My H and I have had communication issues dating back yonks!
Now to today's issue... I swear, I think we just have to give up having sex. I was so depressed, so lonely after it this morning. I tried to get him to get back in bed and cuddle, but morning sex is like taking the morning shower, just something to get done and over and move on to start the day. That's why I like it at night.
He's mad a me now. I said something this morning he "heard" as I told him he was stupid. When actually all I did was agree with something he'd said. Then our DS has bank issues and forgot his password to check the account on line. I was positive he had one set up, so I went on line and started fiddling around. H gets mad because I always do stuff FOR them instead of letting them do it on their own. Shit, I was AT the computer. I wanted to check on that and then get back to my "game". To let him do it, I'd have to have given up my spot... sometimes I think H hates me on the computer because he never knows when I'm here...
Anyway, now I guess when he asks me to do something I can tell him he's perfectly capable of doing it himself! and I just might.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Thanks for the support you all. I have been on a down since, but keeping it in, as I was babysitting.
My IC told me from the start that my H is a very troubled man, who seems to have deep issues. She said that we could R successfully after what we have been through, if we both do the hard work required for our own roads. She said she would do her best for me, to help me achieve my goals and meet my challenges on my road, becasue she can see and hear how determined I am.
However, noone can make H be that determined.He may be able to change some bad habits, he may be able to address some of his issues. But the reality is that to "fix" some of his issues, that enabled him to do all that he did for years and years, will take extremely hard work, and whether he can do that or not, will be debatable.And this is a long long term process.
You know I forget sometimes that she told me this. Soemtimes, I think that H and I are on the same side, that we are traveliing the same road, have similar directions in life. Soemtimes I forget that he did what he did to me and the kids, knowingly and willingly. I forget at the end of the day, he is the same man inside now that he was then. Oh, he has changed many many of his bad habits. He has changed parts of the way that he views me and the kids. He has done some work on himself, and we can see that.
But inside, he is still the same man, who will put himself first sometimes. The same man who will see me burn, and not pick up the pail of water everytime.
The difference now is that I never quite know when he is going to do what.
Oneday, my IC said, I will have to decide whether to accept that this may be how the rest of my life will play out. Or let him go.
Does any of this make sense?
Oneday, my IC said, I will have to decide whether to accept that this may be how the rest of my life will play out. Or let him go. Does this make sense?
Have you read my posts lately?
Soemtimes I forget that he did what he did to me and the kids, knowingly and willingly. I forget at the end of the day, he is the same man inside now that he was then. Oh, he has changed many many of his bad habits. He has changed parts of the way that he views me and the kids. He has done some work on himself, and we can see that.
Lost - I think this is what BT is talking about when she finally really got the serenity prayer. You cannot make him do the work. You can look at what changes he has made in himself and determine if that is enough for you to stay with him or not.
You say he has made changes. Are they the deep, meaningful changes that are necessary to fix what was broken inside of him? Does he understand what caused him to make the wrong decisions? Does he have a method for dealing with it?
As I have said, my H is in IC 2X per week plus our MC. So he is spending 3 hours per week in counseling. In addition, he has read many of the books we have talked about here. (He thought the Slippery Slope was incredible). I am not telling you this to tell you how great he is (we all know how fucked up he had to be to do what he did his WHOLE LIFE ). I am telling you this because it has taken 8 months of him peeling back the layers of the onion to really start to understand who he is, where he issues lay, how he must confront them, bring them out into light and develop a plan for making sure he doesn't slip back into being that person.
I have no part in that journey for him. I just sit and watch and try to decide whether 1) if I can ever get past what he has done and be with him in a relationship and 2) if so, is he healed enough/changed enough that I would want to.
BTW, Lost, do you like my new sig line in my bio?
ETA: on the "taking care of yourself" front - Mani yesterday- off to get a Pedi now. That should bring OTC out of hiding!
[This message edited by hurtshirley at 2:21 PM, April 12th (Saturday)]
Are they the deep, meaningful changes that are necessary to fix what was broken inside of him? Does he understand what caused him to make the wrong decisions? Does he have a method for dealing with it?
No,no and no.
He goes to IC once a week, but I have no idea what they talk about, what he thinks about what they talk about, whether it helps him, has he made any discoveries about himself,...etc etc.
HE has told me that he likes talking to her, getting things off his chest, that she has told him that he needs to figure out what he wants because he just doesnt know...he just goes with the flow.
And that in itself is scary for me, because thats what he did all our M.
Cant talk much now..kids to sleep, but thanks for listening.
The changes he has made has made him more nicer to have around.
And Weepy, yes, I have, and they scare me to be honest.
I love you guys.
Someone has my ID, and all the info necessary to cause me a LOT of grief.....
So, I can use all the prayers the TRIBE can muster up for me.
Just when I thought life was going OK......
I've been keeping up with your posts and thinking of each of you. I guess the bright side for me is that at almost 3 years past dday my life is all about things *other* than the A. I hope that gives some of the newbies here some degree of hope. I can say that I am happy now about 75% of the time....
I hope you cancelled all your cards.
Crap. Its such a violation, isnt it?
Maybe it was either some druggie that just wanted a quick buck, takes the cash and then bins it.
I am really wishing that some kind samaritan picks it up and does the right thing.
Sending you buckets of white light, HB, that this gets resolved quickly.
Followup from yesterday's convo.
I have been letting H do his work on himself, whilst I have been focusing on me.
How do I know if this is all he is capable of, or just willing to do?
Am I being too critical too early in the game?
Do I have the right to ask his IC for her opinion on him, whether she thinks he is capable of deeper long lasting changes?
How can I approach him without this escalating to WW3...he and I have had HUGE communication issues...for yonks .
Shirley, That post you did about Sisters, I rooted about until I found it. Iíd sent it to my friend in Australia and it now has come back to me. How nice is that??
Weepy Ė apart from your other stuff thatís been going on here, I want give you my opinion re charging for board. What your H said, it is not enough!! What FNF said is about right. Take a rounded up 25% of her income, take out of that what her presence is truly costing you (water, food, drink, a bit of electric) which would amount to say 20% of what she is paying you. Put the rest aside in another account (without telling her) and save it. After a year or so there will be enough for a rental deposit and money in the bank. She can then move out for a while and see how she manages. Donít let her be the cuckoo in the nest. I did the saving thing for #1 son and 6mths back at home paid for his return fare to Australia and I am doing it with #3 son who now has over £1,000 with me. #2 son left for Australia so soon after leaving college so I never got a chance to charge him anything!!
That's it, LH, prior to Dday, I would've dutifuly and lovingly taken care of him. Now, I just wonder if it comes to that, will I just be bitter and resentful every moment, and that is what my life will be reduced to late in life.
LostH Ė Way, just waaay too much going on here with you. My goodness woman, donít wait until you are a ball on the floor, let him know how it is before then! Stay away from your SIL and her ishoos, they are of her own making and I'd say a little too much of your Hís fucked up family there. Do not let her near you. She is bad news and too mouthy to boot. I can relate with regard to the movie incident Ė happens too often with me too. All you were asking for was a little sympathy and a ďwell, you got through it, weíll know not to get it on DVDĒ Huh? Now to the woman (ďcolleagueĒ) who has been emailing. Seemed innocent but FWH was furious?? Duh?? Wakey, wakey, LH and a hard slap to your H. Red flag? Just a bit! Sounds like heís liking the attention and flattery. Again. Cue ďJawsĒ music. Címon girl, you did well ringing her, but heís too quick to the defence IMHO. Fingers in ears, lalala canít hear you, eyes shut, goaway,goaway,goaway. He is being a first class narcissist. Donít take no shit, girl. Stand by your principles cos you are right. Okay?
Calling FSA, calling FSA. Hey, you gonna be in those new offices soon?
Meantime, Mr UKg is doing okay. AT LAST we are getting rid of his car. We went out yesterday his Audi A3 is being traded in for a Freelander 4x4. He said he knew I didnít like driving his car anyway. I looked askance and said there was only one reason I didnít like going in his car anywhere. He said nothing Ė Okay, how about BECAUSE SHEíD BEEN IN IT ??What a fucking idiot. Iíd told him umpteen times. I was fine with it until DDay. Company paying for my trundling around, it was really okay. He just doesnít get it. Sheís gone, so whatís the problem? I do not like the idea that your shagpiece has been sitting in this passenger seat with you driving her wherever, you fuckwit!!
And of course, I can relate to alot of the discussions going on here. And sometimes it is just so hard to carry on. It would be easier to chuck it all in and say enough, no more, Iím outta here. I just wish he was the man I thought I married, the man I thought he was and that ainít gonna happen. So. We clean the slate and start again. I want courting and I want romance and I want WHAT SHE HAD!! Sometimes I think I should chuck him out soas we can start again properly.
ďTalk to a man about himself and he will listen for hoursĒ How true.
Re the car...they either get or they dont.You can try throwing it back to him, like how would he feel using something impt that he knew you and your OM has used together?And wondering every time you both used it, whether you were remiscing about OM, did you have "special memories", how contaminated is it, etc.
A 2x4, eh? I can just picture you breaking this baby in!!!
If anyone has some time, please check out my thread in R. Will appreciate any feedback.TIA.
I just wish he was the man I thought I married, the man I thought he was and that ainít gonna happen
Strange thing about that for me, Ukg. I wouldnt want that man now. I can see his quirks for what they are now,and no way will they be acceptable to this 36 year old mama! And further, now I know that I cant change him, and that all he needed was true love and care, and he would flourish, DOES NOT work.
I am getting over my KISA complex.
You don't just wake up some morning and say "ok, today I am going to trust person X". You need to get to know that person, spend time with them, learn if they are a good person or not and they, over time, earn your trust and you learn to trust them. Our Hs took the most pure form of trust and not only violated it but used to to take advantage of us. The have EVEN MORE work to do to earn that trust back. AND, at least in my case, I will never fully trust him again. My guard will always be up.
On another topic, do you think it would help if my H responds to you for your H to read?
Hey, UKgirl, don't be such a stranger!
HB - I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed that it was just a petty thief looking for cash. In the meantime, call one of the credit scoring companies and report the loss. They can put a notation on your credit report that will stop the thief from being able to open any new accounts with your info. You have cancelled all your cards, atm, etc, right?
Thanks for the well-wishes and shared/group anger with me!!!! Last night when it happened I filed a police report and cancelled my credit cards. Today, I signed on with an identity theft protection company, changed my bank account, ordered a new purse that is more difficult for theives to steal, and pulled out enough cash to last me until my new cards get here. ON tomorrow's fun agenda... getting my DL re-done, calling my medical/dental insurance companies. Oh yeah, and of course I have to miss work to do this.
You know, between my scum-sucking OW and the scum that took my purse, I'm not feeling overly hopeful about humanity.....This is the first time since about a year after dday that I was feeling like I needed a Valium or something.
How do I know if this is all he is capable of, or just willing to do?
This is the million dollar question that all us LTA survivors ask about our FWS's....There really is no way to know for sure. I think what some of your ICs are saying in a gentle way is that we've got no guarantees here. BUT our tough homework is to figure out whether these tigers are changing any of their stripes; and if so, is it enough for us. Each of us goes through to some extent, and I found that to eventually find peace I had to re-wire my very overly-controlling (and sometimes obsessive )to be happy despite *not* having that guarantee. And like some of the other ladies here (that I admire), I came to the conclusion that *if* he does this again I know I will survive. I will know that I tried to keep my family intact. And at that point, he will have left me no option. Now, even if he's not cheating, if he still has some of that cheater mentality/selfishness that continues on.....you will KNOW that. As Run always says, they are telling you who they are, you just need to listen. And if that is the case and you are not seeing *enough* change, it might be time to start looking towards a life without them.
That's just my two cents in a less artful description than BT or Numb would give (love you girls )
Thanks again for your well wishes. As with the OW, I realize I have zero control over this theif that robbed me. And other than taking precautions to protect myself, I am not in control. Damn, that's hard to deal with.... But if I let myself continue to worry every single day whether this person is going to burglarize my house (now that they have my address), steal my identity even years later, or my H is going to cheat again... then I'm not reallyliving life. And you know what? I had a friend that passed away recently at 42 of colon cancer. And I want to treasure my remaining time here on earth.
I have had my rose-colored glasses knocked off my nose, and I am feeling disturbed and paranoid!!!
I don't know what to do, the psycho XSOW has started calling again!
I sure could use some input from some of you's, because posting in general has only gotten me one response..... Could you help me out????
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
Thanks.... I know that I shouldn't give her that power over me.... and I haven't responded in anyway. I just don't want to go back there, if you know what I mean!
My WS and I have MC this week, so maybe I'll see what our C has to say. I have done all I could to protect myself from XSOW. I think that she is trying to get me mad at my H, hoping that I will put him out and in her arms.
That will NEVER happen. My marriage is going better than I ever expected and at least this time WS is understanding and supportive. He knows that she is fishing, but what she doesn't know is that it won't help her--- my H says that he is never leaving and that he really truly loves me!
I guess I just let her get under my skin and I shouldn't.
Off to work.Have a good day everyone!
He goes to IC once a week, but I have no idea what they talk about, what he thinks about what they talk about, whether it helps him, has he made any discoveries about himself,...etc etc
I also have no idea... have a suspicion because when he comes home, he will be fine. Saturday I even ran into him 5 minutes before his session should have been over...he's never emotional afterwards and if I ask, he clams up, gets defensive.
LH I swear we're married to the same guy, so I guess I know why my posts scare you. I'm much further out and still feel uneasy a lot of the time.
It's weird. I know my H didn't do any inappropriate stuff on the computer with OW and after his initial defensiveness about the new account (which I have the pw to) I'm fine with it. I notice all kinds of odd behavior where there wasn't before... like yesterday he kept going out to his car to get stuff out of his work bag. And he went upstairs to call an old "friend" about a job for DS. (This is the sister of an old GF I think, he says no, but he always says no when I have questioned him about women). I went right upstairs and joined him of course. He said it was because he wanted a cigarette and I'm not smoking. But not once during the conversation did he mention me, our D only that "his" son had applied to her company for an internship this summer. His conversations, not just with her, but with everyone are always filled with "I"... I watched this movie over the weekend..... MY son was home....I'm moving to South Carolina when I retire. I tried doing that with people for a while and it felt very awkward NOT to say WE.
hb, I hope everything turns up alright. I had mine swiped at a gas station years ago and a good smaratan did call me. He found everything except the cash... which I'm sure the bandits were very upset to discover only $7 dollars in it.
A few months ago, I was loading my groceries onto the belt when the man behind me handed me my purse which was sitting in the little seat area. He said "If I were a different kind of guy, I could have taken your wallet without you even knowing and been gone." I thanked him and asked him what kind of guy he was... he said a retired cop. I'm still too trusting!
WEll, off to the gym ladies. Have a great day.
And for a little pat on my own back.... today is day 3 with only one cigarette!
Now I'm upset... do I tell him why or do I ask him if he remembers any behavior that might be "upsetting" from yesterday to get me this way? And leave it to him? I don't know if he knows I look at the phone records and I don't want him to because then he'll start using the work phone or something.
FUCK I hate what this has done to us.
I donít know what to say without maybe causing offence. But this is my take after 6mths of being here on SI. Big breath. Okay.
He seems to think that he is the one to be in control of his marriage and I think this comes from his upbringing Ė the man being in charge of the family and whatever he says goes without question.
"You have no right to judge me, to make me feel responsible for the consequences of my action, to blame me for your hurt. I have done all that was expected of me, I have become an adult, got married, settled down, had children and been a provider (ignore the financial squandering - tsk) for my family and as previous generations before me I have a right to a private alternative life as long as Iím discreet and no one is hurt. Leave me alone."
The trouble is, that view doesnít work in the society in which you live. In a male, self-centred, puffed up way, he seems to think he IS entitled and that it is not your place to complain and that you should buckle down, put up and shut up. Now, I may have this very wrong, in which case, chuck my comments to one side (if you haven't already). I really donít mean to offend. But I think he is pretty Victorian in his male dominated attitude. I donít see how that can change. His mum (and family) has set him up in this way by allowing him to treat you as less than an equal partner.
He has to do more than pander to your seemingly hysterical and unreasonable demands (seems to be his current view of the female), he has to believe that a seismic change is required. You are stuck between cultures and values, between what is acceptable and what isnít. Itís a tough place to be and you cannot please everyone. So don't try. Stand by your own values and principles.
You are a beautiful person, Lost. You are a wonderful mother and a faithful, loyal wife who deserves reward, not conflict. You are a loving and generous person. Bright, intelligent, thoughtful and caring. You are in a very difficult place and you somehow have to find your peace. And so does he. Everything is a compromise in life, but that doesnít mean you have to do all the compromising. Only he can change himself. And he has to want to change which means he has to see the benefits those changes will bring to his life. There is nothing you can do to open up a closed mind apart from to sit and wait and hope that time and therapy will ping on some lights for him.
I wish I could be there to say this to you in person. I have been holding your hands while saying this, willing you strength (and your H the ability to see what he is missing - the idiot!).
If I've overstepped the line, I'm sorry. If I'm barking up the wrong tree, tell me and I'll shut up!! (((((Lost))))) Now, havenít you booked in for a hot stone massage? I'm going to read a bit and catch up and then Iím off to saunter the gardens before it rains (and chat up the gardener!)
Lovinlife, replied in Gen. Why donít they just crawl back from whence they came?
Weepy Ė I donít like the sound of this. What GF? I donít understand what you are talking about. Was it yesterday he phoned her? Have you got the number? This is ridiculous, whatís going on?
I donít like the sound of this. What GF? I donít understand what you are talking about. Was it yesterday he phoned her? Have you got the number? This is ridiculous, whatís going on?
An Old, Old GF like from our dating days. She lives in a different state, but like him, he needs to be liked so much, he managed to keep friends with his old fuck buddies. So GF might be a stretch. When he was in contact with her like once a year around Christmas I would balk, tell him I didn't like it, but since he never hid the calls from me, I could see it was all "hows the family" crap. Still didn't like it, but at least he was above board with it.
Yesterday he called her sister for her number, then made an excuse to leave the house and spent a half hour on the phone with her before coming home. And never mentioned talking to her. I'm sure his excuse will be something like "I knew it bothered you when I talked to her" , so why did he leave the room to talk to her SISTER? For all I know he may have fucked the whole lot of them.
She lives 600 miles away so it's not like he can pop over for a visit. But I don't know whether to monitor or wait a while like I was giving him a chance to tell me or confront immediately. Or call the MC for an appt this week and tell him to figure out why.
I know for sure I'm not answering the phone when he calls me to day. Or else he'll hear the "anger" in my voice. When that happens, he ratchets it up... he can get angrier than me. And I become afraid of him literally. Not that he'd hurt me, but that he'd leave. I have to get over that. If he chooses this nobody over our "no hiding things" rule, then he's made his choice, hasn't he?