I am telling you this so that you can get everything lined up to protect yourself, your family, your assets, etc. I am not saying you have to have papers drawn up but the attorney can advise you as to what records you will need, what evidence you will need, etc.
I agree with UKgirl that most times the OM doesn't want the WW "full-time". Once he thinks he will have to be responsible for them they are outta there. They signed on for the fantasy not for the real life relatioship and all of its struggles.
Weepy - NO WAY! You should consult an attorney but, if you go down that path, you can get a court order to have him removed from the home. You do not have to give it up. In addition, he will still have to pay CS. You have fought so hard for your M. Now it is time to fight for YOU. Do you have an attorney that you could consult about this?
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:07 AM, May 5th (Monday)]
I know one attorney.. she used to be our commissioner and I liked her. I have her card.
He finds out, I'm sunk. I think he can get vindictive as shit.
Plus I have to think of my kids, even if they aren't kids, they will lose their entire family. His mother has said on more than one occasion that if we divorce, she needs to have nothing to do with me...he is her son. And she rules that family. They will lose their cousins, their only grandparents, aunts, uncles. There's only one brother on my side.
This all just sucks.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I will be telling my attorney to move forward with D this morning. I live in a no fault state, and will come out alright in a D settlement. That's the reason I went to see the D attorney late last week--to understand my position and come to terms with it.
The 180 is saving my sanity. I joined a gym a couple weeks ago and even hired a personal trainer as I'm rather out of shape--a luxury I never would have considered when married but now feel I need to open up the financial taps a bit and do whatever it takes to take care of myself.
I've been going to an IC for two weeks as well, and will be seeing him every week for a long time to come, I'm sure. Even though I've only seen him twice, we really click, and I'm very comfortable working with him.
I've been reconnecting with a lot of my really good friends who I've sadly been neglecting for years. It's been amazing to me how solid many of my friends really are, how much they've reached out to me to support me. I know I've always been there for them, but it actually has me crying right now to think how lucky I am to have such good people in my life.
My parents know and live nearby, and have been wonderful by having me over to their house for dinner several times a week and providing me their unconditional love and support. I'm so fortunate that they're both still alive and in good health and live so close to me.
It is ironic how my wife told me that the OM said "he was OK if WW went back to her husband." What a joke. He can have her. Your points about it demonstrating his lack of commitment are spot on, and I didn't see that perspective at first.
I will continue proceeding with D and maintaining NC with my WW until such time as she terminates her A. If she does, then I'll consider my options. If she doesn't, which I suspect will be the case, then I'll be just that much further on the road to recovery and won't kick myself for having waited around.
[This message edited by GotToHaveHope at 8:42 AM, May 5th (Monday)]
My DD was married 2 1/2 months after d-day and had a lot of trouble trusting her H during those first months of her M due to her father's A. My H just couldn't understand this. They can't see how their actions have repercussions for their children's future relationships, especially their DD's. My DD idolized her father. He was her KISA and to find out that he was a cheater, of the LTA sort, was almost as devastating to her as it was to me. Her trust in men in general would have been difficult but to be married just months after the discovery was devastating to her. It infuriates me to this day.
That was a helluva thing to find out during your honeymoon phase. I hope she and her H have been able to work their way through it.
Thank you all for your support of DD. She was doing OK this morning. After a day at school crossing paths with bf and ow-in-training (classmate who knew about the relationship between DD and bf), it could be another story. What a rough weekend. It was a mini Dweekend all over again. The sobbing and the "whys" and the "hows". The bf feels horrible. I will give him some credit for coming clean right away, which is more than I can say for H. I figured I may have to deal with this some day, but I didn't think it would be so soon. We did manage a few laughs in between tears at the H's and bf's expense.
Our H's can be such asses and so utterly clueless. It's like their circuits just don't make the connections. I think even after we try to explain how clueless they are they still look at us with a totally baffled expression.
That would describe the intial conversation to a tee. H pretty much gave us space, while he went off and mentally kicked himself in the ass repeatedly. I think he just can't handle the reflection in the mirror. Too damn bad. As someone posted earlier "if you can't do the time; don't do the crime". I had been cutting him some slack because he had been going through so much with his Mother's mental and physical health issues and trying to deal with his arsehole brother, but we need to sit down and have a long talk.
H was on a roll this weekend too. On the local news they were talking about house foreclosures in the city where OW lived (and still does I believe) during the last half of the A. The PA part supposedly was happening in her apartment in that city. During the news story H looks over at me and asks me where that city is. I looked over and said, "You are kidding, right?"
Shirley, I read your H's response to the "Why did you do it" thread in Ww forum. He really seems to be getting IT.
UK, saw your pic, and you are a babe! I read your H's letter too. That man can pour on the prose. Now it's time to pour on the actions.
Just ignore everything they say and only pay attention to what they do.
Excellent advice! I wish someone would've told me this a long time ago too.
((weepy, snow, LTA Gang))
Shirley, I read your H's response to the "Why did you do it" thread in Ww forum. He really seems to be getting IT.
didn't know he had posted! Dashing off to see what he said....
I have not been around much lately and am not up to date but I wish you all well.
To Got To Have Hope, unless there are compelling reasons to try to R, go for the D and make a new life. Trying to R with a lta is difficult. I don't think that there is ever full recovery from a lta. At best, if there were alot of good things in the marriage, R is still difficult. My H seems to be totally remorseful and highly unlikely to ever be so selfish again BUT I still have times when I fall back into the hole of horror. I think that this will be a part of my life forever. On the other hand, we have a good life together. We have fun together. He is supportive when I lose it. We have a long history together and a family with babygrands. It is a pretty good life BUT there are times when I feel so bad about our history.
As a seasoned vet in all of this, I recommend that you only try R if your spouse is totally remorseful and if there was and is much good in your marriage.
As to the totally remorseful part, give it some time for that to happen. And imho, your spouse must come to see the op as a very ugly person. It took my h about 6 mos. or so for that to happen. If he still saw her in any good light, I could not reconsile with him.
Good luck to all.
And to all book contributers, "lets get going". I will be sending pm's to half of you and nas will be sending pm's to the rest. But if you are ready, don't wait for our pm's. Send us one telling us that you are still participating.
Wetto IC today instead of MC b/c H had a funeral. It went really well. I have been really wallowing in mind movies and such for the past few day with H having not done anything. I just came across an old journal of mine and triggered big time. she really taled to me about stopping all the pictures and thoughts in my head. Talked about how much work we have both done since we started with her 6 months ago.
I askedher at the end if I was crazy for doing this. Trying to keep it toegtehr. Did she know anyone whoe had ever gotten through it after such a long affair., She said she absolutely did know people who had gotten through it but it took a lot of work and time. She said she felt we wer doing a great job. She said it was very apparent to her that we both cared about and loved each other very much. Said neither of us woudl have put ourselve through this if we didn't. Not in our right minds. Said even she was exhausted after some of our sessions so she knows we are. Said she really felt we coudl do this. Tht was very helpful.
It sounds like you have such a huge burden internally. You KNOW we are here to support you. But I had to pipe and tell you 1) don't be so convinced that you would be forced to leave that house and 2) even IF you were to leave, a home is a lot more than the bricks and pretty garden. Even if you were living in a "dive" of an apartment, if YOU are happier and thus a better mom it could be more of a "home" than the one you have know, KWIM?
I'd consult an attorney and don't consult one that your H would know, if possible. Remember, even your "initial consultation" with an attorney is protected by the attorney-client privilege. Be cautious and cover your tracks. GO in and get KNOWLEDGE. Knowledge in your case means power. Power to know what your options are. Right now you are just guessing.
I am writing you this letter as part of a personal process to bring closure to a long, sad and confused chapter of my life. In it I set the record straight from my perspective about what it is you and I had. I also write this as part of my admission and acknowledgement that I never loved you, that what I did was wrong and I am deeply ashamed, that I love my wife, and that I destroyed the most important thing I ever had which was her tremendous love for me.
What did you and I have? After much introspection, I realize that I had low self esteem and was looking for external affirmation. I was selfish, self centered, immature and felt entitled and was looking for instant gratification. I didnít care about the impact of my decisions because I was only focused on me. You were a character in a fantasy I constructed. You were someone willing to have sex with me pretty much anytime, anywhere. We had sex in the woods, in cars, in your houses, in your parentsí house, in my house, and in hotels. You brought blankets, condoms, tents, food. I created a sexual fantasy and you were there and willing. You fed all those selfish needs I had. It was hollow and fake because it was not based in reality. What you and I had was a lie.
I never loved you. Based on my actions, you must have known. In between sex, you and I had lunches, some dinners, saw each other at company functions, and often drove around and around looking for parking lots where we could have sex. During those times we spent quite a bit of time talking. But what did we talk about? We talked disparagingly about our spouses. I remember you telling me how dissatisfied you were with your relationship with your husband and how unfulfilling your sex life was with him. How sad I am that I said some of the same things about my wife. But that talk was all part of justifying the fantasy. We spent time in idle talk about people from the office, about your sister and brothers, about our parents and families and upbringings. But what was that really? It was just filling time in between sex. We werenít talking about anything real because we were in the midst of a horrible, hurtful lie. I donít remember the first or last time you and I had sex. I donít remember ever giving you a gift. I donít remember ever writing you a note, letter or card. I couldnít remember your birthday or your interests because I didnít care. I slept with one of your best friends from work in the midst of our affair because I was drunk and I didnít care. You and I were not interacting in reality. It was just a fantasy and you were there and willing.
What I did was wrong and I am deeply ashamed. I had to move my daughtersí baby seats so I could put the rear seats down in order for us to have sex in my wifeís truck. I had sex with you in your sonís pup tent and your daughterís room. I brought you into my wifeís house Ė what a profoundly hurtful act. I derailed my career because of the time I spent away from the office with you and because lots of people at work suspected our affair and some were certain of it. I looked my wife in the eyes and lied to her by telling her that I was not having an affair. I lied to my family, my friends and my colleagues. When you and I drove around I would duck my head for fear of being seen. I trampled my wifeís profound trust and violated my vows to her. I stole precious energy from her and squandered it. I brought a scourge into the lives of my beautiful, innocent daughters. I ruined the innate foundation of paternal trust they had for me and I risk losing them forever. I lived in the darkness of lies and deceit and violation that eroded my soul. And for what? Momentary sexual gratification. But it was wrong and hurtful and demeaning and disrespectful. It was tragic because it was abusive to my wife, to my family, and to me. It was wrong, disgusting, and shameful.
I love my wife. Now that Iíve done everything in my power to lose her and my family, I understand that I loved her deeply all along. I took the greatest thing in my life completely for granted and only now see my deep love for her blossom anew because it is no longer smothered by lies. My wife wasnít bad, I was. What I thought was friction between us came because I had turned from her, distanced myself from her, stopped communicating with her, stopped giving her the best part of me. It wasnít her causing problems in our relationship. It was me. She tried everything she could to understand what was wrong. She still is trying like hell to understand this. She is a great and loving and compassionate woman that I lost sight of because I was selfish, self centered, immature, and mean-spirited. I chose to live in a narcissistic fantasy of self-gratification. What I did can never be made up nor forgotten. Iíve stamped this on my family and me forever.
As you know, I told my wife about our affair. I told her everything I remember. I couldnít live with the lie bottled up inside anymore because, even though I thought I was living my life, I realized I wasnít. The realization that I was a passenger in my own life terrified me because it gave me a glimpse into the profoundly terrible and empty place I would end up if I didnít start living honestly. And I realize now that only through truth can I start to truly live. And I realize it was the only fair thing to do for my wife, my family, and me, no matter how painful.
I love my wife more than anything in the world. I wiped away her love for me and destroyed her ability to trust me. But I am doing everything I can to earn her back. I am working hard to change the way I am because all I have left is the future. I no longer accept being a man with no integrity. It is a difficult journey, but it is the most important thing I have ever done. I pray every day that my wife can find a place in her heart to forgive me.
I would hold onto that letter and keep it for my own peace of mind. She doesn't need to know any of that. Why let her in on anything going on in your life. Why let her in on his deepest darkest thoughts and shame. She doesn't deserve to know anything more about him than she does.
This letter was for YOU and to you. You're a lucky woman.
Shirley, your husband is doing so much work on himself! Congratulations for that.
I'd keep that letter for yourself and wouldn't share it with OW either. She doesn't deserve to read it, and she wouldn't "get" it anyway. Surely, there'd be a lot of eye rolling, and no doubt she'd feel the need to contact him and say something derogatory about it.
Remember that she's a nothing. Treating her as such sends a much louder and clearer message.
And books? Have you read "When Good Men Behave Badly" or "Blessings From the Fall"? Those were a couple of good ones.
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
I haven't read either of those so will pick them up this week. Do you guys use the Amazon link here? How does that stay anonymous if we are then giving them name and credit card number?
for the first time recently I can see a scenario under which this may work
Your just keep on keepin on advice may have saved our marriage.
I'm glad it helped. I keep trying to stick to my own advice.
How have you been?
I've been busy with home "projects". Just finished a big one and can feel my mind racing back to reality.
Still hoping to learn to live in the now and appreciate what he's doing NOW. It's just really hard for me to do. I'm reading "The Power of Now" by Eckhard Tolle and he talks about the "thinking" person and how they let thoughts of past or worry of future hinder them. Yeah--that's me alright. Mind chatter. I hope the book starts telling me how to do something about that soon because he's starting to make me feel like I'm hopeless!
Wow, what an amazing letter. Sadly I don't expect to ever hear anything even remotely close to that coming from the lips of my WW. It's wonderful, though, to know that for some couples such a beautiful R can take place. Just not for me.