I read a book about diff affairs and there was one (which fits my H) that sex would actually end the illusion so it's not consummated.
The type of fierce loyalty that I possess made me incapable of comprehending the level of disloyalty that he possessed
Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger
What really upset me - once D-Day #1 happened, he was determined to keep contact with her and it didnt matter how upset he was I was about it.
That is something that I dont think I will ever get over. We have had 3 D-Days over this one woman.
If she is so great and he is so willing to keep sneaking around with her and obviously she is that important to him, why didnt he just leave after D-Day? I gave him an out. I told him if he really would rather be with her, I would bow out of this 3 way because I don't share men and since his mind is on her, I'd rather be with a man whose mind is on me. But he wouldnt leave. For 3 D-Days, I've invited him to go to her if that is what makes him happy.
On the last D-Day, I told him if he doesnt leave and stays because he wants to stay married to me and I find out he's still in contact with her - he's going to need a police escort or ambulance out of our house. And I mean it. I'm not playing around anymore with this crazy shit.
He's acting better than he has in years except for the continued lack of affection from him. I just told him last weekend that I've had it with that. I told him either he has a problem within himself that he needs to address with a counselor, or he's still seeing OW. He didnt answer, but he started giving me more affection than normal.
I dont want to MAKE HIM show affection or love me. He doesnt have to if he really isnt feeling me. And, if thats the case, I really need him to just leave. I'll be fine. The kids will be fine without him with us.
Now back when D-Day #1 happened (2 years ago), he excused his behavior as it being an "ego thing" and he knew his boundaries and would never have sex with her. I asked him had he discussed our marriage with her and gave a resounding NO! Well, I'm having such a problem believing anything he says because what else could they talk about 5-7 times a day, 7 days a week???
He says they discussed what was going on at work. Well they are in different departments, their jobs have nothing to do with each other. They talked about politics, news current events. He claimed she never discussed her personal life with him. So if he didnt talk about his personal life and she didnt talk about her personal life, what the hell were they talking about so much, so many times.
He's just lying his ass off to me over and over again.
I have enjoyed being married to him. He's an extremely nice looking man, built really nice and the ladies think he's absolutely gorgeous and he knows this and he knows what the women think and say about him and he's eating it up.
But if I find another secret prepaid cell phone - all hell is gonna break out. I've given his 3 times to walk away from this marriage because of it - 3 times!!!! Finding another phone means he paid no attention and didnt take anything I said seriously and he will pay dearly for that.
He will find out how vindictive, destructive, evil, and dangerous an angry mad Black woman can be.
"It ain't about love anymore."
I can tell you with absolute and 100% certainty that my WS has been embroiled in a long-term EA and it has never gone to a PA. I know this because I proceeded to investigate my ass off when I initially became suspicious something was up. I immediatley researched and purchased a top notch VAR and also got my hands on all of both his and her text messages. Nothing there but some ego stroking and blatant flirting, as well as conversations that were way off limits because it invaded our marital boundaries. None the less this EA is just as painful as any other affair. So, truly for me he may has well have gone ahead and banged her. In my mind what was violated was the most intimate part of us and sometimes I do wonder will we ever be able to get there again and have that back?!
Hope this answers your questions,
Believe me, if he had had sex with OW he would have been bragging about that. Instead he bragged to his best friend about what a great guy he was for not having sex when OW was offering it daily at work.
He confessed to me as he said he was unable to resist the urge to have sex with her. It was my job to help him keep his pants on despite his undying luuuuuvvve for OW and his hatred for everything I'd ever done wrong in this M.
I think he wanted me to kick him out so he could be free to have sex with her. Or he wanted to eat cake and enjoy her adoration without losing his family. Or maybe sex wasn't part of the deal... adoration was. She wasn't all that attractive ... good body but very masculine looking face and very desperate, aggressive demeanor. His previous girlfriends and I are totally opposite of this ... she is not his type.
WH said as messed up as he was at the time he knew turning the EA to PA would have made R impossible for us. He reasoned that an EA was no big deal.
So yes EAs only can happen but they suck.
Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?
"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."
The emotional pull was sustaining the fantasy, for sure. And meeting in person would have certainly ruined the 'we are just friends' justification of the A that kept us going as long as we did.
hmm interesting, because that is exactly what my WH says happened once the EA turned to a PA it was DONE.
He is showing no effort. His EA has made me believe he doesn't care for me any longer. He says "love ya" when we get off the phone. Horrible!
In some ways, I thank my lucky stars.
However, in her pursuit of making it a PA, she wrote him messages that still haunt me to this day (over a year) and makes me wonder what was exchanged on the phone.
In April, we spent a week at the beach for her sister’s wedding. Throughout the week I started to see a different side of her. It almost seemed like she did not want me around. She wanted to send me to get the kids to bed so she could party with other friends – would not dance with me at the reception – you know, little things. I expressed to her how much this hurt me, and she did say that she did not realize she was doing it and it was never her intention to hurt me.
When we returned from the beach, the odd behavior started. Her cell phone was on her hip like a holster. She’d sleep with it and hide it when she would take a shower. She would often slam her laptop shut whenever I walked by. Her email and Facebook passwords were changed. Before I started to dig deep, I approached her and told her that I was scared that something was going on - that I knew things between us weren’t great – and that I wanted to change that. I questioned her about the odd behavior and she said it was because I was being over-bearing and she didn’t feel like she had any privacy. I didn’t think I was, but took her word for it. In a sense, I actually felt guilty for accusing her of something. She said I was crazy.
I made a strong effort to spend more time together – having a date night and spending time alone away from the kids. Sexual relations between us is very rare – she never seems to be interested. But when it does happen, it is pretty good. Unfortunately, the odd behavior did not end. So I felt it was time to dig deep. I am pretty savvy with computers and was able to install a program on her computer to monitor her use.
I found out that she had a private email account she was using for a profile she set up on an adult chat website. Oddly enough, I did not freak out right away. The profile was not an accurate account of who she was and where she lived, so I chalked it up to her having fantasy chat with random men across the country. What I did find that disturbed me, were private chat sessions she was having with the best friend – and also Best Man – of my BIL. She was the Maid of Honor at the wedding I spoke about above. Convenient, huh? The chat I found was somewhat innocent, talking about random stuff. I still gave her the benefit of the doubt – and figured I’d do some more investigating.
D-day started like any other day. I worked, we ate dinner and decided we would have physical relations – which was great! Less than an hour after that, I was working in my office and felt compelled to log onto her Facebook account. She was in the midst of a chat session with the best friend of my BIL. I was sickened by what I saw: a heated sexual conversation about how they wish they could be together. Not only that, she brought ME into the mix – stating that they didn’t want to get caught – not because it was wrong – but because “my husband is a girl and is overly-dramatic.” Two floors upstairs, less than an hour after having sex with her husband, and here she was saying all of the these things to this POS!! I flipped. I called her downstairs, told her I knew what was going on, that I was sick about the whole thing. And, yes, I was a bit dramatic – but who wouldn’t be?
At first, she was defensive because she knew she was caught and I invaded her privacy. She said it was purely fantasy and nothing did – and nothing would - ever happen physically. I told her I didn’t believe her and she has two options – end it and let’s fix our situation, or let me walk away. She said it meant nothing and she would end it. By the way, did I mention this was Father’s Day weekend?? Happy Father’s Day! I even started to chat with him THAT NIGHT and told him to stop being a HW and stop talking to my wife. He told me to man up. That didn't help my anger - so in retrospect, I should not have reached out to him. But my emotions took over and I was fuming!
The next day, we talked more. I told her that if she really wants a chance at working things out, she should take him off of Facebook, send him a message that it is over and, for God’s sake, tell this guy I am a good husband, hard worker and good father – not the girl she made me out to believe. But don’t do it because I am holding a gun to your head – do it because YOU feel it is the right thing to do. Don’t do it to appease me. I told her that I did not believe her that it would not have turned into a PA, because the guy is local and the chat logs tell a different story – that if they could have, they would have. She insisted it was still fantasy. She said she did find him attractive, but she was not in love with him and that he just made her feel attractive. I asked her if she texted him via cell phone. She said sometimes. I asked her how she kept it from me. She said it was under one of her girlfriend’s names. She showed me her phone and said I could check all of her contacts to ensure he was gone from her phone. Stupid me.
The next night (Father’s Day) her phone received a text late at night. She refused to let me see who it was and erased the message before either of us could see it. She said it was a friend from work. I knew who it was. To confirm, I got online and checked our bill – and sure enough – it was the POS Best Man. All she did was changed his name in the contacts from one friend to another. And the amount of texts between the two of them in this 2 month period was almost 900 tests!! Some full days worth – from the time I left for work to the time I got home. Texting and chatting was even going on with me in her presense!
The next morning, I told her I was leaving. I am not going to stay around and get hurt anymore. I took off my wedding ring and started packing my suitcase. She said she did not want me to go. That she was writing a letter that morning to send to the OG . Which she did. It was a actually really well-written. Stating she knows she was wrong, wanted to fix her marriage and that it was over between them. It almost kept me from leaving – until I went back on her computer and found that she had written him a second letter stating that I forced her to write the letter – that I am forcing her to delete him from Facebook – that I was forcing her to tell him I am not a girl. She told him to ignore it and cool off on the texting for awhile because I am checking it. That was enough for me. She was called every name in the book. I was sickened. Like I was living someone else’s life. I could not believe that after all of these years, it was like I didn’t even know who she was anymore.
That night, I left. Driving around aimlessly, not knowing what to do or where to go. Thinking that my life was over. My family is my life. All I would have left is my job. But what good is that if I have no one to share it with? She begged me to come home, so I did. When I got home, it was the first time throughout the weekend that I saw true emotions from her. Not this zombie that acted like she did nothing wrong. I told her I am really contemplating a divorce. She said she didn’t want that. I wasn’t, and am still not sure, if she wants to stay together for the kid’s sake and our financial sake – or if it’s because she still loves me. I still get the feeling I was in love with her more than she was with me. That I was attracted to her more than she was with me. To this date, I still don’t know.
It has been roughly a month and a half since D-Day. We are currently in the early stages of couple therapy and we are trying to work it out. It seems like a breakthrough for her because she doesn’t believe in therapy – but it was her idea. I still suffer every day. I am still in a very overly-obsessive state of mind. Wanting to know every detail. I find myself wanting to harm the POS OG – and I am not a violent person. I know these things are not good for the healing process, but it is how I feel.
I find myself extremely jealous, wanting the all day texts to be with me - wanting the online fun to be with me - trying to fill that void in her life. But it hasn't happened yet, which is making it hard for me to heal. She wanted it with him and not with me? WTF?
Based on her conversations with the OG, I know they did not meet … yet. I am not sure if this would have stayed an EA or would have turned into a PA. Either way, it hurts like hell. I still love her deeply. She is a good mother and I know it has been a rough year. I really hope and pray that we will come through this stronger, but it is going to be a long, hard process. My heart goes out to anyone in this position and hope I can find some support here from those in similar situations.
[This message edited by LostDad1974 at 4:29 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]
Everything that I have seen suggests that EAs either go physical or die. Long term EAs are few and far between. Usually an ongoing EA is a PA that has not been consumated yet due to logistics.
I hope this isn't true
My WS admitted finally to a EA that lasted around 4 years.
[This message edited by wantingtobelieve at 12:38 AM, August 18th (Wednesday)]
Fast forward a month, and she blindsides me with the announcement that she thinks that this MOM is open to a relationship, and that she'd like to "explore" it. Cue D-Day music. They never met -- he lives in another state -- and only ever talked twice on the phone, once VERY briefly.
Still, for two months, she pines after him, scours the Internet for "messages" that she thinks he's leaving her (he's wisely ended their email contact) and insists that she's leaving me. It doesn't end until I finally call OMW, learn that she knows all about the contact and that she thinks my WW is a stalker. OM issues an NC letter to WW and me, and two days later WW is seized by a horrible paranoia in which she believes that OM and his friends/colleagues/mob buddies are spying on and stalking her both online and even in person. The plus side: It pulls her out of the fog. I provide the best TLC I can, her paranoia gradually eases, and we begin the hard work of reconnecting.
Which generally seemed to be going well until she told me a week ago that she plans to move out as quickly as possible and get a divorce. But that's a story for another post.
[This message edited by survivorman at 5:41 PM, September 4th (Saturday)]
After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone
Any advice from anyone???
[This message edited by Linzie4 at 11:52 AM, October 4th (Monday)]
[This message edited by Linzie4 at 11:55 AM, October 4th (Monday)]