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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh and Fnf, the more and more I read your posts, the more I regret us not meeting up! Sigh.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Me again.

Anyone noticed the typo at the top of our spa?

Whats an affaris??


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shh....proof the mods are are drunk. don't make a big deal out it, we don't wanna get on their bad side


Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL - that should tell you how 'off' I am that I did not notice the typo cuz that sort of thing jumps out at me all the time (many years of clerical proofreading).

((((LostS))))
How are you doing? Did H call back then? That must have been so nervewracking for you. Are you going to address this with him, or let it go?
Is this a red flag for you, or do you think its a genuine mistake?

LostH H called at 9:30a and asked cheerfully "how are you today?" to which I answered 'half-dead'. I didn't sleep for a long while after we hung up last night and I'd already taken all the meds I could without overdosing. Then I had strange dreams when I did sleep so got up about 7:15a. Again... I get 'I'm sorry dear' but I am just tired of this - too little, too late. I didn't let it go. How does being excited about the great sale outcome make it ok not to call and let me know before going out to his celebration so I can have a peaceful evening. It's a red flag re:cheating, it's that he tells me loves me, thinks about me all day but can't take a few minutes call me before leaving the office to spend several hours out celebrating. OW is not involved in the out-of-town part of the job. She is local. It's knowing that I heard the same words from him all these years and I didn't suspect anything about the LTA... so when he says them now I don't know what to believe. Now... Then... what is different? A few years and a lot of tears and heartache. But I'm still here loving him - not in the same blind trust way - he seemed surprised to hear that. It has been said I've been too nice. Guess something snapped and I don't feel anywhere close to nice. He got paged and we hung up. Maybe he'll call at the end of the business day. Maybe he'll be too busy or too excited by another great auction day. Either way, I'm not even sure that I should answer the phone...

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf, that Martina McBride track sound like itís from OW point of view.

There was so much stuff. Page after page. And he says it meant nothing. He wrote:
The seasons have gone but they will return, the Winter,
Your Spring, the Summer, and our Autumnal delight,
To be shared, to be treasured, something to be repaired,
Our journey rejoined, our pathway remeasured and steps,
Carefully trodden, never leaving the stepping stones,
Lest one butterfly dies, and we change the world.

The Butterfly Effect. He doesnít want to change it. He doesnít want to go back and erase what he is doing. He wants what it is, to live in the moment, to have it unchanged as a memory. So where does that leave me?

Well, he can keep his fucking ďmomentsĒ. They might end up being all he has. I think this is the real reason why Iím here on this site. Iím truly fucked up by his emotional entanglement, his chasing the past, the dreams, the what might have beens.

LostH, his ICis about how he can help me, I am her main concern b/c she canít sort him until Iím on an even keel. She is concerned with me getting what I need right now. She is sorting him out and his why and wherefore and he is understanding the impact his A has had on him, me and our M. And she will get to the root in the end, if he is willing. We see her once a fortnight, we did go monthly, but there were always issues, so at my instigation we do two weekly. I do trust her, really. But Iíll get FWH to look someone else.

BT, he really is very clever with words. He is extremely articulate, Iím not bad, but he should have been a politician. He can appear to answer the question, then later, you realise heís danced all around it, but not actually replied to the specifics raised. Thatís one reason I wrote all the Qís down a year or so ago. And then I find he hasnít answered them truthfully, or he has lied by minimising and belittling to the point of it not being an issue. Well, Iím sorry, but him saying ďI didnít contact her that frequentlyĒ when I find out it was a dozen times a day or more is ďfrequentĒ in my book, but obviously not in his.

I had stopped asking. But the latest thing about it being HIM pursuing HER and not the other way around is a pretty big issue for me and the result has been an emptying out of the A box all over the floor Ė again. Just tell me the fucking truth, you fucking idiot. Thatís all I ask. Iíve always said he was first in line for intelligence, but last in line for common sense. Me? Iím LOADED with common sense. I donít care how many qualifications heís got, heís still an idiot.

Iím sorry. This is a real pity party and Iím drowning in the punch bowl. And that first verse? Near the end, ďfoxfireĒ? The name on two of our houses. One of which was near where she lived as a childÖ.. thank God itís not the name of our current house.

Iím really not offering anything to anyone right now (like a certain OW I can think of), but I feel like Iím losing it. This from someone who COPES. I just get on with things. Deal with it, move on. Iím the one to give advice and to be there for other people, not the wet blanket who gives up, crawls under the duvet and weeps.

I think someone stole my bootstraps. Okay, Iíll use my bra straps instead (hey, make that camisole ) I will get over this, I will not let it push me under, I am better than him, I can be strong and I can find a way through this shit.

I want to say thank you. This place has been my everything when I was at such a low give-up point. Really, I had nothing left to give and the LTA tribe has so much wisdom and strength to offer those in the pit of despair. I need a glass of wine. See you in the morning. love you all.

ETA, sorry, ref to foxfire was in another poem I had started to quote, "the room with its own foxfire". PUKE

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:01 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK fnf, we have to get together again. I felt so empowered after lunch with you two.

Hoobastank song, it's on the CD I made for H after Dday. Not his kind of music, but yeah, that's what I want to hear.

But I get it convoluted from him. The IC says he is saying what I want to hear, but he couches everything so negatively it's hard to hear the message.

He said he couldn't face me or the kids, that's why he hid behind the video games and the anger and the sleeping and worked 7 days a week. He escaped with her and then he had to escape from her and from us. He was nowhere.

He says things like "If I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't be" instead of "I want to be here". "I don't have anywhere else to go" instead of "I don't want to go anywhere else."

Yes, our relationship has many layers, many moments other than the affairs. But there were layers to the LTA too. No way in hell it happened the way he said it did. According to him, every time I'd say something he'd tell me "you think that because you're a woman, men don't think that way". Uh, were you fucking another man? Then why didn't SHE think that way too? His answer "because she was weird, odd, different". He swears she wanted no more from him than to be treated like a hooker. Excuse me? Did you read her letters? The ones where she said she loved you and missed you and wished you were there with her all the time instead of the stolen minutes? OH yeah, I forgot, she was a liar too.

Last night we were watching Idol. He's making comments about Paula being wasted. And all I can think about is his GF being high and him NOT criticizing her. But if I have a little too much to drink, I'm an alchy and a disgrace.

It's like his pendulum has swung back completely to the opposite side. Sex all the time to no sex. Hanging out with low lifes, druggies and never home to being judgemental about anyone who isn't "perfect".

He's just called. He's giving his notice at work. He'll start the new job in 2 weeks. He called me the minute he knew. He told the kids right after me. WE are first on his mind, on his agenda and I know he loves me, I just can't make that step.

On the McBride song, I don't hear that as OW speak. I hear that as confused wife speak... like maybe he is fooling around and she's sensing the distance and asking what's going on. As to whether it applies to me.. where would I be if H wasn't in my life.... I don't know.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((LostS)))
I dont know what to say.I hope someone else comes along with some advice. Maybe I am just so anti-WSs right now, but your H is acting like a complete prat!
But you know that already.

Of course you are upset. He is behaving like how he did during the A, putting himself first. You can fuss and rant but it doesnt change a thing, does it?

The only thing you can control is you. Either you stand your ground and mean it; or you decide whether this is good enough for you to R.

And dont for a minute think that he is too busy to know better. HE knows. HE chose how to act last night.

****
(((((Ukg)))))
Oh my Friend.

Please box those stupid poems up. Oh better yet, how about a little burning excercise. This can be quite cathartic you know, putting those ugly poems to some fire and watching them turn to ash.

We know you are LOADED with common sense. Remember what we were saying to each other recently about us being where we need to be, and not fighting it. You came up with that brilliant analogy of the riptide.

So just be, Ukg. If you are feeling sorrow, then embrace it openly. Cry, mourn, wail, get angry, stomp your feet, deface H's photos...whatever you need to go through this. Speaking from one common sense girl to another, I BET you havent ever let go like this before in your life?
Wear black, keep the curtains closed.

You know in our community, they "allow" us 40 days to grieve when a close family passes. In that time, other family members/friends bring in food, help with cleaning etc. All you do is grieve and pray.At the end of the 40 days, everyone gets together and eats a meal and pray together. Then the bereaved are "released" back into real life again.

I had huge problems with this when my DS passed away, but I can see how it can help though. Maybe thats what we need. A proper mourning time where we dont just grin and bear it and fake our way.

That what I am offering you Ukg, on behalf of the Tribe. You dont have to be anything you are not feeling.

Like BT said, honour your feelings.

When the time is right, and it will come, you will be ready to wash your face, open the curtains and make your next move. And we will be here with you.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's like his pendulum has swung back completely to the opposite side.

Weepy, theres something here but I cant quite see it.
Maybe he is holding himself to a stricter code as well, not just the rest of the world?

Also I am so glad he called you and the kids first about the job. HE sure took a long long time, but it does sound like Mr Weepy may be coming around.

I am all over today, arent I?
Guess I was suffering from withdrawals.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh.My.God. Could they make training any more boring?

(Hope nobody here is a trainer, but if you are I am sure you are fascinating )

Now I have to read 3 pages of posts to catch. I guess what goes around comes around as I was miss prolific yesterday.

I will catch up and be back to comment....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the more and more I read your posts, the more I regret us not meeting up

Ditto, Lost Heart. I'm just hoping that when I get back to London we make sure to make this happen.
Weepy - Let me know which days are best for you and we'll get together. Meeting IRL is so incredibly amazing. I wish all of us had that opportunity.
UKgirl- I listened again to Would It Be Me and still hear it from a BS perspective. Interesting that you hear it from the OW - maybe that's a positive thing.
(((LS))) and (((UKgirl))) - sounds like you are both having such a hard time with your H's. I am furious when I read these posts. Some of these FWS's have no idea how lucky they are that we're still here. I don't understand where they come off giving you a hard time and expecting you to make the changes, get over it, and stop making them uncomfortable. It just makes me want to scream. Some of them really earn, and wear proudly it seems, the title of fucktard.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum.... my WS had a 2 1/2 year A. I've been wanting to jump in, but it's a little intimidating. Alot of people here. But this is where I belong!

I know that I will eventually have to share my story, but just thinking about it exhausts me. It's just been a really LONG week and I am tired.

So I just want to put myself out here and say hello, and I shall return soon.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, lovinlife. Hang in there!


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fucktard

Does anybody know the genesis of this word? It is perfect.

After reading all three pages all I can say is I am so sorry for all the hurt and pain.

UKgirl - you seem to be a darker place than I and, reading the poetry, I can understand. I agree with others that, although well crafted, it is somewhat juvenile in its emotional maturity. I definitely think he was trying to revisit a prior era in his life that just wasn't there.

LostS - read mine and Emptyone (my H) profile. I would say more than 90% of his fucking around was on company time. He was fucking around with women at his co. behind his LTAs back. (Please don't take this too personally because this might be my own mini-rant) This is NOT acceptable. I don't care if he won the fucking Nobel Peace Prize, he needs to call. He must let you know where he is if you want to know. This is complete bullshit and smells to high heaven. Sorry if this is not your history but it is mine.

Weepy - I agree with LostH - there is something there that he is trying to say. Your recent behavior has been so strong - maybe that resonated with him? Try to stay in that place with him and see if he responds?

LostH - thank you for coming in every day without fail. How is it going with the new job? Are you happy? Is it making you feel like you have your own place?

Sorry if I missed anyone....geez, three more pages in one day and there aren't that many of us.

H. is on his way home from the airport. Came home a day early from Asia. In the old days, he would have stayed until Friday for the party and his "massage". Funny, I would rather have him there than here. The kids will be glad to see him though.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, Lovinlife we crossed while I was posting. Please feel free to post whatever you want. I stumbled in here in tears and was gently raised off the floor and allowed to walk again. Please tell us your story.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Steelergal,
Thanks for the welcome.... and thats what I'm doin, just hanging...., and listening and

reading.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurtshirley,
thanks.... I know that I shall cross w/alot of people. I am not a very quick typer!!!! I appreciate the welcome and will share later this evening or later this weekend. Just having a hard time gathering my thoughts, much less sharing them.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
zanny
♀ Member
Member # 13183
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey all:
It's great to read so many insightful posts. I wish I had more time to really sit and mull them over. I have been away..so busy with work and life.

Anyway, what struck me was how much anger was in the posts. After being away for a while, the hurt and anger just drips off the pages.

After this second d-day, I thought I would be right back in that spot, but for some reason, it just doesn't seem to be there for me.

Like Numb said, there is just a point, where you realize that the work is on them. There is a distance that takes over because it just simply isn't about you. When you accept that, and accept that this may be a situation you don't have control over, then you can move on to yourself. The first go around, I really believed I had control. Now, I know that it is an impossibility no matter what or who the person is. Even if I remarried, I would have no control. Simply by virtue of choosing to love someone, we are choosing to lose the control over a part of ourselves.

Anyway, it is the anger that I was thinking about. Anger is a catalyst, but it's a short term one. I liken it to rebooting your computer after it shortwires and you need it going in a hurry. It feels great to get it up and running, it can get you going in the right place, but it's not good in the long run.

I think anger can be productive. It can give us the feeling that we are connecting with empowerment, by like all emotions, it will eventually fade and be replaced by another. Thank God, because we wouldn't want to sustain anger for long periods because it is intense and exhausting. I think the important thing is to take the anger and ask what did you want from it? What did you gain by being angry or generating the anger? The empowerment comes in recognizing what you want and then pursuing it not just in fits, but consistently.

BT described it...it's the walks, it's the classes, its' the job you always wanted to take, it's the focus on what your priorities are rather than on healing HIM to your degree of satisfaction. In some ways, it's taking your mind off of it, so you can go on to be the person you had intended.


BS-Me
WS-Him
D-day #1 LTA
False Reconciliation then
D-day #2
In reconciliation


"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."


Posts: 573 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: The Middle of Somewhere
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

I think I would start with some of the classics, reading wise. Even if you've read them before, I think they'll mean something different to you now. I've tried to keep it down to a reasonable number.


1. My Mother, My Self. Nancy Friday.
2. Homecoming. Bradshaw or The child within. Whitlow
3. Intimate partners by Maggie Scarf. Like Harville Hendrix, she uses relationships to explain who we are.
4. Women who love too much. Robin Norwood. The original book on co-dependence written before the term was even coined.
5. Loving Him without losing you. Beverly Engel. She actually has several great books and you could pick any one of them(Blessings from the Fall, Honor your anger, Healing Your Emotional Self).
6. Loving What Is, byron katie. I don't agree with all of her ideas, but it's an interesting, cognitive-based approach you can do yourself.
7. The Road by the River by D. Toor. If you are interested in Jung and his archetypes and how they apply especially to women.

The book I mentioned about the South is not a self-help book but a novel about a mother and daughter and all the spoken and unspoken do's and don'ts they both learned growing up as GRITS. It was a popular book, can anyone help me with the title?


And one book I think we should all have on our nightstands: The Language of Letting Go, by Mellody Beattie. You read a page per day.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Warm welcome to you, lovinlife.
As we say here, it is a place no one wants to belong to, but so glad it exists.

Take your time, get your bearings and jump in when you are ready.

It strikes me, reading the last few days...well, ever since this "Affaris X" (you are observant, Lost. )began...these nitwit, fucktard LTA H's of ours all have something in common, beyond their despicable ability to deceive for so long....
They all married smart, insightful, capable, witty, practical, compassionate, talented women.

No matter how things may have fallen through the cracks, and we all have that element in some personal way or another, along the way in each marriage in how we BS see what our flaws and shortcomings may have been... It seems that everyone at least began their marriage journey with a boatload of valuable personal attributes. As evidenced by the caliber and depth and sincerity of all the posts.

So why, if a WS has a wife he can rely on and be proud of for many reasons, would he need or desire "more?"....
Or is the question really...Why did they need or desire "less?"


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:32 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

Welcome lovinlife. When you are ready, post your story. In the meantime, feel free to jump in whether to post a reply or observation or just talk about whats on your mind.

***
Hi Shirley!
The job is going great. Mind you its only the first week, but it is FANTASTIC doing something that is not related to the family or LTA. I dont mean that in a bad way, but you guys know what I mean. I am so busy in the day that I dont obsess where H is, who he is lunching with, etc. I dont mark my time with what he is or isnt doing.

It is itimidating as this is a field (children with severe disabilities)that I have no knowledge of or experience in. But I am up for it!

The only problem (apart from what to wear) are the kids. Although they have taken to the childminder quickly, they are all reacting in different negative ways to me working, for eg. youngest DD has become even more clingy and anxious, DS is stressed out as he feels he needs to be more responsible, and eldest DD is backchatting.
IC prepared me fr this, but its still tough. I come home tired and hungry, have to cook supper, the kids want my undivided attention, I cant sleep at night.

All teething difficulties and I know I need to manage my time better. We will get there. As for H and the M...sigh.

Now arent you sorry that you asked Shirley!

***

Funny, I would rather have him there than here

I know that feeling.
Its almost peaceful w/o them, isnt it?

How does he respond to Angry Shirley, I am curious to know?
I have noticed that it is very helpful when the WS dont react too negatively when we go through this phase, and it also helps us process it better and faster.

Whereas in my case, I know that I am not allowed to fully feel my anger or sadness, and that I think stunts me and my process of healing. If we dont feel safe to experience all the phases, how can we fully let go of one phase and move to the other, KWIM?

***
((((Zanny)))

***

H and I had an argument this am. Its about an old age issue, and he cant understand why I cant see it without attaching all our previous experiences on it, and I cant see how he can.
So we reach a stalemate, him angry and me hurt.

I miss work.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

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