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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning everyone, just back from the gym, hmmmm have you all seen the guy at the juice bar, OMG!

H's new work schedule is cutting into my SI time since he's leaving later and last night he left his computer hooked up too. I didn't feel like crawling under the desk to unhook it and reconnect mine, so here I am.

Still didn't talk. Told him I still wanted to but it would probably be wise if I got a good night's sleep first.

About 6 mo. ago I suggested changing counselors... H wouldn't hear of it, said he didn't want to start from Point A all over again. That's when I started pushing for Retrouvaille.

You know I get the "nobody wants someone watching them every minute of every day" stuff. Even my IC tried to tell me that, but we HAD gotten to the point that checking his email was a fleeting thought and hardly ever done. I checked his texts one night after he was texting our son and wouldn't tell me what they were saying. He asks me everytime either of the kids does it and I answer him. No lying, no games, no secrets. And I hardly ever remember to delete my call list or clean up my texts. He can look at anything I own, the checkbook, my drawers, this computer. My email address and pw are in our "book". I don't hide anything from him.

SoLost, hope every day is a little better and sounds like H is really stepping up. Love the snuggle vs. MC.

shirley, can I come????

Well, off to move some more mulch, then shower and errands.

Take care everyone. It's a lovely day here.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
alccecbjc
New Member
Member # 18887
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could use some advice for about my daughter she is 16 and knows all about the LTA her father had , it was with someone she trusted as well, so she knows who , the person is out of our lives but my daughter is still struggling and is not talking to her dad at all and we are trying to reconcile and stay together , we just went to a marriage restored weekend and it helped us tremendously, way better thatn any counceling we have done. I think because these people have been in my shoes and my hubbys so they understood. how can i help my daughter noe learn to begin to forgive and give another chance.


Me: BS 44
Him: 50
Married: 24 yrs, 5 yrs LTA
D-day:12/29/06

Kids: 20, 16, 9
Grace wins
Grace is not getting what we deserve
Mercy is getting what we Don't deserve


"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of


Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2008
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alcc, Our son was traumatized (then 17yo) by being present on Dday. He heard everything. He stopped talking to his father, his grades tanked, he did everything but spit in his face.

Honestly, I would do nothing about restoring his relationship with her. That's his job. The only thing I did was tell my son that I would not tolerate the disrespect in front of me. That if he disrespected his dad, he was disrespecting me too because I was the one trying to reconcile with this creep. (I said that too). So I asked him if he thought what his father did was so despicable, what did he think about me, a woman who was staying with a man like that?

He's a smart kid and kind of realized that if he cut all ties to his father, then he was saying his mother was wrong for staying.

It's a shame because they were best buds before I found out.

And because my H has never made a step to talk to him and ask for his forgiveness, he sits there and wonders why his kid doesn't listen to him. They have sort of a cold war truce going on.

Just like with us, it takes time.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Al, I would suggest books or leaflets directed at teens affected by divorce. I say this, because although you clearly are NOT going down that road, the issues raised are pretty much the same as for her. Betrayal, feeling he Dad didnít love her enough to stay with you, disgust that was having sex (maybe at all!!) outside the marriage, anger at your hurt and your betrayal. She too is grieving for her loss of her known world and it is important that it is recognised. She has to accept that she is in absolutely no way connected with her dadís infidelity. It was even less to do with her than it was to do with you.

She should have someone apart from you who she can talk to and your doctor could be a starting point to find a counsellor suited to her needs, if that is what she wants. Tell her to keep a diary. Get the feelings out that way. She has every right to be angry that her home life has been wrecked, but she has to keep it in perspective. Encourage her to ask questions but gently let her know the boundaries. Your H need to apologise to her as well.

She will grow up, go to college maybe, leave home, get married, have kids and her dad will still be her dad. I remember giving some advice to my friendís daughter whoís dad was behaving despicably, I mean really nasty as in not only kept my friend practically penniless while they were in the throes of it all but refused the girls pocket money on the basis they should get it from their mother. Well, I digress. I said to the daughter (then aged 14), do not cut him off. Visit him, stay in touch, invite him to parentsí evenings, but do not cut him off. He will always be your dad and you never know if you might need him some day. She went off to college and he bought her the computer she needed, a car so her mum didnít rack up the mileage, a mobile phone to keep her in contact, support money so she didnít have to work, etc. Call it mercenary, but it cost her nothing other than good manners and foresight.

If you divorce him, he will no longer be your husband. But he will always be her dad.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
alccecbjc
New Member
Member # 18887
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thank you for your wisdom, I do try and talk to her as much as i can , i know she is upset with me at times too for staying because in the beginning things were very rough around here and to top it off like I said the OW was in her life as well. It was her youth leader and sunday school teacher and her dad was a Deacon in our church and it all hit her hard in many facets of her life. Then to top it off he had to confess to our whole church and that is hard for her because they all know and there really is no one there for her to talk too. we have a very small congregation of which she is the only teen girl. Plus we at first took counceling from our pastors wife who is a liscensed marriage counselor, but she only worked on the things that were bad in our marriage not help us work through the affair so we were left cold for that but have since got other council and went on a restored weeekend with couples who have been in our shoes and are now making it. thank you for your wisdom and advice again. Lisa


Me: BS 44
Him: 50
Married: 24 yrs, 5 yrs LTA
D-day:12/29/06

Kids: 20, 16, 9
Grace wins
Grace is not getting what we deserve
Mercy is getting what we Don't deserve


"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of


Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2008
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl These were emails sent after Dday which I saved to discuss with my H regarding NC. I've sent you a PM (lengthy explanation) as a recent discovery has made me aware that I'm not sure who is reading this forum.

I will PM anyone else who would the answer to UKgirl's question just being cautious for a bit.

HurtShirley
Who do you mean, as in which "Lost" are you referring to in the following:

Lost - Do you think your H would post here? The reason I ask is that my H has peered into that very dark place. It scared the crap out of him to do it. Honestly, when he first started he had dreams of being bound with duct tape including his nose and mouth, unable to breathe. But now, as he is making progress, it is like he is working on his own freedom. He is so much happier. I am sure EmptyOne would be willing to PM him if he would join.

Since reading EmptyOne's posts, I have suggested to my H that he could benefit from the messages in Wayward after becoming aware that he's read here in LTA but apparently didn't know my ID.

Weepy I can't believe your H's actions at this stage. {{{Weepy}}}

{{{LTA}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Umm, Lostsuol Ė did you mean me? No pm from you in my box.

Watched a couple of short videos of #1 & #2 son posted on Facebook. OMG, I miss them. So brown and #2 with long hair. Can we go round and call in Brisbane? Someone send me a hug.

ETA, better go feed what's left of my own little tribe.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:38 PM, April 16th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, you lucky dawg! Enjoy yourself! Raise a deck drink for the Tribe.

Cyberhugs to you, UK, and to you too, lostsuol.

So Lost, glad you're getting some much needed TLC. Hope you're mending well.

nobody wants someone watching them every minute of every day

Our WSs lost all rights to those privileges the moment we discovered their deception. They took advantage of our implicit trust. They can work HARD to earn some of it back, but I will never trust anyone that way again.

al, my D was 15 when she discovered by text message her Dad's A. Can't add much to the good advice already offered but having someone she can confide to a counselor or a friend is important. My D has a good group of friends she has been able to talk to, a couple of whom were dealing with somewhat similar situations with their parents. She still struggles with her feelings for her Dad. I think she still loves him, but she doesn't like him at the present. H, to his credit, is trying, but it will be a long, long road.


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Question  Posted: 2:52 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Umm, Lostsuol Ė did you mean me? No pm from you in my box.

Don't know what happened to the 1st but I just sent it again. Good thing I copied the text into my email to save re-typing!

Sorry to hear you are missing your sons. Me too, but only one son who just deployed to the Pacific Ocean. I think I'll spend some time on Facebook too since our photos got eaten by my hard drive.

SteelerGalThanks for the hugs.

I wish I could feel optimistic. Unfortunately I'm afraid it's just another "there, there... LostS" and nothing will change. How many meltdowns should it take before we are both truly committed to R, not just me giving him a 2nd chance? Am I still being taken for granted? I wish I knew.

I know the advice is to look after me but I am having trouble just getting out of bed these days...


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've got it, the perfect beginning for my "talk" with H. Instead of coming right out and doing the "I know what you did" thing, I'll start with the parable of the scorpion and the snake. You all know that right?

The scorpion and the snake are on the riverbank and the scorpion asks the snake to give him a ride across the water on his back. The snake says, "No way, I'll get you across and you'll just sting me and I'll die." The scorpion reassures him that he's not really that bad, that he would be so grateful for the ride that he would let the snake go. So the snake agrees to take him across. Just as they arrive at the opposite bank, the scorpion stings the snake and in his bewilderment the snake says "Why?" And the scorpion says "Well, you should have expected it, you knew what I was before you let me climb on your back."

And I turn to H and ask him if he's the scorpion, because I sure feel like the snake.

Or I could try a more concrete example. When my son and his GF were down for Christmas break, she got upset because he'd received a text from his old GF. He didn't hide it, he didn't respond but she got upset at him. H and I agreed that DS couldn't control what the old GF did and he did nothing wrong, she was upset over nothing. But we talked about it and also agreed that if DS had INITIATED the text, hid it from GF, that she would have had every right to be angry. And I could add that we don't even know if they had an NC agreement.

So I then remind him that our R Rule #1 was - no private female contact unless it's a sister or his mother. He agreed.

Then I"m just going to tell him that he chooses either the old H of secrets and lies and double lives or me. And not to make that decision too hastily. Not to answer me at all until DS goes back to school. (Because if it's the old H, I'm going to need somewhere else to sleep!)

I'll assure him that there is a way I'd like this to turn out, but I'm leaving it up to him.

Apparently w_a_l seems to be having the same problem with a broken NC this week.

Is it spring?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostsuol, hope the pm systemís working.

Weepy, stop pacing up and down like a tiger in a cage. No analogy or parable or fable preamble. Keep the DS old GF as a back up as confirmation that you have a right to feel as you do. Have your list of questions and put them to him. You seem to be on hot coals here and that is not good for your emotional wellbeing or to your reconciliation. And Mr Weepy does want that, doesnít he? Well, he should stop his stupid juvenile behaviour and start acting like an adult.

Whoís got my baseball bat? Did someone leave it in the boxing ring back at the spa??

Big and massive hugs (((((Weepy))))). Letís blow some dough in the casino downstairs. Iím for a Southern Comfort with lots of ice (whoís behind the bar tonight?) and am gonna chuck a few chips around. See yíall in the morning.

ps w_a_l? Feel I should know that one and when you tell me I'll go "oh yeh, of course."


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wincing_at_light. Former WS who married his OW and his OW, now wife cheated on him.

I remember reading his posts a long time ago and he really, really "got" what he'd done.

Everybody gave him a bunch of "Karma" stuff at the beginning, but no matter, it still sucks to be us, whether a WS first or not.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Saw my IC for the first time in a month. She was stunned that I could talk about leaving him so calmly.

She also questioned whether I was very clear about what was and was not acceptable when we set down our R rules. I told her it didn't matter, he knew it was wrong, or he wouldn't have deleted his outgoing calls. He wouldn't have lied about why he was leaving the house, he would have told me he talked to her.

She played devils advocate and wondered whether he just felt "under my thumb". I said too bad, his fault. She said "maybe it was just innocent and he wanted "strokes" from a former flame who remembered him 'when'." Again I told her tough... It only took one "stroking" session before he was in bed with the last "crush" and spent years there. How many "stroking" sessions before it's betrayal in her book.

She said I had good arguments and I'm apparently not just unhappy about the affairs, but about who he is period. That I don't like him very much, affair or no affair.

I told her he wasn't good for me, the me I wanted to be.

So cruise away ladies, I'm going to work on my resume on the deck with a very large drink!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told her it didn't matter, he knew it was wrong, or he wouldn't have deleted his outgoing calls. He wouldn't have lied about why he was leaving the house, he would have told me he talked to her.

BINGO! that is it exactly. I also like the fact that she played devil's advocate and you had a rational and logical response to each. Hmmmm, who isn't being rational and logical then? Weepy, I am proud of you.

Then I"m just going to tell him that he chooses either the old H of secrets and lies and double lives or me. And not to make that decision too hastily.


You are really getting to the heart of the matter. Wish he would join you on the journey.


Iím for a Southern Comfort with lots of ice

UK - really? I grew up in the South (US) and this was a drink that I would NOT associate with you. Is there a British explanation?

HurtShirley
Who do you mean, as in which "Lost" are you referring to in the following:

Lostsoul - I am sorry for not using 'full names' so that you guys can discern. I was referring to Lost Heart as her H seems to have some of the same demons to confront as mine has. However, my H is willing to post or PM any WS who is looking for any input. He is EmptyOne.

alcc - you received great advice from everyone about dealing with children in this situation. The only thing I can add is to retain a therapist/IC who is trained specifically for children. I met with one early on as my 3 girls witnessed much of the first 3 days of dday#1. I met with her for advice as to what to do and what to look for (grades dropping, issues with friends, more moodiness than usual for teenagers, etc). I think to just let them know that it is not their fault and that they are unconditionally loved is key. Keep us posted - maybe we can help.

6:55 flight to Miami in the a.m. Going from 40 degrees to 80 degrees in one day! Woooo hooooo!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shirley,

Have a great time. I've always wanted to go to Miami and gotten close, but never quite made it all the way there.

Bt


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:06 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy, havenít you spoken to Mr Weepy yet? I think I said before and Iím going to say it again, you need to sit him down and tell him this is serious-time. No more pissing about. Heís treated you too badly for too long and itís time he stopped being so selfish and self-centred and concentrated on the job in hand instead of thinking he can carry on in his own sweet way. This is decision time. Make or break. And. If itís break, weepy, YOU chuck HIM out. Heís the offender, not you. He leaves, you stay.

Iím really pleased you shot down all those ducks that popped up in your IC. Sounds like youíre really focused and are thinking strategically. Focus certainly helps. Project management and all that. But he needs to be sat down and told it as it is.

Whatever you choose, weepy, you know weíre all with you. And get that steward to get you another drink!

Shirley Ė stop it!! Its actually bloody cold and wet here. Someone make this ship a reality!!!! Brrrrr. And Iíve been drinking SC for, ohhh, yonks. Since I was a teen.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:08 AM, April 17th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
JoePike
♂ Member
Member # 13207
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi ladies (and guys?),

Just wanted to pop my head in and say hi. Rarely post here anymore, but felt the urge to stop by today.

I am happy for those who are moving forward, with or w/o their spouses , and sad for those who are still struggling.

Myself I waver between the two. Divorced since July 07, but now that the anger has subsided I am able to look at everything clearer and the sadness takes over sometimes.


"Do or do not. There is no Try" - Yoda.

"The term ďmistakeĒ infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper


Posts: 3952 | Registered: Jan 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alccecbjc - This is one of the most heartbreaking aspects of the LTA - that our innocent children also pay a heavy price. My D adored her father - he was always her KISA. During her teenage years, her and I clashed time and time again and she would turn to her dad who helped her through the tough times. When she discovered what he had done and had been doing for years, she was so devastated it broke my heart. I knew how important her relationship with him was and how difficult it was for her to reconcile the man she thought he was to the man she now knows him to be.
The first thing my H did was to write each of our children a letter of very sincere apology and deep regret. He has sat with each of our children numerous times and let them ask him whatever they need to understand. My D began seeing a psychologist (which we paid for of course) and met with her regularly for a few months. Then later she wanted to see our MC just because she wanted that connection to someone who knew the situation and my H personally. Aside from that, I encourage "quality time" alone for them since this was such an imporant relationship to her. I can say without a doubt that their R is very good now. It took well over a year to get there and I think there will always be a shadow over it but for the most part they are reconciled and doing well. Hope this helps.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:33 AM, April 17th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She was stunned that I could talk about leaving him so calmly.

Weepy, this has been very surprising to me how you seem to be leaning more and more toward this. Has Mr. Weepy been picking up these vibes or does he walk around as if things are going on as usual. That can be so infuriating when we are experiencing very negative feelings and thoughts and our H's seem oblivious to the dangerous thoughts we are struggling with.
I am sensing that you are beyond the stages of anger and hurt and have now entered into a more healthy, conscious phase of acceptance and determination to do what is best for you. Mr. Weepy beware!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to say:
Hi to Joe and thanks for dropping by our little corner.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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