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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:02 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning LostH. How are things now you’ve done your first stint at working W&M? The kids will get used to a new regime, they just don’t like change.

Its about an old age issue

Huh? What issue? Your old age, parents, just generally?

Hi to you lovinlife. Take no notice of me, I’ve been on a real downer lately, alternating between a wet rag and a raging lioness!! We can all gather in the sun lounge in our robes and listen to your story while we drink tea and eat petit fours.

So why, if a WS has a wife he can rely on and be proud of for many reasons, would he need or desire "more?"....
Or is the question really...Why did they need or desire "less?"

B/c they feel they don’t deserve us. We are too good for them, maybe. No one has anything negative or spiteful to say about us. We are there for everybody, including them. But also, b/c we are so nice and accommodating, they don’t like sharing us for long. Oh sure, they want to hear people say how sweet ant thoughtful we are, but just don’t want us spending too much emotional time and energy on anyone but THEM. We have made them look good and that makes them feel we have got one over on them. Being men, that makes it “competition”. So, they go elsewhere when they can be the one looking good.

Just saying how it looks from my perspective. Except now, we feel everything we have done, everything we have been, everything we are has been stomped on, trashed and pissed over. That somehow we are fake (“if something looks too good to be true, it probably is”) and no one got anywhere by being “nice”. In fact we have lost it all due to that. So, if we have had our core values belittled to the point of insignificance, how do we find meaning to life, relationships and M? If our values aren’t shared, how can we identify with the WS?

They were clearly on a different moral plain.

PS. But I look at my boys and KNOW I’ve done something good with my life.
Now I’m out for the day. Catch y’all later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeeze UK, You've been sneaking around in my head, you just posted what's rattling 'round in there this morning. Are you feeling a bit better today?

LostH, You sound like every working mom, tired!

Welcome lovinlife, you're in the right place.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Huh? What issue? Your old age, parents, just generally?


Guess that came out wrong.I meant age-old issue.

I cant even explain it properly cos it hurts and I know its tied in to my FOO and H excarbated it through the M but I should have stood my ground and expected no less so I am to blame too blah blah blah.And I know better now than to let him get to me, and that I need to develop a thicker skin.
Soemtimes I slip up and I think I get more angry with myself for reacting the way I do, then with H for doing it in the first place.

So now we have coffee stains on the walls (I got so annoyed that I threw a cuppa at him and he retaliated in the same way)and they need to come out before the kids get home. Crap.

I should know better.

***

So, they go elsewhere when they can be the one looking good.

Ukg, I still dont get this one though.
They know that what they are doing makes them the scum of the earth, and the "goodness" ( ) they feel when they are with OW is so shortlived, how do they convince themselves otherwise?

Stupid stupid shallow men.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - I wanted to send you belated good wishes on your grad school interview. When do you expect to hear or did you already? We have all the faith in you and can't wait to pop open some champagne to toast to your success.
We have made them look good and that makes them feel we have got one over on them. Being men, that makes it “competition”. So, they go elsewhere when they can be the one looking good.

That is SO true UKgirl. We would go out to business meetings and later he'd come and tell me all the nice things his colleagues would say about me. He seemed so proud. I was pleased. To find out who it was he was fucking was absolutely shocking. I am a broken record on this one but she was a real dog. Just ask Weepy and NoMor. I brought a picture along to our meeting. I had to show them so they could see how low my H stooped in order to feel superior.
I showed her picture to our C and he just kept looking at it and shaking his head - it is a total enigma to me and anyone else who knows who she is.
How are you today, UKG? I'm sensing anger today and that's a good thing.
Welcome to lovinlife. We'll be here when you're ready to share your story.
Wow, LostH - tossing a coffee cup at your H - that just brings a big ole smile to my face.
I hope you leave his side of the wall for him to clean up.
I think it is so important for them to see our rage over what they have done for us. I have never apologized for my anger. I have apologized for some of my language , but not my anger. They did this and we have a right to express our indignation, rage, and pain. Never apologize for that LH. As my MC told my H when he complained about the level of my anger, "Put on your armor and stand there and take it - you did this to her and she needs to release this in order to heal." Unfortunately, I wasn't allowed to beat the shit out of him , so I settled for raging. Believe it or not, I have passed through that phase so there must be some logic in that approach.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:03 AM, March 7th (Friday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK,

I'm sorry that your husband is still lying. My H was a liar of 20 years standing, so I know how crazy-making it is. The fact that he is still lying is yet another argument for doing just what we all suggest and taking your focus off him.

My experience has been that people who have become habitual liars do not change because of confrontation, they change because they want to. Habitual lying is a very hard attitude/habit to break. It requires the liar to work hard and make bedrock changes in himself. He has to want to do that. You could ask questions and rail at him from now till doomsday and I think if anything it might make him less likely to be open, rather than more. If your H feels defensive, I doubt he will drop the lying or any of his other defense mechanisms, unhealthy and immoral though they are. He won't feel safe to and that will mean he won't want to.

I think turning the focus on yourself will have the dual benefit of turning your energies to healing yourself and taking enough pressure off to give him the psychic space to try something new and different. Like honesty. Cause let's face it, unless you want to spend the rest of your life confronting him over every flippin' fact of his life, your goal is to make him WANT to be a different person. If he doesn't want to be, he won't be. You cannot be his motivation. That has to come from within.

As far as the IC goes, if you can afford it, add a separate IC for you. You can still see your old one and so can he, but you'll also have someone out of the marriage loop who can focus solely on you. I think you'll see that makes a huge difference.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF, I'll hear the first week of May. Thanks for the good thoughts.

Lost,

One thing it took me a long, long time to learn about anger is that expressing it in destructive ways does not do anything healthy for you. In fact, the opposite. It's as hurtful to you as it is to the person you have directed the action toward.

My husband was a habitual liar; I was a habitual expresser. Every bit of anger that arose in me came out of my mouth in a yell, a biting comment or on occasion a thrown this or that. That behavior was not what I wanted for myself; it was not who I wanted to be.

For my anger, I worked backward. I told myself there were things I just would not do anymore. Yelling is one. Throwing things, another. Using words to hurt was another (this was the one that was hardest to stop). I didn't make those rules for the benefit of the people around me; I made them for me.

I started out by leaving conversations or situation when I could feel my anger escalating. Then I would do something healthy and physcial to release my anger. I also tried to build a break of a few seconds into my reponses to end those real fly-off-the-handle reactions. It took a long time, but eventually by stopping the really outrageous actions on my part I changed my thought processes. When I quit acting so angry, I quit feeling so angry.

I don't know if that would work for you, but I think it's worth a try. Throwing coffee and having it thrown at you definitely isn't the most effective marital communication technique.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to lovinlife. Please don't be intimidated. We're just a bunch of old softies, prolific writers, but softies just the same... especially after soaking in the hot tub all morning like I've been. Think I need a rejuevenating hot oil massage, anyone want to join?

Fell completely off that cliff I was trying to avoid after another night of H resigning himself to sleeping in our bed and then complaining first thing this morning about how achy and sore he is. And another night of no intimacy. (See my General vent).

And he may be starting his new job sooner than expected since the current boss apparently doesn't like short timers hanging around.

We went to look at cars last night. I told him I'd fallen in love with this Avalon I drove. But practically, it doesn't make sense. Neither one of us is comfortable in a smaller car though, so who knows where we'll end up. I think I'm just going to pay off this hog and get out from under the payments anyway.

((UK)) ((LH)) The kids will get used to it. The acting out is their way of saying "hey, what's going on here?"

zanny, nice to "see" you again. I sure don't think I'd be as strong as you are in your situation.

BT: Thanks for the additional reading material .

I'm off to clean out my car. H just called and I told him I was goofing on the internet and he said "you need a job". But damn the thought of dressing and actually looking presentable by 8 AM just doesn't appeal, you know?

fnf, we'll work something out... soon.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - thank for the book list. Looks like I will need to add some more bookshelves in the house!!! I will be online ordering soon.

Lost H - the kids will adjust. I know it is hard now but they will. I think about what a great example you are setting for them. AND, the fact that it is good for you and takes your mind off everything is worth whatever minor upset may happen in others lives.

LostH - you asked about my Hs response to my anger. Again, he is doing everything "right". He takes it, he bears it, he doesn't argue or fight back. Half the time he just looks really, really sad and says "you are right" or "yes, that is what I did, I can't believe it either". I know some of you are frustrated because your H's aren't as remorseful as they could be. Well, just so you know, I am frustrated because he IS so remorseful. Part of me wants him to keep being an asshole so it would be easier just to throw him out and end it all. With him as remorseful as he is and with him working on himself as hard as he is, I can't just say "that's it" - at least not yet.

NAS - I do know the answer to "Why?" at least in my Hs case. The answer is self-esteem. He had incredibly low self-esteem although he hid it well. He saw me as smarter, more successful, etc and he deeply resented it. It was almost as if he was competing with me. His resentment led to anger and at some deep level to hate for me (even though he said he always knew he loved me - how screwed up can you be?) The affairs/ONS were his way to feel good about himself. I know it makes no sense because it led him down the slippery slope (Loved THAT book) to actually feeling worse and worse about himself. Then he would need another "hit" of self-esteem by being admired/worship by the hos. He has done the work enough to give me an honest answer. Doesn't really make me feel any better though.

As far as the typos (are we allowed to giggle at the mods? ) I think it was a subconscious effort on their part to have our theme be "Safaris". I like the spa theme better (she says as she pads off in her robe and slipper to get a pedicure)


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if that would work for you, but I think it's worth a try. Throwing coffee and having it thrown at you definitely isn't the most effective marital communication technique
.

I know BT. I know.
One of my goals from IC is to leave the room when the conversation takes a nasty turn, and find a quiet corner where I can do my tapping. Most of the time it has worked. You all know how I fly off the handle so quickly. But recently it has been getting better as I have listened to my IC, and I feel better and more in control about me. Whats even better is that I see how futile the argument is, and I let it go, or try to change my direction.

Just this morning though..grrr.

Just had a thought about what might have contributed.
My sister gave me this book to read and I started the night before. She said that the main character reminded her so much of me. Of course I was curious because I know my sisters, as much as they love me, dont think much of me for staying with H, esp given our FOO background.
Anyway the book (chick book which is SO NOT me)is about this strong independent woman who falls pg and gets married and gets the whole surburban deal.But things go awry from the beginning and she ends up in a nghtmare. I was triggering all over the place But I just had to finish it.It reminded me so much of my M, H's gaslighting, my "mental health" issues..
And a man wrote it.

So if anyone wants a good cry,and is strong enough to deal with the triggers, try out "A Special Relationship" by Douglas Kennedy.

I didnt cry though. I just felt so sad for the person I used to be.And angry at H for being the person he was.

***
Hey MIG!
I wondered where you had got to. How are you doing?

***
Weepy, how about cleaning my car?
We 3 sisters have this issue with cleaning cars. My father made us clean his almost every Saterday and it had to be meticulous. We even had to put black polish on his tyres and chine the chrome. When we sat in the car, we had to dust our feet before getting in, and we werent allowed to touch the windows cos fingerprints made him cross.
My father. The original F**ktard.

***
Anyhow
BT!!!
So whats the birthday plans looking like???
50. Wow.
So who gets to choose what flavour cake you have??


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi LH, I'm hanging around, having an anxious kinda day. H is on call at work, it used to be one of his easier ways of meeting OW, "gotta go to work, this call might take a while, don't wait up" He sucks shit. Yeah and speaking of sucking shit, what kind of woman sucks some guys dick without even a condom knowing he'd probably just recently sex with his wife.

But recently it has been getting better as I have listened to my IC, and I feel better and more in control about me. Whats even better is that I see how futile the argument is, and I let it go, or try to change my direction.

Boy oh boy LH, it's so heartening to sit here across the water and watch you grow !!! Yay. LH.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if that would work for you, but I think it's worth a try. Throwing coffee and having it thrown at you definitely isn't the most effective marital communication technique

Thanks BT for making me laugh. I love a dry wit.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

speaking of sucking shit, what kind of woman

MIG??!!
Are you gone crazy woman? Do you know what you are inviting if you start asking questions like that here? We have had pages of poems, ditties, limmericks and prose of"what kind of woman" these OW are! You had better hope OTC and FSA miss this!

***
BUT MIG, why are you hanging around?
That is going to make you even more anxious,jump every time he calls, strain to hear the background noise to make sure its sounds legit, and heaven forbid, he misses a call.

Come on MIG. As much as I would love to see you relax in our spa, I want you to get out today.Visit a friend, do some window shopping (the only kind I can afford ), sign up for some course..anything! Just, and I say this with love, GET OUT!

Ok, thats my 2x4 for today.
Who's next?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

again - having a hard time keeping up with all the wisdom being shared here.

Anger - was a topic of conversation with our MC yesterday. I met with him alone and after talking nonstop for awhile, I told him it was obvious I was still VERY ANGRY. But I need to hold on to the anger right now. It is empowering and if I need to choose between anger or depression, I'm taking the anger.

He agreed that anger can be good because it allows us to become the person we want to be and not the person our WS's might want. I am not doing or saying things just to please him or to make him stay. I have kinda of a I don't give a shit attitude right now and MC thinks that can wake a WS up. He may start looking at his behavior and realize he needs to shit or get off the pot.

I don't know. All I know is I am pissed at being the one in IC, reading the books, every article I see on infidelity, working hard at putting back together this M he destroyed. What has he done? Continued contact with the OW when he felt like it or she felt like calling, lying to me and keeping secrets. Cuddling more and telling me he loves me is not enough damn it!!!! I want to see some real effort. MC, no contact, and full disclosure!!! I want it, I need it and I DESERVE IT!!!

There, I feel much better thank you. REALLY, needed to get that out. I have decided I am keeping the anger for awhile. I know it is hard to R with this, but until I see that WS is truely doing the work needed for R, I am keeping the f**cking anger!!!!


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostheart - you were posting when I was. Come on, bring on the 2x4's. I can take it!!

MIG - you are feeling the anger too, I can tell. Don't set around and wait for him. Go do something for you, let him wonder where YOU are for once. I love doing that every now and then.


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whats even better is that I see how futile the argument is, and I let it go, or try to change my direction.

Lost - I have the perfect song for you to listen to when you're feeling like this - it's called Whatever You Say and its sung with lots of attitude. This is a constructive outlet for your anger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZr98jHW7U
Any takers for posting some songs that help you through the rough times. I'd love others to join in if you're motivated.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:09 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the 2x4 LH , i needed it and yeah i guess i do know what kind of woman that ass-scab is, not a woman at all, subhuman, a poisonous pus filled boil , fuck i know just how to describe her, i heard the guys who were putting the eavestroughing on our house last week cracking jokes, one asked the other," do you know what a "willnot" is " ? " It's a little ball of shit that gets stuck to your ass and just willnot come off" That's so fucking crude but crude is too fucking nice of a word to apply to her. SHE'S A FUCKING WILLNOT. And he's worse, he's a fucking prick of a fucktard dumbass shitfaced asshole. Jesus jesus jesus will this never fucking go the fuck away


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HBH, Sorry i just missed your post, yeah i'm having an off day you might say. I'm not hanging around waiting for that shit, i spent 30 years waiting for that motherf*&*er. In any case he's oncall after regular hours, so he got the added bonus of lying to my face before he went to meet her the pigfucker.

And yeah LH i went to the mall and had to leave, all the happy people just makes we want to cry sometimes, so i did on the way home and now i'm so fucking pissed off. What gives anyone the right to do this to someone, jesus i can't even go fucking shopping like a normal person, i feel like a fucking lunatic and i hate hate hate him for doing this to me and i hate hate hate me for letting him.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SHE'S A FUCKING WILLNOT
.

OMG Mindisgone, That is the BEST - I like that even better than fucktard and I really like fucktard.
All kidding aside, I hope you're ok and believe me, a good vent does wonders especially in the safety of our cozy corner. (((MIG)))
BTW, I love your acronym, it suits you today.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I need to hold on to the anger right now. It is empowering and if I need to choose between anger or depression, I'm taking the anger.

HBH - that is exactly how I felt when I entered that phase. I'm so glad your MC is supporting you in this.
I know what BT is saying in terms of destructive anger but not all anger is destructive. My IC/MC gave me parameters which I tried to follow, but I was always happy that he supported my need to express my anger. And as I said earlier, being free to do this, helped me move past this stage of recovery.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks FNF, i'm ok and my acronym suits me all the time these days.
I love fucktard too and hey maybe someone will invent a willnot remover some fine day , we can hose down all our fucktards at once. Voila , willnot free. Scumbag ditchpigs.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
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