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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Joe. I know what you mean. It was the right thing to do, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

fnf, he thinks my "mood" is over my quitting smoking. But last night I was calm and even when he was pushing my buttons, I didn't care. I see him trying to get a reaction out of me and it's not working.

I don't know if he actually knows why I'm upset and of course can't FACE why, so he's blaming it on nicotine withdrawal. We all know he knows he did something wrong, but is very capable of justifying it.

Like I said -- he found a loophole, I never specifically said "no secret phone calls to women". I just said no private one on one contact. I think it covers it, but he'll be scrambling.

My IC and I went through role playing last night with her giving a perfect "fuck you, you can't tell me what to do" H impression.

I may not be done with my marriage, but I am done with THIS one. I think I gave him plenty of time to "get" it. He hasn't.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Way to go Weepy!

Roleplaying with your IC was a good start. Now let your H know that you mean business!

{{{Weepy}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, April 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! Quiet in here. Must be the calm sea having its effect.

Strange time for me at the moment. No raging. No anger. No flat plain. No distancing. Kind of normal. Not been in this place for a long time. My life feels quiet. It’s the “something’s gonna happen” feeling. Alert, but I don’t know what for. Maybe it’s the parents coming up tomorrow. The guest personality veneer is adhering itself to me. Weird.

Hope you guys are holding it together. I might feel odd, but I love my Tribe. ‘Night all.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:11 PM, April 17th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:43 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aside from that, I encourage "quality time" alone for them since this was such an imporant relationship to her

Fnf, how very very compassionate of you.
Your children are fortunate to have such a caring mom.

***
Weepy, you are in my thoughts.

***
Shirley, hope you are soaking up some good sun rays, and come back chockful of vitamin D and good health.

***
Ukg, sometimes these flat plains are good for our pscyhe. I actually look forward to them.
Enjoy the parents visit. How is your mum doing anyway?

***

I have been in a bit of a low, but saw IC yesterday, and felt better. She said that I am doing really well, and I guess its hard to see the big picture when the minutiae bog me down.

Had a really difficult case the other day where a BS left home with her 4 kids aftr years of her H cheating and abusing. She just broke down in tears, telling me how hard she tried to keep the M together, giving him chance after chance.She was sporting this massive bruise across her face, and the little kids, looked so lost and confused in a strange house, their belongings in litle packets.

***



Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for everything, for all the strength you sent me, it just wasn't enough. I lost it with him.

He caught me off guard. I had this scenario all planned out, (including taking a valium before it) but he kept pushing "just tell me what the fuck is your problem" kind of stuff and I did and I lost it, all the anger, all the hurt all the saddness and I did not remain calm, he used arguments the IC never once touched on, he threw me.

And if I heard "I did not intentionally make that phone call, it was just something I did without thinking" one more time I was going to puke. Because he thought that was ok.

It wasn't until 15 minutes into it that he said "Maybe subconsciously I did make the phone call from the car because I wanted to talk to someone alone, without you always in my business." He kept harping on the "I'm not having an affair with her, I haven't seen her since 1971 and she lives 800 miles away." (which is not true, he saw her when she visited about 10 years ago).

I should have realized there was no way I was going to make him see my viewpoint. He knows he did something wrong, but he can't admit it.

He even miscontstrued the serenity prayer at me. Telling me that he has no control over how I interpret his actions. But he doesn't have to explain his actions either. He says he can't change the way I see things, true, but when I pointed out that the prayer says he can change the way HE handles things, it still is "I'm not doing anything wrong, it's the way you see it that's wrong." In other words, it's all my fault that I don't trust him.

When I told him that our C didn't have any advice about how to approach this with him, he seemed shocked. I told him that she was worthless any more.

Now I'm getting crap because my phone was turned off this morning and he couldn't reach ME.

Fine, he doesnt' have to clear things with me, I don't have to clear things with him either, right? I've tried it the other way and it's still all one sided.

He mentioned me talking to his IC, wonder if he'll actually give me permission to do so?

I'm sorry guys, I feel like I've let you down, I know I've let myself down.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy don't feel bad about yourself. only you know when you've had enough.

Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Weepy,
No hon you didn't let us down or yourself. HE let YOU down! No advise, just know that the despair in your post is heard. It's the worst of all i think sometimes, when you can see how easily the path ahead could be so much smoother if they would just fucking get it. What you are asking of him isn't so terribly hard a path for him to take and certainly it's not as hard as yours. You're simply asking him to remove obsatacles that he can so easily remove. ((((hugs)))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a large fit of rage all by myself this AM and i have a question/thought i'd like to throw out there.
A common thing said on these boards is that because our WS take all the shit and abuse we heap on them for weeks/months after the A is discovered they must truly love us. Well it occurs to me that perhaps this isn't so, most of the H's in LTA grew up with a domineering, abusive parent, commonly a mother, this kind of abuse is nothing new to them, except now it's coming from someone they never would have suspected was even capable of it. But being abused is not new.
Have you ever thought that it's not merely love for us that keeps them here but for them the abuse is tolerable because they grew up thinking this is normal in a sense? Anybody???

Oh, don't forget to hug Weepy.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's a good point mig. Even abuse can become "familiar". It's oddly comfortable because it's what you know.

I've heard over and over that he couldn't get out of the A because he was "weak". So did he/does he stay with ME because he's weak?

Had a really difficult case the other day where a BS left home with her 4 kids aftr years of her H cheating and abusing. She just broke down in tears, telling me how hard she tried to keep the M together, giving him chance after chance.She was sporting this massive bruise across her face, and the little kids, looked so lost and confused in a strange house, their belongings in litle packets.

Oh Lost, I'm sorry. I know that couldn't have been easy for you.

Weepy...wishing you strength.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Weepy))))) That must have been so ard. And I know you wanted it planned out so perfectly adn then to just have it blow up in your face. I'm so sorry.

It's funny, I have been anything but abusive. In fact< I have been overwhelmingly calm throughout the whole thing. So much so that I wish I oculd just rage on him and give him what he 'deserves'. I actually think he would have thought it easier if I had done that as well. He could feel less guilty if I freak out and he could get defensive back at me. I'm not sure why it played out the way it has. And wh has a pretty nonexistent mother as oppossed to a overbearing mother. I think that's why he finds my involvement and caretaking so disconcerting. Interesting to think abut.

He's at IC now. He was suppose to write a one page essay on why he loves me. I never saw him write it or saw the paper, so I don't knwoif he did it. I woudl have loved to read someting like that but who knows if he will show it to me. He reluctantly told me what "essay" meant when I saw it on his appointment card.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! Quiet in here. Must be the calm sea having its effect.
Or is it the calm before the storm? That's what I'm afraid of. Things just feel strange here (at home). It's like right after Dday... conversation is difficult, for me anyway. I'm waiting for his newly found realization/unfogging to result in something concrete. Only I don't know what. I feel another meltdown coming on... really strange dreams the last couple of days. I'm tired but dread sleeping. I want him to act on his own volition - not have me prompting him. Somehow it makes me afraid he is just trying to quiet me down - more avoiding of delving into himself to help me heal.

WeepyI wish I had something comforting to say to you. I so thought you had the situation under control with the preparation and IC help. Why don't they get it?

...grew up with a domineering, abusive parent, commonly a mother, this kind of abuse is nothing new to them, except now it's coming from someone they never would have suspected was even capable of it. But being abused is not new. Have you ever thought that it's not merely love for us that keeps them here but for them the abuse is tolerable because they grew up thinking this is normal in a sense? Anybody???

I don't know about an abusive type of relationship with his mother, but my H often seems more concerned with his mother's reactions before mine. He tells her things before me and then acts like he already told me. This has been a fact of our marriage. I often have felt and still do feel like I'm 2nd or lower in priority. I asked my H just the other day if we were together due to convenience or habit. His answer: "of course not". My reply: "How can I believe 'of course not' after his betrayal?"


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick "hi" from sunny florida. Just popped online quickly to check emails and thought I would send some rays of sunshine to the tribe.

Will try to catch up when I get home. Have to get back outside and burn the crap out of myself.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just had a 'losing it' moment. Wh sat nex to me on th ecouch and held my hand. As he held it I just suddenly hit me that he had held her hand. And touched her in many other ways. I just felt so sick adn had to pull my hand away. He asked why of course adn at first I didn't say anything but then I told him baically tha I hated that he had done that with someone else and touched soeone else. I ha toleave the room adn go have agood cry. A little while later he came up and kssed me and said he loved me. It doesn't matter though, does it? I mean, nothing can change that I have to live wth his betrayal for the rest of y life. Our marriage will never be innocent again and it just simply sucks.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our marriage will never be innocent again and it just simply sucks.

{{{So Lost}}} Doesn't that just say it all? I am feeling exactly the same way. Triggering when I least expect to, not being able to control this is making me a teary mess. My H is giving me consoling hugs. I just wish we were able to take off by ourselves and be together with no interruptions from job or family.

Weekends are usually quiet but I'll be here checking in frequently since my FWH will be working both days and OW will be be there too. Time alone is really hard these days. Seems there's no way to get away from infidelity - TV, movies, music - it's everywhere!
{{{LTA}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is just everywhere. We're watching Last Knight (I think that's what it's called) with Richard Gere about King Arthur and Sir Lancelot. Lancelot gets caught kissing the queen by the king. Ugh. Here we go again. I can't escape it.

And you knwo what? I don't care that he cose me. I don't care that he did it fro the second I confronted him adn called and told her it was over and hasn't waivered since. He was suppose o have chosen me ten years ago that's when I chose him adn never waivered. So he can go shove it up his ass that he chose me and wants me. You didn't! You fucked her for 4 1/2 years...you ure as hell weren't picking me then!!!

Sorry, I am just having such a bad day for now reason and I hate it.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I mean, nothing can change that I have to live wth his betrayal for the rest of y life. Our marriage will never be innocent again and it just simply sucks.

Yes it does--I will hate this every day of the life, no matter how well our marriage might turn out in the end. I hate the fact that my "golden years" are marred by this, that I'll forever feel like an old bag compared to OW, that the kind of marriage I thought I'd have after 30 years will never happen. And this is with a remorseful H. Maybe he can never really do anything that will really "make it up" to me--probably not possible, and that saddens me every day of my life.

We just got back from our visit with OC for 3 days--actually went okay, didn't have to see OW, she refuses to see me anyway, but it was less stressful for me in a way. H met her at a cafe and didn't linger at pick up and drop off, just had one chat about how it went with OC and what we did.

Funny, OC knows me and is saying my name now, and I hope he talks a bit to OW about what we did, hope she doesn't freak out on him, but hope it burns her!! My bad, as they say!!

mig, I don't know about that abuse issue--hadn't thought of it that way before. I don't consider what we throw at a LTA spouse as abuse--not in the sense you mean, I guess--just something that has to be gone through to try to understand, reconcile, and get through the whole mess. Although I know my H does experience my meltdowns or whatever you want to call it, as feeling attacked. But he does take it--and it's better now than it was 2 years ago!

Weepy, just hugs to you. What a journey you're on.

Hugs to the whole tribe.


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GRRRR, I just lost a whole post.....and don't have time to re-type it.

FOR NOW, I'll just send everyone out in our TRIBE who is strugglinge BIG, BIG Hugs and healing vibes. There are huge peaks and valleys in this LTA R roller coaster, but you all *will* get through this.

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, April 19th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wandering thoughts...

Not arguing about religion here, just thinking about, again, how to open my H's eyes to how I feel.

Last session of MC, we had a discussion of Retrouvaille. H adamantly opposed to doing anything involving the Catholic church. He gets very passionate talking about the sex scandal, how the church covered it up all those years, how disgusted he his by it. The Papal visit to the U.S. has stirred up all his old animosity and I told him there was an article in the paper the other day where Pope Benedict apologized and expressed deep shame about how the Church had dealt with these priests. How they had hurt the very people they were ordained to help. And he asked for forgiveness. H said he hadn't heard any of that.

Anyway, I'm thinking if I can get him started talking about that and then overlay that HE is the Catholic Church AND the priests to me, that I am the little children, maybe he'll see the connection...

how he can go on living life, doing his work, etc and then something with come up like the Pope's visit or Retrouvaille and suddenly he's a zealot against the church. How it's impossible for him to even step foot in a church unless forced. And to then imagine having to LIVE with the priest, in a church, the very one who abused you. That's where I am.

And what if this priest HAS expressed remorse, has asked for forgiveness, has led a "perfect" life ever since being caught at the abuse... would he let his child go off into the woods alone with this priest? Or what if he found out the priest had been seeing children alone again, and didn't tell anyone, would he not be suspicious? If he asked the priest if anything had happened and the priest denied it, would he believe him after being lied to for so many years?

Even these kids who are not adults have gone on to have lives, children, even stayed in the Church, but now and then have nightmares, or a Law and Order episode dealing with child abuse might bother them and put them in a funk for a while.

You know, I don't want him to 'fix' me. I dont' think he can do anything that will make a difference now in his words or actions. I know I have to trust and believe and forgive to get past this.

But if he doesn't even recognize that he's behaving inappropriately, that he's oblivious to the damage he's done and the pain he's caused and thinks it should all be alright because HE knows he won't do it again, then he's not "fixed" either.

I'm going to continue to build my life back. Not my marriage, just work on me. I even have a job interview next week. And working out with this trainer has been great. I don't have to give up and live with my body the way it is... I can change that. And I've cut back my smoking to one pack in over a week, from one+ packs a day. And sometimes I don't even use the nicotine replacement.

I lost it during our "talk" this time, but maybe I'll do better next time or the next.

Helluva journey!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, April 19th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi to the Tribe,

Great self-work going on in here. I read but don't want to interrupt the flow.

As we all know, LTAs demand so, so much of "self"....and even that process is itself's own roller-coaster.

The estimates of how long that process can be are certainly proving to be true.

But here we are...still standing....still willing to climb in that coaster car and give it another shot, hoping each day's ride becomes smoother.

Extra Hugs to those having a "bumpy" time right now...

Light showers to all.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, April 19th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all.

((((Weepy))))
Your H is still an asshat. Damn. I was so hoping that he was going to pull a really good reason out of his hat, and get all smug on you (the way he does when he's right!).I would rather that, then this. HE knows he did wrong.

Maybe subconsciously I did make the phone call from the car because I wanted to talk to someone alone, without you always in my business

Bullf**kingshoit!
Translated:
"I made the call from the car because I knew that I shouldnt be having this conversation,and I was hoping to get away with it."

Weepy, you didnt let anyone down. HE did.Its hard to keep a straight head, when you are being gaslighted.

You just carry on focusing on you.

****

MIG, re your point about abuse being familiar..yes, I can relate to that...for me as a BS being in an abusive relationship.
H? I would go with Run's POV:

I've heard over and over that he couldn't get out of the A because he was "weak". So did he/does he stay with ME because he's weak?

****

I feel another meltdown coming on... really strange dreams the last couple of days.

((((lostsoul)))

I know that feeling.
Now that you can anticipate them, use the knowledge of previous ones to help you get through this one, for eg.know that you cant always count on H to be there for you, so try to not fall too deep - use ways to help you keep some of you sane for eg.tapping, deep breathing, long walks.

Little sleep adds to the fall. I know the dreams are bad, but they are good for you:its your mind tying to work out stuff, so dont be too afraid of them.Try to figure out what you are trying to figure out.KWIM?

TAke care, ok?


****
(((SoLost)))

And you knwo what? I don't care that he cose me

HOw about looking at it differently if it helps? YOU chose HIM, in spite of what he did. YOU have the power, not him.

***

And this is with a remorseful H. Maybe he can never really do anything that will really "make it up" to me--probably not possible, and that saddens me every day of my life.

Oh Whimsey.
You are an incredibly brave woman.

****

(((((LTSTribe)))))

Many of us seem to be going through a tough patch. Hold on to something that you believe in, whether its your child, or your job,or a cherished memory, or your sense of you, or just knowing that no matter how rough this ride is right now, YOU WILL BE OK. The sun will come out.

We celebrated my DD's birthday today. 8 years ago, I was scared witless that I was going to lose another baby.I prayed umpteenth times a day, ate healthily and bargained with God that if he gives me a healthy baby, I will be a great mom. In that time, H was emailing OW#1 and they were talking about when "their time will come", and their lurve. How he could possibly keep a straight face today just floors me.It just simply floors me.

My DD is a beautiful poised caring loving (almost 8)year old. When she was born, I was so scared to love her, thinking any minute, she will be taken away too. It was some time before I relaxed.But even now, I still have my moments. I am blessed.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
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