors. Messages, emails, notes etc.
2)A mention by WS of the affair somewhat daily even in a minor way. I am sorry, here is a hug because I know you are hurting inside, a thank you for the chance, etc. It would let us know they are thinking about it too.
3)Overall better treatment in general. I think with us being in LTA's our spouses had to demonize us and treat us badly to create an additional justification for the affair. In an odd way treat us like the affair partner. Nice sweet caring willing to do anything.
I will take it one day at a time.
But I can’t agree with HB, I think my H put the slant of being “neglected” on after the A started as a form of justification.
I don't know about you all, but the reason it was so important to me to "figure out" whether H really loved the OW at one time was because I was frightened that maybe he didn't love me, that I was a "second best." I spent HOURS and DAYS comparing myself to that skank-of-the-MOW in my case. I kept replaying this idea, and my H kept reassuring me that I was not second best. When I told him one day that he must have loved the OW a LOT to risk throwing our M out the door, his response was "No, I didn't love myself"... It really was about his poor self-image, his feelings of neediness that stem from his FOO and feeling abandoned and abused by his own mother.
I also, BTW, buy into the "perfect storm" idea about As. That the A culiminates only in a particular combination of circumstnaces. The OW in my case may never have been "the one" if one of a myriad of factors had changed. I think it is probably that with many here....For us, we had a new baby, H had never resolved his childhood issues, he was away from home a lot, he had a boss riding him at work, and the OW worked with him and was also obviously unfulfilled in her own M. Change any one of those things... and OW never would have happened. Or it may have been a different OW. There was absolutely NOTHING special about the OW he picked. And I just finally came to this ah-hah moment in the past few months, after spending a long time processing it and having quite daunting thoughts flood my mind.
Weepy, Hang in there, friend. Your H will be on his trip soon and you get some WEEPY time. Woo Hoo!
Hefty, My heart hurts for you. I sense the rawness in your posts, that I remember all too well. At the same time I must say that you are by nature an optimistic person... you can still see the finish line here if you work hard. When I was in your shoes there in the beginning, I could see no finish line, and was totally noncommital to R or my H. Your W is lucky to have you willing to go the distance here and fight for your M....
HUGS To the rest of the tribe,
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
As a recap, my FWH's whore called me last year to tell me about their LTA. She left three messages on my cell phone, each nastier and nastier. H blew her off after the first message, telling her that it was over and she ruined his life. He swears and my investigations confirm that was their last contact.
She made a few attempts to call him on his cell, but he never picked up. She left some threatening messages indicating she was going to take an ad in the paper about what a horrible person he is. (Newspapers don't print things like that!)
Last summer she found my email address and sent me a slew of photos of H with her. She didn't realize that my computer was broken, and I had to access email through an internet connection. So I never had to actually see any of these vile images.
She worked for one of the vendor to our company. H called her SVP to complain, forwarded the vile email and pointed out that these threats were done on company time. Company fired her immediately. She worked in an industry really hard hit by economic downturns and couldn't find another job.
I would check her ever changing match.com profile. She never could find a man. Know I really shouldn't be checking, but we were early in R and I thought she would take down profile if she reconnected with H. After 6 months, she never found herself a man.
In searching her on the net, I noticed she was renting the lower level in her condo, trying to sell her refrigerator and had a seriously ill dog.
Anyway, H told me the other night that one of our employees told him she was totally broke and couldn't find a job or a man to support her. So she moved 1000's of miles away to live with a sibling.
H said he wanted me to know and we could be relieved that we would never run into her or have her stalk us again.
Whores get what they deserve! I think it is poetic justice.
It's hard to fight off those deep bouts of depression. I'm sorry to hear the ADs haven't worked for you. I know my IC always hounded me about excercising (bringing up those endorphins) and I never did.... but maybe you could be more motivated than I was Other than that, I just want to tell you that you will be in my prayers and that I hope you can find some way to pamper yourself and bring just a little light of joy back into FSA.
I've missed reading your posts... and you are thought of often.
Clarabell...wow, your OW is one aggressive b*tch. Glad your H was persistent in nabbing her!
Buckets to the rest of you. I try to read these days, but it's hard to keep up with all the details.
"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."
It's ok to hate him right now. Somehow I think we're going to have to let ourselves actually feel those feelings in order to get through them. I just think we're all so scared of allowing ourselves to feel those feelings because once we acknowledge them, they may never go away. But if that is the case, then that is our truth--and you know what they say about the truth...
Oh hon. I wish you strength and peace of heart.
[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 9:01 PM, February 28th (Thursday)]
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton