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User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Shirley,

I too struggled a lot with the idea of having made life and career-altering decisions (including moving across the fucking world) under what amounted to false pretenses. It's a bitch of a thing to get over. But, as always, yes, time does help. As does a really good, long, burning bout of therapeutic rage.

But I do think there comes a point (you're not there yet) where you have to step back and differentiate between rightful anger that accomplishes something for you and the kind that becomes sour grapes. You do need to struggle with this and rage and talk about it a lot, because it isn't going away on its own.

I'm also not at all trying to minimize what you're feeling--BTDT--but to put it bluntly, your past is your past. And if you live with him for the rest of your life or throw him out tomorrow, it doesn't and can't change the choices that were made. At some point you have to focus on the good things that have come out of your life together and what your future can hold, either together or separately.

UKgirl,

There should be: No use of unnecessary words. No full stops in the middle of a line. No over extended lines. Questioned the use of “and”

Oh, my. All that education and he's still clinging to such rote, grammar text-narrowed concepts?

I thought your poem was incredible. Seriously, if you aren't published, you should be working on it.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I'm just trying to shine the light on the next part of the path. I was waiting and praying for anger from you, and you are there.

But I do think there comes a point (you're not there yet) where you have to step back and differentiate between rightful anger that accomplishes something for you and the kind that becomes sour grapes. You do need to struggle with this and rage and talk about it a lot, because it isn't going away on its own.

I'm also not at all trying to minimize what you're feeling--BTDT--but to put it bluntly, your past is your past. And if you live with him for the rest of your life or throw him out tomorrow, it doesn't and can't change the choices that were made. At some point you have to focus on the good things that have come out of your life together and what your future can hold, either together or separately.

BT and Brooke - yes sometimes it does take a sledgehammer, perhaps a velvet-coated sledgehammer, to get through to me. I may be bright but I am stubborn as all getout. I am definitely the type to cut off my nose to spite my face - but you all already knew that didn't you!

I see BT trying to light the path forward and I see Brooke trying to drag me out of the past. How about I promise to look at the good side of things for just today. Can't promise how long I can hold if for but maybe for just today.

Thanks for your words of wisdom. You may want to keep them handy for when I sit my donkey butt back down and start braying about my past!


geez - what happened to my typing skills?

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 9:40 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Shirley,

I've wondered a few times why so many of your posts resonate with me, and it occurred to me this morning that it might be partly because there are so few LTA WS's who seem to actually get it. And as odd as it sounds, I think being married to a LTA WS who does, is not without its own set of problems.

In my experience, it can make certain parts of recovery harder. And one of them is the anger. It's so hard to find the line on what's appropriate anger when the WS is doing everything possible to make it up to you and unflinchingly walking the agonizing path of facing up to themselves and their actions.

So I guess I'm not really meaning it in a "look at the bright side" way, but more in a yes, you need to have your very appropriate anger and be able to express it, but don't don't let it sabotage you in the end way. And at some point, expending too much energy on paths, taken or not, that can't be changed is only going to sap your emotional well-being as much as his.

Does that make any sense at all?


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brooke - it makes complete sense. Rationally, I know that maybe I am one of the "lucky' ones with a very, very remorseful WS who is doing everything in his power to change and to help me. I also know, rationally, that I cannot change the past. But then this tsunami of anger washes over me that makes me want to jump up and down over and over and over screaming "but it's just not fair - I didn't know - I didn't choose this".

I think one of the reasons that it took a while for the anger to hit is I was spending a little TOO much time looking at this rationally. Saying to myself "I have a good life and three nice kids and he isn't fucking around anymore and he could be a good husband, blah, blah, blah". I didn't take the time to hate his guts for what he had done for me. I hadn't fully grasped the level of betrayal and just how incredibly selfish a person has to be to make all of another adults decisions for them without their knowledge.

I am not sure why but it all hit me about a month ago and I have been in the dark, angry place since then.

Can you tell me more about the path forward for yourself with your remorseful H. What did you do (or not do) differently? Does it affect healing differently?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


UKgirl,

Stunning poem...!!!

As for editing by "anyone"....no one has the right to rearrange your truth and perspective. And surely, not even him.

Welcome to the newbies. So sorry you are here but very glad you found the place where LTA's are the main topic. It helps to speak with native tongues..

Shirley,

Anger can be your friend right now. If nothing else it is "energy".....but it also can distract you from those few blessed elements in your life. Those precious things that no one, and no A, can take from you.

Hoping you can readily find those little windows of fresh air "for self."

((shirley))))


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ladies, I know I grouse and moan about how much my H doesn't get it. How his fears and refusal to look within himself set my anger pot to boilin'. Which then sets off the "what the hell am I trying to do? who the hell am I kidding here?" drama.

And although so much of our stories are different, the bits and pieces that are the same are what bind us. Our past, our present and our future paths all.

Although my H has refused to look past the "I was a POS, no-good loser who ran away from the people he loved for nothing worthwhile." At least he knows that. He doesn't think he is that POS loser any more. I don't think he's ever going to examine his childhood and see why he chose what he did, it's enough that he knows that I'm not the mother figure in his life any more. He doesn't see me that way any more. Even when I find myself going in that direction.

And now that I've found myself rambling and completely off the path of where I was going I'll try and retrieve a little sense out of this....

The thing is that no matter what their level of "getting it". All of these spouses have (with some backsliding her and there) recommitted to this M. They don't want it to end. They are taking the brunt of our tirades and tears. They aren't walking away saying "I don't have to take this any more." They know they do, until...whenever. They hate that we decide when "whenever" is, but I think they know that's the deal.

My H and I aren't working on affair stuff. I will always have unanswered questions and sometimes that will bother me. Things will trigger me, probably more because I don't know for sure and can no longer believe anything he says about that time.

He is a great one to put things away and forget about them, bad things and good things, things he's done for sure, and things I've done to him, sometimes it's even mundane things. So when I ask him what he remembers about a certain event, there might be one thing he remembers, and I remember it all. This didn't used to bother me, now it does.

He has a "tone". A condemning tone, a judgemental tone, that I used to write off as simply him being negative, cynical. Now it sounds like he's a hypocrit.

And I hear him "shaming" me for not living up to his ideal of who I am... that I shouldn't get angry, sad, that I don't "think" right (meaning his way). He makes me feel like I have to justify my existence and I didn't before... because before I was supporting HIM. I had my reason for living, to make his life easier. Now I've apparently lost my purpose. And I've apparently lost IQ points too.

So not only do I have to figure out if I can go forward with someone who in the past has hurt me, disrespected me, broken every promise he ever made, I also have to decide if this guy has other personality or character issues that will make it impossible to do.

So I would say for the last 6 months I've been trying to concentrate on that. And THAT's what is causing all the problems right now. The affairs are over. Have been for 6 years now. He's not acting the way he is because he's sleeping with someone else. He's acting this way because that's who he is.

And maybe if I had BT's H who was fun to be around, who shared my interests, who managed to find the ability to empathize and find gratitude for all his blessings, I wouldn't still be here or in therapy.

I know this was long, but the message was supposed to be... look at who they are now for a while, try not to run everything through the affair filter.

How about I promise to look at the good side of things for just today.

or just look at this minute, this hour, with no past, no expecatations for the future. Good or Bad, just look at now.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is why I don't come here often-I get all caught up in things and don't get any work done .

ETA: In response to HurtShirley's post:

I hope I'm not sounding for a second like I'm implying that it's easier not to have a remorseful spouse, because it's definitely not, but I am saying it makes the anger thing a whole lot simpler.

In my own case, I think the path forward for us hasn't been all that different from yours, it just started longer ago. One of the things I think I'm surmising from your posts is that you're pretty much a type A personality with a type A career. You're used to blasting through things and getting them done (not to mention having a pretty good chance of exerting some control over the outcome). I've never been able to abide yoga. All that deep breathing and centered-ness just irritates me, I'd way rather be out running. It took me a while to figure out that recovering from an LTA was a whole hell of a lot more like yoga than running and that I was going to have to go against my natural inclinations and learn to do a little deep breathing.

Some of the best advice I got from my IC was that I was going to have to spend some time just standing still and letting my H and my marriage change around me. To have faith that in time as my H's process and progress continued, my own thoughts and feelings would become clea. I don't know that I really believed it at the time, but it did and it has.

There are still bad days and times, but it looks different. And for what it's worth, the scale of the betrayals in your case is pretty enormous. I think it's going to take you a good, long time to get past it. I remember the tsunami of rage very well, that's a perfect description. I remember days when it was like I could feel the heat of the fury rising through my body when the wave rolled over me. I can't remember when you had your truth dump, but it seems to me you're at a pretty normal stage for the rage to be hitting.

Honestly, you just have to live through it and express it and you both have to accept that it will be your companion for quite a few more days or months or years. And if you're apart, you'll have that plus feelings about your children living with divorce because of what he's done. Which is not to say you should stay with him, just to point out, for those moments when you want to cram papers down his throat right then and there, that you'll still have the anger along with a whole other set of issues. In other words, together or apart, there's no shortcut.

My H's IC gave us some helpful advice about anger, that the trick is not to wait for it to go away, but to integrate it. To accept that it's part of our relationship now and talk about it, not stuff it away and wait for the day it's gone.

I've also found that with the right work on the part of your H, the fury at the sense of entitlement that allowed them to do this while assuming you'd still be there does fade. Honestly.

[This message edited by brooke4 at 11:08 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


So not only do I have to figure out if I can go forward with someone who in the past has hurt me, disrespected me, broken every promise he ever made, I also have to decide if this guy has other personality or character issues that will make it impossible to do.

And maybe if I had BT's H who was fun to be around, who shared my interests, who managed to find the ability to empathize and find gratitude for all his blessings, I wouldn't still be here or in therapy.

I think that really is the crux of it, Weepy. Finding that balance between what they've done and who they are and what both things say about them really is at the heart of moving forward in our healing.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the things I think
I'm surmising from your posts is that you're pretty much a type A personality with a type A career. You're used to blasting through things and getting them done (not to mention having a pretty good chance of exerting some control over the outcome).

Who told?!!! Is there a Type A+ personality? Your advice sounds very similar to something UK girl said when this anger phase started about 6 weeks ago. She said I was trying to swim back to shore against the riptide and I was just exhausting myself.

I guess you (and of course others) have picked up on is that the scale of the betrayal is so enormous that the normal 2-5 years for recovery is not necessarily a good estimate in my case. I just can't imagine spending 5+ years on this not knowing. But, I guess, whether I go forward with him or not, I have to try to recover. So one step at a time.

Weepy,

I agree with you about looking at them now. I think that is a great way to think of it. You are far enough along that the rage isn't turning your eyes red so you can *see* your H for who is now. I don't think I am there yet but I will remember your words if, and when, I do get to that point.

Ed: change is => isn't.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 11:29 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See and this is what f'ng confuses the hell outta me... he just sent me this text message

Miss you. Can't call. Wish I could hear your voice, hear you laugh. I love you.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just can't imagine spending 5+ years on this not knowing.


One of the most important lessons I have learned from IC is that the state of "not knowing" is permanent. My previous belief that I had a firm handle on where my life was going was a delusion. To one degree or another, we always live with uncertainty.

We never know, we cannot control. We merely take our best shot. We leave, we stay, we chose one road and skip over the next, there will always be some degree of not knowing. Every decision we make forces other decisions and therefore other uncertainty. There is no endpoint to it. Learning to see that ambiguity and uncertainty and not be controlled by the fear of it was a real hard lesson for me. It is hard to feel safe in a world where nothing is absolute or certain. And that is the world we live in when we choose to live with other people.

Brooke, those were some great thought-provoking posts today. I enjoyed reading them.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 1:30 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a remorseful FWH. But in MC a couple of weeks ago, I said part of the anger was b/c he wouldn’t rise to the bait. He’d just roll over and say, yep, you’re right, I’m a pos, I was wrong, it wasn’t justifiable and I treated you unfairly. I am sorry and accept responsibility for everything, including the holocaust, 9/11, and Ethiopia. I said it was like punching jelly. Totally unsatisfying and enraged me even more! I want him to say he hated his life with me at the time, I want him to say he was too weak to leave me, I want him to say he loved her, I do not want him like that ineffectual, useless Gerry in Sliding Doors pathetically unable to say no to his “Lydia”

Weepy, have you put that to your H? How does he see your reason for living and how does he see his own? But living in the now is fine. Just fine. It’s YOUR now. I have reclaimed “now”. His now was right now, this minute, can’t wait, don’t think. When he was in the affair, that was “now”. Now it’s “then” and he thinks that makes a difference. But it doesn’t b/c this “now” will be “then” in five yrs time. His perspective of “now” and “then” is somehow skewed. Does that make sense? At all???

Brooke

I've also found that with the right work on the part of your H, the fury at the sense of entitlement that allowed them to do this while assuming you'd still be there does fade.

And that’s why he’ll never have my complete trust again and he will never have all of me again. As I said in MC last night, he took me for granted. He took it as read that I would be here. I hate that feeling. Little bits of my shattered heart that he picked up and snapped into tinier bits. Hate it.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he’ll never have my complete trust again and he will never have all of me again

I know that this is not a very popular opinion in some quarters, but I think many WS have affairs because they knew exactly this -- that they had all of us. In fact, I think that is part of why they chose us as their spouses to begin with, because they knew that we were loyal TO A FAULT. And the fault here, of course, is that our loyalty to them trumped our loyalty to ourselves. And our love for them trumped our love for ourselves.

I've come to believe that the wisest words in the bible are the ones that admonish us to love our neighbors AS ourselves. It is a sentiment that is repeated in almost every major religion. For good reason.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 1:40 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT. So is this where our counsellors and therapists and psychologists tell us that our WS didn’t love themselves?

FWH says he was at a “low point” (I won’t make the obvious jibe). He wasn’t looking for something OW could give him, he was looking for something missing from within himself. I do think he had me on some sort of pedestal at that time. He would refer to me as perfect and saintly and good (which I’m not, as y’all know!!!) and maybe felt he wasn’t worthy of me which in turn made him feel even less love for himself. OW gave him the lift he was seeking. i.e. he was worthy of love – she regularly told him how much she loved him and what a wonderful guy he was and how lucky they were to have found each other again. Yet, ironically, that put him even further away from me – who he professed to truly love.

I think this is too much for me to tangle with. I need to eat. Gone 8 here and I’ve only had a banana and a bag of crisps today.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:08 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wasn't even thinking about his side of it, UK. I was thinking about my side of it. That I didn't love myself enough.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So many great posts it's hard to know where to begin.
UKgirl - your poetry is amazing and beautiful - your H must be a class A fucktard to think he had the right to critique the words which exposed your deepest feelings. It is an example of how easily these men can distance themselves emotionally by intellectualizing something so extraordinary and so raw.
His loss indeed!
BT - I keep reading and re-reading your post about putting the past to rest. I'm getting better at it but I am 2 years and 3 months out and still tormenting myself with the whys and the hows of his LTA. I also torment myself with questions of why I wasn't more aggressively addressing the problems in our M - the lack of sex, the lack of communication, the lack of quality time together.
Shirley mentioned that she did fight for what she believed she deserved but to no avail. I did too for years and then one day I stopped fighting him and chose to lead a life quite separate from my H. We led parallel lives that only came together on occasion and honestly I felt during those years that this was a satisfactory solution. As I told my MC, I had two choices (assuming of course that D was not an option for me with 3 small children) - one to stay and bemoan my H's lack of attention and care or two, look to myself and see what I needed in order to find happiness and contentment in my life with him simply as an additional asset if and when he chose to engage in our M. Our C told me I chose the healthiest option. And for many years this seemed to work for me. Until d-day! I don't often torment myself with the what-ifs - what if I had insisted on MC'ing, sex C'ing, quality time, etc. But I do torment myself with the Hows and Whys. How could he come home and kiss me and tell me he loved me after fucking her? How could he not see the damage he would do to us and to our children? Why didn't he care enough for me and our children to want to give us his love, care and devotion?
The one question that I continually ask and search an answer to is, Who was this person who was capable of such utter deceit and how can I be sure he no longer exists?
I accept that we can't change the past but I'm not sure that that means we shouldn't attempt to understand the past and to learn from it. I know that's not what you're trying to say but until I can feel that something substantial has been learned from his actions during those years, and from my own actions, I don't think I will be ready to move on.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great dialogue here today.

Some of the best advice I got from my IC was that I was going to have to spend some time just standing still and letting my H and my marriage change around me.

One of the most important lessons I have learned from IC is that the state of "not knowing" is permanent. My previous belief that I had a firm handle on where my life was going was a delusion. To one degree or another, we always live with uncertainty.

We never know, we cannot control. We merely take our best shot. We leave, we stay, we chose one road and skip over the next, there will always be some degree of not knowing. Every decision we make forces other decisions and therefore other uncertainty. There is no endpoint to it. Learning to see that ambiguity and uncertainty and not be controlled by the fear of it was a real hard lesson for me. It is hard to feel safe in a world where nothing is absolute or certain. And that is the world we live in when we choose to live with other people.

I know that is key to recovering from a lot of things--not just LTAs. As you all know, I'm fiercely codependent (would like to be recovered), and control (or should I say "my illusion of control") is how I function--how I maintain my equilibrium.

How does one learn to stand still and "let" things happen? Yes, even though on is not really "making" things happen, how do you get rid of the "illusion" that you are in control of the outcome?

How do you actually LET.GO?
More books???


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It wasn’t a case of not loving myself enough, I thought I was okay. But I never thought I was enough for him. Always looking for reasons for him to not love me. And now I see part of that comes from being a “middle” child and a twin. I have an older brother, older sister (she shining starlet to black sheep) and a twin brother, younger by 30mins. We are summer born, so also youngest in year at school. He was smaller and, initially, weaker, although we were good weights at birth. Then my Dad was sick with more kidney stones. So my Mum had four kids and a H who was not expected to see 40. Or 35, actually. And I failed 11+ and, apparently 13+. But I got my qualifications and got my teaching too. So perhaps not at stupid as I had assumed. By then the damage was done, I guess. Little parental input as an infant (understandable!!), left to grow up (ditto), schooling weak (not parents fault) and, somehow, I picked up a tall, dark, handsome, intelligent, witty, generous and lovingly tactile bloke. My parents thought he was wonderful. And still do. They don’t know about his FOO issues or our infidelity crisis. My siblings might if they have read my FriendsRU recently.

Upshot. I don’t love myself and never have. I have never been enough for him or my children or my parents. I have something missing. Superficially, I am strong, directional, calm. In a crisis, a rock. Only my FWH knows now just how fragile I am. It took his infidelity to rip away the surface and expose what was underneath. I hate him for that. My vulnerability. My stupidity. It’s what will drive a wedge between us in the end if I don’t get to value myself

FNF. He has learned from this catastrophe. But it’s the length of time of his affair. He keeps saying that putting it together, it was not that long. But he was surprised at the number of times I could prove. He didn’t think it was that many. It was boxed away.

Some of the best advice I got from my IC was that I was going to have to spend some time just standing still and letting my H and my marriage change around me.

I love that idea. I don’t have to do anything. Except I would take out “marriage”. That’s gone for me.

ROBT – Books? I got loads…..

Sorry. I’m not good right now. But I value your comments on that poem. The ref at the beginning and elsewhere. Rose. Rosemary - that's her name. He called her Rose. "My Rose". He shouldn't have disturbed her.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:11 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I accept that we can't change the past but I'm not sure that that means we shouldn't attempt to understand the past and to learn from it. I know that's not what you're trying to say but until I can feel that something substantial has been learned from his actions during those years, and from my own actions, I don't think I will be ready to move on.


I am definitely not saying not to delve through the past. I did, and I am very glad I did. I spent a lot of time looking at how he could do what he did and I have some answers for us that appear to be legit. And it helped a bit to have that.

But what really, really helped is learning why I did what I did during those years (and before and after). Why did I make those decisions that I made. Why was I afraid to do more than just voice my objections to things he did or didn't do. What were the fears that limited me or drove me? What were the options I was too frightened or ignorant to consider?

Those are the questions that I answered that made a real impact on me. Understanding me, not him. Understanding him was like an intellectual exercise -- interesting and somewhat helpful. Understanding me was formative and changative (is that a word?) and most importantly healing.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It took his infidelity to rip away the surface and expose what was underneath. I hate him for that. My vulnerability. My stupidity. It’s what will drive a wedge between us in the end if I don’t get to value myself


That's one way to feel about it. Another way to view it might be that this gives you an opportunity to fix whatever it is in you that doesn't allow you to value yourself.

I had the same thing in me and maybe for some of the same reasons. I was a middle child, with an older sibling who was brilliant and beautiful enough to be used as a model for a cherub in a stained glass church window. And then came me. I was chubby, plain, and had a really bad wandering eye at birth. I believed I was "less than" almost from birth and my parents confirmed that for me on many occasions in some particularly harsh and hurtful ways. It is hard to love yourself when you feel "less than". It took lots of IC before I stopped looking at the world in terms of comparatives and learned to just appreciate things for what they are, even if they are the not the "best" or even the "better."

I really hope you have found an IC for yourself whom you like, UK, cause I agree that if you can't resolve this issue it will cause problems in your marriage. But more importantly, it will be a huge stumblingg block for you personally in terms of your happiness and your options in life and your belief in what is possible for you.

Rather than limping through life trying to hide what you feel is your inferiority, you can work on really looking at yourself, fixing what needs fixing and learning to love and appreciate the rest.

To me, it is clear that you are an amazingly bright and talented woman. Are you the brightest or the most talented? Probably not, but that does not negate who and what you are.


D-day 7/29/04.

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