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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

Happy birthday to your angel and much love to you.

My religious tradition teaches that souls who have passed on no longer think of those of us left here on earth. But I've never believed that. I believe that those we love watch over us from paradise and that they are there to greet us when we leave this life.

I believe you will be reunited with him and spend eternity with those you love.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

Thank you each one of you for your thoughts about my baby.

(((((LTA TRIBE)))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:42 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning LH. How'd you do yesterday?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Weepy.
As I had IC, I was able to just talk about my baby, w/o making anyone feel bad. IC doesnt think I have completely healed from his death, which surprised me, as I thought I had dealt with that a long time ago.

Straight after, I had the homeopathy session, where as it was the initial one, she needed my whole health history, as well as briefly my emotional history.
She said she certainly has her work cut out, but she believes between her, IC and me, we can sort this all out.

So I was abit messy yesterday. But stayed afloat.

What I keep reminding myself, is that my baby is definetly in a better place. I would be very selfish to want him alive, because with the condition that he had, his quality of life would have been very poor.Imagine suffering all your short life, knowing that you are not going to live past your teens.
I know that this sounds cold, but with all my heart, I know that him dying was a mercy.

Thanks for asking, Weepy.

****
Weepy, I have been thinking about you and your H. Why, oh why, do you let him do this to you?

Do you know how my mum "survived" a M like that with my dad? She disengaged emotionally to some extent, built her own life, and left him behind. However, it all caught up with both of them eventually.

You are just worth so much much more.

((((Weepy)))

*****
Fnf, I hope the holiday boosts your spirits, and lightens your heart a little.

Do you think you are in a "fog" because now when things go back to normal, thats just doesnt cut the mustard anymore?

Normal means old normal, right?
Well, the old normal wasnt good. Sure you both made it work for yourselves, but not as a couple.
And maybe now what you need, is a relationship that works for the couple.

I remember BT said something a long time ago, that helped spur me. She said something along the lines, that after dday, she realised that she could not and would not accept less anymore; that she would fight and demand for what she wanted, and not accept crumbs anymore. Well, she phrased that a whole lot better, but you know what I mean.

Maybe thats what you need to help you out of the fog? An idea of how you want the M to be hereon, and then you both work towards that.

And if I am wayyy of track here, pleasse forgive me.

****
BT,
You get the results yet?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that this sounds cold, but with all my heart, I know that him dying was a mercy.


(((Lost H)))) This doesn't sound cold at all. It sounds incredibly loving. It is you, once again, wishing the best for another person.

I am so glad about you seeing the homeopath and I like the fact that she is thinking about working in tandem with your IC. Sounds like you are on a good path.


You are just worth so much much more.

Weepy, I am with Lost H on this one. Can't you see that you don't deserve this?

FNF - sorry if I triggered you with my "Why's and What if's". I agree with Lost H's analysis though; I can't go back to "normal" because normal was imbalanced and unfair to me. I can only go forward from this point and that may or may not be with my H. I think I am forming a good idea of what I NEED from another person in my life and it is up to my H to prove that he is capable of being that person. 10 months and counting. I still remember those early days when I didn't think I would make it an hour!

We had a really good emergency MC session yesterday after the call to the LTA#1. Our Dr. was actually very glad that we took advantage of her email to call her and 1) get the answers that I said I "needed" and 2) to allow my H to put NC in place. She like the fact that he told her he had confessed everything to me including all names and dates. Also, the Dr. thought the fact that she found out she wasn't the only one took the "specialness" out of it forever. Although the call may have created fresh wounds, I think they will heal and it will allow me to stop "itching" the scabs of not knowing.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys, but you know, I don't know what I deserve any more. What I want any more or what I need any more. It seems one day it's this and one day it's that.

I can see when he knows he's fucked up. When he's said something stupid or mean. But he does what feels good to him at the moment, not realizing the damage he's doing and the "make up" behavior doesn't. Not any more. So, we'll be back to relationship issues at MC and I'm going to push for Retrouvaille again. There's a session in August in our area and another in October.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Although the call may have created fresh wounds, I think they will heal and it will allow me to stop "itching" the scabs of not knowing.

Shirley,Thats it! A temp step back but 3 forward.
Has it been 10 months already? Time flew, didnt it?
From what you say here, you and Mr Shirley are on the right track. I love the way you both work together to sort each obstacle, big and small. And I applaud the way you both hold on each other even when your plans dont quite work out.Well done to you both. And thank you, Shirley, for supporting everyone, even with full plate.

***
((((Weepy))))

I don't know what I deserve any more

Hope this doesnt come out too hard, Weepy, but I disagree with that line. I think you do know what you want and what you deserve. I think that you are exhausted from fighting for it, and disillusioned when he does deliver on that rare occassion. And from what you say here, it sounds to me, that he is tired too, and had slipped into old dance steps, like berating you.

Someone is going to have to give, and I am dreadfully afraid that it will be you.

I dont know what you look like and dont really care. But we can all see what you are like; loving, generous, compassionate, intelligent, but much much too hard on yourself.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blessings To All On The LTA thread.

This is for those who are in and have been in a R with a fully remorseful LTA spouse.

I saw this on a thread that asked how do we get through our spouse's affair. (I forget the exact title)

Erinlc replied, "When the quality of the current relationship shadows the past and makes the past better off left unvisited anymore."

This is not for newbies as you still need to work with fws on creating a "quality" relationship, nor is it for those with lta spouses who are not remorseful or who are still doing things that prevent the development of a quality relatinship.

I thought that this might help those of us who do have a remorseful fwlta spouse move on.

In my case, my fltaws IS the man and h who is NOW a wonderful spouse. He always should have been but wasn't, but since the quality of our current relationship (sustained over time) is wonderful, I need to leave the past unvisited. Reviewing the past just made me angry, upset and did not allow me to enjoy the now of our marriage.

I hope that what erinlc can help those of you in the same situation.

HUGS, NMS


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And thank you, Shirley, for supporting everyone, even with full plate.

Right back at ya Lost H...

Weepy - I (again) agree with Lost H. I am afraid that when push turns to shove it will be you that gives in an accepts what you know you don't want and need. You are fighting so hard for what you know you need and haven't received it. That is why you are so frustrated. Any way you and MC can get that through to him?

NMS - love the analogy about the present shadowing the past. With my Hs work, I think the eclipse is just beginning. Hopefully, it will keep moving along.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH: Belated Happy birthday to your angel and much love to you.

You are just worth so much much more.

Weepy, I am with Lost H on this one. Can't you see that you don't deserve this?


I hope you can get to Retrovaille with your H Weepy. We went to an ME weekend in '81 (married almost 8 yrs at the time) and I really wish we'd continued with the dialogue and support of the group. Esp. as I'm still waiting for my H to write me about the A as he said he would on Dday.

Our 35th anniversary is Monday and I've been sad and teary for days... not sure I'm up to 'celebrating'. We had a good couple of days away but returning home just brings it all back to mind. I want to move but there's no way that will happen. We are to attend a wedding tomorrow. It all seems too much right now.

No Mor Thanks for sharing Erinlc's message. I long for the day that our marriage reflects that sentiment if it ever does.

{{{LTA tribe}}} wherever you are.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, the biopsy was normal, so that's one worry down. And I got to attend orientation at the university with no glitches, so that is another down as well.

I don't know exactly what is going on with me, but I have a very unsettled feeling. Kind of a feeling of impending doom. Don't know where it's coming from or why.

Weepy, Retrouvaille was a great experience. I hope you can convince your husband to go. Why not just ask him outright to do it for you?

Lostsoul, we've kind of dropped the formal dialogues as well, but we have kept up the sharing of feelings and it's been a key to our improved marriage. Would H consider another ME weekend, or even Retrouvaille to get your guys back on track?

Shirley, you sound great. Very strong, very sure, very focused. Is that how you see yourself?

Lost, best luck on telling the kids. I hope it is a healing experience for all of you.

Speaking of healing experiences, I had an interesting IC session yesterday. Anyone have thoughts about past lives?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

YEAH BT!!! (Imagine a bunch of those clapping guys that all the long term SIers know how to put in)....

I am so glad that the test was normal. I am sure the Dr. is happy too as he probably wasn't up to getting his ass kicked!

Shirley, you sound great. Very strong, very sure, very focused. Is that how you see yourself?

Weeeellll, I am trying in between the tidal waves of doubt and sadness. Doubt about whether this IS the right thing....shouldn't he have to be punished more? He actually said (I kid you not) that he would be willing to be caned if that is the punishment I wanted.

Sadness over all the lost years. I am still mourning what could have been if he had just opened up and told me about all of his doubts and fears.

Also, worry about whether we will slip back into our old "normal" behaviors and the dance will start again.

Other than that ...just peachy!!

I don't know exactly what is going on with me, but I have a very unsettled feeling. Kind of a feeling of impending doom. Don't know where it's coming from or why.

BT - can you sit with it and see if it comes into focus. If I have learned anything our of this experience is trust your gut. Do you live in an earthquake area and your dog is acting weird? That kind of thing. Any sense at all of what the source may be? I believe very strongly in the brains ability to process information that we are not even consciously aware of.


Speaking of healing experiences, I had an interesting IC session yesterday. Anyone have thoughts about past lives?

Absolutely. If you think of what we are, just a bunch of atoms. What is to say that at least some of these atoms were part of another being at some time. Just as atoms join to become snow, then fall, melt turn to water and start all over, part of us could have been formed over and over and over. I think that is where some of that weird intuition comes from. It is as if our bodies know something before we do. Please tell me you aren't all backing out of the room to go get the really nice men in white coats!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lots to catch up on!

BT~ wonderful news on the biopsy!!

((((LH)))) Happy belated birthday to your dear sweet baby. I have to say, I found your words to show an amazing love for your baby. To know he is better off where he is and to wish that for him despite the terrible pain for you is amazing.

Shirley, i have no 2X4 for that phone call. I wish I had my H put the phone on speaker phone when I had the chance. Just didn't occur to me. Sounds like although it was painful, you got the answers you needed.

(((Weepy))) I think this is becoming a pivotal time for you. I think you are realizing that your relationship does not meet your needs and deciding if it ever will. I have noticed that you often say you are going to ask your Ha question in MC. Is it that you can't ask him just at home?Or do you have some agreement not to?

Had a bit of a surprising day yesterday. We both had to work (he had a meeting) and he called to ask me to go to lunch with him and the other people from his meeting. I was shocked he had thought of me! My first thought was worry if they knew about the A and it turns out two did, but it was fine. Then last night we had a long, serious talk about something completely other than the A. That was just amazing.We communicated, go figure. It was about what a jerk his dad is, but he shared his feelings and everything. About 5 am he leaned up on his elbow in bed and kissed me a couple times and told me he loved me then went back to sleep.
So some lovely surprises yesterday!


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We communicated, go figure. It was about what a jerk his dad is, but he shared his feelings and everything. About 5 am he leaned up on his elbow in bed and kissed me a couple times and told me he loved me then went back to sleep.


So Lost - That is so great both the communicating which is crucial and the small gesture of the kiss. Those little gestures mean so much. Much more than all the expensive jewelry in the world.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have noticed that you often say you are going to ask your Ha question in MC. Is it that you can't ask him just at home?Or do you have some agreement not to?

It's usually that we've tried to discuss it at home and gotten nowhere. Our "discussions" usually turn into his "knowing what I'm really thinking/saying" and by that time, it's no use to explain anything to him. So the other night I walked away when he started in with the "you always" and "you never" crap. It's not worth my breath to continue.

BT:Happy, happy for you on both counts. I can't imagine graduate school. I am swamped with this one course. Just so much to read and learn. On the "impending doom"... could it be that hurricane season just started? Could just be the remnants of worry you were carrying around and you just need a few days of "normal".

And I will ask him outright. I've tried approaching him with the "it's for US", but you guys are all right... I never ask for anything from him.. the Q is then, what do I do if he says no? It seems the more opportunity I give him to step up, and the more times he doesn't, then I'm looking at only one end to this drama and I'm not ready to do that yet.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regarding past lives:

I have taken hypnosis courses and doing a past life can be very revealing.

[This message edited by no mor surprises at 11:16 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:11 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

Yay BT!!!
Me doing the happy dance around the table...

Impending doom? Could it be, as Weepy suggested, the remnants of the worries and the crappy past month you have had? Could it also be that you have been expecting bad news and are uneasy that, Thank God, everything has gone relatively smoothly?
Or could it be your guardian angel warning you to be extra cautious.
Either way, take care.
We love you.

***

Had a bit of a surprising day yesterday

SoLost, thats great! May that be the start of many many more.

***

shouldn't he have to be punished more?

Shirley, this is one of the (many..lol)topics where my head and heart are totally at odds with each other. You dont want to be in the room when they are in dialogue!

Just the other day, his IC told him that he was too hard on himself; that it was not good for him to only see the bad, and that he should start recognising that he has good qualities too.

I am ashamed to admit that my first gut reaction was .
Are you kidding me? You are one of the most arrogant, self satisfied, pompous people I know. You still dont think that what you did was THAT bad. You still think that I, in some ways, am to blame for what you did. And maybe if you had spent more time previously thinking about how bad what you were doing was, you wouldnt have done half of it.. etc etc

After I got over myself, I felt bad. The thing is, that he is not that person anymore. And if he spends his life thinking that, he wouldnt want to get any better. He will just beat himself down. And even though he is not ready to go back to religion (another self punishment?) I know he knows that adultery is seen as extremely bad. One of the images that is given, is that the adulterers spend a long time intertwined in hell, having vats of boiling lava poured into their every orifice. Horrible picture.<shiver>

And I think how terrible it must feel to know that you have sinned so deeply and knowingly.And I truly feel sorry for him.

I went to him the next day, and told that he had been a crap father, had been a crap husband, but he is not that person anymore; that every day he is improving himself, and that maybe he should start seeing what he is doing right more often.

***
No Mor, that just gave me goosebumps. Wow.

That surely must have freaked your H out.

Now BT, you have all the curious cats out meowing.
Spill it!!

***
A little closer in time...
What do you guys think of traumatic birth experiences sort of setting you along a certain path?

The homeopath thought the fact that my mum had an extremely traumatic birth experience with me, set me up to be more reactive to certain elements.

***
UKG, where are you?
Are you ok?

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 2:16 AM, June 7th (Saturday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am ashamed to admit that my first gut reaction was .
Are you kidding me? You are one of the most arrogant, self satisfied, pompous people I know. You still dont think that what you did was THAT bad. You still think that I, in some ways, am to blame for what you did. And maybe if you had spent more time previously thinking about how bad what you were doing was, you wouldnt have done half of it.. etc etc

I've done this countless times and it was especially bad after he told me he had forgiven himself. "Wow, how nice for you."

But you're right, unless they stop feeling like complete losers (which was his constant attitude during the A ...I'm a failure), then they can't make any changes.

However, I'm constantly thrown by the attitudes that remain. This morning there was a morning show section about how food is becoming the next extravagent commodity (after fuel) and H went into the "we better get prepared for Armaggedon" mode. And criticized me for being someone who doesn't believe the worst is coming. And how I'll be surprised and see he was right when it does. (And there's a trigger right there ) He actually asked how much I'd spent on groceries this week and I told him and he said "and there's nothing in the fridge to eat". No, only fruit, vegetables, meat, milk, eggs, butter, bread, etc. So he asks "Well, what are you going to do when you can't afford to buy food any more?" WTF? If my son hadn't been in the room I might have told him something snarky like "Guess I'll have to take up the profession of your GFs to make a buck" or something similar. Well, I wouldn't have said it, but thought it anyway.

Or even worse, said something like "Of course, that's what I get for not suspecting the worst all the time.... screwed over."

I hate fucking living with this. And deep down, I really hate him for it. Until I can release that... we're NOT going to get anywhere.

[This message edited by weepy at 7:44 AM, June 7th (Saturday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH,
On this day may your sweet angel baby blow down kisses and hugs to comfort you. Although your baby passed on from this earth on this day, the memory lives on. And if you are religous like me, we will see our babies again and be able to spend eternity with them. I hope this is a peaceful day, one of reflection and one where you know our hearts are with you.

Love,
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost Heart

Blessings and prayers for you and your little angel.


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
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