Acres. There are plenty of books to help. Get her to look at the marriagebuilders video. It is good and it is aimed at infidelity/adultery in general. My H has seen it. He doesn’t flick through the books I have, he doesn’t ask about what I am reading (although I do mention some points occasionally) and he doesn’t ask too many questions of himself. It's a way of managing what he has done.
I don’t have time to go back to your previous posts, but it isn’t for her to “fix”. That is a task for both of you. By making the right contribution at the right time and really wanting for this to work, you can rebuild your life together. Openness and honesty is the first must have. Nothing works without that. Go back and find things you did together that made you feel good about each other. Be guided by how you feel. Don’t shut each other out. Have you started MC/IC? Sorry, I forget. They are times when you are permitted to talk about the affair and the effect it has had and for her to dig into her issues.
Please remember this is the start of a long, long road. It is still early days for you. And expect more tears from FWW.
well, he clearly DID have one hobby"!!!!
ETA - acres, hope last night was okay. Keep us posted.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:16 AM, June 1st (Sunday)]
and yes, I know that it will take both of us to fix this but I feel she still bears the burden of being the prime actor.. so when she asks what she can do..she should try something.. instead of just asking.. cause I dont know what will work.. being petty I know..
up at 4 AM .. couldnt fall back to sleep
[This message edited by acreswild at 12:00 PM, June 1st (Sunday)]
H and I talked last night. I saw Sex and the Cty the night before and had a major trigger from that. So I was crabby Friday night but got home late and we never talked. He came home from work at midnight last night and we talked. He basically asked hat I needed and I said empathy and understanding and he went on to this huge ting about how he has changed so much, how can he continue to chang and be someone he's not. That it's one more thing that just pushes it over the edge.
WTF??? To be empathetic and understanding is pushing it over the edge. I was pissed. At one point I tell him how I have changed a ton too and done alot and he asks what. Are you fucking kidding me? I stayed for God's sake. I don't thow it back in his face often at all all the shit he did. I try to be uinderstanding and communicate better and be more willing to listen. I let him stay for pete's sake!!!
So we hashed through that long conversation. Eventually he asked for examples of what I wanted and I told him and he said, oh I can do that. Like all th rest of what he said coudl just metl away now. No, you already said how you can't change anymore and blah blah.
At one point I told him it was times like this when I felt like it woudln't work. I cried a ton. He only held me when I asked. I think he may have been trying to be respectful b/c of all teh emotion, but that still sucked.
I don'tknwo if I can do this anymore. I don't know if I want to.
I felt like this for at least the first year, and then still have moments where that thought resurfaces. You are still in there plugging away. One day at a time. One trigger at a time. You had a huge trigger and you are fairly new in this process that your FWH is still probably learning how to help guide you through those triggers. For me, in the beginning, things FWH said actually made it worse but he's sooooo much better now (I credit that both with time and with counseling to give us both the tools to do this).
Hang in there....
Those carousel conversations are SO frustrating, and I dont blame you for feeling spent. I know it used to do us both in.
One line concerned me though:
how can he continue to chang and be someone he's not
What did he mean by that exactly?
I dont want to jump to conclusions, but that line just didnt sit well with me.
"tacky, icky and gross"..
Acres, if she stays true to the R path, she will feel even worse one day when she thinks of the car sex.You'll see.
Weepy, wow you guys do things big there!
Hope it all went well, and your family got to enjoy the evening.
Shirley, you were missed! Nice to see you back.
Fnf, thank you. You are a darling.
Hey Ukg. Yes the weather was lovely.It is a nice quiet laid back seaside town, isnt it?
The weekend was lovely. The weather, H, the kids...everything was very nice. I also learned a good lesson which the control freaks here might appreciate: it wasnt perfect: the cottage was old and not well equipped, I forgot the iron and shampoo and a few other bits and bobs, etc.
But we survived!
After awhile, I just forgot all my mistakes (nobody else was worried) and let it go. They were all fixable.
If you all know how particular I am with packing and having everything ready and then some, then you would know how big this was for me. It took some time but I was able to see past the old cottage etc and look at what was around me:the kids were ecstatic that we had our "own" beach, H was so helpful taking over whenever he could, we were all happy, and that was all that mattered then and will matter years from now.
But then it went sour.
On our way back, we stopped at the pier for brunch and walked around the board walk, and I saw a palmreader.
I just couldnt resist.
It was not a cold reading, although I did confirm what she was saying later on.
She told me about my kids, my health,my sisters, other family etc. And she also told me aboout H.
This is what she said briefly:
That he had had other women whilst with me; that he was very selfish, had a huge ego and loved women. That he did love me and the kids but that was not enough for him.That he had other ways of showing that love. That he will be on good behaviour for awhile, but that wouldnt last, that he will have another A (she doesnt know who it is). That he will never leave me and the kids and if we do split, it would be because of me. That I should not believe what he says, and that he will continue to hurt me while we are together. She said that I will find out very soon after about the A, not like the ones before, and I would be presented with a dilemma. She doesnt see me breaking it off straight away.She said he just wont be able to change or manage this weakness of his (other women).
I sent H in after that, and this is what he came back with.
That he had had other women.That his relationship with me is short lived, and that I, not he, will break the M up.That he will find someone else and will never be alone. And that the kids will always play an important part in his life, that they will continue to be close to him till the end.
I was so upset after that. Look I know I have to take this with a bag of salt, but she hit the mark too many times.
He got very upset with me and said that he was being persecuted for soemthing that he hadnt done, something he had no intention of doing again. That if I believed this woman, and I cant see how things have changed, then I should just end the M now.
And the injustice and unfairness all of this just hurts. He can go on to have another A, and we will split up, and he just doesnt get punished, does he?
He will not be really answerable to anyone; he can do whatever he wants, and not be in any worse a position than he was after dday#1. Whilst the kids and I...
Ok, I know I am being irrational here, and panicking about nothing really. Still. What a bum way to end the weekend.
Tomorrow will be the 2 year antiversary for dday#1. He hasnt said anything about it since the last failed conversation. And I am feeling too raw to even broach it.
You know a though occurred to me. Whats the chances that if he does cheat again in the future, that he will turn around and tell me that I was warned by the palmreader, and I chose not to see it.Or that him cheating was a self-fullfilling prophecy because I was convinced that he would cheat, so he did.
She said that although I am a strong person, when it came to him, I was very weak.And that since I met him, I have always let my heart rule, even when my head, rightly so, said different.
Anyone else went to a fortune teller and had a similar experience.
And on the same note, about 4 years ago, my little sister saw a palm reader who told her that she saw a sister crying alot and that her H was cheating on her. She called me up straight away to ask how could she tell our other sister to watch out - we were both convinced that it couldnt be my H as he just wasnt like that. This was around the time when H was heavily involved with OW#2.
So Lost. Where you are at is normal. You’re just fed up with it all. Fed up with hurting, fed up with a lack of effort to understand on your FWH part, fed up with life going on around you, fed up with the sun just for shining. Try giving your H a list of 5 things that would be helpful. And at the top of the list write “when I am down, please make me stop what I am doing and give me a hug. Hold me close and kiss my forehead, my cheeks and my hands, cherish me and make me feel loved. It doesn’t matter if you think I don’t want it, b/c I do really. And if I cry, hold me harder and longer until I stop.” You are not asking him to change the essential person he is, you are asking him to be more aware and sympathetic to you as a woman and the person he loves.
LostH. For goodness sake woman!!! The only person who can dictate your future is YOU. Where was she then, in the arcade, the pier or along the beach prom? I walked past them for three blinkin’ years and never went in. But then, I was a stoodent. These people are very, very good at reading faces and at body language. It is their art. They pick up on the slightest reaction to suggestions they put to you, like a living lie detector. That's why they hold your hand. Once they have a reaction, they home in on it. What she was viewing you like a maze, and she is an expert and knows just how to get to the middle where it hurts. And, if you think about it, she probably left you with a positive to go with the hundred negatives. And people usually go to palm readers, clairvoyants, psychics and such like b/c there are BAD things going on in their lives, thereby giving the “reader” a head start. Grrrrr. Bad girl!
All I can say is that we have the choice to be and do what we want. If you want to remain married, you will. If he wants to be a man of honor, he will.
All we ever have is our next choice. No fortune teller or anyone else can take that away from us.
So lost, I agree with lost h about him not being able to change and be someone he is not. If what you want and need from him to be happy and continue in the M is not possible because it is not who he is, someone caring and empathetic, then I don't know how you will ever find peace and happiness. And don't you just love when your heart is ripped apart by their A's and they come back at you with what did you do for me or how did you change? Self centered.
My WH is driving me nuts. We talk on here regularly about how we can't change anyone else. But, WH stupidity with money is ruining all of our lives. We sold our last thing left of value and had to sell it for less than we bought it for because we need money now or we will lose our home, etc. He forced the issue of starting yet another business a few months ago, there is a lot of overhead. He is not working hard, being mopey and saying "it's hard to focus because you are mean to me and tell me you want to leave me" Manipulating little shit. I tell him whatever i have done you've done a million times worse, so lets just focus on the business and earning money let's get a plan we have no more options. Just whines about I am mean. I can't take it anymore. I need him to change, need him to work and I cannot give in and treat him great and have sex and act like life is fine. I did that for 5 months after dday and he did nothing for me. I won't do anything for him until he changes. I told him no more we will both try, because I do and you never ever do and I get used and screwed over. So, f the marriage and lets focus on the money issues. "Well it's hard when your personal is so messed up to focus on business" whiney cry baby!
You messed it up, you messed up the money you messed up the M. You,no one made you, you did it!!! Now, get your head out of your ass and fix this. More whining. I said the money is in my account, if you have no intention of working and we are just going to lose it all anyhow, close the business today pack your shit and get the fuck out before you blow everything.
He said he would let me know later what he decides to do, either work real hard and try to fix our enormous money problems he created, or just give up and leave.
Our M is messed up because of me!! He has had multiple LTA's, I tried my hardest for 5 solid months after dday and he did almost nothing and told me I should have HB all the time because I love him so much, not to get something back. So of course HB ended and now he is lucky if he gets it once a month!
He has to change or we lose our home and no $ to send DD to college, the a*hole even borrowed money from our 21 year old DS a year ago and hasn't put in the effor to pay it back. He is such a mess and I can't take it anymore.
Why are you staying? You said it was for financial reasons, but if that is so screwed up already...
Do you think that your H's blase attitude towards finance is his passive agressive way of getting back at you? Or does he really not care?
I know how horribly worrying poor finances can be.
Re the reading.
I have had some experience with reading before. My great grandma had a "gift", all she told me though was that I would be married by 23 (I was insisting later!)and that I would have 4 kiddos, that there was something wrong with the 2nd one (my angel) and that the other 2 would be very close (either in age or emotionally...they are both).She was right on all accounts.
She passed on that gift to my younger sister, who could read other peoples's palms, but not close family.She stopped doing that years ago, as her health suffered.
I once read H's palm after dday#1. I "saw" that he had 2 long relationships, both of more or less equal lengths. I remember asking who that was with me,(it couldnt have been OW#2 as that was just 2.5 years)and he said that he didnt believe that, and who else would there be? A few months later, I had dday#2 where I found out about OW#1 who you know had a relationship with him longer than our M.
I know that there are many charlatans out there. I also know that some people have a gift or curse, depends on how you see it.
I also know that a reading is only true for that particular moment in time. That we go on and make choices that could change that course, or not.
My H knows that he will lose me if he does cheat again. HE knows that he would also lose everything that he has worked for. I cant imagine anything that would be worth losing his family for...esp after what we have been through.
I know too that I need to get over my fear of being destitute and alone. I know that I must work towards becoming financially stronger and more independent. I also need to accept that life is unfair; that justice does not always prevail.
And that no matter how good I try to be, or how much and well I love him, that I can not fix him or make him make better choices. I need to remind myself of this for the rest of my life.That I must not become complacent. That there is no security as long as my heart is vulnerable.
I know BT and Run and OTC have said this many many times here...sometimes I forget.
Btw Ukg, she was in the arcade.
WH is def passive aggressive and likes to have control. Instead of being good to me so that I'll treat him well, he just tries to manipulate and control. So i'm turning the tables on him. He says "I just want it noted that you are the one who wants to leave me. That I want to stay together but you want to leave" He is the one who cheated and ruined us financially, but it is all on me that I want to leave. Then he says he can't focus on business and can't work because I yell and want to leave and make him feel bad, and get a tissue for heaven's sake!! So, now I am telling him "I just want it noted that you are the one who decided not to work hard at this new business. I wanted you to work hard, I wanted us to try to succeed but you refused to" He is such a friggin pain in the ass. Immature, mind game playing, manipulative little shit.
It sounds like you are caught in some viscious dance.
I hope some of the older folk will have some advice for you. All I have are hugs.
Part of me believes that H truly feels I should have left him. That's what he deserved and he won't be satisfied until he gets his "real" punishment. So I think he pushes me that way because he can't be the bad guy. So he can then turn the tables and say it's my fault our M failed because I couldn't get over his "mistake". Since no one outside our M knows, H has also been told that if the M ends, all bets are off and the world will know why. Even if it's ME who can't stay. I will not be painted as the bad guy here. It's hard, after so many years of being the "reason" everything goes wrong to accept that we aren't. My IC gave me a paper one session. On it she wrote "it's all my fault". Told me to take it out every time something went wrong in my household. She just wanted to point out to me just how ridiculous that notion in my head was.
Now on finances. Go to your bank. Ask to see their financial counselor. Lay everything out for that person and see if they can help you. Initially they can talk to you, but your H also needs to go. It's worth the time.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Weepy, wow you guys do things big there!
Hope it all went well, and your family got to enjoy the evening.
The luncheon was lovely. Everything worked except that DD's BF and his parents were 2 hours late. It's not unusual, a chronic problem with them, but I felt bad for DD. She was embarrassed and angry. The family was leaving just as he and the parents were arriving.
Everyone was all "don't save them any food, it's their fault they missed it, just leave". I couldn't do that to DD. So I asked the manager to put away 3 plates of food and we sat with them while they ate. DD opened her presents and then the P's left. BF came with us to the next party. His father had to come all the way back down to pick him up later that night.
So the BF's party is the 21st. H wants to stand them up. I think that since being late isnt' an issue for them, we should show up 2 hours EARLY and leave as all the other party guests arrive.
I woke on Sunday completely unhappy. Haven't woken up to tears in long time. Reached out for H, but knowing the response I would get wasn't what I needed, I stopped. I was just at annoyance level 3 all morning, snapping at everyone, even DS. DD had another party, I had to study for my test today, the TV isn't working right with the converter box. Usually I ask for breakfast suggestions, I just went ahead and made something I know displeased H. TOUGH.
When we were alone, H said he'd eaten everything in the house, but he was still horny. So I just said fine, let's go, told him to sit down, stand up, lay down whatever he wanted, just let's get it over with. (And he still wanted to go through with it after that was the part that stunned me).
He tried to be gentle and sweet with me, but I was having none of it. Every time he touched me I burst into tears. He kept asking me if I was alright and I kept lying. Afterward I felt so ashamed I just told him I was taking a nap to go downstairs.
Sometimes I really don't get "me".
(((((Snow))))) I am so sorry you are in this situation. I think it might be an idea to take some control of finances by going to your bank and other institutions of repute and separating yourself from your H. I know a lot of commitments will be joint, but you have to try and regain your credit rating. That can be done over here and we have an excellent free service (Citizens Advice Bureau) to help with debt management. It’s so much easier with all cards on the table. And yes, he is being passive aggressive by putting the blame on you, so take back some control and try a 180 for a while. It is extraordinarily unfair to borrow from your cash strapped kids and not pay it back. Try and get yourself sorted out. There must be somewhere you can go to make a start. Just doing that can alleviate some of the worry.
Like you weepy, I think my H thinks he should be punished by us splitting up. He doesn’t want it, but he thinks it’s his just desserts. He came in from golf yesterday and came out into the utility room and just wrapped his arms round me. I asked what was wrong and he said “just what I’ve done”. Hmmm I resisted saying “is that all”, or “nothing important then” in a sarky tone. I took the moment in the way it was intended.
Weepy, other people’s families, eh??
I am so slow. I’m either really thick or my brain simply does not want to recognise the depth of his deception. FWH has never offered anything and only ever admits to what I know as fact. So, I’d know one fact about the affair, then I’d ask if he/they did “it” at other times, the answer is always “no, that was the only time”. Like spending consecutive nights with OW. To start it was “no, we never did that”. Then I started putting pieces of the jigsaw together and put a couple of dates in the June. “That was the only time”. Then OW told me about them “living as man and wife” (PUKE) for a “week in February”. He had told me he was playing golf. “oh yeh, but she’s exaggerating, it was just a couple of nights” that turned out to be four nights and five days. Now I know they were together in Aug 05 for the best part of a week and, what’s more, the weekend was included, while I went with DS4 and his bf to stay with both sets of parents and a friend of mine who had moved to the furthest reaches of Cornwall. He “couldn’t” come with us b/c the company didn’t allow work “buddies” to take holiday at the same time. How convenient. And. AND. I made a detour to go and buy a huge slab of honeycomb, which he loves, from the honey farm near his parents. OMG. I am so fucking stupid. It seems that a couple of times a year they had their little “alone” time – in the early part of the year when her BH was away and again in the summer holidays. Fuck. And he never has given me a timeline. MIL asked how he could remember details after such a long time. How about at least giving it a fucking try. Do I ask him for one again – for the umpteenth time? He once accused me of treating him with contempt. No, I think he’s beneath that.
Okay. Finished bashing myself over the head.
My problems are lack of inner strength, confidence, self assurance, and lack of money. At this point my M is dead and basically a non issue for me, getting my freedom is the main thing. One day he said why didn't I tell him years ago I wanted to leave then he could have had a chance at starting a new life what a kidder that guy, I told him well maybe you should have told me about all your whores sooner and I could have accomodated you! But then I told him I did ask you many times for a D and you threatened me that you would take the kids away and I would never see them, "you have no money no family and my parents have money and I have my parents behind me all day long. I'll make it so you never see those kids again." Remember that honey?
My life has been such shit with this guy, he is def emotionally abusive.
Does anyone know why abusers stay or want their wives to stay? They treat them like they hate them but if they want to leave they don't let them, sometimes try to kill them. Let's like my WH. He doesn't physically abuse me but emotionally, verbally. Talks to me and treats me like he hates me then I want to leave and threatens he will take the kids away, (this was when they were small), but even now says he is the one who wants to try, blah blah blah. It's really confusing. Nothing makes sense. You want to be with me but treat me bad and cheat and lie and blow all our money? I don't understand.
Wishing you a peaceful day today. My thoughts are with you.
I know your angel baby's birthday is coming up this week, too. I wanted to tell you that I disagree with HS's opinion regarding whether your kids could know and whether it would be too "confusing." But I will save that for a private PM. I will just say for anyone that might be lurking on these boards, I help faciliate a grief group for women who have lost babies & what you tell your living children should obviously be age-appropriate. But most of the families I know who have told their children are glad they did. But there is no manual to tell us what we should do when a baby dies- because noone expects this to happen to them. And the timing has to be right for your family. You were NOT selfish in keeping the information to yourself up to now. You did what you thought best. Like the LTA, in the aftermath I did some things I regret- like telling too many people. But hell, I didn't expect to be in that situation. And I can't kick myself in hindsight. Neither should you.
One of the things we always tell our grief support group and SI echoes these sentiments is that you made the best choice at the time given the information you had. End of story. We each do the best we can when faced with such devestating news.
Hugs to you, my friend, LH.
[This message edited by hearbroken at 10:09 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]
I hope that H will be next to me when I do this to offer the kids extra reassurance, but I can do this by myself. Thanks again, HB.
It must be something else having that support group. I havent had anyone else to talk to about DS.Everyone finds it too painful to think about, although my mum would phone me every year and tell me that she was thinking about me and him, and for me to stay strong. She was/is really the only person who acknowledged him.
Ukg, I am not going to question why you need all those details now.If you do, you do.
Why dont you and H do the timeplan together? Make it a R project, and it could be helpful to you both.
But put in rules first in for both of you.And if that means you holding in your true feelings, then so be it.
I think it was Shirley and her H who did this, but I could be wrong.
Weepy, DD's BF didnt even call to say they were late?
Dont they have mobiles? How rude.
And your poor DD.
Regarding your mood, do you know what set you up?