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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy, i think your WH little snide remarks are just wrong, and is not part of a good marriage, imo.

If you had a dream mate, your one perfect soul mate, how would your WH compare? Mine is not even close. I told him, we have so many more issues than the A's. The way he treats me in general, how he is with money etc. Not even in the same dimension as my dream mate. My dream consists of things like honesty, faithfulness, emotional support, friendship, someone I can count on rely on, and deep deep love. I don't have any of that with my WH. I feel like there is no point in trying to R from the A's when the rest of the M is still a mess. I thought after dday we were going to start over, that the M had sucked and we were going to start a new life with each other instead of D and find someone else. That is what we discussed. That we had both messed up, we were both unhappy, lets completely start over. WH did nothing. Still the same self centered user as always. I could never be happy with him the way things are, the way things have been. Unless he changed completely there is no hope, and he has made it abundantly clear he has no intention of changing. Which, to me is the same as choosing to end the M. If you are told, the old ways didn't work we need to change and do things completely different for this M to last, and he chooses to not make any changes, he just chose to end the marriage.

[This message edited by snowbaby796 at 10:41 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he chooses to not make any changes, he just chose to end the marriage

(((Snow)))

Its so sad when you have BSs willing to work on the M and recover from the A, and still have the Wss being the same selfish mean people.

There would be, IMHO, some honour in saying that they just cant cut it and want out, rather than continue to hurt their BSs.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

forget your dream mate, what are the minimum requirements you need in order to be happy? Does he meet those? Mine still doesn't come close


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, UKgirl. I've been trying to puzzle this out and just can't. What does "up the duff" mean?

Never mind, I just googled it. Duh. Ok. Pregnant. Never heard that one before. Americans and Brits really don't speak the same language sometimes.

Lost, I would cross those two off the potential friend list. Twits.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 12:00 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, up the duff!
Dont get me started on the English these English people speak! My DD has been putting "innit?" after each sentence and it drives me wild. and worse, she has got me started. I swear us South Africans are the only ones who speak true English!!!

***
Weepy, heard this song today and I honestly dont know why but it reminded me of you. And no, its not country.

Stop and Stare by One republic


This town is colder now, I think it's sick of us
It's time to make our move, I'm shakin off the rust
I've got my heart set on anywhere but here
I'm staring down myself, counting up the years
Steady hands, just take the wheel...
And every glance is killing me
Time to make one last appeal... for the life I lead

Stop and stare
I think I'm moving but I go nowhere
Yeah I know that everyone gets scared
But I've become what I can't be, oh
Stop and stare
You start to wonder why you're 'here' not there
And you'd give anything to get what's fair
But fair ain't what you really need
Oh, can u see what I see

They're tryin to come back, all my senses push
Un-tie the weight bags, I never thought I could...
Steady feet, don't fail me now
Gonna run till you can't walk
But something pulls my focus out
And I'm standing down...

Stop and stare
I think I'm moving but I go nowhere
Yeah I know that everyone gets scared
But I've become what I can't be, oh
Stop and stare
You start to wonder why you're here not there
And you'd give anything to get what's fair
But fair ain't what you really need
Oh, you don't need

What u need, what u need...

Stop and stare
I think I'm moving but I go nowhere
Yeah I know that everyone gets scared
But I've become what I can't be
Oh, do u see what I see...

Take care ((((Weepy)))).


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And for the record BT, not only do I love your posts, I live by them too. Well, trying to.

***
Fnf, are you ok? I get worried when you are quiet.


***
Did anyone ever hear back from OTC?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And no, its not country.

Hey LH - was that meant to steer me away from this song? I just might listen to it ANYWAY (get it?)- the lyrics are beautiful.
BTW, those friends of yours - GRRRRR - I cannot believe they would say something so rude. And from everything we hear from UKgirl, sounds like you're anything but that.
(((Snow))) I loved what LH said - I think it was perfectly stated - There would be, IMHO, some honour in saying that they just cant cut it and want out, rather than continue to hurt their BSs.
Seriously, I don't understand why they would even want to live like this. What's the point?? Especially when they know that their BS is so willing to work and as you said, change themselves too where needed. Just makes me think that some are more damaged than others and perhaps the extent of that damage makes change for them something astronomical.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH - How weird was that? We were sending messages to each other right about the same time. See, great minds do think alike!
I am fine. Had a bit of a meltdown on Monday, followed by a good cry and have been coming back ever since. Thanks for asking. You know I'm always thinking of you too.
Weepy and I met today. Had a very good visit and I'm thinking about some things and hoping I can get my thoughts together enough to post soon. She said something that I've been thinking of and trying to put into words. I know she'll be able to say it better but in the meantime . . . we were talking about how these men have their walls soundly in place and we try so hard to chisel away at them, trying to reach them in any way we can and as Weepy said, while we're busy chiseling away they're quickly trying to patch up their walls and mend them and make them even stronger. (Weepy - you can say this so much better so please help me out here.)
They seem to live in fear of letting down their walls and showing their vulnerability and if only they would do this everyone would win. Instead, both parties put up defenses, and no one wins. There has got to be a way to break this cycle.
You are sounding stronger again and it makes my heart happy to hear it. (((LH)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf, you are often in my thoughts too.

I get what you are saying about the Hs' walls. My H's walls were so high and so thick,you couldnt even hurt him, let alone love him. They must have been so deeply wounded when they were little.
And sometimes, no amount of loving or compassion or empathy will make a difference..if they dont want it to. KWIM?

How nice for you and Weepy to have each other IRL. Ukg and I are still plotting to meet up with mum and brooke one fine day.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Snow))), maybe itís just how they ARE. Here WE are chattering away, trying to find some way of getting a handle on our situations, talking about emotions and relationships and all of that and they just canít ďdoĒ it. They are not made of the same stuff. I have said over and again that I feel Iím out there on the stage doing my monologue and FWH is in the wings being the part time narrator. He is just waiting for me to get off the stage so that we (read: he) can get on with life Ė whatever that means. I want him to be PROactive, to do things off his own bat, to show some spontaneity at the risk of rejection, to take me off for a w/end city break, to see a show, to take up dancing. Fuck, anything than just watch me try to come to terms with his betrayal. And go to rugby league games, which is ok if itís mixed in with other things that Iíd like. He could be a kisa for her, but not for me? Well, I donít want a man in a rusty, used suit so I might end up giving up. But I get where you are at. Itís sad when you see with such clarity and they just donít.

At BT! Sorry, thought it was more or less universal! My grandma (cockney as in born within the sound of London Bow bells, as was my dad) used to make duff pudding and I think thatís where it came from. Her duff pud was an upside down suet pudding with dried fruit and treacle on the top (when it was turned out!) and the sugar and fruit would burn my mouth! She used to make spotted dick too (so did my mum).

Oh LostH. That reminds me of the ďWhat is this life if full of care, we have no time to stand and stare?Ē poem. Iíve stood and stared a lot these last couple of years.

Fnf Ė

They seem to live in fear of letting down their walls and showing their vulnerability

Oooh. This phrase make me go goosey. Iíve started reading Why Women Talk and Men Walk. Itís right at the beginning.

Ukg and I are still plotting to meet up with mum and brooke one fine day.

Yes! Gimme a date and I will be there!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf and LH I agree with what you are saying about the walls they have built.
And like you said LH nothing will get through if they don't want it to. It's like any other personal problem I guess, therapy AA diets, none of them work without the willing participation of the person needing the help. As long as they resist nothing can help them. That was such a very good point. We can't fix them, can't save them from themselves, didn't make them become cheaters. They need to do the work for personal growth on their own. We could be supportive and helpful once they start on the path, but we cannot help them if they don't do the work themselves and especially if they don't want to improve. My WH seems content in blaming everything outside himself for his problems and not looking within and seeing why he does the things he does. It's like BT said, we only have control over ourselves. Even if WH is a shit, we do have control over how we react and respond. He may continue to be a shit no matter what we do, but the bottom line is how do we feel about how we act? I'm really getting what you were saying before BT, that our behavior is our choice our decision regardless of WH's behavior. Just like the A was 100% their choice no matter what was going on. If I choose to scream and yell and lose my temper, that is my choice, regardless of whatever WH may be doing or not doing to get me angry. I am not a slave to my emotions, I am a grown up who can choose to behave with dignity, no matter how unpleasant the circumstance I may find myself in are.
Thank you for all of the very good advice and insights you all share every day!


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At BT! Sorry, thought it was more or less universal! My grandma (cockney as in born within the sound of London Bow bells, as was my dad) used to make duff pudding and I think thatís where it came from. Her duff pud was an upside down suet pudding with dried fruit and treacle on the top (when it was turned out!) and the sugar and fruit would burn my mouth! She used to make spotted dick too (so did my mum).

OMG. I'm not even going to try to untangle this. I would be googling all day on just this one paragraph. Spotted dick? Holy Christ!


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Funny  Posted: 4:03 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds like a horrible STD doesn't it?


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Considering itís a pale sausage shape suet pudding with currants in it, wrapped in a muslin sheet tied up with string and then boiled ÖÖÖ..

ETA we'd have it served with syrup .....

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:26 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Funny  Posted: 4:25 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like I said sounds like a horrible STD!!!!!


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can think of better things to put in my mouth! "Your mother's spent all morning in the kitchen ..." Yeh, ok Dad!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you all keep having all the fun when I not here?

Here is the only one I remember from my stint in London:

"Bangers and Mash" and the pubs would have these giagantic pics of "bangers" all phallic looking....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh my, this thread has me laughing so hard I can barely contain myself! Well, I'm not exactly "cultured" either with worldly sayings. My H's friend from Australia told me he was "pissed" and I was like "why are you angry?"... He looked at me like a freak and then laughed.... yep, give me another Guiness!

Guys, I think that I agree with most of the comments regarding our H's having walls up. I don't think my H (because of his childhood abuse) EVER let me in until after dday. And I couldn't figure this out... When I'm the most ragingly ticked at him, depressed as hell and he's ruined our M as it was it was THEN he decided to let me in and tear down that wall. All I can say is that it had to do with his counseling, with growing up, or something I think only God could take credit for. I mean, it makes no sense. Be vulnerable to me at a time when I am TELLING you that I'm not guaranteeing I will stay.

But I have to share something with you all. The other night when I was freaking out and angry and sad- my H said some things that made me realize he truly gets it. He told me he wished he could go back and marry me all over again knowing what he knows now- with what he's learned. He told me loves me more than he ever has. And after almost 3 years I was lashing out at him and all he could do was be supportive of me and keep asking me what I need from him. Asking what HE could do to help me through. This NEVER would have happened before dday. Some of the changes in him happened immediately after dday, but some of the more subtle changes occurred over time when I wasn't looking- when I was getting myself together and focusing on my own healing. It's a strange place to be, but I am here to tell you that this long, long journey sometimes will take you places in your M that you would never have imagined. I certainly have seen things in my H that keep me wondering if this is the same guy I thought I knew......
So, to those who do have remorseful H's- be patient, the changes don't always occur overnight & can be a long process. For those whose H's are NOT remorseful, take charge of your own healing. Your H's may catch up, and if they don't make the changes YOU need to be happy in the M then you can make those choices to leave and start along a different path knowing that you have done the incredibly hard work of healing yourselves.

HUGS to all!
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had an aha moment tonight. I was talking to WH expressing my unhappiness and I thought his behavior is not that of a happy person. How am I doing him any favors by forgiving, giving him second chances, letting him off the hook. Personal growth is a lot of hard work. By giving him the easy way out all these years he has never had to really examine himself and his issues and why he does the things he does and is the way he is. I don't have to feel guilty when he says but i love you i'm sorry i want to get along" and he has not done any work. For my personal growth and happiness I have to say no to him, but also for his personal growth and happiness. Until he faces his demons and works on healing himself he will continue to be a miserable person who acts out in inappropriate ways.

So, I am doing him a favor by NOT forgiving him this time!!


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, May 9th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey folks, H had the computer tied up all last night and hung around this morning too, so this is my first chance on.

(Been to the gym, so I have posting rights)

I think fnf and I were saying something like, "we're there chiseling away at their wall on the outside, while inside, they're in there madly patching and reinforcing." I picture it kind of like all those medical programs show the white blood cells attacking foreign (viruses) in the body.

"Alert, alert, crack appearing in external mask. Sense a tear in the eye, uh oh, yucky feeling on the horizon... and this whole force, a little army is over there caulking and sanding in an instant."

While the wall prevents us from getting it, it also prevents them from getting out. I told her that in my H's case, I don't think he's been on the other side of that wall in so many years he's forgotten what joy, sunshine, happiness feels like. And whether he's dwelling in there because it's comfortable or because he doesn't feel he deserves the good things, I don't know. He'll tell you he's happy, but what he is, is protected.

LH, I absolutely love those lyrics. I'm going to print them off and take them to IC tonight. It truly is how I feel, headed out, then standing down.

And BTW UK people... my D's best friend is in London for school, has been since last July. DD was supposed to go visit her, but the friend told her the food was horrible and DD LIKES to eat.

My WH seems content in blaming everything outside himself for his problems and not looking within and seeing why he does the things he does. It's like BT said, we only have control over ourselves. Even if WH is a shit, we do have control over how we react and respond. He may continue to be a shit no matter what we do,

snow, I have one of those too. But I have seen him NOT be a shit. I have seen him compassionate and kind and generous. Things have just gone so downhill, so fast, I'm just beginning really feel the impact of it.

Just like the A was 100% their choice no matter what was going on. If I choose to scream and yell and lose my temper, that is my choice, regardless of whatever WH may be doing or not doing to get me angry. I am not a slave to my emotions, I am a grown up who can choose to behave with dignity, no matter how unpleasant the circumstance I may find myself in are.

Um are there drugs to help with this because I don't particularly care if I'm acting like an ass or a lunatic or if I'm mean. I put up with so much shit all those years, I'm just not going to any more. Maybe he wants ME to be the bad guy and break us up, so he can moan and whine about how he went to MC and IC and stopped cheating and told me he loved me, but I was never satisfied. So he can play the "poor me" card. (And no, he will never mention to anyone the why) but no way I'm taking that one on.

I think the next book I read will be Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


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