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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Lost Heart))))

Sorry I was gone driving the kids to soccer, tennis, etc and just got back on. I know I don't have the experience of others but can I try to parse his statement?

When asked what would he do in my sitch, he said first off, he wouldnt even be in this sitch,


First, he IS in this sitch. He created this sitch. This is not your sitch it is his sitch and it is his responsibility to do whatever is necessary to fix it. If he is not able or willing to do that, game over. If he is referring to himself being in your sitch that again is not a realistic statement as he has never been there and cannot accurately predict what he would actually do. How many of us ever thought we would try to reconcile after learning the truth? I told my H that the one absolute in our relationship was no other women. Well, he didn't exactly stick to that boundary But, I am still here and trying. Tell him to shut the fuck up until he has walked a mile in your shoes. (okay, vent over).

because if I cheated, he would have kicked me out,(he wouldnt be so stupid as to stay with me if I did to him what he did to me),

He is telling you what to do, either be "stupid" or kick him out. Call his bluff. Go to him and say calmly and simply "Thank you for your advice, I never thought that you understood my point of view so well. Given that you KNOW that what you did was wrong and that your behaviour was despicable and that you yourself would ask me to leave, I am doing the same for you. Obviously, you will understand my point of view." He just backed his sorry ass into a corner and, if I was there for you LH, I would throw the last blow. Do not let this sit...he is abusing you and challenging your weaknesses.

and secondly, if he asked me NOT to hug someone (or any other scenario similar), and I did it anyway, then this M would be over, or in serious serious trouble.

Jesus, he is like a little boy saying "look mom, I did what you told me not to do. Are you going to punish me or not?" He MUST have gotten away with murder as a child to even make this statement. Again, I would tell him that he is right, he should be gone.

He is not fence sitting. He is fencing. He is killing you with a thousand tiny cuts. He is playing on your fears and your emotions. I really hate him right now and wish I could kick his ass.

(Okay, if you have already resolved this ignore the above. I am worried about you sweetie and want to protect you right now.)


ETA: BT posted before me...read and listen to her. She is so much wiser.


(((((LostH)))))

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 5:55 PM, May 6th (Tuesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was feeling very certain about what I wanted to do, but now I'm suffering from a lot of doubt and uncertainty. I'm racking my brain to think of one compelling reason not to move forward with D and coming up completely blank, but yet part of me is still agonizing over doing so.

GotTo - you are still so close to dday that what you are feeling is the mourning for the M that you thought you had. You rationally know you are making the right choices but emotionally your brain is saying "what the fuck happened?". Keep looking out for yourself. Keep posting here. I felt exactly what you are feeling - like my entire world had shifted sideways and I was falling off. Make sure you keep eating, exercising and sleeping and one step at a time.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I first want to say welcome to the newcomers, you will be glad you are here.

I am sorry to hear that it has been a rough and rocky road for so many. I wish I had some words of wisdom, and with my advanced age I feel like I should.... but at this moment I just don't.

LostHeart,
I am very angry at your thoughtless H. He is SOOO calling your bluff, and that is wrong---- plain and simply stated. I know you are hurting, but you need some time for you. Seperating for your sanity is worth it, If your H can't or won't love you in the way YOU need, then it's time to LOVE YOURSELF!
If it were me, I would have packed him up a long time ago, because if it's meant to be, then he will do everything to come back home.
You have such a kind and loving heart and he continues to hurt you.... don't let him.

Remember, when God closes a window, he opens a door.

Life is too short to spend it unhappy.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Angry  Posted: 6:09 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate him and his smug ass "Looks like I won again" attitude.

You know what Lost, I DO think they are asking us to call their bluff. We have got to somehow draw that line and not just stand by it, but set up the barbed wire and machine guns.

I know what I plan to do. And the 180 has been firmly set in place yet again. I even wound up on the couch in the middle of the night without a single comment from him this morning. He acted like nothing was wrong. No questions, nothing. Actually seemed quite happy. Tonight, I sleep in DS room. (Unfortunately he comes home on Saturday). If I feel really pissy, I might put his little lingerie ad under the covers on my side of the bed.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,

"We have somehow got to draw that line and not just stand by it, but set up the barbed wire and machine guns."

You are quite funny..

But so very right.

If the H's wanted to leave, don't you think they would have? Especially if they were so unhappy... then why are they still there? Maybe because they want to be???

Sometimes I think that too much time can be spent on talking a subject to death and it gets us no where. There came a time for me when I just had to let it go. It was in the past, and I needed to live today.

It doesn't mean I've forgotten, or forgiven, but it does mean that I am willing to take a chance and see where it goes.... to let the future take care of itself and live for today. And it has been helpful. We hardly ever argue or fight anymore, and when there is an issue, we ask ourselves, 'is this a deal breaker?', and most times when we really think about it, we realize it isn't.

I am 51 years old and I want to enjoy my time here on earth. I want to laugh and love and be happy. I have been blessed with 2 wonderful kids, 4 siblings, and some terrific friends. I have my health, my home, and my job. If this marriage doesn't work for some reason, my heart will be broken... but I don't need him to live! KWIM?

Sorry so long, just had some things to get out...


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the H's wanted to leave, don't you think they would have? Especially if they were so unhappy... then why are they still there? Maybe because they want to be???


I hear this all the time from H, only with the negative spin, of course...
"if I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't be."

But what is he here for???? is the question... security, the cooking, the cleaning, a home, the kids??? What? It's supposedly been what 5 years since he fucked anyone else, yet he still doesn't want me? WTF is up with that? He says he JO's 3x a week "because it's just something we do." And I say it's fine IF we also have a sex life... apparently he doesn't want one.

Well, I do. So my line is drawn. His suggestion that I take care of myself if the frequency is a problem will happen today. When he calls, and he will, always does, I'll tell him "I can't talk, I'm having sex with a swimsuit model, call back."


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

What is the alternate approach? I would say that it is to stop the hostility.

I think Lovinlife hit it right on the head when she said that at some point you have to let it go enough to enjoy life. When you have done that with Mr. Lost in these last few months, you all have had good times, haven't you? So why not try to do that on a more or less constant basis.

What I found is that my husband didn't start to make the real, hard changes at a deep feeling level while I was busy reminding him constantly of the terrible things he had done. He couldn't, because he felt so attacked that he only wanted to defend himself.

When I stopped that, when he was not constantly defensive, he was able to look at what he had done and see the real, hurtful nature of it. He didn't stop looking at it as we all fear. Instead, he was free to really look at it and understand it for the first time. And it really changed him.

From then on, I did not have to ask him to do things, he did them because he understood their importance and he wanted to. He wanted to make amends. As long as I was castigating him daily for his crimes against our marriage it basically absolved him of the need to do it. When I stopped, he took over.

So stop. Put it down and let it rest. You've said everything by this point, haven't you? If you're like me you've said them so repeatedly you're even sick of it. Try, instead, to speak positively from the heart and to understand instead of drawing blood. You be the lighthouse, and take the lead in this and I think it will give him the breathing space he needs to do the same.

Your hostility protects you, but it also isolates you and turns your marriage into a battlefield rather than a place of rest and security. I think you are strong enough to do this unilaterally, Lost. You have already taken from him the worst that a husband can do to a wife, and you survived.

Why should you have to go first and to take the risk when he was the sinner? Because you are an adult human being who is not afraid to go after what she wants in a meaningful way instead of waiting for someone else to do it.

Give it a month of doing this and then assess how it is working for you. Don't expect perfection from either of you, just try to assess the problems calmly when they come.

And look for a new MC. There are some good communication exercises that you can do that will help you all immensely.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I found is that my husband didn't start to make the real, hard changes at a deep feeling level while I was busy reminding him constantly of the terrible things he had done. He couldn't, because he felt so attacked that he only wanted to defend himself.

When I stopped that, when he was not constantly defensive, he was able to look at what he had done and see the real, hurtful nature of it. He didn't stop looking at it as we all fear. Instead, he was free to really look at it and understand it for the first time. And it really changed him.

BTDT got the T-shirt, it only made him a bigger asshole, smug, thinking it was "all over", feeling free to criticize or judge every little thing I did wrong, like it was his turn now. I did it for a month while he was training, was exceptionally understanding of the "stress", the extended hours, the odd meal times, making him lunch, sending him off with a smile and a kiss. And what did I get for that?

Him up to his old tricks of hiding things and sabotaging our sex life. Yeah, what did I get for "letting go?" a child still pushing boundaries to see how much he can get away with again.

Not all of us are blessed with H's willing to grow, change. I think there's quite a few who would think "wow, TG that's over, now I can get back to my porn and titty bars, obviously she's not going to leave."

See, not all of US handled the Dday situation "correctly" either, we had no resources left after being humiliated and degreated and abused for years by the person we loved and trusted. I think I'd have a totally different situation on my hands if I'd asked him to leave or I'd been stronger.

My IC asked of me the same thing you ask of LH, stop the hositility, what happens if you don't react "as usual", if you try to bend instead of being rigid. Well I found out. I should have reacted the way he does "with a firm hand, taking no nonsense". Think I would have been able to get away with not answering HIS questions or with telling him "you'll just have to trust me or not" ? Hell no.

I think the answer is in forgiveness, not just a temporary ceasing of hostility... or a truce. But if they don't want it or even care if you do, then the impasse will stand.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,

You are absolutely right, not everyone is willing or able to change. If your husband reacted to your attempt at kindness with hostility, then perhaps it is time for you to decide how to leave. Or to decide how to stay without making yourself heartsick over it.

The one thing I don't think you want to do is continue on as you are.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the main thing here we are trying to get to is constancy. The drip drip effect of keeping to the boundaries you want to have and those boundaries need to be respected while trust is being rebuilt. If you met someone socially and a friend said they’d trust them with their life savings, would you free up all your assets and give them to your new found friend to look after? Of course not. Well, our WS’s have run off with all in the trust bank, and now they’ve got to start again from scratch. They are not who we thought they were.

I read something about trust and its elements. They are: reliability, predictability, honesty, loyalty, commitment and shared boundaries. In any relationship, all those ingredients make up the trust. It’s a bit like dealing with children. I have never been able to do with the shouting and hollering, the banging doors, throwing things, etc. I have never really had debates with my kids. If they don’t agree with MY boundaries, they have to come up with a damn good reason for me to agree to a compromise. And my boundaries became more elastic as they got older and showed that they could be trusted. Hasn’t worked all of the time - #3 son is a prime example of trouble on a stick and a liar to boot. But the one, two, three rule still applies. One, I’d ask nicely, two, I’d tell them and spell out the consequences and three, I’d administer the punishment. Generally, I don’t say something unless I mean it. So when I have finally decided which door I’m going to walk through, I will not be looking back at this catastrophic time in my life and wish I’d done something different. Shut the door behind me, post the key through the letter box and move on.

I really hope that if my H was to treat me with such disrespect, he would only do it once. Well, he has, hasn’t he??? How much more disrespectful could he have been, going off and f*cking someone else?? So, rambling away here, I’ve kind of answered my own question or possible dilemma that LostH has sort of posed.

LostH, Weepy, I think I’m trying to say, stay strong and be consistent. For you. Make your life as you want it and let him know he can join you – or not. If not, then aim to get the best revenge and be happy and live a good life.

Getting off my soapbox now.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just got my latest email from the "infidelity coach" and I read them sometimes, but today, this hit the nail on the head about my H's affairs. I only wish I knew the answer and since he is clearly this personality, I don't know that there is reaching him until he has hit that final, all encompassing consequence.

Infidelity and Sexual Addiction: I Can't Say No!by Dr. Huizenga - The Infidelity Coach
I assume, although I haven't completed any research, that most people, at least those who have not experienced infidelity in a relationship of investment, believe that infidelity is mostly about sex.

Infidelity does have sex at it's core, or at least the phenomenon of developing a strong attraction to another.

So, sex or "chemistry" or sexual/emotional attraction does play a central part in infidelity.

However, this attraction takes on different flavors and different mind-sets for different kinds of infidelity.

In my Ebook on infidelity, Break Free From the Affair, I outline 7 types of affairs or marital infidelity.

The second type of these affairs I expound on is: "I Can't Say No!"

This type of infidelity has at it's center the pull of sexual addiction. The role and place of sex in infidelity cast different shadows the other kinds of infidelity.

Let's take a closer look at Infidelity and Sexual Addiction in the "I Can't Say No" affair.

The first question: People truly can't say no?

I beleive we all have the capacity to choose and say no, if need be.

However, some appear to lose that capacity, or strongly believe they lose that capacity over a period of time. (BINGO! he thinks everything is random or destined. He has no control.)
The first step in Alcoholics Anonoymous points at one's powerlessness over the object of addiction.

For some, it appears they come to a point of being entirely incapable of saying no to a strong object of desire. (7 years... 50+ partners, yeah, Id say so)

Let's take a look at some characteristics of this kind of infidelity.

1. With this kind of infidelity, sex takes on an inflated or huge role. Sex is an urge onto itself and becomes a powerful and motivating force for one's behavior. (He was into compulsive porn along with compulsive, obsessive, frequent sex)

Acting on one's sexual impulse becomes a frequent activity. Sexual release becomes the ultimate goal. There is also an element of sexual conquest or the need to seduce and "score." A game is played out (online, in a bar, etc.) and the other person is pursued until s/he is "had." This may or may not include sexual intercourse. (I truly believe he "got off" on the # and age and beauty of his conquests, and that his GF couldn't get enough of him.)

There is often a progressive nature to the flow of "I Can't Say No." Sexual fantasites may lead to pornography collection or later obsession with pornographic material. Online relationships which may lead to clandestine meetings. (He started with porn, then infrequent sex with hookers, then an all out weekly -- or more -- sexual affair)

One grabbed by sexual addiction may move from pornography to strip clubs, to multiple partners and other forms of intense and/or dangerous sexual acting out. (duh!)

2. The "I Can't Say No" person is bound by fear. (My IC says the following is all true of him )

There is a fear of being exposed, of getting caught. In the background is the knowledge that "getting caught" most likely will mean significant consequences for either/or his family, work and reputation.

There is the knawing fear that "something is not quite right with me." My obsession with sex is too much. I'm either not "wired" right or there is something wrong with me.

Shame and guilt are two underlying themes that perpetuate the hiding, denial and cement the seeming powerlessness over this force.

3. Because of the guilt and shame there is a desire not to engage in his/her obessessive sexual activities.

After the act (rendevouz, sexual release, etc.) s/he may feel terrible and promise to him/herself that, "That's it! I'm done. No more. I don't want to do this." (H said he did this often, only to fall back into it after only a few weeks of NC)

(If his/her spouse knows of the activity s/he promises to his/her spouse after the acting out episode that s/he will not do that again. This may be said with heart felt tears and remorse.) (I think THIS is what I saw after Dday)

However, such good intentions often fall prey to the power of his/her urge(s) and s/he acts out again (perhaps each time in a more destructive manner.) (And he's doing it again, only just not having sex with a real person, dspite knowing how destructive it is to our relationship)

One can readily observe a promise/failure cycle that ebbs and flows.

There is a"roller coaster" and succession of broken promises.

4. Others are devalued and used or seen as objects for personal gratification.

The "I Can't Say No" person has extreme difficulty forming a truly intimate relationship. (Again, duh!)

After all, to be in a truly intimate relationship means s/he must disclose some of his/her internal struggles and that often, to this person, seems beyond the realm of possiblity.

5. There is often a history of confusion or trauma related to his/her sexuality.

The confusion a child experiences in a home where sex is associated with abuse or extreme confusion, carries along with him/her that pain and confusion. (I believe there is something here he is not telling me... see #4 above)

Future relationships become the testing ground to try out his/her attempts at somehow discovering the essence of his/her sexuality.

Often the original pain and confusion is played out in sexual relationshps within a marriage or in the case of someone who says, "I Can't say No" an extramarital affair (or string of them) or some other external form of sexual acting out.

6. A person who "Can't Say No" frequently dwells in a world with distorted thinking. (His paranoia, assumptions, cynicism and bastardizing of the Serenity Prayer)

Their world is perceived through the filters of their addiction or through the hold that sex has for them.

To defend themselves from the pain of their guilt, shame, pain and confusion they rationalize their behavior and discover ways of minimizing or explaining their rather odd persist sexual behavior to others, especially to those with whom they have an emotional investment. (Yeah, the all men do this)

But he doesn't go on to say how the couple reconciles with this kind of issue, especially if the man doesn't admit to having this issue.

Can't Say No fits right into my theory that he feels powerless or intimidated by people of strong will or conviction. He's envious of other's power and deals with it by denegrating them... the rich, politicians, learned people, me. Nothing more degrading than losing your H to whores and Kmart bra ads, right?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy, if that is the case and you have found all those tick boxes to categorise his behaviour, personality type and basic faults, how do YOU fit into his life? Are you there as his constant whipping boy? What do you represent to him if all the others represent sexual conquests?

But the most important thing now, has he learned the art of not only saying no, but actually not wanting it anymore? And I think that has to be the case for all WS’s. They have to realise that shagging a willing woman with no self respect (or simply doing it for money) does not equal “success”.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately alot of SA men fall into this category and for many, like I think my H, it's either all or nothing. He knows he can't have anyone else now. Or lose it all, he knows that, not that he doesn't want them, he knows he can't...... or he has to be very, very, careful, which he can be. so he "satisifies" himself with flirting and solicitiousness (is that the word?) and syrupy sweetness with all other females. They love him. I think I've said it before, if any of you met him, and not known his background, you'd love him. He could charm an Eskimo out of his boots.

You know I'm not a conquest any more, we're married, I'm his wife and always willing partner (Well, I might be now since I've given up on sex with him) but that might work to my disfavor too.

I think I'm just sad that he doesn't get it, never will and I can't help him. I have to accept that. And then someday move on because it's not going to change.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’m still not wearing any rings and I probably won’t again.

I might be in the eyes of the law, but I’m not in my heart.

I'm right there with you, UK. That contract was broken again and again.

((weepy)) do you think your H needs that thrill of the forbidden to get aroused?


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG, Conversly he's the most prudish guy I've met in that regard. At least with me, if I even get a little frisky outside the proper forum, he's embarrassed and asks me to stop and behave.

Not that I've done any of that lately, of course.

But yeah, I've said from the beginning, I'm not his "type". He always went for the nasty girls. Whatever would shock Mommy, the dirtier, the better.

I was one of those good on the outside, nasty girl behind closed doors. But that changed after 15 years and 2 kids and a failing business and bill stress etc. Yeah, our relationship changed. But when we'd send the kids to camp, I was all over him on the ride home, I mean we weren't even out of the parking lot.

I absofuckinglootly cannot be his whore any more. I can't compete. Then it was just an "illusion" and both of us could go along with what we thought it would be like. Now he knows and I'm not it. I think it's more disappointment and resignation on his part now.

And NOT having anything to look forward to on that front sure doesn't make me WANT to make an effort, so I look worse and get more depressed and less interesting to look at or be around.

I'm just too angry to even think straight this week.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy, my story with my WH is similiar to yours in that I was sooo nice and forgiving and lets start over and HB for 5 months while he did next to nothing and then told me he wasn't going to do things for me I asked because "I should do it (HB) because I want to and because I love him so much not to get something back."

That was when I realized he was utterly clueless and would never do anything for me. 5 months after finding out about multiple LTA's, finding out he had been carrying on with 2 women at the same time, sitting right next to me and calling them, etc., and him doing virtually nothing to make up for it including not telling the truth 90% of the info I found myself and contradicted his story, not being remorseful, not doing whatever it took.

After the 5 months I felt used and manipulated and like the biggest jerk ever. That was last July. In december I contacted a lawyer, he begged for another chance. I wrote out a contract and made him sign it spelling out exactly what I wanted him to do, like listen do what I ask him to do for me, put me and our marriage first. I gave him 3 months, until 3/31 and if he was not doing this it was over. I moved back into our room, resumed sex with him, treated him like everything was great, for 3 weeks. He still had done nothing for me, would agrue every time I asked him to do something for me, and we are talking minor things like I want to go here at 9 am instead of 10 am. Big argument, why what does it matter who cares if we're late, well I do that's why I said it! Told me I was not fair and changing the rules because the contract gave him 3 months and I didn't give him all his time!!! I explained to him that he was to do these things for three months, to try his hardest, try like a man who was about to lose his wife, because he was, not wait until 2 months and 29 days had gone by and then do something.

So, I gave up. We barely talk, I sleep on the couch. No sex. Money is really rough because of his many mistakes, liking buying a new vehicle behind my back and lying to my face and calling his whore 3 times the day he did it when I had made it very clear we could not afford another new car payment. I was told "I don't have to live my life according to what you say"
so he tells me why can't you be my friend and support me?, now that his decisions have blown up in his face and he has ruined us financially. Um, well you have never been my friend and supported me, I don't support you and your decisions, and look how well that worked for me in the past.

They manipulate and take advantage and use. Use us use the OW. All that matters is their feelings, their happiness.

BT now all WS are remorseful, caring, or fair. Some are such damaged human beings they see kindness as weakness and something to be exploited. They use the opening to take advantage and use their BS yet again. There is no care concern consideration or empathy for the BS and their feelings, it as all about them. I really think my WH has NPD, i look at him and think he is not capable of having any understanding of my feelings and that I hurt, etc. He cannot understand anything but his own feelings, his own wants and needs. And when you are nice, they are not nice back. My WH gets cocky and arrogant and he's all that and hurts me more. Sick, sick sick.


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's interesting the prudishness with you. Maybe it's the Madonna whore complex/syndrome. I thought maybe with the hiding of the porn and the ads, and earlier on, the sneaking off with hookers and the OW, he was getting aroused by it being forbidden.

Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the support Steeler. Sometimes I think I’m being a hard vindictive b*tch, but my “true to myself” ring means a whole lot more to me than a wedding band, even if it is on the ring finger right hand and the ring finger left hand is still bare. At least the narrowing where the 22ct barrel band is not so obvious now. If I was to wear it now, it would be a weight too much to carry. If he offers, I might get a new one, but how could I replace the one my Grandmother wore? I think my Mum might notice, for starters!

Weepy

You know I'm not a conquest any more, we're married, I'm his wife

Exactly. So what does that mean – to you and to him? Obviously you are not a “conquest”, I didn’t mean to imply that in any sense. But a long term partner is something else, isn’t it? So what do you represent to him? What does the being his wife mean?

I absofuckinglootly cannot be his whore any more. I can't compete.

Were you ever? Aren’t you something completely outside of his usual view of women and womanhood?
Maybe it's the Madonna whore complex/syndrome

Maybe you’re even on a pedestal of some sort. I don’t know what sort, one he’s always taking pot shots at.

After reading Snow’s posts, I think I might take another look at “Why woman talk, men walk” I only dipped in and then went back to my comfort blanket book “After the Affair” (Relate counselling, I think it’s diff to the US book title).

The cooker and DS4 need seeing to. Check in later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Snow,

I didn't change myself hoping to change him. I changed because I hated the angry, sharp-tongued woman that I had become. I realized that I was trying to force my husband into some image I had for him in my head and I realized just how controlling and grotesque that was.

I didn't have the right to do that, and I didn't want to be that person anymore.

My changes were for me. The changes in him were a side benefit. And I believe that was very evident to him, the difference between me changing to be the person I wanted to be, and me changing to manipulate him. When he wasn't worried about my attempts to change him, he felt free to change, too, in the ways that suited him. Not me.

Lost has made it clear that she hates the way she and her husband interact. I'm telling her to change her part of that dance, since that is all that she can control. I hope it gives her H the room he needs to change, too. But if it doesn't, she will at least be a woman that she is proud of. That puts her way ahead IMO.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and by the way. My H is diagnosed NPD who is now entering his fourth year of therapy. So I am no stranger to selfish, unempathetic WSes.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
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