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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

25Wimsey - my H also had ED when he started his LTA and I know for a fact that he needed "help" with her since I found the evidence at his office and at home and he wasn't using it with me. He has a smorgasbord of ED meds now, Cialis, Viagra and Levitra and all work like magic. If it's not a health related issue for your H, you might encourage him to look into this if he hasn't already. There are other options too (PM me if you want) that his urologist can suggest. My H had prostrate CA and there were related problems to that so believe me we have a list of other options if the meds should fail. Hope this wasn't TMI but that it helps you to know you are not alone.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley - I was wondering if you caught the Oprah episode on Thursday with the transgender pregnant male. I never watch daytime tv or talk shows but meant to watch this and was so disappointed to have missed it. I'm betting it was a fascinating show. I have to check into that on her website. So, if you're tired of The View and missed this, hopefully this will entertain you for a while.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 11:45 AM, April 7th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf - I missed that as I was in round one of the procedure from hell that had to be repeated Sat. Are any of you network/tv execs and can we talk about getting some reasonable daytime programming for when we are laid up on the couch?!

Last time I spent watching this much TV was 5 years ago and I had a 103 degree fever so much of it was a blur of watch/sleep/watch/sleep. It is friggin' awful. And you KNOW I can't turn on the soaps which have to be trigger central.

BTW: I was thinking the same thing for 25w but don't have the experience with that (at least not yet). I do know one of my friends dad remarried a MUCH younger woman (mid-70s vs mid 40s) and he swears by Viagra which was just a little more info than I needed from him.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
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Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H has never seemed to have a "problem" with me since right after Dday when we were both so f'd up it's a wonder we could get dressed in the morning let alone function sexually.

We saw a commercial for Viagra or Cialis or something and he said he was glad he didn't have to use that because of the side effects (he says this about every drug BTW) and I said, "Well, it's like anything else, if the benefits outweigh the risks, you'll use it." I'm sure he'd be like the rest of them, doing it for OW and crying about his "condition" to the wife.

We were watching tv over the weekend and ch. 12 ran "the apartment". I love Jack Lemmon but the whole movie is about execs cheating on their wives and using his apt while doing it. We watched about an hour of it and I just got sad. Sad that it was the object of such "hilarity" and Shirley McLaine's portrayal of the OW just broke my heart.... wondering if H played his OW like Fred MacMurray played her. She was quite accurate in her estimation of her position.... summer fling, wife comes home from the country and he's back to playing family guy for a few months and then he looks her up for a thrilling hour and runs back home. H turned it off about the time they showed her crying her eyes out over breaking up with her MM. I don't know if the film got to him or my sudden quietness clued him in.

shirley, good to see you're feeling better.

I just got the call back from my neurologist who says nothing showed up on the MRI so I'm off for another round of testing next week. If I wasn't already having my head examined.... I'd have my head examined. Although he reassured me this is not in my head.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he swears by Viagra which was just a little more info than I needed from him.

Men, no matter how old they are, never outgrow their adolescent need to brag about their sex lives. One of my favorite HBO series was Sex in the City. I loved the episode where Samantha was dating an older man and when he got out of bed to use the bathroom, she cringed as his wrinkled butt crossed the room. Is that what we all have to look forward to??
I have a friend whose H cheated on her for years. She eventually D'd him and she is now married to a guy 12 years younger. Now that to me is a success story.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If I wasn't already having my head examined.... I'd have my head examined.


Good one Weepy. I am glad though that nothing showed up on the MRI. That's a good thing, right?


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ weepy!

Seriously, though, I am glad the MRI didn't show anything bad.

Just learned something. If I am stuck on the couch and nobody is posting, I just need to talk about sex and, voila, the tribe appears!

ETA: going back to the dr. in 30 min for hopefully the last visit.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 1:04 PM, April 7th (Monday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good luck today Shirley - you know the tribe is with you. (((HS)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OW! FUCK! OW! FUCK, FUCK, FUCK. If another dr. fucking digs around inside me with a sharp instrument and no pain killer I swear to god I am going to fucking kill someone!!!

Back on the couch again.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
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Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey shirley, I'd tell that to the next doctor if I was you!

The MRI showing nothing is good in one way... no tumor, no herniation. However, something is pressing on something and I think the next step will be a regular xray to see if there are any bony protrusions that might be leaning on the nerve.

Between the back, the therapists, the dentists, physicals, I'm about doctored out too.!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Between the back, the therapists, the dentists, physicals, I'm about doctored out too.!

No shit! We should have some sort of special health insurance for lta survivors. No co-pay, all IC and MC covered for all eternity.

Once my H made the mistake of saying "I didn't spend any money on the As/OW". Then I pointed out that we are about $20k into therapy and "alternative lodging" for him. Yep, didn't cost us a goddamned thing!

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 7:07 PM, April 7th (Monday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just checking in to see how you're feeling today Shirley.
Sounds absolutely awful. Actually sounds like a scene out of the Vagina Monologues.

Hope you feeling better though and that you are done with the torture altogether.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once my H made the mistake of saying "I didn't spend any money on the As/OW". Then I pointed out that we are about $20k into therapy and "alternative lodging" for him. Yep, didn't cost us a goddamned thing!

Yep, I bet if my H stopped and added it up he'd be surprised just how much his OW cost him.

Course that's why he said "I knew I should have just stuck with the whores". Because it seemed I was much more upset about about the LTA.

OK, so $$ vs a real relationship with a real woman... Bonus, I get both.

And boy am I lucky my insurance does cover MC and IC for life if I want it, well, the next 15 months if I want to pay the COBRA. Costs an arm and a leg now, but the C's have all said how unusual it is to find such a program. H won't get the details of his insurance program until he's there 90 days.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks fnf - actually feel better which is good since the H had to travel for business so I have the kids solo. I was able to drive them to school today without it hurting too much. I bet by about 7pm tonight I will be hurting.

Weepy - I would hang onto that insurance if you can because that is rare. My H has "executive" insurance and it doesn't cover 100% of IC and MC. In addition, we decided to go with Cs that were outside of the plan as they were more qualified than the ones in the plan so the coverage is even less.

BTW - fnf and Brooke - thanks a lot! I had all kinds of "dreams" last night. Good thing the H was out of town because the trek to the garage in the cold might have happened!!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF:

I think it was you who asked how Cowgirl and I have managed to overcome the loss of respect and good feeling for our H's.

In my case, there are a couple answers (has there ever not been with me? )

First, I really liked my husband. Even the affair couldn't change the essential parts of him that I enjoyed living with. He was still smart and funny and solicitous, for the most part. Even during the actual affair years, he was only mean or even snippy to me on a handful of occasions. He just grew distant.

So I have very few of the nasty comments to get over that some of you have. And certainly none of those post d-day. The disrespect inherent in those kind of responses would have been impossible for me to get over, I think. Post d-day I stand for nothing in that realm. He has used up his disrespect quota for life. I don't even tolerate the kind of standard male "wife jokes." And I don't make husband jokes either, for the most part.

That is not to say that H has pulled his punches. To the contrary, he has been honest in reconciliation and some of what he has said has been hard to hear, but he has never been deliberately hurtful. In fact, just the opposite.

That brings me to the second point -- he is working hard to fix what he broke, and what was broken in him. While I will never believe that he fully understands the extent of the devastation he caused, I think he has some idea, and that is enough so that he has done what I needed.

He discussed the affair and our relationship ad nauseum, whenever and however I wanted. He withstood a firestorm of anger and invective from me and didn't flich. He carried the marriage through that first year and into the second. He was steadfast in proclaiming his faith in us and his desire to remain married. That never waivered.

He has worked hard in counseling to find what was wrong with him and fix it. And he shared what was happening in therapy openly with me in the beginning, which really helped me to trust the whole process. He went into therapy with one simple goal, which he told the therapist on day one: I want to learn how to be a good husband. His therapist was wise enough not to try to dissuade him from that or give him a substitute self-centered goal. Instead she realized that to be a good husband you have to be a good man, and that is the goal she used to structure their therapy.

Third and fourth are rolled into one. I was always a great believer theoretically in redemption. My patron saint is a sinner who repented, and some of my favorite stories in literature involve bad boys/girls who turn their lives around.

What I realized when I finally got my brain back about 18 months after d-day is that this was a test of my beliefs also. Do I really believe that people can change? Do I believe in redemption, in mercy, in grace, in more than a theoretical way? The best I could do at that point was to say I wanted to believe in those things and actually live them. Through that willingness, came the courage to try and eventually, unbidden, the gift of enough grace to forgive.

The last element of transforming my feelings for my husband was looking at myself and realizing that I needed forgiving, too, and changing. Everybody does after 20-plus years together. I would say my H and I were opposites in some ways. On a day to day basis he is the nicer person and the better one to live with, but he had this rotten secret underside of lying/cheating/passive-aggressive punishing. I, on the other hand, was often difficult to live with day-to-day, easily angered and knowing something was wrong but not knowing what, which made me eternally suspicious and untrusting. And yet I had no dark secrets. I was loyal and responsible and completely dependable. With me, what you see is what you get. Obviously, not so with him.

Through MC and sharing with each other, we each learned about what made theother as they are, and we showed each other compassion for that, and supported each other in changing. And eventually, we forgave each other, although my husband would say there was nothing to forgive for me. And I would certainly agree that the wrongs I did him were on a completely different scale from his. But he has overcome much in his life, and I have great respect for that. And I believe he has changed on a cellular level, and that is something to be proud of.

I hate what he did and who he was then and always will. It hurt me in so many ways and forced me to live a life of lies for 20 years. I hate that loss of those years with a passion that will never stop. But I do not intend to waste any more years in a shadow life, and I don't think I will have to.

I look at him now and what I see is the man that I always hoped he was, but knew somewhere inside that he wasn't. Cause I have to tell you that I knew in some elemental way that there was something not quite right with the picture of himself he presented to me and the world. It just didn't sync. But now it does. Now there is no shadow secret life to darken him. He says that has made it possible for him to live free for the first time. I'm glad I stuck around for the ride.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 8:35 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
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Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shirley, that's one of the things we don't agree on. But I've managed to justify the cost because with IC 4x a month, MC 2x a month paying for them out of pocket is about what the insurance costs. That's not even factoring in my Psychiatrist and the meds.

He's never had to carry the insurance burden. Should be interesting come June when he finds out how much it takes out of his take home every week. He better be a damn good salesman!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
runoverbytruck
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Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, that was a great post.

You have such a way of bringing hope into my day.

Thank you.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
weepy
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Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, very nice.

Through MC and sharing with each other, we each learned about what made the other as they are, and we showed each other compassion for that

I think I know what got my H there, but since he doesn't care to find out, it's just a theory. And I have shown compassion for him since I knew why he acted like he did sometimes BEFORE the A. And we've talked ad nauseum about how I became "mother" in his eyes and the rebel who attracted me in the first place turned it against me.

However, as I posted somewhere else this morning, he lacks empathy. He failed it on his personality test. He just doesn't "get" how my mother's attempted suicide and my fathers' leaving for OW affected US. In his mind, she lived, so what's the big deal. In his mind, my father left, he didn't, so they have no relation to the other.

Even though I understand where his "secrecy" issues come from, it doesn't mean I still want them in our M. Even though I understand that he responds from a position of deep lack of self-esteem, his "judgements" of other people still rankle.

My H has come a long way from who he was during the affairs. And I think I'm managing to get somewhere on my own inner journey to feeling worthwhile without having to have it validated by someone else.

But this doesn't mean we're good together or for each other either. That maybe we should never have been.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - WOW! I am sending that to myself to look at every time I go into one of my funks. So much of what you said applies to my H; however, his transgressions were greater and we are much closer to dday. I can only hope I will find a way to where you are.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, April 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW - fnf and Brooke - thanks a lot! I had all kinds of "dreams" last night. Good thing the H was out of town because the trek to the garage in the cold might have happened!!!


Thanks for the laugh, Shirley. I do hope you got some satisfaction in those dreams of yours.

BT - thank you for your beautiful post. It's funny. I have always been one to "look at the glass half full", KWIM? Now, in my M, I look at it "half empty." This is just not who I've ever been. All of the work my H does to show me his remorse I view with suspicion. Like yours, my H is smart, funny and often solicitous. But unlike yours, he has this nasty side that has too often sent me back to square one in my recovery. One of problems that I have is that for my entire married life my H has told me that "you can't change the stripes on a tiger" and now he is asking me to believe just the opposite - that he is a changed man. I bring this up all the time. I tell him he is the one who ALWAYS told me that people don't change and yet now he wants me to believe he has. It's very confusing for me. I want to believe and yet, by his own admission, he has never believed it possible himself.
Another point is that my H is very happy to discontinue his IC'ing. He goes because I ask him to but even our MC (who does our IC'ing as well) admits that my H will only look so deep and then he shuts down. So, if he is unwilling to look beyond the point of comfort, how can I believe he is capable of going to that point required to make those changes?
In addition, he has always been a cheater. He cheated on his first wife, he cheated on the woman who he was cheating with on his first wife, and he cheated on me. That's a lifetime of cheating and dishonesty to overcome.
I don't want to paint an overly bleak image of our M today. We do well for longer spans of time now. But there will always be, I think, this underlying distrust and suspicion. I cannot imagine ever allowing myself to fully trust him again.
I think the fact that your H was willing to really delve into his dark side and was committed to doing the work, you are most fortunate. My H, on the other hand, is content to accept that he did these things because his parents taught him to be dishonest. It's "mommy and daddy's fault." He seems to prefer this to accepting responsibility for his actions. Even my D said to me on several occasions, "When is dad going to accept his responsiblity and stop blaming his parents? He's an adult and lost the privilege of casting blame elsewhere."
This week we seem to be doing well. I'll enjoy the moment and hope it lasts a while but I am somewhat prepared for the next downturn. I do think these are further and further apart but when then come back, it's like we have made no progress at all.
I agree that we have our own faults and quirks to work on and I am trying hard to overcome my major personality flaw which is my temper. I see how this contributed to the problems in our M since my H is a conflict avoider. But, believe me, my H can be very intimidating and borderline threatening when he gets angry. During those early weeks following d-day, there were times when I feared him. He threatened his partner and to this day their relationship has not recovered.
So, BT, sorry for the long-winded response, but as you know, you are very lucky indeed. I think what you have posted here clearly explains why some of us can move on and have better marriages and others, if we choose to stay, will struggle to some degree or other. As my MC told me, if I choose to stay it may just be a matter of "managing" my M during the rough times and enjoying the good periods while they last.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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