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Wow...does this ever end without a divorce? It's hard to get past things when H works with the OW every day. She even has a nickname for him...which he claims "everybody" calls him by at work. Really? Never heard it from anyone myself, and we have done many things as a group. Funny how she is never at these group things with her "so-called" fiance. Seems she's not well liked at work. Hmmm?
My H just doesn't get it. The last thing happened about 7 weeks ago. His phone is sounding off with text messages from someone. He's outside, so I check his phone to see who is so desperately trying to reach him. Well, seems she's just answering his text that they are ok. On some lake and he gets a message there is EMS needed at the same lake. Gee...hundreds of people there, but he has to contact her just in case. Funny, his text to her is erased, yet she says "we are ok...thanks for asking". Then she sends pics of her kids swimming and fishing...aren't they wonderful. What's wrong with this picture?? This is the one who he had a lengthy lunch with...lied to me about...but they are just good friends. We talk and I ask why his text to her is erased. "I always erase text...so what?" We argue and his response is he did nothing wrong...he would have asked all others he works with the same thing if they had been there. (he must seriously think I'm a moron) In the conversation he gets defensive, angry...all the things the MC told him not to do...and finishes it with "I'm not gonna be questioned about every little thing I do. So, you do your thing and I'll do mine and let me know when you want to be a couple again". Hmmm? Defensive and trying to throw guilt my way. Not workin this time. Think I'm gonna ask him to move downstairs...nice basement room. Just cannot afford to seperate...in this economy, and with the market in the toilet, for now we are stuck with each other.
Unless someone has some miracle idea that can make him see what he's doing is destroying our marriage...I'm pretty much done.
HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT!!!!
I'm another member of the EA gang. 10 months since DDay and a year since the EA began and things are worse now than ever before.
She's in the fog and can't understand why she feels the way she does but she 'knows' she doesn't have enough feelings for me so therefore can't see any way for our marriage to survive.
On paper it looks bleak, she says she doesn't love me and is not sure she ever has. There's no desire and without the 'feelings' she can't see any point in staying together. She's in IC and has a couple of self help books so she's trying but she can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Last week we went out for dinner, it was a nice night and in bed I waited to see what she wanted to do. She seemed keen to kiss and we had a very passionate night (one of the best and ALL bar one have happened since DDay) but the next day I noticed she seemed a little distant and cold.
Later that night I asked her if there was anything on her mind and we started to talk and I mentioned about the night before. For me, it was so good that it gave me hope that we can work things out. She said she didn't want to have sex the night before but felt she ought to as it was the natural end to a nice meal out. I said that she seemed very into it and it was very tender and loving and she finished with what felt like a strong orgasm so there must be hope as there is clearly something that is still working between us. She then dropped the bomb and said that she didn't have an orgasm, she wanted it to end so just pretended to have one (and later admitted it wasn't the first time she had done this).
This was the last straw for me and after talking about it a bit more we went to sleep but I snuck out and slept in the spare room. I couldn't face her the next morning and we didn't kiss goodbye and then I moved all my stuff out of the bedroom and into the spare room.
I can't see how we can come back from this. I still believe that her past is the problem (virgin till 26, 1 previous boyfriend, unable or unwilling to discuss anything so we didn't argue, unwilling to let herself go and enjoy sex (sees oral as 'dirty') and the list goes on). It's only now that she has had an EA that she is finally confronting herself and through IC may be able to find some reason for the way she is. I could easily walk and she tells me I deserve better but I can still see the wonderful woman I married in her and I do not want to give up until there is absolutely nothing left to fight for but she finds it so hard to even try (has only had two IC sessions).
What I really want to know is, does anyone so deep in the fog ever come out of it? Has anyone ever been on the receiving end of "I don't think I have ever loved you and I have no feelings for you" and been able to turn it around? Can someone like my WS dig deep and find what she thinks isn't there?
I'm trying to do the 180 but I am also aware that if I don't fight to save this marriage, she will just let it die without even trying. I feel numb right now.
Add me to the list as well. I believe that my MH's EA also turned into a PA, but he is not admitting. We are in MC and seems I am the only one trying...he keeps talking in circles/blaming everyone but himself and not admiting what he did. I am so sad and loney, angry and bitter, frustrated and exhausted. If he would just tell me and stop all the secretcy, we could focus on that and move on. Until then, we are spinning our wheels. Couple good songs....God Sent Me You, I get A Little Stronger, and The Man I Want to Be (A Good Man) have printed the lyrics out and gave the last first and last to WH and kept the middle one for me....and I do get a little stronger everyday...and maybe one day strong enough to say ??????
The more I read and experience about so called EA, the more I am coming to believe that they are not that dissimilar to plain old PA but the WS just can't bring themselves to admit it.
Mistakenly, they believe it is not a real affair without full sexual intercourse so they hide behind that defense. They indulge in everything but,so in reality it is a small technical difference.
My WS is claiming only an EA but every week brings more admittance of physical intimacy, they may not have had actually had sexual intercourse but they did everything but. Really? That helps? Who are you kidding? Not the BS, perhaps only themselves and their AP, I don't think they even believe it. It is just minimizing in it's most extreme form.
Worse, they gave their hearts and souls to another person, what warped mind convinces themselves that doesn't count as an affair? It damages more than the sex, if only they got that.
All they do is torture us to protect themselves. To be honest I am starting to believe this is the worst type of cheating because it is laden with excuses and justifications.
I am now taking the approach with my WS that I don't accept his ascertion that it was not a real affair because he didn't have actual intercourse. I am now treating it as if he did. Maybe he might one day find the strength to admit but for me and my personal integrity I am not accepting the BS any longer.
even thought they were "just" EAs...it hurts so much...
Count me in this "elite" group as well........
It will be 2 years in April that I found out and I am still angry at times. When I think that for a full year somehow conveniently he "forgot' to tell me about their meetings, their emails, the discussions on the phone ( the idiot would not even delete the calls from the caller ID) H hardly ever uses his cell so there are no texts to deal with. He started using his cell when I put my foot down and told him that he should tell her NEVER to call heir again blocking her number. When she could not longer call, then he started calling her...
He has not had contact in over a year even though he sees her once in a while through their mutual organization. I know the bitch personally and I had even invited her twice to spend New Year's and Easter with us since she has no family in town. Nice eh????
This was an EA that was vey close to becoming a PA. Had I not figured it out, it would not have been long. Even H told me once " who knows what would have happened in the summer had we not gone on an extended vacation" (double
To which I responded " we both know what would have happened in the summer."
In some way I thank my lucky stars i put a stop to it when I did.
I read all the posts from the very first ones to the very last one. I have one question: can anyone update us on your status?I wonder what happened to some of the older members..
Count me in too. I just found out 2 days before Thanksgiving. And I am getting the "I didn't do anything wrong" from him too. He said he told her NC on 11/28 & no calls or texts on his cell, but his data usage is 3x mine so I guess they're chatting online. Will updte as I know.
Sorry this is happening to you. You will hear a lot of lame excuses. Brace yourself. Remember to take care of yourself, no one else will do that for you.
I discovered my H's EA with a old HS gf 1/2010. I am forever damaged, I will never be the same. He might as well have screwed her because being emotionally attached to another woman was worse!! Of course he doesn't have to live with the triggers or not being able to trust his spouse. That's my burden in this mess. I love him, I stayed, but this 'thing' is with me forever. I wish everyone health, happiness, and peace because well, that's the least we deserve.
I recently learned of my wife's EA with an old HS boyfriend 2 states away. Not only do I have to suffer through this betrayal, she says she loves him and may not love me. We're trying to reconcile but I feel like I'm the only one in the boat. I'm hoping the fog clears, because I still love her.
My ex husband had an EA with a co-worker. I found out through using keyloggers, looking at emails, phone records, chat sessions etc. We did the whole counselling thing, seemingly got things back on track, I fell pregnant with our first child - only to discover that he was having another EA with the same woman over again.
I eventually discovered that my ex is a passive aggressive personality type, and the affairs were symptomatic of much bigger issues. That was the end of it for me.
Hopefuldad - have you been doing the 180 and focusing on yourself? Look in the Healing Library for lots of good advice from people who have been through the same thing you have.
I discovered my WS's EA with a Twitter "friend" in Canada when I overheard her Skypeing him 5 months ago. She was very ashamed and apologized and agreed to NC. Three months later I checked the AP's Twitter stream and saw she had hooked up with him again using a different username. She tried to blame me for the EA and said she should be able have intimate relationships with other men if she wanted since I didn't meet all of her many emotional needs. I was devastated by this double betrayal and decided to separate, but she cried and begged me to stay so I agreed to try if she would end the EA for good. We were already doing MC and she was doing IC with the same therapist, which I realize now was a conflict of interest by the therapist.
WS and the therapist tried to convince me that NC was not necessary since it was "only" an EA and the guy was in Canada and "not a threat to me". We tried setting "boundaries" like no flirting, showing me all her PM's, etc., but that only made it worse seeing all the time and intimacy she was giving him. I started seeing my own IC and telling two friends I was in incredible emotional and even physical pain (pounding heart, churning stomach, chronic insomnia). I Confronted WS and MC and insisted on NC, which WS resisted until last night, when she left the house to call OP and finally end the EA, returning at 4am this morning. I'm Still feeling shaken and battered. Thanks to this website and 2 dear friends I'm realizing I'm not crazy to feel devastated even though there was obviously no sex involved. Very grateful to you all. We're trying to reconcile but I'm having good days and bad days.
EA's are just as bad as PA's, maybe worse. My first wife had a PA and stayed with th AP, so it was a clean break. This is much worse and longer-lasting trying to R, she's in pain too and crying because she had to break up with the guy. We do love each other and are trying to be good to each other and repair the damage, but it's going to take a long time to get over the hurt and learn to trust her again...
[This message edited by TwitterVictim at 12:44 PM, January 25th (Wednesday)]
My WH had EA with his ex girlfriend which turned to PA for a night. and all this just when we were in the process of getting married.
The first thing I told my WH was that I wish it was only PA. That would have been easier to cope with.
They had had a turbulent relationship about 10 years back. They had issues which they didnt bring on the table. She needed someone so she got married to a guy from another country and moved there. He was hurt and offended and cut her out of his life but she wanted to be friends and end the relationship cordially.
Me and my WH were dating(long distance) for 3 years and decided to get married. We had discussed our respective pasts with each other. Just before the wedding for 6 weeks I moved to my hometown to organize our wedding.
She had sent him a fishing email few months back. He replied. He even discussed with his best friend who advised him to not get into it n not reply to her. She visited country for two months. They reconnected. Her sister had tried to commit suicide and she was seeking his emotional support.
I called him once when he was on his way to a hill resort. I thought it was a bachelor party. I trusted him blindly. Later I came to know she had planned it and he went along. Thats where they had PA. Next morning they had tempers flaring over old issues, he felt guilty and she tried to justify it for him but he cut her short. They fought and she accused him of making her vulnerable and leaving her to get married. she said that was his way of getting revenge though all this while she came on to him. later she said she didnt mean it and said all that only in resentment. he comforted her(this is my imagination playing with what I know of him, he's very emotional and whenever he says or does anything that hurts someone he wants to make it up to him/her). They decided to end the affair and be 'friends'.
We got married and even after that he went to meet her twice at a coffee shop telling me he has to meet some friends who came for wedding n will be leaving town soon. I wondered y couldn't he take me along too. That when i checked his phone and read his messages. When he got back I confronted him. Was a painful process to get it out of him. He called her the next day for NC. She was agitated. Sent him another fishing email. He showed it to me. She had written it was ironical and unfortunate that I found out when they had ended their affair and decided that he wud concentrate on his marriage. She wanted them to be frinds and asked him to mail her and write about his feelings. She also asked him to help her sister and counsel her at a coffee shop when she's gone. N she wrote she was worried for him that he must be going thru a tuff time and if it helped she cud write to me.
he cried to me that he had made a mistake. But he insists he had ended it before our wedding. But I still consider it cheating. He went and met her just two days into our marriage. Whereas this time should have been for us. He should have been beside me helping me cope with the change of a new city, new home and new people around me. he told me she had gone thru a lot.
Her sis tried to commit suicide. She herself is going thru therapy as she has unresolved issues with her strict parents. Y couldn't he see MY problems. I lost my mom at 9, My dad abandoned me, I have lived with strict grandparents too. I could have coped up with PA but EA is harder.
On the day of our wedding while he was traveling to my city he had text-ed her' traveling. thinking of u. replaying conversations.', n 'are u ok?'. It hurts, it hurts, it hurts. Dont want to look at my wedding pics. I feel our relationship was too weak for him to resist her fishing.
All this while , while he was in this EA he was very loving and caring to me. I didnt see any change of attitude. In hindsight it must have been his way of coping with guilt.
Here's wat i think of this EA. I will not consider it ended after our marriage till NC. U cannot be friends with someone u cannot meet along with ur wife. It bothers me he might have discussed our fights with her.
'Communicate to me. I really liked it that u reached out to me the other day. tell me how u feel'
she had written this in the email. I will hold it against him that he tried to fix her problems and never saw mine. took me for granted.
I am a newbie here. I found out about my WS's EA 6 months ago. The biggest problem I am having is there was no clue. We have had the best marriage for almost 30 years. The kind of marriage people comment on how good it is. We spend tons of time together by choice, have a great sex life and really have had NO problems what so ever in 30 years. He met the OW in the same building her works in. She spotted him and came up to him in the lobby, gave him her card and said...I would love to talk to you or have coffee..call me. And he did. Blow me away...would have bet a million dollars that would have never happened. They had daily contact...text, e-mail, meeting in the lobby for coffee etc. for 4 months. She asked if it could go further and he said no. She wanted to continue to talk to him because she said she liked talking to him...so he did. I know this is not the worst scenerio, as I have read alot of these situation and it could be worse. I am however really having a hard time with it. If I hadn't discovered it...I feel he would still be talking to her. They had some very long conversations on the phone...I found through phone records. He is very sorry...distraught at the thought of losing me and doing everything he can to help me. He really is a great guy but I honestly dont know if I could ever totally trust again. It took too much out of me to be betrayed that way. This is great to be able to tell my story. Thanks
Struggling3: If you hadn't found out he would be doing more than just "still talking to her".
You're husband may be going into a midlife crisis. Read up on it and see if there are any signs.
I have been married for 39 years and my marriage has had numerous problems. The EA was the worst.
You might get more responses if you post in General or Just Found Out. This thread is does not get the attention it deserves.
I'm sorry you find yourself here. I understand completely how devastating an EA can be.
Do you only have his word on this? No other evidence?
I dont know if I am responding correctly to this post because it is a little confusing to me. In answer to your questions: I have asked him if he would still be talking to her and he has said he honestly doesn't know. I saw records of phone conversations and everything else I know if from what he has told me. There has been no hesitation to answer any question that I have had. I also have considered his age and the fact that someone paid attention to him and really found him attractive (he gets plenty of that from me by the way) I have done tons of research and we have also seen a MC. The MC feels it was truly isolated and that he was just careless and after seeing how upset WS was that we truly can work through this. I am slowly feeling better but I just can't totally let it go. Some days are OK but some days not so much. WS had been super supportive, remorseful, constantly checks in...gave me all passwords etc. I really want to live in the present and make it work. We are extremely connected right now. But there is that part of me that is afraid to go all in. I hope that gets better with time as everyone says it will. Thanks for your encouragement
Sadly it looks like I belong here as well. If you want to know the first part of my story please read it in my profile. I just found out last week that I am pregnant and my WF had a double betrayal going on at the same time. I am now 4 weeks and 5 days pregnant and so stressed and scared. Here is what happened since last fall. WF and his ex, in October, had an emotional affair. I found this out in January. At the same time he was having another emotional affair with a woman he worked with. When I found out about his ex through his ex's mom he promised me he would try. And he seemed too. I had no idea about the second affiar going on. Then mid February I started to get pregnancy symptoms. We have had 5 miscarriages over the past2 years so I was worried and scared and stressed. He told me he suspected I could be pregnant and acted all happy. A few days later while I was making dinner he told me he was no longer in love with me. I was shocked. At first he said there was no one else but then admitted to having another affiar. He said he was in love with her. I demanded to talk to her. He called her and told me that if she didn't want to talk then I would not get the phone. But she did want to talk. And I quickly learned and so did she that he had lied to both of us. She told him it was over. She never wanted to see him agian. Within 24 hours he told me knew he was in love with me and was scared of his feelings. We found out for sure that I was pregnant the next day.
In January of 2011 he was diagnosed as being borderline personality disorder. We learned that basically the way he sees things is he tries to surround himself with people or events that will confirm to him that he is a bad person because that is how he sees himself. And that when he knows someone is healthy for him or someone truely loves him then he will do all he can to destroy that since it is too scary to handle the unknown. If not for the diagnoses I would be gone. But I also suffer from mental illness (post Tramatic Stress Disorder from a rape, Bipolar - low scale, agoraphobia and anxiety/panic disorder). If I expect him to accept me with my mentle health issues then I sould stand by him as he tries to over come his.
All on his own last week he quit the job he works at where he worked with the other woman. He then went out and bought a wedding ring to wear on his finger. All his choices. He says that this will remind him that he is taken and show other women that as well. He has also be talking more and listening more and has been b\very concerned about how I am feeling both physcially and mentally.
I don't know why I am posting other then I feel very alone right now, very stressed and very scared. I know I love him. As long as he wants to try then so do I. I know what it is like to be udge and deserted by people you trusted when they learn about your mental illness. I just don't know what else to do. I just feel lost and alone.
IF there is limited physical contact (sensual kissing etc) but not sexualised contact - is this where I belong - or is this a bit of a 'clinton' defence? would you think of the affair as physical if there is any physical element?
I feel like an idiot too. The EA went on for 4 years. I suspect it was a PA but I doubt I'll ever know. My kids were present. They told me when he was on the phone
with her and when she came over (when I worked weekends). They trained for triathlons together and went away together at least 4 times.I didn't realize until i started going to couseling cuz I knew something was wrong. He filed for a separation almost immediately. Says maybe we can eventually work it out. But he is not remorseful- says I drove him to it. He says time will tell. We have a counseling apt together for the first time tomorrow. an apt he made. It should be interesting. I can't imagine all of this is my fault. But I still sometimes feel like it is. The worst thing is my kids saw all of it. Him and her would do things with her kids and our kids and then say "we can't do anything if the kids are there". Yet they talked on the phone about 5 times a week. She divorced her husband a few months ago. Interestingly, him and her have the same attorney.
My h has had 2 ea's and my question is will I ever trust completely again? I'm so tired of the triggers that set off memories. Is it has only been a few months since the last 1 but we are reconciling.
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