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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blimey, rapid posting tonight. (Rabid for me!!!)

OTC, everything you said echoes my IC/MC from last night. I’ve just read your post and, really, she said I have to make this about me and STOP TRYING TO HELP HIM. I need to work on my own healing. But, know what? It’s fucking hard when you have spent your life looking after other people’s needs. And that was another thing that came out. MC’r quietly had a go at him b/c he didn’t see at that time (2001/02) that he just had to wait for me while I dealt with our kids (okay, at the time 16, 15, 13 and 7), b/c they HAD to be a priority and he should have realised that I would be back. Selfish bastard went looking for “attention” he felt he wasn’t getting. How fucking childish can you get?

And Shirley, please don’t get me going on working class, middle class, grammar school, secondary school fucking university education. I think he took on HIS parents’ FOO issues as well as his own.

And yes OTC, I am a well brought up gel from the Home Counties. Went a bit awry tho …. Which is prob why I went white-faced, rushing sound in the ears, and a red mist at the “confrontation” when OW turned up in our town. I was ready to fucking KILL her!!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he is standing at the edge of a black abyss

Oh Shirley, he stood there for way too long during the A when he didn’t know what to do. He thought of driving into a bridge support at 100+mph. But there again, he put himself there, didn’t he?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anybody keep a "fuck" tally today? I think UK and I are setting a world record!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Shirl. First fucking laugh today!!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fortunately (I think), I don't have to be the teacher in my sitch. H has been willing to do WHATEVER I wanted to save the M from the Dday. He has thus far been walking the walk so to speak. He has been working on himself and his issues. I think I'm still doing the rationalizing of the behaviors in my head because I struggle with my life-long thought process of not wanting to stay in M with a man that was capable of this behaviour (trying out my British accent ) even if he is doing all he can now to be a better man, better H, better father, etc. In other words, I'm still struggling mightily to do this...

Modifying your beliefs and choosing new ones that serve the truth as you see things now is the second part.

(((UK, svs, weepy, Shirley, and everybody else)))



Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Found a new therapy: it is called..

Throwing a ton of shit away. I am going through the first floor now with a giant garbage bag and pitching a ton of crap. It is so liberating. My H is so lucky he is in Asia or I would just toss him in there too. Where did all this stuff come from? Why did I keep it until now?

I took two huge boxes of old crappy cook books out of here yesterday. I need a place to donate baby and children's books - any ideas?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anybody keep a "fuck" tally today? I think UK and I are setting a world record!

Fuckin' ay!


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I now know at a cellular level that I can only count on and depend on ME. I am the only predictable thing in my world. Saying this out loud for the first time was sad and I realized I went through a grieving process of letting go of the person I was who believed people who loved you and committed to that love would not hurt you. But my whole fucking life has been trying to get me to this place and so here I am.

Thankyou for the much needed smack upside my head OTC.. these are words to live by. In fact i think i'll print them and stick them on my calander and if H asks about it well, i'll be a little more creative about where to stick them next !

HS , UK, Go girls, from a gal who used to say poop instead of plain ole shit, let me tell ya, swearing is now my native tongue and f@*k is my favorite word in the entire f@#*@*g language.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley and UK, you have a looooong way to go to catch me on the fuck-meter!

I think I'm still doing the rationalizing of the behaviors in my head because I struggle with my life-long thought process of not wanting to stay in M with a man that was capable of this behaviour (trying out my British accent ) even if he is doing all he can now to be a better man, better H, better father, etc. In other words, I'm still struggling mightily to do this...
This is a tough one Steelergal. It's one we all have to wrestle down to the mats. It goes SO against all we have been conditioned to believe and yet our hearts and souls continue to pull us in a direction that goes against that grain and reconcile the M. The only way I could ever explain this to myself was to fall into my own spiritual beliefs with a loud thud. My personal belief is that we have spiritual contracts with the people our lives intersect with and each one plays a role in helping our souls move in a direction that is more aligned with Divinity. Quitting the M in bitter rejection is a move away from Divinity IMO. Finding peace from and within the chaos of a LTA, or really any EMA, and opening to love again but with new terms and definitions that align with truth as you know it now is a move toward Divinity IMO. OK, now I'm getting all philosophical and stuff but I think we have to look at the macro along with the micro of our very human lives. It's all connected.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

O/T - "naming your child"

people really need to be aware of initials especially in this day and age of texting. Just picked up my youngest from elementary school and one of the kids backpacks was embroidered with their initials. Any Guess?

<WTF>

Of course my first thought is why would someone embroider "what the fuck" on their kids backpack!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My sister’s friends’ kids are called Sam and Ella.

My friend’s ex-H initials are VD

I wish my H’s initial were FUCK. (Not far off, actually …. Gave some amusing moments when choosing boys names, DS1 is HAWK!!) TMI?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whew....There is A LOT OF PAIN on this board right now.

You know me...analogies are my second language. Actually, my career depended on creating analogies.

Looking at how "Stuck" we can get trying to accept and somehow reconcile post LTA D-day events and ensuing dramas..could be said to be very similar to being in the final stages of labor.

You know...the water (the tears) has broken, the pains are more lower, deeper, more insistent....everyone on the outside is cheering you on to push and push....to get it out and done.
You have those respites in between contractions when you can breath and even crack a smile, but then the pain comes back.
But being in labor is also the first step to a new chapter in your life.

And you know that one way or another you HAVE to deliver...you know you can't really, figuratively, sew that cervix shut and stay in that pain forever.........Even if you are scared about how and if you are strong enough to handle the responsibility of the new chapter, however it shall be.

Maybe that's what pushed me over the edge of finally making a choice.....having had very large babies with very long labors, I just couldn't stay in virtual "labor" any longer.

But I do want to add...sometimes not making a choice "right now" can actually be a "choice"....as long as it is done with the intent of standing back from the pain and observing, rather than being in active labor.

Of course my first thought is why would someone embroider "what the fuck" on their kids backpack!

Shirley, too, too funny.

I guess the people who would do that are not visitors to SI...

[This message edited by numb and scared at 3:14 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And you know that one way or another you HAVE to deliver...you know you can't really, figuratively, sew that cervix shut and stay in that pain forever.........Even if you are scared about how and if you are strong enough to handle the responsibility of the new chapter, however it shall be.
A GREAT analogy Numb! I think the one thing that is hardest to grasp in this whole mess is that none of us were out looking to have our life blow into a million pieces but it has and there's no stopping what is already in motion. The good news is that we get to put the pieces back together in the way we CHOOSE to! Before the pieces were assembled for us by others - family, culture, society, etc. There IS new beginnings available for us in this and a rebirth of sorts. Thanks Numb! Another one from the N+S hall of greatness!

ETA: Shirley, I nearly spit water all over my computer with the WTF backpack! Loved it! So, that got me thinking about what the whore OW should have embroidered on hers? (Just because I'm in a stomp on OW kind of mood today). How about:SLUT
Stupidly
Loose
Utterly
Tragic

You know I'm callin you out FSA!

[This message edited by OneToughCowgirl at 3:28 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe.

Geez, I miss you guys.

Dont have much to contribute today apart from OTC's list hit a nerve alright (Btw OTC, I missed your humour and encouragement and good sense recently here.Please dont stay away too long).

Shirley, UKg, MIG...your H's are asshats (take that from one who is married to HUGE Asshat). Please please focus on yourselves. Let him be responsible for his own road, and you just concentrate on you. My IC has been adamant on that with me and I see it here with those who are R'ed. That at some point they focused on themselves ONLY.

I allowed myself to be disrespected before.And I still do it today. BUT I am working on that, and the day will come nobody, not just H, will EVER be able to do that to me. EVer. I am so over the fucking good girl scene.

And UK and Shirley, do we really need to be using those cuss words all the time! Fucking A!!!

(((((TRIBE)))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, Shirley. I've been waiting a good long time to see you get really red-hot pissed. I was starting to get scared you weren't going to get there. I'm very pleased that you did.

Ditto for you UK.

I'm glad that Southern deb "smile sweetly, look good and don't make waves" mindset is being busted. It is a straight-jacket.

I would suggest you use that anger as the motivator that helps you turn your back on his shit and start to look at your own. To stop putting any energy into understanding and solving his problems and to face your own.

As far as I'm concerned, the only place a LTA BS needs to reach in investigating the WS is to come to believe that a person's personality and character can be so warped by life experiences that they can do the kinds of things a LTA WS does. Once we get there, and understand that it signals real, deep issues in the WS, then you've taken it as far as you should. After that, any more energy you put into trying to figure him out is falling right back into the same old patterns that allowed this whole thing to happen to begin with. It will quickly become controlling, and consuming and every other co-term under the grand heading of co-dependent.

At that point, where you truly realize that his screwed-up quotient is top tier, is when you need to detach. Right there. That is the point. And you need to make it clear that you now require him to figure out the ins-and-outs of his crapped up psyche and fix them. You can listen to interim reports on his progress, but you can't do it for him. Not if you're going to succeed.

The point that FNF talked about the other day where you stop being adversaries and start being teammates can only come when he has proved himself able to recognize his own shit and work to clean it up. The more you get into his shit, the less likely that is to happen, IMO.

One of the big fairy tales that society inculcates in women is that romantic love cures all. When does the princess live happily ever after? When she's found her prince, right? Wrong. But it's what we believe. It's among the hundreds of semi-conscious cognitions that we've picked up in our lives. We spend so much time and effort trying to find love outside ourselves when the truth is that what we have to work on most of all is finding the love within. Because let's face it ladies, for one reason or another, FOO or society or whatever, everyone of us has failed to love ourselves enough to insist on being treated well. We accepted excuses, got by with less attention and affection, even in some cases accepted outright meanness and abuse. Why? Because we did not love ourselves enough to stand up for ourselves.

That, ladies, is where you need to go, IMO. Work on finding the love within. Do a fearless and searching moral inventory. Do therapy to understand your cognitions. As OTC said, replace what doesn't work for you in all areas. Figure out how to be the woman you want to be, and how to love the woman that you are.

None of that has anything to do with the WS. But you won't figure that out until you get your head out of his shit and into your own where it belongs. If you know that he is one screwed-up son-of-a-bitch you know all you need to for right now. Let him go and start working on yourself.

If you don't know where to start, I would suggest asking yourself the question: why am I still here (in this marriage)? If your IC is any good, the honest answer to that question will tell you an enormous amount about who you are and what you really believe.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the big fairy tales that society inculcates in women is that romantic love cures all. When does the princess live happily ever after? When she's found her prince, right? Wrong. But it's what we believe. It's among the hundreds of semi-conscious cognitions that we've picked up in our lives.
BT, you have me salivating for this conversation. I just LOVE talking archetypal patterns and how they affect our subconscious. Shirley, here's another area for you to look at aside from FOO issues. Carl Jung (the main dude in this area), Joseph Campbell and Carolyn Myss - all have some extraordinary things to say about how archetypes influence us at a subconscious level. How the Princess and Prince archetype pursuede us to act in certain ways, etc. Carolyn Myss (and some others) has a theory about how we hold 12 archetypes in our spiritual sphere of being - each of us having a different mix although ALL of us having four in common:
The victim
The prostitute
The child
The saboteur
I did a two year course with her on this and it was fascinating! You can read more about it at http://www.myss.com/library/contracts/


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - think I'm going to need a new IC. Mine was good enough to pull me through the wreckage but I don't think she has the firepower to help me to this next step. I am so glad that I have the BTs, OTCs, NASs, Losts, UKs - well just the whole tribe to help.

BTW - I kinda like being pissed!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"When does the princess live happily ever after? When she's found her prince, right?"

OW really thought he was going to rescue her. He thought he was a KISA. But now I see he is no prince. He is just an egotistical fuckwit who thinks he can raise his own self esteem by making some female feel good about herself, whether me, his mother or his long lost love. He’s so busy looking for someone to rescue that he doesn’t see the woman next to him drowning. He’s rescued her once (rape “victim”), so she doesn’t need to have her head held above water, cos she can swim, right? She, Mrs Competent, doesn’t “need” him. So to feed his ego, he about turns and “rescues” his lost love. Meanwhile, I’ve inhaled the water to the point of irreversible cardio-vascular damage.

I’m done. I’m dead. Thanks, but I really want to kick his ass out of the door. I’ve had it with trying. Another night of no sleep beckons.

"If your IC is any good, the honest answer to that question will tell you an enormous amount about who you are and what you really believe."

She’s got her work cut out with me.

ETA, forgot the quote boxes - again!! And, you're just too fast for me. I was posting after BT!!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:14 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ALL of us having four in common:
The victim
The prostitute
The child
The saboteur

Absolutely true and a VERY worthwhile study. Jung's work and Myss's modern version of it are valuable tools for self-exploration. I was lucky to attend a Caroline Myss seminar several years ago. Her concepts are applicable to our journeys here.

At that point, where you truly realize that his screwed-up quotient is top tier, is when you need to detach. Right there. That is the point. And you need to make it clear that you now require him to figure out the ins-and-outs of his crapped up psyche and fix them. You can listen to interim reports on his progress, but you can't do it for him. Not if you're going to succeed.

This is such clear and very real truth in the LTA recovery process.

Only until I stepped back and gave up being "involved" in his journey back, did I find any sense of inner peace.

Sisters (and brothers), this is what this LTA thread is all about....
BS Recovery !!!!

[This message edited by numb and scared at 4:55 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oooooooo-Eeeeee! Look at the wisdom going on in here today!

Amazing.

How, and more importantly, WHEN did you all (NAS, OTC, BT) come to terms with this? When is it my turn? >whine< I'm so fiercely codependent that I'm scared to death of letting it go and letting it be his to deal with. (Here come the excuses...) It's more than him just "not doing it"--he has never been given the skills to even know what "it" is.

>sigh< Again, I suppose I do what I advise everywhere else and just (in singsong voice) DO IT--let go, work on myself, and he can come along or get left behind. And at that point, if I've done my work, either way will be ok with me because my happiness will be too high a cost to pay. RIGHT??? (Preparing to sing it all again.) Now I just need another book to read on "letting go". I'm hopeless!

Like OTC said, i made excuses and rationalized his behaviour, family, society or conditioning, sure i agree but excuse my language, this scares the fucking shit out of me! What if this is what i'm doing now? Trying to understand his FOO issues,understand his self esteem issues, trying to understand his fear, understand all this and searching for the whys of it all. All the working, the reading, the talking all that stuff, am i still looking for a way to justify or rationalize his behaviour or him? If i knew this is what i was doing i would hate myself.

Now see, this is such a great point. Are we trying to rationalize this? Make excuses for it? Is it part of human nature? Is this something that has to be done in order to preserve ourselves after the trauma? Is this part of codependency? I guess you're right...it just needs to part of the whole "letting go" thing. Like BT and OTC said, it doesn't matter. We know all we need to know. They're just UP!!!

But so am I. Do you ever feel like there isn't enough time in your life anymore to fix what needs to get fixed?

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 4:45 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


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