Son's wedding was fantastic this past weekend, and I only briefly had the cynical thought about the possibility of a genetic propensity for infidelity being passed on by WH!!
There's too much to keep up with with you guys. But I feel for those whose H's are being insensitive or silent or just not doing what has to be done. I see in my own case that if I don't bring something up, especially after almost 3 years, things don't get discussed. And the issues aren't resolved for me--and probably not for him either--so we keep on plugging when the time is right or else I'm ready to explode if I don't talk about some issue or feeling RIGHT NOW.
Still hard for me to schedule talks, ha ha.
SoLost, I share your upbeat feeling about H having the commitment to us and not the OW--why isn't that enough for me though? If I'm feeling rational, it is, I can look at all the positives of the past months--if I'm feeling slighted or ignored or whatever, the fact of his being here and choosing to do all the shitty work needed to rebuild the marriage just doesn't help--I get paranoid and think there must be some reason he's here besides wanting to be here--can't come up with what it could be though. Is inertia and the familiar really enough recompense for all the crap that he and I go through trying to deal with the infidelity?
For newbies, the journaling idea is a good one--the infidelity did a number on my memory and thinking abilities, and I'd have forgotten most of what I'd heard from H or from MC or IC unless I'd written it down or taped it.
And take care of yourselves.
Sorry about all the upheaval with OW's, jobs, and not-remorseful-enough H's.
We are just trying to discern how many people knew and this is one of the few people that worked with them both at that company who is also a friend.
I don't mean to sound patronizing here, shirley, but...why? Does it matter now who knew?
Again, I honestly don't mean to offend...it just seems like picking a scab. My H worked with OW too, and I'm not about to open that wound with his old coworkers. What real purpose would it serve? I'm sure they knew (even though he swears no one did ), but it just doesn't matter now.
So on the topic of reading and quieting the mind (and "now")...
I'm reading "The Power of Now". Folks (not newbies)...we're doing this to ourselves. We're keeping the pain alive and we're accustomed to it now. Our minds have made it who we are.
By dwelling mentally on the situation, event, or person that is the perceived cause of the emotion, the thought feeds energy to the emotion, which in turn energizes the thought pattern, and so on.
In fact, the harder the mind struggles to get rid of the pain, the greater the pain. The mind can never find the solution, nor can it afford you to find the solution, because it is itself and intrinsic part of the "problem".
You will not be free of that pain until you cease to derive your sense of self from indentification with the mind, which is to say from ego.
There are two levels to your pain: the pain that you create now, and the pain from the past that still lives on in your mind and body.
It then goes on to talk about living in the present. The past is an illusion...as is the future. The only time is now. If we can learn to appreciate that we are not experiencing the painful experience NOW, and learn to recognize that our minds want us to keep experiencing the pain, and quiet our mind...we can free ourselves.
The more you are able to honor and accept the Now, the more you are free of pain, of suffering...
The pain that you create now is always some form of nonacceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to what is.
(That makes perfect sense to me.)
Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have. Make the Now the primary focus of your life.
As long as you are unable to access the power of the Now, every emotional pain that you experience leaves behind a residue of pain that lives on in you. It merges with the pain from the past, which was already there, and becomes lodged in your mind and body. This, of course, includes the pain you suffered as a child...
I can hear it already: "Yeah, but..." Stop yourself. This book makes frigging sense to me at nearly two years out. I don't live in the Now. I don't appreciate the Now. I hurt from the past, but it is NOT my Now. There isn't anything I can do about what already was. No more than I can do anything about what may happen in the future...so why worry and be afraid? Is there a reason to be afraid NOW--right at this very moment?
The book says, "Accept--then act."
What does that say to some of you? To me that says, "It is what it is. You cannot change it. What are you going to do to take care of yourself?" Is there something that is causing you to be scared right now...this moment? If so, do something about it. Don't dwell or live in pains from the past.
I could recite more and more, but I'm just going to suggest you buy the book.
Or don't. <<shrugging>>
Again...not for the newbies. I realize it's still WAAAAAY to raw yet.
[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 7:28 PM, May 9th (Friday)]
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Don't feel sorry for her. She made her choices and one of them was to try to destroy you and your family. Fuck her.
Hmmm. It's more of a pitying sorry. She's trash to have had such a long term affair with a married man with small children. I pity the kind of person she must be to have done that. I don't feel sorry for her in a I-hope-you-feel-better-and-thigs-go-better-for-you kind of way. More of a you-are-nothing-and-a-sorry-ass-home-wrecker-and=now-you-have-to-live-with-it-ha kind of way. LOL
25wimsey, it's not enough for me either. I just know, in my sane moments, that he is the oe that had the committment to me. Desn't mean I like her or want to ever see her. But it lets him off the hook if I put that anger or pain on her. And he doesn't get to get off the hook.
Journalling is so great for me. I can really feel it building u0p if I don't journal. It just gets it out and forces me to organize my thoughts. In 6 months I have filled up 5 spiral notebooks full of my thoughts. Someday, when R is truely a premanent thing in my brain, i will burn them all. And every paper that has anything to do with the affair. God forbid my H and I died suddenly or something, I wodl never want my ids or family to find it all.
You know, I go back and forth about wanting to know who knows about the A. He is so not great at lyingand hiding that I know many, many people know about it on his floor. And he has told me several. He thought it was jst a few but then many have said something to him after dday, so he was wrong about that. I use to work on that same floor (how we met) so it's just embarrassing. Hard to run in to those people at work. So not knowing lets me pretend the don't knwo adn just say hello and move on.
I really get the living for today.... I have been doing this for awhile and H and I are doing well. We have dealt with the why's and how's, and then we have moved on.
Dwelling on it doesn't change what happened. I haven't forgotten or necessarily forgiven, but I have chosen to move forward.
I am not naive enough to think it will be smooth sailing... but life in general isn't that way.
I don't want to be 2 years out and still struggling to reconnect. I love my H and he is really trying. We live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself.
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
Hi canidothis. Welcome to our little corner of SI. There’s lots of advice and plenty of support. I’ve read your initial post, but perhaps you’d like to reiterate your sitch again over in here. Some of us don’t venture out much.
Just to clarify. Pudding = an “afters” served hot, usually with custard or cream. Dessert = “afters” served cold. That’s how I differentiate anyhow. And I make a mean sticky toffee pudding with hot toffee sauce. YUM!
Snow, I hope it’s better this morning. He just isn’t getting it, is he? Sounds like he doesn’t want to either. Don’t let him make you feel insignificant and worthless – you most certainly are not. Back to the 180?
I had a baaaad day yesterday too. I read, but didn’t post. I let rip in my journal. I hate it, just hate it. I think I’m triggering b/c his oldest buddy is coming over today and they are off to the rugby, meeting up with another old college friend. This “buddy” also had a LTA with a woman called Candy. Talk about an appropriate name. He put his wife through hell, him and his stupid mid-life crisis. A supposedly highly intelligent man who is led by his dick. He even lived on campus (university lecturer) for a year while he “sorted himself out” as his wife said to me. Another fuckwit. And you know what pisses me off? . I know they will not go anywhere near the subject of affairs, of the whys and wherefores, neither woman will be mentioned and nor will the suffering they have put their wives through. They are men, and don’t talk about such things. Maybe they find it embarrassing or see it as a weakness exposed, a soft underbelly. But they have been life long friends, so why can’t they discuss it? In the same way as my FWH can’t mention the henna that twit uses on his hair. Why not?? We ladies do. He used to be strawberry blond, now he’s brown ….. Tossers.
And I kind of get it about people saying what “nice” people the OW is and why our WS’s agree. They can’t see them any other way. To do so would be tantamount to agreeing that THEY, as WS’s were not nice people either. And that’s difficult to admit to and deal with. The truth is that, at the time they were conducting their affairs, the OW’s and the WS’s were trying to see themselves as nice people (look at me, I couldn’t leave my wife, I’m a good guy) when all they were doing was holding the mirror up to each other, seeing what they wanted to see. And they still do not want to change that view about themselves. They “slipped up”, that’s all. KISA. Yep. Hmmmm.
25wimsey. Our kids make it all worthwhile, don’t they? So pleased it all went well.
Living in the now is something I find very hard to do. My H has used the phrase from day one, practically. That was then, this is now. YES, BUT THEN WAS “NOW” ONCE, WASN’T IT?? And next year, this will be then. It’s as if he is saying it was carpe diem and fuck the consequences. He has used that poem “Burnt Norton” too.
Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
Sorry, mini rant.
So Lost. Well, you know that I feel much the same about OW in my case. Didn’t stand a chance, really. Thought he’d come back for her and they were going to live happily ever after. Hopes and dreams fulfilled. Not to be. So, feel sorry for her, mostly.
Best buddy, other FWH is here. I’m off to the gym PDQ.
Quick hello lovin’! Not camping this w/end then???
Morning LostH. Can’t believe I beat you to the morning post!
OK, this pudding talk (and spotted dick!! ) is cracking me up. When I think of pudding ,i think of jello pudding! How do you say 'suet'? Is it like 'sweat' or do you pronounce each letter?
H and I had a fight yesterday. About communication of all things. He just isn't good at it. And hates to make phone calls. So I needed hi to make a phone call and then tell me about it and he sucks at that. It was to his mom for MD, that's why i wanted him to do it. Anyway, I called and calmly told him I was getting stressed out by us not having a decision on plans and he got super irritated. Raised his voice and I raised mine. He did what I wanted in the end but I was soooo not happy.
Anyway, when he called to say goodnight to kids form work he apologized. He never did that before. He would just not say anything until it blew over an pretend all was well. During the fight he said I needed to meet him halfway, he was trying and he was changing a lot but it was going to take time.
So how does that work? I mean, this stuff seems so simple to me. I feel like I should just say it and he goes, oh yeah, I should be acting that way and then just change. Guess it doesn't work that way. It's so frustrating though. One thing at a time I guess.
This book I’m reading Why Women Talk … see if any of this makes sense to you.
SNOWBABY, this may help you in some way too.
Men dread the words “we need to talk about our relationship”. Women will say about their partner getting defensive or impatient and unable or unwilling to communicate. Talking about the relationship has more chance of making it worse than better and has nothing to do with his poor communication skills. Women want to talk b/c it will make them feel better, men don’t want to talk b/c it won’t make them feel better, in fact it will make them feel worse. The real reason a man doesn’t want to talk about the relationship is b/c talking about it (and the woman’s dissatisfaction) will make him feel a failure (apparently what men dread the most, whereas women fear being unloved). His resulting shame is too great to see the woman’s fear and the woman’s fear is too great to see the man’s shame. These are core vulnerabilities. So, taking ANY issue up with a man is effectively telling him he isn’t capable of managing these things on his own and shows him up to be, to a greater or lesser extent, a failure.
No, I don’t get it either. But I’m only a quarter of the way through the book. I think the gist of it is that business of stroking a male ego, whether he’s right or not! And that’s what most affairs are about, right? Men feeling a sense of achievement and women a sense of being loved.
Thinking here .....
Nah. Sorry, still don’t buy it. Still reckon he did it b/c he wanted to, he felt entitled in some way and b/c he thought he would get away without me having to know.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:43 AM, May 10th (Saturday)]
Read your musings.... it is true for some I guess. I know that my H is NOT a good communicater,and doesn't know how to say what he is feeling or thinking... but he has been trying.
I think there are many reasons why my H had an A, but in the end, it doesn't really matter why. It's over and we have decided to move forward.
I use to be very different and would over think a subject and we would fight about stupid stuff!! I think that "my thinking" has just changed, I kinda feel like I just don't care anymore about things I have no control over...KWIM??? I am tired of fighting the waves and I just want to float peacefully...
Sure wish we were camping but we need to try and get some stuff done around the house. H has taken my van to get it fixed and I should be doing something other than this.... soon. We are leaving May 24th and going to Destin, Florids with our 5th wheel and staying till the 9th of June. I can't wait. They have 3.5 miles of their own private beach and the most beautiful white sand. I'm thinking maybe a return of the HB..
Have a great day and I will try and check in this PM.
I haven't forgotten or necessarily forgiven, but I have chosen to move forward.
Yes...I think this is important. HOWEVER we move forward, I think we really must just do that. I think we try so hard to "forgive"--when trying really just keeps us stuck where we are. Because our mind keeps overthinking it and keeping the pain alive. Forgiveness, if it's going to come, will come on it's own.
YES, BUT THEN WAS “NOW” ONCE, WASN’T IT??
The book is trying to say that "then" is gone. It may have been "Now" once (and that was your "Now" at the time) but it's gone "NOW". You will never get "then" back again.
[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 10:05 AM, May 10th (Saturday)]
My good friend from home has been after me to read his books, and I've been putting it off. If you are that impressed, though, I'll order them.
H and I watched the John Adams series and saw how they faced their trials. One of the nicest things h said was that he wanted us to grow old together like Abigail and John.
Yes, agree that living in the NOW is DIFFICULT but the alternative is to live in misery and despair. IMHO that is the only choice.... live in misery OR chose to live in the now and make the now good. I also agree that living in the now is for those who are further out. Alot of processing and assessment needs to take place the first year after discovering a lta. After a year we see how our ws reacts and grows or does not grow. We then have to make our decision. If we wait for years and years for our spouse to make changes that they will not or cannot make, we are imho, denying reality and spinning our wheels. Imo, we have to take a hard look and then decide if we want to live with them. If yes, how and if not, we need to make plans to leave in a way that is least hurtful. B/c of realities, some stay and have a marriage of convenience, compassion and tolerance while others stay in new and improved marriages.
Another book that I recommend is "How To Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" by Patricia Love and Steven Stosny
i'm trying to focus on the NOW too.
(No Other Woman?lol).
the past has stolen too many of my days already. of course i'd need a lobotomy to forget but i'm trying to take the lesson's learned and move forward.
send hugs and good wishes to all
I can't say enough about Tolle's books. They made all the difference in how I view life "now."
The concept of "Living in the Now" is really about filling the space of "now" effectively, rather than trying to force the past from your head.
When we can grasp the reality that only in the "now" is there safety, sanity and serenity....there is no room left for yesterday's or even tomorrow's' angst.
Now trust me, I am not saying that this a magic wand that brings on blessed amnesia. It is a process of learning to break one's own thought patterns.
But it does provide a "tool-box" of deliberate choices of thought that set a more positive rhythm to your psyche.
There are still days when I have to remind myself to get out my stash of better thoughts....but it is becoming more instinctive "now."
No mor is right, the LTA aftermath takes at least a year to get to a point to even be able to seek some relief from the mind-chatter.
That first year is akin to moving from ICU to a normal med-care room......then on to rehab.
It is far more preferable to being held hostage by others actions.
"Now" is a good place to be if it is by your design.
Hugs to all the newbies and oldies.
After DDay, he was so relieved that it was over that he was hell bent on running from it as far and as fast as possible. Which wasn’t going to happen for me b/c I’d just been hit by that 40 tonne truck he was driving. He had dealt with it within 24hrs. I mean, really dealt with it. It was so over. He would say it wasn’t him (huh?), it wasn’t real, it was something that was in the margin of his life and nowhere else, that when he was with her, he was detached from reality b/c it was an escape, a diversion AND, that was then, this is now. It’s a phrase that, in my current state, makes my hackles rise.
He says he thinks it would help if I got really angry with him instead of bottling it up and withdrawing. His anger (at himself, he says) comes out on the golf course when he throws his clubs into the woods, or breaks them and swears like a trooper. I think he’d quite like me to go for him, to slap and hit and generally beat him to a pulp, b/c he thinks that’s what he deserves. But I’m not a loud person. He is, and a larger than life character. I’m just not.
You see, I’d had a good life until this happened. And even when he was in the affair, it was mostly good with some episodes I didn’t understand, but I put down to work, the court case, teenage kids, etc. My now has always been wrapped up with “then” and with what’s ahead. I can’t separate them out into convenient little boxes like he does. But we collect and carry our history with us into the future, don’t we? It has to be part of who we are.
So, it is pretty much Burnt Norton for me.
Or another analogy: time flows like a river. That water was up there, in the mountains. Now it’s down here in the open meadows. But it’s still the same water, isn’t it?
And I’d like to take those five years and put them in the skip. And in a way, I do. I found the wedding order and service from S & H’s wedding in Feb ’02. Yup, he was shagging her then. So it was ripped up and binned. That reminded me, so the hat I bought for a family wedding in 2003 was pulled out and is waiting to go to the charity ship. I rip up photos that make me angry about that time. I don’t want reminders.
And I’m not doing well b/c I’d like to strangle that FWH bf who was H’s best man at our wedding and turned out to be such a shit. And they’ll be back later. I feel like a cornered cat.
After DDay, he was so relieved that it was over that he was hell bent on running from it as far and as fast as possible.
His version of "now" is/was escapism....pure and simple.
Abdicating responsibility for his past actions and choices.
That's not what these books are about.
This concept is for "you."
A method for you to find your way out of his blueprint.
A way to view life from YOUR eyes only.
It is not about giving anyone a pass for the pain and destruction of their perceptions and actions.
Rivers do flow and yes, it is the same water..but that water travels over different environs as it flows. Also two people can watch the same river and see different aspects.
I understand your pain, UKgirl....so, soooo have been there.
But pain is now what I do with it....
It needs to flow on and somehow mix in with less prominence....for the rest of my life.
Each day, each moment has to mean something beyond the LTA...for "me."
For "You"..for all of us.
[This message edited by numb and scared at 11:45 AM, May 10th (Saturday)]
I could do w/o him staying over, that’s for sure. His wife’s over in Egypt until it gets too hot. There’s a government ad here about carbon footprints. Anyone wasting energy leaves gooey sticky tar prints wherever they walk. That’s how I see them, leaving sticky bloody footprints of affair wherever they walk.
up2me – he has foo issues he hasn’t even addressed yet.
runover, I have A new earth and have read part of it and did some of the online class with oprah. It is good. But, like everything else it is a tool and it takes time to process the info and change yourself.
I am taking steps towards learning and growing and moving forward to NOW.
Weepy, imo one reason to not want to see you so angry is because it is an expression of your pain. If you are angry and lashing out YOU are not healed and whole and happy and at peace. And that is what we want for you, for ourselves, for everyone on here. To me the anger and rage are an expression of my deep sadness and misery. If I felt better I wouldn't need to attack. I could shake my head in sorrow and think what a sad sad man, without being brought to the brink of rage from his cruel comments.
25wimsey congrats on your son's wedding I am happy it all went well.
At just over a year past Dday, I am having trouble with the concept of living in the now. I want to move forward but feel like FWH should help me heal so that I can. Still no response to the letter I wrote over the past week and gave him on Thursday night. He read it twice, that's all I know.
So for today and tomorrow I will try to live in the now - try to enjoy Mother's Day - despite what someone called 'mind chatter'. My head is full of this, unfortunately nothing else matters much... I haven't reached acceptance stage by a long shot. My 'now' just isn't the same as FWH's. And that's the part that hurts.