Glad to hear your H is doing better. How frightening. And congrats on the driving .
I'm sorry. I wish I had something intelligent to say, but I don't. I'm just sorry it's so hard right now.
It's an article from the New York Times about regrets, how different people deal with them differently and how our methods of thinking about them or framing them affect our psychological well-being.
Not directly an LTA topic, but I thought it was interesting.
Hope everyone has a good day.
I am so sorry that your H has you upset. The lack of respect is wrong, especially since the two of you's talked about it before hand!
I'm not good at advice, but if your H knows that your bluffing about a D, then he won't take you seriously. I never threatened D, but I did pack up ALL his stuff in trash bags and put them out in the yard. My H lived out of his truck and at his parents for over a month. I sure made him think about things!!
Don't allow fear to prevent you from taking care of you. You need to show him how you want to be treated, by word and DEED. I understand... it's hard to let it go, but if it's meant to be it will be. Some time apart might be good for the both of you's.
JMO.... take it for what it's worth. I am here to talk any time, just haven't been posting much.
Sorry that you have been having a rough time as well. Is there something in the water or is it a full moon!!
Sure hope that it gets better soon. Like I told LH, I am always here, and I am keeping the both of you,s in my thoughts and prayers.
Will be gone this weekend, going camping with H, but I will be back on Sunday.
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
What they don't get is that an affair-riddled marriage is different now. There were certain "acceptable" slips of judgement, now there are not. You are holding him to a higher standard of behavior. And it's absolutely appropriate that you are.
I just don't think that there are "perfect" FWS. There are inate behaviors that they must control, sure, but learning to control them is going to take time and unfortunately for us, patience on our part. And yes,we have to be the grownup. Sucks.
As an amateur IC, I would have said an appropriate response to his breaking of the agreement would have been to ask him aside for a private moment and just said "I feel you stepped over the line by hugging her." (and again was it a polite hello hug or sustained?, we weren't there, we don't know and honestly your perspective is just that. His is another, somewhere in between is the truth) Please keep all further contact on a cooly polite basis or I will have to leave/make a scene/divorce you ... whatever consequence you see fit.
Now I'm NOT an IC and I'm NOT a reasonable, rational BS either, as you all know from my "handling" of the phone call incident.
But step back one moment and ask youself...(pre A knowledge) would this hug have been a huge fight later or would it have been an "I don't like this, but she's leaving soon and will be out of our life again" reaction? Is it knowing as we do now that EAs, long distance As, cyber As exist and we wonder if that's coming next? Do we know too much of what's possible, do we understand too much?
AS my IC asks me every week... am I never going to trust his judgement, am I going to question every word, every movement, monitor every thought of his and take it to the A conclusion every time? Is that any way for either WS or BS to live?
I don't know the answer. I just know my situation. I know that he regrets everything he ever did with those women, regrets ever deciding that was an option, hates he did it, knows he has changed me, changed our life, our future forever, permanently and can't go back and change a damn thing.
Maybe he knows that hugging her is not going to lead to anything. Right now he could hand over his balls to you before he leaves the house every day and you'd still wonder if he had a spare set at an OW's house.
This is a lousy way to live and I know it because I live it too. These kind of things usually turn into a stalemate with us, neither one of us giving an inch and the issue is never resolved and it just keeps happening over and over again. Change it. You and I are going to have to change before they will. Again, it sucks, but it's true.
LH, thinking about you hon.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I am so sorry. I cannot tell you what you should do as you need to choose your own path on this. I can tell you that I read what happened before my H left for work this morning and we had a chance to talk about it. He says that it is clear that your H does not "get it" or is choosing to defy your boundaries. My H said if he did this he would fully expect me to kick him out immediately.
I am not sure what is more hurtful in this situation 1) the hug 2) the incredibly immature stomping out of the party or 3) is completely insensitive comment about D *especially* in light of your mum's situation.
I agree with others that you need to go 180 with him and carefully, very carefully start considering your options. Only you know what is best for you. However, I strongly believe that this is an opportune time to show him that your boundaries are very clear. You defined them before the dinner and he purposely defied them. She may have initiated the hug but his response to you was insensitive (he could have come over immediately and said sorry but she wouldn't let go, etc).
You have been given some great words of wisdom by the tribe. We are all here. I will try to stay nearby all day if you need to talk.
(((UKgirl))) sorry to find you in a dark place as well. Yes, they didn't just trip into these affairs. They went looking for the for whatever reason. When my H finally admitted to himself last week at MC that he didn't care about me or the family it hurt so very deeply. But it was the TRUTH. Although what your H said hurts like hell, I think it is better to have him face that truth and deal with it rather than to stick to the airbrushed bullshit story. It might not feel like it but, if revealing and facing the truth can makes positive changes in him, it is progress.
First of all, I agree with BT that your H is probably not relaying the information his IC gave him accurately. And I'm not surprised. I think your H has a knack for hurting you, and I think he rather enjoys doing it.
As for the hug...Your H either doesn't have any concept of boundaries at all, or his are just waaaaay more lax than they should be in THIS marriage. Are you willing to accept that after everything you've been through?
I understand that it might be hard when someone is "coming in" for a hug to get out of it, but it is possible--if your boundaries are in place. It is quite possible to send off a signal that you are unapproachable for physical contact. If nothing else, he could have made it a quick one--with a tap tap on the back and release. It would have been obvious to you that he was "caught" instead of going right in like "I'm going to do what I want to do." But again--I'm not surprised.
Lost, you must remember that you cannot "fix" him. He will not change unless HE wants to. He has been showing you who is he this entire recovery time. He "plays nice" for you occasionally, but he resorts back to his normal self--which is someone unconcerned about the effect his actions have had on you and your marriage.
The comment he made about divorce is obviously an indication that he doesn't believe you'd ever do it--which can and will lead to more disrespectful behavior--up to and including another affair.
Your H continues to show you that presented with an opportunity that will hurt you, he will choose it if it suits him. NOT hurting you is not a priority for this man.
I don't believe he doesn't get it. I believe he gets it just fine. And so from that, you have to deduce that he does not have the value for your marriage that you do, nor does he value you.
You've mentioned many times that your IC would prefer it if you left him. You said here that she believes you will get further in your healing without him. Why do you suppose that is?
DL told me a long, long time ago that I needed to face my fears--that I needed to get quiet with myself and listen to what I was really saying in there. I think I spend a lot of time ignoring my inner voice--putting it in a box on a shelf--and waiting it out. Is this what you are doing?
What are you afraid of, Lost? And what are you really saying in there?
You deserve to be happy, Lost--however that may be. And you said it yourself--whatever happens, you will be fine.
You will be okay, Lost.
[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 9:42 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
In fact, H and his IC said that this is hindering his healing and growth, and it might be in his best interests not to be exposed to this, that he would be better off without me (like this).
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:37 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]
I'm off again, but will check back later.
My one bit of advise is to step back and not make any decisions until you are making them with a clear head. You owe that to yourself. You owe hi to make them with a angry head but as Weepy said, as much as it sucks, we ge to be the grown up.
I've been having a bad day here as well. We still haven't talked. I cried myself to sleep b/c he didn't initiate like I thought he was th eother night. Then of course, the next morning I get a rip roaring period with extra hormones on the side. Then today a friend called who has a f-up husband. He goes to ooters 3-4 times a week and she is pregnant with ehr 7th. She swears she beieves he hasn't cheated even though he comes in at 4 am and has all new friends who are all either single or married and cheating. Bt she believes he ells her everything. Yea, right. He helps none with the house and kids.
Anyway, another friend called to talk about her after had just talked to her. She went on about it and asked me wat I woudl do in her situation, not that my ws woudl ever do that (she said this), etc. It was all so emotionally draining for me. Then she went on about how she could forgive a ONS but never a relationship and blah blah blah. I just said you never knwo what you'll do i that situation adn left it at that. It was just all too much. And now Wh and I haven't talked about this stuff for 3 weeks so it's hard to bring up again and I am hurting and woudl like to tlak about it. Ugh.
Thank you,all of you. I am so wary about posting now because I know he will come on here and read it. He does this only when there is an issue between us.
I was quite emotional on my way to work, and started tearing when radio news gave an update on that poor family in Austria. That story has touched me so deeply, that I have to will myself not to choke up. Even today at work, they started to talk about it, and I had to walk away.
I smsed him to please leave me alone,(we usually have back and forth calls which are v emotionally draining and I didnt want to lose it at work) to which he replied did I mean no more status checks or that this M was over.So I replied "Your actions last night showed complete disregard and disrespect to me, this M and and what we have achieved thus far. I need time to assess what this means for us and this family. I suggest you do the same. Take care."
Today is my son's 12th bday. I know I have told this story many times but please bear with me.12 years ago I was told by my obgyn that my baby might now make it and to prepare myself. I had gone into preterm labour at 5 months brought on by the stress the previous 2 weeks by confronting H and OW#1, and their subsequent gaslighting. I was put on full bedrest but had to go to my mums as H wasnt able to look after me. Even though the doctor told him I was to be on strict bedrest, he still woke up next day per usual to go to work, and I asked him "What will I eat?The dr said for me not to climb stairs (kitchen was downstairs), what do I do? What if soemthing goes wrong?"This was my first pg.I was terrified. He said that he was late and he didnt have those answers. I guess looking back, he was still prob angry about the disruption I would have caused with the confrontation because they had to go deep under cover after that. I called my mum crying at lunch time, cos I was so hungry and scared to even get off the bed. She immediately told me that I was coming home, and I left that weekend and spent the rest of my pg there, thus giving H and OW free rein.
I had to take these tablets every 2 hours to stop the contractions.I wasnt allowed to leave the house as just taking a few steps brought on pain. And finally my DS was born.Absolutely perfect. It made everything I had gone through in the last few months worthwile. I looked into his big brown eyes, and I swear I fell in love immediately. Although the last 2 years have been rocky, our relationship prior was so special. He helped me bring up the girls by doing little chores. He would keep DD entertained when I was pg with DD2 and needed to rest. He would follow me around the house in the evening when I went around locking up, just to make sure that we were safe. When I finally decided to stop forcing H coming out, DS would sit in the front seat, reading out map directions. We found out 2 years ago when he was playing ball with my BIL, that I had taught him how to kick the ball wrong in football (i know sweetall about football). H was there and was suprised that DS didnt know this. DS didnt even get upset with me when I explained that i didnt know anything about football, just tried to copy tv, and I apologised. There were so many things that I wished he would have learnt from a man, and not his mom, and I did the best I could.
Our relationship has become a minefield in the time after dday. I rememeber being in a complete daze not so long after dday, and how he tried to help by making choc spread sandwiches for him and the girls for supper. I remember him pouring cereal for me for breakfast and watching me eat it, as I had stopped eating. He has seen so much and doen so much after dday, that he should never had to do. He has told me many times that he wishes we were back in australia and to the way we were (just the 4 of us). But I know that now that he knows H, and H knows him, that I have given him a gift of a father. A father who so obviously does not appreciate what he has been gifted.
I have IC tomorrow.
I want to answer your questions but like I said, i know he will read here and I really dont want to give him any ammunition.
I am scared. And so very very sad.But thanks to DS's bday celebs this evening, I have managed to keep in check.
It was a quiet dinner as H was at work. Just the 4 of us, just chatting. DS is over the moon with his presents. and to make it even better,both my sisters and BIL came over for dessert and to bring him his presents.It was a lovely evening and he is happy.
Thank you all.
And yes Run, I WILL be ok.
ETA: ((SoLost)). I think if you want/need to talk about it you should. I think it's important when you start to get to that place in healing where you know you can shove away that need to talk not to let that happen.
EETTAA: Shirley!! Glad to hear you put on-- er took off your??--your big girl pants and used the crap out of him.
[This message edited by brooke4 at 4:00 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]
You are so strong to hold it together for your family. Happy 12th bday to your DS. If you are worried about him reading here, PM some of us. I am around but am not one of the "wise ones". Maybe they will emerge and can *speak* to you in private.
"Your actions last night showed complete disregard and disrespect to me, this M and and what we have achieved thus far. I need time to assess what this means for us and this family. I suggest you do the same. Take care."
Beautiful. Perfect. You clearly stated that your boundaries have been violated and that you will not allow that to continue.
I wish I could be there to give you a hug. I am here if you need anything..HS
And BT has been holding my hand. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, BT.
And GOOD LUCK with those exams (I hope its not MAth again, urgh).
BT - you are a complete savior and a sweetheart.
Thank you every one of you for being here for me.
Now I am going to be stern with you and tell you what my IC told me.
She said I dont just dive into a meltdown unexpectedly. There are many signs posted along the way, which I choose to ignore, either because I dont want to rock the boat, or want H to approach me first, or I hope it will go away, or whatever. If I am tuned into my body and mind, then I will recognise these signs as warnings, and then do something to stop the crash. But I dont. Instead, I ignore them and before long, I am in the middle of a crash scene, wondering how I got here.
First off, make note of when your periods are due, cos I am incredibly sensitive before mine. Now what I do, is take a little extra care of myself a few days prior.Nothing special, just indulge in chocolate and books and crisps at the same time. And go to bed early.And I let H know what time it is, so he knows.
Secondly, you have been wanting to talk to H about your journal but you didnt. Honey, you should have brought it up, instead of letting it fester inside.It didnt have to be a long drawn out discussion if you didnt want it to be. Maybe you just wanted him to hear you out, you know? Maybe you would have had a discussion which would have been a stepping stone for you both.Maybe it would have ended in a duel. But at least you got to get it out.Talk to him.
thirdly, do you think that he didnt initiate because he has sensed that you are going through soemthing and didnt want you to think he is being insensitive? Or if he is like my H, he senses some conflict and runs! Ask him.
Fourthly, (I am SO on a roll! ), these friends....
SoL, you have been going through alot in recent times, and your emtional and physical health are not at its prime.
I am the one that my friends call when they need someone to talk to about their problems (hazard of my profession...lol). After dday#2, I withdrew from everyone, as I just couldnt cope iwth my problems and theirs. So many of them were going through infidelity (either as a BS or WS)and Iw as getting too emotionally distraught with their lives.
I felt bad for this, but I HAD to cut them off from my life, for my sake.I couldnt do it anymore.
Dont get cuaght up with your friends issues now, SoL. You are your main priority. If they are true friends, they will understand.
I hope I wasnt too stern with you.I just wanted to give you practical advice because I have done the same as you do.
Now go and communicate with your H!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LOVINLIFE!!!!
Hope you have a fantastic weekend.
Camping holiday huh?? No hairdryer, soft mattress, clean crisp sheets, room service...and this is a holiday???
Have a good one, Lovin!
I love you guys.
And his response (in fragments)
"I saw coming towards me with her arms open...I didnt know what to do....everyone was looking...I didnt want to look like an arse"
He doesnt remember leaning into her and closing the gap.He said it happened too fast for him.It was right in front of me...I saw it in slow motion.He said,"Whatever."
I said that we had spoken about it not even 10 minutes prior, addressing this very issue of hugginh, and he had said then, "So no hugs" and I was adamant about that.
There is no answer. Heck I dont think I am even asking the right question.He has not once apologised or behaved remorsefully since. In fact, he is walking around like the walking wounded, like I have hurt HIM.And Fnf, I will not demand an apology.
I know money isnt everything, but we are so screwed if we get D'd. With my salary,its the first time in yonks that we are not in the red. And being poor scared the crap out of me.Been there.Dont that. Never again.
I go for my hospital checkup today..for the lumps in my tummy. I know I am so overstaying my welcome in the good wishes dept here, but if you can spare a sec, remember me this afternoon.
Heck I dont think I am even asking the right question.
I spent a few minutes trying to figure out, if that was the wrong question, what the right question was and ended up thinking, damned if I know. And then I realized the question is: why were your (LH's) already clearly articulated feelings less important to him than avoiding looking "like an arse" in front of... who exactly?
Because I kind of think that when you boil it down, his sexual interest or lack thereof in this woman isn't the issue. It's that even when you've told him exactly what you need, in that split second of decision making, he chose himself.
Don't let him bully you, here, Lost. Please keep standing up for what you need.
A million good wishes for the hospital appointment this afternoon. I hope you walk out with your heart lightened about that at least.
Thank you for the B-Day wishes. It's really sweet of you to remember, especially since you have so much on your plate!
Just want you to know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. Think posistive thoughts.... it will be OK.
I will be climbing into fresh, clean sheets with Mr. Lovin the next 3 nites.... I call that the best vacation!!