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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In some twisted way I think their efforts to completely rewrite and ignore the reality of what they did in the past proves how bad it was. Even they can't accept how bad they were so they have to make up a fairy tale about what happened. If what they did really wasn't all that bad then they say I did this and that forgive me or whatever, not that didn't happen. My WH said some really cruel things to me for years at one point in our M. the other day he ssiad, 'Well, I only said that one time but you rolled your eyes when I asked for sex all the time!"
I loudly reminded him that he had done this to me on a regular basis for over 2 years. He looked genuinely shocked and said "I didn't realize i did it that often and for that long" pause wheels spinning... "But, if you say I did I guess, but I don't remember that"

My WH can't even admit the truth and accept it himself. Well, I have no interest in being a part of his delusion and going along with the new fairy tale that he was a prince and a victim of me the evil witch. He was controlling, demanding, unfair, and at times cruel. Plus, he cheated over and over. That is the reality but he cannot deal with it. So, he tries to convince me, the person who was there, who lived through it, the person he did all this to, that it did not happen that way. He has told me my memory is not that good and cites proof like just the other day you forgot where you put your keys so i'm sure you don't remember what happened 5 years ago or last year or last month...
But, I journal and have an online diary, too. I showed him once what I had written after he did something horrible and he was reallly trying to rewrite history. He said I must be exaggerating because he was positive he did not say that and did not do that.
"So, you are saying I lie to myself in my own journal?"
And he just gave me a look like if the shoe fits.
Insane. Just insane.


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

loudly reminded him that he had done this to me on a regular basis for over 2 years. He looked genuinely shocked and said "I didn't realize i did it that often and for that long" pause wheels spinning... "But, if you say I did I guess, but I don't remember that"

Unless there was a lot of sarcasm in that statement when he made it, then he does realize it.

My IC said this week "imagine you did something horrible, so horrible it destroyed the only thing that you loved and loved you and just LIVING with that person reminds you every day, looking at your children reminds you every day of what you missed and what you ruined... you'd have to minimize it or go insane.

But until we see that they realize the magnitude, then we're unsure.

I don't know. I really don't know the answer.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You kind of hit on my big dilemma. I feel like my H will just minimize it to nothing and not think about it at all if I never bring it up. Yet I still feel like it needs to be remembered and the aftermath needs to be dealt with. He would say let;s move on and be positive and focus on us and not dwell on it anymore. I just can't go that route. I need to talk to MC about this next week. It's a definite difference between us


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get the minimizing but, he exagerrates every good thing he does also, while also minimizing every good thing I do or have done and exagerrating every bad thing to make me seem like the bad guy in this M and what choice did he have but to cheat repeatedly since I was so awful to him?

I'll be willing to give him a break, but he never, ever gives me one.


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He looked genuinely shocked and said "I didn't realize i did it that often and for that long"

My H doesnt remember ALOT of hurt he inflicted on me and the kids. I gave up trying to point it out to him in MC last year...because it became a case of "He said, she said", and his stance was that if he really did do X, then I must have done soemthing prior to warrant it.

I used to sit there shocked...thinking ONE of is crazy, and it MUST be me.And then I just dropped it.

SoLost,

I feel like my H will just minimize it to nothing and not think about it at all if I never bring it up.

It will come up in IC.What about during MC? Maybe you could both do a timeline and fill in the good and bad times together. Someone here wrote down all the hurts that their H had inflicted on her, they discussed it in MC (I think).

What would help you heal from those past hurts? An apology? Acknowledgement? Think about it. If your MC thinks you both are at a stage to discuss this, then go ahead. Let us know how it went.

***
Speaking of past hurts:
My IC homework due this week, is to list 10 bad memories, and then grade them from bad to worst.
I SO dont want to go back there, thinking of that stuff, but she said its important. Crap.

***

Welcome river of tears. I am also from the class of June '06.

You have been given good advice by the others. This M is not going to work with the 3 of you in it. At some point, River, you are going to have to stand up for yourself. I can only imagine how scary this must be...but once you take that first step, it does get easier. Regardless of what you chose to do, I hope you will lean on us. I know the dday antiversary looming up must be making you anxious as well.

***

But until we see that they realize the magnitude, then we're unsure

Weepy, I am thinking about this...and I dunno.

I know my H will surely have a nervous breakdown if he has to fully accept the magnitude of what he has done (and not just the LTAs, althought they are bad enough too). I really dont think he is that strong enough now. And I DO NOT want a broken man. He has alot going on as it is.

I also dont know, Weepy.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Snow, your H sounds like a piece of work.

How about giving yourself a break?

((((Snow)))))

****
Shirley, how are you doing? You were in my thoughts this weekend, and I am glad that things went reasonably well. Just be on the lookout for the next few days...these things knock me out after the actual event.Hope its not the same for you.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, you ladies were busy over the Mom's Day weekend. Happy Mom's Day to you all!

Congratulations on your son's wedding, wimsey!

I'm sorry about your friend's little one, HB. That certainly reminds one of perspective.

Welcome, canI and river.

weepy posted this link a several pages back that you may want to share with your H, river. It may be of some help in establishing some boundaries for you.

http://www.wikihow.com/Rebuild-Your-Spouse's-Trust-After-an-Affair


Do any of you think your Hs are cheating and lying right now?

Not cheating and lying in and about the now. My instincts, which I now refuse to ignore or talk myself out of, still tell me there are still lies by omission and some minimizing regarding past behaviors. I just don't believe there will ever be full disclosure plus the occasional lapse of fucktardedness make it difficult for me to fully live in the now. It's difficult to put a percentage on it, but I'd say I live in the now about 65-70% of the time. I think I'm in a pretty decent place roughly a year and a half out all things considered. I'm really seeing and hearing H with eyes wide open for the first time, and love sure was blind.

((Shirley)), I hope anniversary went OK.

(((Tribe)))

[This message edited by Steelergal at 3:57 PM, May 12th (Monday)]


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would settle my WH being a good guy now, but how do you get over the past when he is still a jerk now? So, minmize what you did so you can sleep at night, but can't you still man up and put in the effort to make it right? He just seems to want to manipulate me into joining in his delusion that he was good, and only made mistakes because of the intense pain of me not having sex "enough" and until the day I say you are right this is all my fault we can't move forward.

I'm reading a book by James Arthur Ray, one quote that got me was "The only place in the universe where you get the prize before you pay the price is a restaurant. Everywhere else you have to pay first" My WH wants the prize, forgiveness and letting all the crap go and acting like he is great without doing anything to earn it. That is what gets me the most. If you want to be treated well and forgiven then put in the effort to earn it, to deserve it. But, no matter what I do he does nothing.
We had another financial setback this week and I'll be stuck here for some time now. It's gonna take a long time to dig us out of this mess.


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning Tribe,

I can't believe how quickly time is flying, and how much discussion has gone on here... I am so bad at keeping up!!

Shirley,
Hope the Anniversary thing went OK and your doing fine.

Welcome River and Can I

Weepy,
Sending you (((hugs))) and understanding.

Wimsy,
Congrats on your son's wedding. How exciting for you.

LostHeart'
I am SO glad that you are feeling better and I hope it continues...

UKGirl,
Hope all is fine and well with you. H and I will be leaving the 22nd of May for over 2 weeks of camping. HB at it's finest.

Steeler,
It was nice to read that you feel your in a pretty decent place now. I feel the same way. When I see where I could be, I feel quite lucky.

Snow,

How do you get past when he's still a kerk now...?

Good question! All I really know is that you can't change them or their behavior. Take care of yourself and maybe he will get it!! If not, make sure he knows that he can't treat you that way because you value yourself even if he doesn't.

Hope everyone had a wonderful Mother's Day. My own didn't go as expected, but thats OK.
It was still a good day.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Saw an article in the newspaper yesterday written by a psychologist, I don't know if he's syndicated or just local guy.

Back story, he was paralyzed by a drunk driver 20 years ago. Went through depression, even asking his family to kill him since he couldn't. Trial for the guy who hit him and a minimal punishment. He's been through a lot.

He writes about forgiveness, about FOO issues and he has a special on PBS coming up on depression. The article was about how depression in one family member affects the rest.

I started reading it thinking he and kids might get something out of it since I am the diagnosed depressive. But as I'm reading the article, he talks about male depression and it's characteristics -- anger, negativity, defensiveness, inablity to feel joy, highly critical, paranoia, pessimism and I realized that my H is probably depressed. In the article the writer says the man he told this to disagreed and never sought treatment, so he had to treat the family around him. How being around someone with this type of undiagnosed depression eats away at the family's self esteem, self confidence from the "outside in". Man if I didn't relate to THAT.

Now my thinking he's depressed is the subject of ridicule. I went to kiss him good night and heard "are you sure you want to kiss someone so depressed?" and this morning when I hugged him for being 1 week smoke free he said "Oh, don't touch me, I'm depressed remember?"

He says his therapist has never even mentioned he might be depressed... Funny, both my ICs have and our MC has suggested it. Even our friend said something about it when we went out last week.

I finally said to him that I was hoping he might see himself in that light and think about talking to his shrink about it because otherwise, I'd just have to believe he's a giant jerk and that's the way he's always going to be. (I didn't say this part) but if that's the way he's going to be forever and ever, I am going to have to leave.

The one point I am going to make with him if I get a chance, is that he points out ALOUD everything I've done "wrong" every time the subject comes up or he sees a reminder... like the plant I killed. And that every time a hooker shows up on tv I don't say to him "oh, look, a hooker, remember when you used to fuck them instead of your wife?" He may FEEL like I'm saying that because he knows I think it, but it never comes out of my mouth... just like I never got off the line about his two-dimentional GF.

I hate when I finally have good comebacks and can't use them because it's not "good for the M". But he can.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
snowbaby796
♀ Member
Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am becoming concerned that my obsession with WH and his issues is just a clever way for me to avoid dealing with my own issues. yes, he does have issues. But, so do I. I spend so much time trying to figure him out and diagnose him I am ignoring my own problems. As everyone here says the only person I can change is myself. So, the focus needs to be on me and what I can do to improve myself and why I feel I need WH to be a certain way or treat me a certain way to be happy.

Happiness comes from inside and I need to put some time and effort into working on me to find peace and happiness, regardless of what WH does or what happens with my M.

You are all wonderful strong amazing women and I wish you all the best on your journey to finding peace and happiness.


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Woke up this morning thinking about Zanny!
Hope you are doing ok, Zanny.

***
(((((Snow)))))

(((((Weepy))))

I just dont know what to say. I am sorry that you both are hurting...and that your Hs are such Asshats.

But you are both strong, capable, compassionate, intelligent,caring, loving women...that comes out clearly in your posts. Dont lose sight of that. Remember whats been said here often by the "Oldies":

I can only control myself
I can only choose how I behave
I can "fix" myself

(((((LTA Tribe)))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am becoming concerned that my obsession with WH and his issues is just a clever way for me to avoid dealing with my own issues. yes, he does have issues. But, so do I. I spend so much time trying to figure him out and diagnose him I am ignoring my own problems. As everyone here says the only person I can change is myself. So, the focus needs to be on me and what I can do to improve myself and why I feel I need WH to be a certain way or treat me a certain way to be happy.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That bears repeating, so I will.

I am becoming concerned that my obsession with WH and his issues is just a clever way for me to avoid dealing with my own issues. yes, he does have issues. But, so do I. I spend so much time trying to figure him out and diagnose him I am ignoring my own problems. As everyone here says the only person I can change is myself. So, the focus needs to be on me and what I can do to improve myself and why I feel I need WH to be a certain way or treat me a certain way to be happy.


Congratulations, Snow. You now have the key to making your way out of the hell you find yourself in.

I'm glad for you.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Typical of me, I understand what snow and BT are saying and emphasizing, however....

being around someone with this type of undiagnosed depression eats away at the family's self esteem, self confidence from the "outside in".

I don't think this can be ignored or minimized. It's true. No matter what we do to be happy, if there's someone on the "outside" saying "you can't be happy that way" or "you're not good enough to do that" or "why would you WANT to do that?" Someone making us question our very existence, then it's real tiring to fight for yourself all the time.

That's what I think a few of us are facing now. H who won't work on themselves make us work twice as hard on ourselves to compensate.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Snow,

WOO-HOO for you... you take care of YOU and let the future take care of itself!!

As for your H, he can either get with the program or get left behind.... something for him to think about...

(((Weepy)))

It is tiring to fight against the current all the time... it's exhausting, but you have a life vest to help and that is YOU! Look after you and your kids and let your H join in or get left behind. Either way it is hard ,but there is light at the end of the tunnel... with or without him. That personal trainer must be doing SOME good--- so SWIM, you can do this!


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Snow, I just missed your last post.

So, the focus needs to be on me and what I can do to improve myself and why I feel I need WH to be a certain way or treat me a certain way to be happy

Yay Snow!!!
One giant step forward for you.

(Pssst BT...you certainly have a flair for the dramatic. )

***

H who won't work on themselves make us work twice as hard on ourselves to compensate.

That is true,Weepy. I saw that with my folks.

And you know what, no matter how many degrees my mum put behind her name, or how much recognition she recieved for her charity work, or how thin (or plumpy)she got, he always knocked her down...and we (her daughters, her friends, her family)could never understand WHY she would let him get to her like that....especially since he was/is a ....nobody; a nothing, he never achieved anything worthwhile his whole life...and she listened to him!
Please dont end up that, Weepy. She has people from different countries applauding her...but all she hears are my dad's criticisms. Take him off that pedastal. Take back his power over you.

I know you must think its so easy for me to say that,but I have seen how that dance ends up...and its all such a waste of precious time.

Take care (((Weepy))).


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

More like melodramatic, Lost, but I don't care.

That is such a huge moment when you get to where Snow is. Most of us fight it like crazy and come up with every excuse in the book for why we can't help ourselves, when the truth is we just have chosen not to. For whatever reason -- fear, inertia, appearances, misplaced hope, whatever.

I am the standard bearer for that. I did it for almost 25 years. When you stop, when you make the choice to stop, it is the turning point of your life. And it is very definitely worth celebrating.

Weepy, I hope you get there soon because your increasing frustration is very evident. Trying to get him to change is putting such stress on you that I actually have begun fearing for your health.

I don't disagree with you that your husband may be depressed. In fact, I think I suggested that to you many moons ago. But whether he is depressed or emotionally unavailable or sexually addicted or stunted or broken or just plain mean, you are choosing to allow his behavior to ruin the quality of your life. You have tied your happiness to someone else's actions, and he is a person who can't or won't act in a way that promotes your happiness.

You have choices, Weepy. You can leave him. You can work on emotionally detaching from him. What I don't think you can afford to do is go on as you are, trying and trying unsuccessfully to get him to be what you want him to be. You are going to make yourself downright sick and I am worried about you.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am working on emotionally detaching from him. Like I said, I initially looked at the article just so those living with ME could understand where I was, why the medication. My son especially was worried about how many pills I was taking and for what.

So sue me. I still care about him. He's been in my life for over 30 years. One time he was a decent caring human being. I'm losing my hope that person will ever appear again which is why I'm concentrating on doing things I love now and he does whatever he does. I haven't been hovering or checking or even intiating affection with him for the last 2 weeks. What is different is that I don't really care if he notices or not. I'm not crying over him.

I have grieved for the M I once had and never will again. Now I feel I'm grieving over the loss of a dear friend who's sick. The longer I see him not do anything about it, the easier it is for me to walk away. I have no patience for people who won't help themselves... isn't that ironic.

Having my son home and the upcoming graduation season are both great distractions. I'm also looking for a job to gain some financial independence.

I saw a neighbor today walking his dog and talked for a little while... found out he'd told this guy a lie about our retirement... told him we owned property in another state and were moving in 2 years. I didn't out him, but it just kind of cemented the sadness I feel over the loss of the man I once loved.

Wow, MC should be interesting tomorrow night.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad to hear that you're detaching, that will be your salvation.

If you've made that decision, why continue in MC?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
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