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User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I said, he can be very mean when threatened

Fnf, my H as well.
And whats even sadder for me, is that I have become that way as well. Before I tried to live by the adage "If you have nothing nice to say..."but now, when we get into it, all my venom comes out.I have learnt to fight like with like.And it makes me ashamed.

And Weepy, you asked why I said not to share with your H...for the exact same reason. My H uses it as ammunition. He has come very close to breaking me several times over the past year by saying things that I had confided in him but which he twists to his own purpose.

Its just that I know our h's share some similarities and I dont want you to put yourself in a vulnerable position. You are being so brave delving into yourself...I would so hate it if your H said anything to bring that to a halt, KWIM?

***
Run, thanks for posting BT's post. I seldom wander into the WForum.

My H had different coats too. I used to think that he was ashamed of me which is why he kept us so far away from his work (This is still an issue with me, btw)
He wouldnt even keep our picture on his desk and over the years I grew accustomed to the fact that we were soemthing to be hidden.

The thing is, he didnt wear all his coats equally. His work coat of which his A-coat was a part of, was his main one, and the rest were his quick changes. That hurt to say that but its true: the kids and I were his quick changes.

Whereas for me, being a wife and a mother were almost all of me. And even though he was hardly a part of their lives, I made sure that I kept him very alive for the kids.

Ironically, now he seems to wear his F and H coat more often than not, whilst being a W and M will always be a major part of me, I am trying to develop another aspect now.

I used to wonder how when the kids were desp ill and he would go to work and not call at all to find out how they were. Yet when I am at work now, I still remember him and them.
Did that come out right?

Fnf, it is difficult for us to grasp because we wear all our coats all the time.In fact for us its just one coat with different strands woven together.

I understand that that was what they (WS) did, but I cant understand HOW.

***
This reminds me of something I am having a bit of difficulty understanding at work.

The flirting between people who are married. I have been trying to mind my own business but it truly gets on my nerves. I want to stand up and whack them with my stapler.The big one.
IC said that I should stay out of it and that unfort thats how people with poor esteem do carry on at work, but that doesnt mean they would have an A. But thats how its starts!
What is wrong with these people? How can they be talking about getting easter eggs for their kids in one breath, and then in the next, start openly flirting, for eg lady says to gent "Do you think i need to put on more weight? I think my bum is too small.What do you think? Men like more meat right?" whilst posing in the "appropiate" ways; and then gent goes "Oh you shouldnt worry. You have a lovely body. Very nice."


I wish I could tape them all and then send the tape to their spouses!

I know being a BS has made me more sensitive to this, I would have prob rolled my eyes before and minded my own business, but now...
Who knows? H could have had the same conversation at his work.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That and all the advice about caring for ourselves first. And truly accepting that I have no control over the future, and truly accepting that the past is actually what happened and not to be "done over"--all help me some.

But there is still that kernel of me that is afraid to act too happy--like if I do, it means that H can relax, that I'm okay, that the enormity of what was done and how I felt/feel isn't as enormous now!!

That describes me to a T! We are away on holiday (often interrupted by H's cell phone Re: business). He is being attentive and affectionate but just like FnF said:
It seems like every time I start to feel good about us I get kicked in the head. I feel like I'm better off keeping my distance and not letting him see that I just might be feeling good about where we are.
Tomorrow we will be with family and extended family who are unaware our situation and our DS@ & DD who know... I feel we are being watched to see how we are doing. It's uncomfortable. Makes it so difficult to believe that my H is being honest with me. Why the doubts after a year? is this R or just the same old day in-day out habit?
Run - thanks for bringing that over to our forum. Beautifully written, BT. I have so much trouble understanding how comparmentalization works - it is so foreign to how I function in life.
Ditto! I can't say it any better. Thanks so much. I learn so much from the posts here. love and Happy Easter to all.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why the doubts after a year? is this R or just the same old day in-day out habit?

It is what it is.
Its ONLY been a year, LostS. Cut yourself some slack, woman!
Yes, your family will be watching. I will be going through the same on Sunday night. The only way I can handle it is to put on what Ukg calls my "Guest Personality".
That everything is ok, that H is ok, the kids are ok, the whole world is ok, we are ALL ok.
Nobody wants to know whats really going on, and nobody can really understand it.

Ouch. Did that come out a bit ventish? Sorry.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Run:

I don't know how people can compartmentalize like that, I really don't. I can't fathom that way of thinking in much the same way that I can't fathom how people can hold the exact opposite political views from me. But I do believe that they can and do, and I believe people can and do compartmentalize their lives.

I think WS also compartmentalize their values. That's why you see people like Spitzer who can believe himself to be an upholder of integrity and still go out buying whores. It's like integrity is in the professional compartment, but not in the personal/marriage compartment. Somehow it is OK to lie and cheat a spouse, but doing the same to a partner or to clients or constiuents would be completely unacceptable.

One of the ways my H stopped compartmentalizing was to talk about his other compartments everywhere. He now talks about me and the kids at work, and about work at home. Willard Harley talks about a man having to open the doors to all the separate rooms of his life and allowing his wife into all of them. I would go a little bit further. I think a WS has to renovate his life and move from a traditional to an open floor plan so that there aren't separate rooms anymore. but I am kind of radical, so probably an open-door policy is enough for most people.

I think compartmentalizing in marriage is a form of hiding, and people generally hide because they are ashamed or embarrassed of their actions or more likely of what they are at a deep level. It's risky to be seen, really seen. Especially by someone who is smart and together and all the things you would like to be but fear you're not.

I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop. I hope this answered your question at least a little bit, run. I know it's pretty frightening to understand that your spouse thought this way, but the first step in changing anything is recognizing the need to.

bt


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BorrowTrouble- I really like you post on compartmentalizing. My WS has some big issues locked in the closet that she speaks to nobody about.

I just wish somebody would give me the damn key or a sledgehammer to renovate.


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ouch. Did that come out a bit ventish? Sorry.
No... you just stated the truth. I did the 'guest' personality at Christmas which resulted in major meltdown in January so I'm probably trying to avoid one when I get home Wednesday.
Thanks for the response. Weekends, esp. holiday wkends, are always slow. and I'm stealing time while family is watching tv.
{{{LTA}}}wherever you are

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He wouldnt even keep our picture on his desk

I've told you before my H took our pictures out of his wallet during the A. I accused him of not being able to see his children's faces as he reached into his wallet for the $100 bill.

Yesterday when he got his desk at work, he told me he needed supplies and pictures! So today I searched for a picture of each kid... with me standing with each of them. I bought him a double frame and left it on the bed for him to take to work on Monday.

I've already talked to his boss once or twice and I intend to talk to the office staff about the benefits packages when he becomes eligible in 90 days. I will not remain in the shadows ever again.

I look at my crazy SIL who calls her H like 3 times when he takes his walks and think... nope, he'll never have one minute to be unfaithful. SHe makes sure she's in his life every single minute. SHe's at his office daily with one or more of the kids. Knows everyone there. Calls around to the family if he's been gone more than like a half hour without checking in. If he takes the kids to basketball, she compares his story of the game with the kid's.

It's not that she's worried about where he is or what he's doing, she's just crazy.

Oh, he may kill her, but he'll never get a chance to cheat on her.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:29 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's risky to be seen, really seen. Especially by someone who is smart and together and all the things you would like to be but fear you're not

BT, mmmm..I dunno about this one. In that case, I would have obtained a doctorate in compartmentalising.

But I love the analogy of the open plan living. Thats something all couples should aim for regardless of infidelity.

***

I just wish somebody would give me the damn key or a sledgehammer to renovate.

Its not your life to renovate, Hefty. But I hear what you are saying.

***

I will not remain in the shadows ever again

Yay Weepy!!!
You know what..it was his bday recently, wasnt it? Why dont you take him down to the studio and get a smart professional photo of you two done? Cheesy I know, but hey, what the heck right?

***
LostS, good luck with the family/friend get together.
Every now and then, lock yourself up in the bathroom for about 5 minutes.Do some relaxation excercises like deep breathing, or just take some time to get your "face" in place again.It will help towards not crashing later on.They might think you have bladder problem but...


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:47 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe I need some help, more like good thoughts.I dont know what I need.

Female problem so guys can leave now.

I have suffered from heavy painful periods for a long time. When I was pg with youngest DD, drs adviced that I couldnt go through another pg (it would be my 4th c/s)and either me or H had to be sterilised. They preferred H to do it as they thought the me having a tubal ligation would make the bleeding worse.

H refused, wouldnt even consider it. When I went in for the c/s, we were asked again, and he still refused, so I had the tubal done then. And the bleeding did get worse.

Fast fwd 2 years later to Au, I had collapsed, had a d&c done and dr now advised for me to have a hysterectomy. I was 32. I refused. My mum had that done when she was 34 and it led to all sorts of complications. So I opted to medicate to manage sypmtoms.

I managed that fine for the last 4 years but since last year, it started getting bad again. Then in Sept I discovered a lump. I didnt tell anyone. My mum was diagnosed with ovarian cancer the year before, and I ...I guess I just couldnt deal with anything else on top of the A's.

However I did speak to GP about it in Feb, only becasue I didnt want it to affect my job. Last week I found 2 more lumps. Saw a consultant on Thurs and she is going to have me scanned in 6 weeks. She cant say what the lumps are, but given my mum's sitch...
And she also said that I dont have many options for the bleeding, not even the hysterectomy, as I have had 4 c/s, and the walls will be very thin.

I am scared.
I am angry with H. Why did he have to be so selfish and not get sterilied then? For crying out loud, I went through so much with ALL the pgs, and the ONE thing he could have done for us, he didnt.I might have ended in the same sitch even if he did, but maybe I wouldnt.

I am scared, did I mention that?
I am going to be 36 years old in a few weeks. My life is just starting to come together again. Please please dont let this be anything serious.

I cant tell anyone IRL because... I cant take any more pity.
And H thinks I should just forget about it until the appt. He doesnt understand how much I am freaking out.

Thank you for letting me say this out.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((LH))) Have you spoken to your IC about this? Have you really not told anyone? Sorry bit of sympathy coming. You poor thing on top of everything else. You really don't need this.

I'm going to agree with your H for once (don't fall off your chair) I think you probably do need to just try and put this out of your mind until the scan. I know it's not easy, but until they actually take a look there is no telling what it is. It might be fibroids, cysts all horrible things but not ovarian cancer.

Given your history, if you made a bit of noise could they move your scan up a bit? I would phone the secretary to the consultant at the hospital and have a crying fit and tell her your story (ie. your mum's sitch and whatever else you want to) and see if they can move you up. The NHS always says they can't do anything but I've found if you make enough noise it is amazing what can happen. They do get cancellations and your case would be urgent I would have thought with your background.

Use a bit of that anger LH and get them to hear you so that they do something about it. (Although of course you need to be sweet as pie to their faces!)

One thing about your H's decision; you are right it was selfish of him, but look at the man he was during his affairs. In a way his decision is now explained, it wasn't because he didn't care enough about you (like you may have thought in the past) it is because he was just so so selfish. It's another thing to be angry about, but hopefully he would not make the same decision now. Would he? (maybe he would in your opinion?) Have you ever talked about his decision in relation to this?

Hopefully you will discover that whatever it is, is benign and has nothing to do with your tubes being tied.

(Having just had the IVF drugs I can tell you that cysts full of water on the ovaries can feel like huge lumps I was really amazed).

((LH))


Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks mum.

You are right. I should just push it to the back for now.
I am ok with waiting (no not a delaying tactic ).It works out fine with my cycle and its also when this particular consultant is on.I really liked her. Very straight upfront and knows her stuff.And open to my thoughts as well.I dont want to lose her.

And no, i havent told anyone else.
Pride I guess.

Before dday, my family had this view of me: the together-capable-dependent one.All that flew out out of the window when I just went to pieces after dday.I know I am looked at with pity, disappointment and sometimes disbelief.I have become the bad sheep.With me getting the job etc, it seems like I am earning some of their respect back, am becoming more like the daughter/sister they thought I was. My mum calls every other day to ask me about work. We have something to talk about finally. All other topics have become danger zones.The other day she told me how proud she is of me.

I dont want to be the fuckup again. I know, I know that this doesnt mean that...but if it is something bad, its like I am jinxed.
You know?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wishing all the tribe blessings.

Lost, sent you a PM.

Mum, that is wonderful news about your sister. Thinking how wise this new soul is to pick you both to be an intergral part of his or her journey this lifetime.

Shirley,
You know you are amazing, don't you? Hugs and more hugs to you.

Thinking of all the sisters and brother here.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


{{{LostHeart}}}

Sending prayers your way, and loving thoughts.

"Let sleeping dogs lie.." A very wise woman once told me that, and she was right. Don't worry until there is something to worry about.

LTA tribe, I believe in the power of prayer and unfortunately we are a large group, but if we ALL sent up our thoughts and prayers for LT, it couldn't hurt. OK.... everyone pray!!!


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you.
(happy)


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Lost Heart)))) I don't think anyone would blame for being scared. My gosh, you are human.... I will say a little extra prayer for you.

Mum, Congrats on the news! What a truly unselfish thing for you to do and a beautiful gift for your sis!

Hefty, Hang in there, friend. I can't remember if it was you who was asking if this really does get better. I can tell you that it DOES get better. 2 1/2 years out and I am truly feeling some joy again. And I am finally coming out of my protective shell and letting my FWH in. It actually feels good and scary at the same time.

HUGS to all..
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Sodown
♀ Member
Member # 2477
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jumping in on this thread but havent' read much in in yet. I am wondering what is the longest running affair that anyones WS has had here? My last d-day was in november of last year, H of course is still in denial stage of it. Says i am not hearing her name but he or whomever else mentions it is saying something else, Oh the gaslighting is horrific. I know what I hear. Don't know if the big scrathes down his back were the lta OW or someone else. I know he didn't fall into a fricken bush like he tried to have me believe though. How they can live two completly separate lives, I haven't a clue as to how they sleep at night and can live with this on their conscience, unless they dont' have one when it comes to us BS?

How did your spuouse explain that to you when they were found out? How can they live with themselves knowing full well that they are decieving their spouse each day and lying their ass off to protect themselves and OP for years on end?


A dog will not tell you he has fleas but you can tell by the way he scratches. Graham Willets (Thanks to Treharris Mid Glamorgan)

Posts: 4797 | Registered: Oct 2003 | From: anywhere but here...
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did your spuouse explain that to you when they were found out? How can they live with themselves knowing full well that they are decieving their spouse each day and lying their ass off to protect themselves and OP for years on end?


All my H could say was he didn't think about it. He couldn't think about it. He did tell me he felt suicidal at times about it and justified at others.


For me, looking back on that time, I can see where he wasn't really "here" most of the time. However, the men in his family have a tendency to withdraw from stressful situations or noisy situations and I just attributed it to that.

The question I asked was "How did you reconcile who you were with who you became?" He said he hadn't at that point. But since he forgave himself months ago, guess that means he never will figure it out.



Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know how most of us have found that things weren't as "bad" as we imagined? That finding out the truth, we found our imaginations were worse than reality?

Well, I made a huge mistake and taped the 20/20 program last night on prostitution in america. My reality is worse than my imagination.

It's been a curiosity for me since the beginning, but I knew I'd never go down to Chinatown and see the actual women or places he went. So this program took us to the only state with legal prostitution... Nevada. Went right in with cameras, talked to the girls and the johns and it was worse than I imagined.

I turned the program off. I know I'll finish watching it some day and make myself sick with it.

Why? What am I looking for? The reason? The reason is obvious. They're beautiful, sexual, talented women. No one there felt any stigma, none of the girls were ashamed, they were proud of what they could do, even appeared nervous about not being chosen from the lineup. That THEIR self esteem took a hit when that happened.

But it was just as I pictured it. And the rooms weren't dirty little hole in the walls, the girls weren't "matter of fact" and business like, once the money was out of the way, they were kind and gentle and sexy and I am just so freaked out. They even said they will kiss the clients, as long as it's not deep spit swapping. She said all the girls do, it makes it more "normal" for the guy.



Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, yes it is hard for me to fathom that people don't think like me too.

I read in "Steering Clear" that these men don't listen to the hard questions in their minds while they are on the slippery slope (i.e., "What are you doing?"). My H pushed those questions right out--wouldn't allow the answers to come. I can't grasp this. I'm always asking the "what if?", so much so that it can be debilitating and I won't do something (even something insignificant) out of fear of a consequence. It's hard to think he wouldn't even listen to the question! The book suggests in recovery that these men listen and answer the hard questions--obviously.

(BTW, those of you who aren't reading "Steering Clear", it really is worth the read.)

((((((((((((Lost))))))))))))

I hope you can not worry until you have to. I am not that kind of person. I would make myself sick about it. (Just another thing to work on. ) But I'll be hoping that you can.

I have to say, though, that your H's selfishness really rubs me wrong. My H dragged his heals in having the V (and we all know the result of THAT! ), but I'd sure like to think that if the doctor had told me I would suffer more if I had a procedure done, that he would have stepped up. But hey--who knows what THAT man would have done back then. What does your H say now? Is he apologetic at all? It's just hard to fathom such selfishness in anyone. Lost, how compassionate is he to other people? When he hears about tragedies or illnesses, does he feel empathy for the people involved?

Its not your life to renovate, Hefty.

Lost, you continue to amaze me with how far you've come.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost, also hope you can not worry, "compartmentalize" it til you get the scan--my thoughts are with you.

Please try not to think of yourself as a fuckup, BTW--you're not, just living a life you never expected. Keep posting--we're all rooting for you.


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
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