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User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are beautiful, strong and worthy AND ENOUGH!!!

Amen Fnf!
Much of this battle many of us fight in LTA land, seem to deal with this theme.

If we were healthy and believed this from the beginning, many of us would NOT have put up with the crappy treatment we received and accepted over the years.

For us to survive an LTA, we must heal ourselves and believe that we are beautiful, strong, worthy and enough to be in a loving, respectful, healthy faithful and satisfying relationship.

Our "job" is not to heal our WS, no matter what their affliction is.We can support them but we cant be their mule. We can listen to them but we cant cure them.

Much of surviving this, I am finding, is for me to become very "selfish", and in doing so, I will be able to give not more, but better of myself, to my children and my H.

Off my soapbox now.
And mum thanks for your gentle 2x4. I need a little kick up my ass now and then.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For us to survive an LTA, we must heal ourselves and believe that we are beautiful, strong, worthy and enough to be in a loving, respectful, healthy faithful and satisfying relationship.

AMEN to that LH!!!!! Beautifully put!!!!
And f--- the bastard who tries to get away with giving less. (Sorry for the language but on this topic I am very passionate!)


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf, I think I always believed that about men, that they are all ****ers.
Maybe that was part of why I accepted H's bad treatment over the years. In my mind, he was the better of the worst bunch. Little did I know.

Then again, I guess the men here could say the same about women.

****
Weepy, I am saying this gently. Leave your H alone. Let him sort out his own issues his own way.
Look up your insurance to see if you can find yourself a better IC. Heal yourself Sweetie. Get someone who can show you that you are beautiful, strong and worthy and ENOUGH. I know you say it, but deep down, do you believe it? (and trust me, I know how ironic this sounds coming from me)

***
Ukg, I guess that burning must have been quite carthatic. Whats the chance you threw in your H's poems along with it??

You can do it Ukg! BURN THEM!

***
Welcome back Mum.
I hope you and H made some wonderful lasting clean memories to last a lifetime.

***
I just saw that H has been reading here. Not SI but just my posts here. I feel sad. I wish he hadnt. Theres stuff that I say here that I dont to him, for good reason. Now I feel like he has seen parts of my soul that I would rather he wouldnt.

***
Hi ROBT.
How have you been doing?

And where is everyone from the regular crew?
We didnt leave them back at the Lodge did we?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost - I just had to list those things again - one by one because each of them individually is critical to a successful M and if even one of these is non-existent, then we are settling for less than we deserve.
LOVING
RESPECTFUL
HEALTHY
FAITHFUL
SATISFYING
Added together these ingredients make for an amazing combination.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH - Love your post and gives me inspiration.

I never ever should have tolerated things the way they were.

I need to keep working on me and make me the best I can for everyone: me, DD, and my wife. I just hope it matters to her. I have been trying.

I am just not used to thinking of me at all. Hard habbit to break.

I have the flip side. What if our WS never do get better or resolve anything in themselves?


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our "job" is not to heal our WS, no matter what their affliction is.We can support them but we cant be their mule. We can listen to them but we cant cure them.

Much of surviving this, I am finding, is for me to become very "selfish", and in doing so, I will be able to give not more, but better of myself, to my children and my H.

Well said... and absolutely the truth

This is one of the most important facets of LTA=Long Term Recovery...
and why it was so important to create this forum specific to LTA.

In other types of A's, the emphasis is rightfully on the "couple" joining forces to heal the M. Makes sense if there has been a faltering,
a brief straying, of loyalties.

But here in LTA-land, we all get to see and know all too painfully, that the betrayer is steeped in a deep self-made swamp that we cannot even fathom, let alone jump into as a co-fixer.

The only thing that will insure survival, whichever way closure comes, is to focus on self. To dedicate your anemic energies on improving our own emotional stamina and nutrition. How the hell can a person "feed" another when they themselves are starving.

Plus, as you included, Lost....we owe that "better" version of self to our children, as well as ourselves.

And if the LTA WS is on a path of self-discovery and remorse, better to witness that effort if we are in renewed shape and perspective.

Selfish in LTA/BS terms = Taking care of Self

** Not allowing "anyone's" past or present to deplete or define you.**

[This message edited by numb and scared at 1:01 PM, March 13th (Thursday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
unabletocope
♀ Member
Member # 11730
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interestingly enough with this talk about US and how worthy WE are, I heard a song on my oldest DD's ipod that I hadn't heard in a long time, but it really pertains to the folks here at the LTA tribe. Don't ever forget your self-worth. So I dedicate this to all of us here because it's true.

Christina Aguilera
Beautiful


Every day is so wonderful
Then suddenly, it's hard to breath
Now and then, I get insecure
From all the pain, I'm so ashamed

I am beautiful no matter what they say
Words can't bring me down
I am beautiful in every single way
Yes, words can't bring me down oh, no
So don't you bring me down today

Mmmm

To all your friends, you're delirious
So consumed in all your doom
Tryin' hard to fill the emptiness
The piece is gone left the puzzle undone
Is that the way it is?

You are beautiful no matter what they say
Words can't bring you down
Oh no, 'cause you are beautiful in every single way
Yes, words can't bring you down, oh no
So don't you bring me down today...

(No matter what we do)
No matter what we do
(No matter what we say)
No matter what we say
(We're the song inside the tune)
Oh yeah (full of beautiful mistakes)

(And everywhere we go)
And everywhere we go
(The sun will always shine)
Sun will always, always, shine
(And tomorrow we might awake on the other side)

'Cause we are beautiful no matter what they say
Yes, words won't bring us down, oh no
We are beautiful in every single way
Yes, words can't bring us down, oh no
So don't you bring me down today

Don't you bring me down, today...

Don't you bring me down, today

And you can see the video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-USUDzycRvM


me-LTA BW


Posts: 2598 | Registered: Aug 2006
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What if our WS never do get better or resolve anything in themselves?

Hefty - then we do have a very difficult choice to make. We can stay in an unsatisfying, painful M and try to take from it what we can and find other ways (no A's mind you) to find satisfaction or we can choose to leave and move on with our lives, whether alone or in the hopes of finding love elsewhere.
I have always told my H and our MC that if I leave, it will not be to find someone else. If I leave, it is because I am ready to be on my own. If then, someone wonderful comes along great, but first I must be sure that I am ready to be alone.
I have seen too many of my friends and family think they are going to go out and find someone who will make them happy only to learn that they replaced one bad partner for another. Nope, as so many on here are saying, we must take care of ourselves. I loved what NAS wrote - Selfish in LTA BS terms = Taking Care of Self. You bet, NAS!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
unabletocope
♀ Member
Member # 11730
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And Happy Birthday OTC!!!!


me-LTA BW


Posts: 2598 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can do it Ukg! BURN THEM!

Erm, no. Not yet. I need to buy a new brazier first. If I donít, I risk setting fire to the fence and then next door! You obviously havenít seen how much there is!! And while I pmíd with some one from wayward yesterday, I found another one!!! Arrrghhh!

Now I feel like he has seen parts of my soul that I would rather he wouldnt.

Sometimes I let him look, and then wish I hadnít. But he canít get into my journal. You wanna see the stuff I write there!!! Blimey!!

We didnt leave them back at the Lodge did we?

Maybe theyíre still out on the lake.

What if our WS never do get better or resolve anything in themselves?

What they have done will never go away. They cannot pretend it didnít happen. If they donít deal with it in the immediate aftermath, they risk losing themselves. They become mannequins without personality or faith. They have to learn and grow, or they will never be able to sustain a deep and meaningful relationship. They will always be looking for something to attach to make them look good in front of a partner. But scratch the surface and there will be emptiness underneath. And it starts all over again. And thatís sad for them, no one else.

Thanks, Able. Not him, not her, but me and mine.

Weíve had some deep discussions here today and I wanna thank you all. I imagine Iíve spent the day in the sun lounge, with my robe and slippers, wandering up to the cake trolley for another slice (thanks OTC, I will) and to the bar for a chilled spritzer, minding my pretty nails, chilling with my friends.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I imagine Iíve spent the day in the sun lounge, with my robe and slippers, wandering up to the cake trolley for another slice (thanks OTC, I will) and to the bar for a chilled spritzer, minding my pretty nails, chilling with my friends.

Oh that scenario sounds just marvelous. Wouldn't it be so great if we could all get together? I can't imagine a more beautiful (or emotional)time. One day (sigh).
Unabletocope - great song and lyrics - thanks for posting another encouraging message to the LTA tribe.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf,

Loved your post, only wishing I heard more of it. We as women really need to realize that we are NOT what we look like.... but it's what is inside us that matters.

We should celebrate who we are every day. I personally am no beauty, but I like me and I am thankful for each and every day that I am here on earth. If my WS is stupid enough to not apreciate me, then it's his loss.

When we choose our friends, we don't go out and look for people that are beautiful in looks... we choose people that share common likes, or those that get us, or touch our hearts in some way.

Some LTA tribe unite... we are all beautiful in our own way. Beautiful, unique, strong, worthy and more than enough!!!

I will be thinking about all of you's as I'm sitting around the campfire tonite. I bet that as I look into the sky at the multitudes of stars, all shapes and sizes, that each will shine in their own beauty.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had a long, long talk with my IC on the phone this morning. I called her to get a referral to another psychiatrist since she questionned whether I was on the right meds for me.

Unfortunately for me I also mentioned I was going to look for another MC, one that specialized in sexual dysfunction in M.

Well, as she said, I need to stop worrying about him. I have to stop catering to everyone and all except myself. She told me to go out today and just spend it on ME. Well, after taking DD to dr., out to work, food shopping, I've got 1 1/2 hours till I'm supposed to be out a dinner with my old work buddies. Yes, that will be fun, but it doesn't matter, to me, it's just time away from him.

She asked me to bring it up in MC that I'm doing everything (he'll say it's because I don't ask) but I'm talking holding everything together emotionally. I'm in IC, on meds, reading, doing him favors and all I ask of him is empathy and he can't or won't give it. She said he knows just how upsetting this news item is to me and yet, he owns none of the cause of why it's upsetting me. He comes home from 4 days away and announces he's sleeping on the couch "for his back". He hasn't had sex with me for almost 6 weeks and it's been months since it wa his idea. He knows that's an issue for me and yet he does it all the time and says "he can't do anything about it." That it's MY problem.

She wants me reading the codependency books again and she said this time, underline everything that you think applies to you and underline all the "cures".

She also said I'm reacting like a trauma victim (now that's why I chose her, she PTSD was supposed to be her niche). So she's going to try EMDR with me next session.

You know I wish it was that I was afraid he's going to cheat on me again, but it's not... it's like BT or numb said It's that I don't think he'll ever know himself and will never be who he pretends to be and he'll disappoint himself and me for the rest of my life.

Scars, stretch marks, baby pooches, lower boobs, butts, etc....ehhh...all outside "normal" proof of living past 35.

And all those would be fine if he hadn't been able to find 50 or 60 women who had no scars, no fat, perfect bodies available to him. If he'd only stuck with me, our bodies could have grown old together without an issue. But he knows what he's missing.

Is my love more important to lose? Sure, I guess so, but how many of us even have said we'd never touch that sugar, salt, fat again and went right back?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Birthday OTC


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you all give me some advice? I am thinking about calling the OW of the last LTA (7 years) to ask her why? Why did she spend 7 years fucking a married man while his loving wife was having his youngest two children? What did she get? What did she want?

Has anyone else done this? Did you get the answers you wanted?

It has been 7 years since they fucked and years since they have even spoken (except for our call to let her know that he had confessed and I knew everything). I know about letting sleeping dogs lie and all that crap but I feel like if I just had one chance to ask her questions, I could move on to another stage in this process.

Ready and waiting for the 2X4s.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS,

I only have a sec, but do NOT call or contact the OW. The reasons against this are many. Do you want to let her back "into" your life? DO you expect her, of all people, to tell you the truth? Believe me, I've had thoughts of contacting OW intermittingly over the past 2 1/2 years. But I think to myself that NC means NC for our whole family. The onlyexception is that I made a deal with OWH that we would contact each other if one of us found out contact between OW and my H had resumed/continued.

Contacting the OW isn't going to make the pain go away and the answers you get may hurt you and may not even be truthful.

Sending you buckets of strength to work through this...
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hefty,one of the benefits of healing our self, will be that we will be able to accept that we have no control over our WS, and if they choosenot to do their work to become part of that healthy relationship, then we will be strong enough to let them go. Not just for our sake, but for our childrens as well.

***
Shirley, what makes you think that she will even tell you the truth?Unless she has done some massive work on herself, her aims will be far from altruistic.

You ask her how she could do it? Her answer will be no different your H. Because she was selfish and only ineterested in getting her needs met and she didnt care about the consequences.
You want her to feel guilt or shame. She might, or she might not. She didnt spend her nights lying awake, wracked with guilt about what she was doing to you or your daughters.And I doubt she does that now.

Further, you are letting her back into your lives. What will the consequences of that be?

HOWEVER, if this is what you feel you need to move on, then go for it. BUT be prepared for the worst.
We are with you regardless.

***
Beautiful words UTC, and great timing!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Further, you are letting her back into your lives.

I am not sure this is true in this case. This affair ended over 7 years ago. She is still married to her H (she was married and had 2 kids when the affair began). She has fought and, apparently, won a battle with breast cancer. When we called her to tell her that he had confessed, she begged my H not to tell her H as they had gone through "massive struggles" around her battle with cancer. They had worked things out and were doing really well.

Also, my H does not want to see her or talk to her. He says the thought of her makes him sick. I do not believe they would reignite this thing.


I guess I just want to know why if she was married (obviously not happily) with two young children, WHY and HOW could she do what she did. It isn't like she was getting treated like a queen. She was getting fucked in the back of a car for god's sake. No letters, no cards, no gifts, no fancy dinners, nothing. Just getting fucked. Why would she do that for 7 years???!!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS I actually ended up having the opportunity to talk with ow as she started contacting me. In the end I didn't and I'm glad I didn't.

NOTHING she will say to you will help you understand how she could do this. NOTHING. You would not have done this, your mind works in a different way, so it is beyond your comprehension, that is why you struggle so with trying to understand it. Part of this path we are all on is getting to the point where you realise that you will never understand it and that you have to just accept it happened. I still shake my head sometimes and sit and wonder how she could do it, H's ow started having sex with him when I was pregnant with our first and carried on throughout another two pregnancies. They accept very little and in fact our discussion today about accepting ourselves and knowing we are enough could apply to ow too. They have such a low opinion of themselves to be able to accept what they do, the crumbs from our table. They have to.

If you pursue the ow in your sitch, you will open new wounds for yourself, not because she gives you any truth (she may or may not) but because it will spread the virus of their infidelity that little bit more inside your brain. She will say something that will make you wonder, make you over analyse, play on your mind for weeks/months/years. It could be an out and out fabrication but it will then be in your brain. Don't not do it because you fear her or what you may find out, but decide against it because as an intelligent, strong woman you know that although the temptation is huge now, it will not serve you in the long term. All I need to know about ow is that for whatever reason, she could do it and so could my H, and that means that I am where I am. For me it is not about whether H would start up the affair again, my decision not to talk to her was about how I wanted to live MY life and who I am, and at the end of the day she does not deserve a place in any part of my life.

Just my two pennethworth.

Anyway as someone above said, whatever you decide, it won't change how we feel about you!

LH, has H had an adverse reaction to what you've written? Does it help him understand your perspective even if it's hard for you to live with? Or do you feel it gives him more ammunition? My H reads on here sometimes, even prints it out sometimes, sometimes he's really amazed at my perspective over something, but that can produce quite a good conversation as long as we keep it to "Wow, I didn't realise you felt that way" Rather than "You are completely wrong"!

Weepy, no-one has a perfect body - no-one! different than yours, yes, but that is as much about how you feel about yours as how he feels. My H talked about my size as an issue at first when he was still foggy, but now that's gone again. I don't know what I'm trying to say to you really, but I find myself wanting to reach out and take your hand and lead you gently and lovingly in another direction. Leave him to his mess Weepy please try and look at yourself and realise what a worthy individual you are and that what he did was not about what he did or didn't have at home, it was about him and still is. Look back at some of your posts last week and see some of the progress that seemed to take place. What was different last week? It seemed from your posts, and I may be wrong, but it seemed that it was you, thinking of Weepy and getting on with YOU. It's so strange because I know this is what I need to do too, but it's so much easier to see it in someone else isn't it?

By the way thanks FNF for your post, it really resounded with me. I'm not there yet, but I feel I will be one day, it's a matter of time.



Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She was getting fucked in the back of a car for god's sake. No letters, no cards, no gifts, no fancy dinners, nothing. Just getting fucked. Why would she do that for 7 years???!!!

Why.....Because she could.

And to her, it felt more than just "crotch-good."
Someone other than her husband desired her hoory ass, even if ONLY for illicit sex.
These OW are more horny for attention then even the sex. But the "act" represents "attention."

Your story illustrates just what a woman who is truly a slutty piece of trash will do....and it was testimony to her lack of standards and her meaningingless.
Yes, 7 years of being just "a piece" in the sleazy squalor of a car's back-seat.

Don't waste your time, Shirley...it.... and she isn't worth it.
As you said....her role was merely as a "hole."

Why did she do it?? Because she told herself for whatever reasons (which are not for you to clutter your mind with)..that being a back-seat whore would give her whatever it was she needed /wanted.

You are so far removed from that mentality......leave it and her, back in the garbage filled dumpster by the parking lot.

Been there, Shirley...it just isn't worth it.

Hugs

[This message edited by numb and scared at 5:24 PM, March 13th (Thursday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



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