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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hb, that sounds like a fantastic getaway. Love me the speedboats!

OK gang, sounds like everyone is in status quo mode here. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. No backsliding is progress in my book.

I'm seeing IC tonight and will ask her this question, but want your viewpoints. You know my H as well as anyone can.

How do I approach him about the phone calls? He's so damn skittish. I just want him to know that contact with these people is no longer acceptable (in case he didn't get it the first time around).

Everything I want to say just comes out snarky.

"So how many times were you planning to call these people before you told me?"

"When are you going to realize that secrets between us are no longer acceptable?"

"WTF were you thinking?????"

"Why would you choose them over me again?"

"When I agreed to stay and work on this M, there were 3 requirements. #3 was no more lying of any sort -- that one's a bust #2 was no secret contact with women, no one on one contact with women (other than nuclear family members) -- you broke that one too, and the #1 requirement NO contact with anyone (without my presence) who was in your life during the affairs, anyone who knew her, knew of your affair and especially not E & L. They were completely off limits. Phone records show that you've called them twice in the last month."

THe last one seems reasonable, but where do I go from there. I want him to tell me why he contacted them and that he realizes it was a huge betrayal of trust (again) and has put the R process on hold indefinately until and if he can pull his head out of his ass permanently. if he can't, if he won't stop contact with them, I want him to know I'm done.

Like others have posted here, if one of them were to drop dead at his feet, he better run, not walk away. I don't even want a 911 placed.

[This message edited by weepy at 7:53 AM, June 13th (Friday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In fact, you're doing great, Lost

I guess I am riding the downer now, because I certainly dont feel any of the kind words you said, BT (btw, thank you so much for that).
I feel like a complete fake.

***

Shirley,
You are doing so incredibly well

BT, Have I mentioned lately how brilliant you are and what a support you are here?

Hearbroken, I feel the same way about you

Thanks all of you for being there for me as well as those who read my posts and didn't respond

This is one fine bunch of women!!

Feel the love, people!!!

(((((((LTA Tribe)))))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning LTA Tribe,

I have been gone since May 22nd. H and I took a LONG vacay... we spent 3 days in TN. Beautiful country, and we toured Jack Daniels Distillery. I wasn't sure I would enjoy it, but it was really interesting!!! We bought 2 commemorative bottles-- one for our son and one for us!

From there we spent 1 nite in Alabama in a town called Andalusia. The RV park was on Gant Lake and everyone was friendly, and the lake was awesome.

The next day we arrived at Topsail RV Park in Destin Florida. We spent 12 days there. The weather was great, not a drop of rain!!! At home that was not the case... my D called to tell me the basement was really taking on water... so I said do your best and I would take care of it when we got home!

We were going to take about 3 days coming home and arrive back here on the 11th, but we got a call on Sat. the 7th. A fellow police officer and friend of my H passed away.
He was only 46 . So we came home the 8th. Spent Monday helping the Family and for visitation. Tues. was the funeral. My H was a pallbearer along with several other police officers. It's really something to see so many grown men cry!
The dept. my H works for is like an extended family. Everyone helps in the planning and the details. It is ALOT more mournful... the bagpipes, the gun salute, all of it.

I am sorry that everyone seems to be struggling... I have been happy and satisfied. I can honestly say that I LOVE my FWH.

I am going to the gym with my D and then shopping, but I will check in later, depending on the weather! It's suppose to storm again!! Living in the midwest right now isn't a good thing!!


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,

I think the only option is to do it straight, and really listen to his reply.


Shirley,

You asked about whether the love comes back. It very definitely did for me.

Some of it came back just with an appreciation for all the changes he was making and how very hard he was trying. But I think much more of it came back as a result of me doing loving actions for him and appreciating the ones he was doing for me.

It's funny, I'm remembering now that they told us that at Retrouvaille. If you want to learn to love someone, then just do it. Just love them.

I'm not saying fake it till you make it. I'm saying that treating someone in a loving way helps to increase the feelings of love you have for them (assuming of course they are not total jackasses who continue to hurt you or neglect you or denigrate your acts of love.)

The other night after a particularly long day, my husband was having some heart arrythmias, which was of concern because of his history of heart trouble. When I woke up in the morning I found that I had slept with my hand on his heart, trying I guess to will it to be OK. It is times like that when I realize how very much I do love my husband and what a treasure we have in our marriage.

That is all attitude -- our decision to look at what we have built today instead of what we did not have in the past. Had we both not been willing to do that -- to dream of being better people and better spouses -- we wouldn't have much to treasure.


BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want him to tell me why he contacted them and that he realizes it was a huge betrayal of trust (again) and has put the R process on hold indefinately until and if he can pull his head out of his ass permanently. if he can't, if he won't stop contact with them, I want him to know I'm done.

(((weepy)))

What do you plan to do if he says he is sorry, that he wont do it again, and then... he does...again?

Is this a dealbreaker?
Was it a dealbreaker before?
And please, Weepy, dont think for a minute that he does not know that what he is doing, is out of order. He knows.
I just dont understand why.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been happy and satisfied. I can honestly say that I LOVE my FWH

What a great break you two had, Lovin!!
I am so so happy for you. Thank you for sharing.

****

I found that I had slept with my hand on his heart, trying I guess to will it to be OK.

Wow. Just wow BT.
That is beautiful.
<happy>

That is all attitude -- our decision to look at what we have built today instead of what we did not have in the past. Had we both not been willing to do that -- to dream of being better people and better spouses -- we wouldn't have much to treasure.

Awesome.

BT, you do know that we all think that you DO have super powers, right?
So I wouldnt be in the least surprised that your love does heal him. Look at all thats its done already.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost, I wish you could go back and read my early posts here. They were dripping with judgment and sarcasm and just plain meanness. Of the thousands of people's posts I have read on SI over the years, I don't think there were more than a handful more full of venom and vitriol than me.

All borne of the awful pain we all know so well.

If I can get beyond that, bad as I was, anyone can. You just have to be willing to think in different ways, to try things you haven't before, and to want to change badly enough to actually make it happen.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy - as the others have said....First, go at it straight on but calm. Let him know that YOU KNOW that he has violated very clear boundaries. YOU KNOW that he knows these boundaries and that he does it anyway. Ask him, as calmly as possible, why he would do that? As far as I can see the only truthful answer is that he 1) either doesn't give a shit about your boundaries 2) he has learned that there are no meaningful repercussions to violating the boundaries or 3) both of the above. I wish you luck but I think he will just continue to mess with you until you put a clear stop to the game.

BT-

If you want to learn to love someone, then just do it. Just love them.

Ya know, BT, your answers are so pure that they make complete and utter sense. This is the struggle. This is why we need time. I am still too close to the beginning to feel comfortable just loving him. I am nice to him. I do nice things for him at times. He is gentle and loving with me but the hurt is too fresh still. I guess that one year mark, two year mark, etc really do matter. I can see a place further out when the pain is duller where this might be possible but not yet. But I might try anyway?

When I woke up in the morning I found that I had slept with my hand on his heart, trying I guess to will it to be OK. It is times like that when I realize how very much I do love my husband and what a treasure we have in our marriage.

That is truly inspiring.

I am trying so hard to live in the now and see what he is doing for himself and for us. We had a great talk last night about those intervening 6 years. How he struggled to "come back" once the affairs were over. He sees now that there was no way back without admitting the truth - especially to himself - and doing the work he is doing now to understand why he did what he did.

Personally, I still think he has a lot of digging to do inside that head of his about his sister and their relationship. His IC calls it the Madonna complex but apparently he saw his sister as this pure and loving mother figure that he then wanted to have sex with.

Only by admitting it and "shining the light on it" can he see that for what it is. Interestingly, I am the polar opposite of his sister. We couldn't BE any more different.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

I think I'd be happy I was the polar opposite of his sister.

As far as acting in a loving way, let me tell you that you are in no danger of it working too quickly. It took quite a while for that to work, in my case. But it did make me feel better -- in general and about myself and I really needed that after the hit my self-esteem took on d-day.

I think we all have an innate (inate?, how the hell do you spell that) wisdom that pulls back when we push too far too fast. You seem to me to be very centered and deliberate with yourself and you have good help from IC. So I wouldn't worry about things going too fast.

Man, it is pouring here. I am praying for everyone in the midwest. Those four boy scouts just break my heart.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sounds like you are heading for some sort of breakdown.

Ha, ha, ha!!!! (Maniacal laughter) Yep! Iíve been keeping under control and now the gasketís about to go. I can just feel it. I actually wrote to FWH that Iím sliding on ice, losing my grip and that I am heading for a complete physical, emotional and mental breakdown.

this part of the journey was actually forgiving myself for staying.

This is what I need. I am constantly beating myself up for staying with someone who has committed this act which feels like itís killing me. I feel I should get out from under and scream at him to get the fuck out of my life. But thatís not what I want. Head vs heart. Common sense vs the irrational. Logical vs illogical. Thereís a battle that wonít be over until one or the other is dead. Kwim?

But hey, HB, have a beautiful time on your vacation. Your sweet nature deserves a break. However, I hope youíve taken out a low rate loan for the fuel!

Wimsey Ė do you feel detached from the father/son relationship your H has? It seems sometimes as if your H is like a sort of godfather in place of a missing/dead father to the child. Not really connected by blood, more by a loving duty. I could never put myself in your place and your strength is enlightening for me. I think ďwow, I wish I could be more accepting like 25WĒ. Amazing. Just amazing.

if we had even tried to contemplate what this process would be like, we would never had made it.

Thatís it, Shirley. If he had given me all that I know now in those first few weeks, I would have been a hopeless wreck on MCís doorstep. Two years. I thought it would be over by Christmas and I would be wearing my wedding ring again Ö.

Weepy. I have bought and given my H the Katie Coston How to Gain Forgiveness and Respect After Your Affair. He saw the printed off instructions this morning (had some trouble downloading), so I thought Iíd just give it to him on a memory stick along with a letter Iíd written about NOT telling me the TRUTH about the affair. Weíre away this weekend with both sets of parents, so it will be shelved for a few days. I didnít think heís read it, but he has. The effect? Wait and see. But. Weepy, it might be useful for your H? Itís not overly long and is only $13 or something. But. Itís not for the BS to read. Which is okay, cos we have LOTS of BS reading anyhow, including the Why Women Talk and Men Walk. Try it weepy, it might just help YOU. Not a 180, just trying a change of perspective.

Lovinlife, sounds like a great time until the rotten news. FWH had the same thing. He had been best man at Steveís wedding, then he was pallbearer. The guy was 46 too. It was a time of total disbelief.

BT, your post struck a chord. Itís easy to do, isnít it? If you want to love someone, you focus on their good points and why they make you happy. Thatís what we all did when we fell in love with them in the first place. And because it was easy, it made us euphorically in lust. And if you want to fall out of love? Itís frequently recommended that you focus on the bad points, the bad times. Iím sure I could fall out of love with my FWH just by concentrating on what he has done, how he felt about OW and how he didnít give a shit about me or us. I want to remember all the things we have done and we have had. We have had a partnership that others have aspired to have and some have been jealous of. I have to hold on to that.

We are away this weekend with both sets of parents (DS4 being left with DS3 & gf ). A general present to all four with a river trip and the London Eye. H asked me if Iíd wear my wedding ring. I gave a side long look and shook my head. No. I think he asked more in hope than expectation.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK, have had that book for almost 3 years. It's in his nightstand gathering dust. He read like 30 pages and stopped, even though I encouraged him and thanked him for doing it.

You know no one (except me) has told him to be transparent, 100% honest, that its necessary for regaining trust. Not our MC, and even if his IC has, it's not taking.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You just have to be willing to think in different ways, to try things you haven't before, and to want to change badly enough to actually make it happen.

I want that, BT. Alot.

My IC thinks part of the reason that my mum and I dont see eye to eye, is that I am doing things differently in the M than she did/does. And for her to accept how I am handling this life after LTA, might mean to her that she did it the wrong way. And for someone who thinks that she did many things wrong in her life, that this might be too much for her to handle.

***

This is why we need time. I am still too close to the beginning to feel comfortable just loving him.

And you are doing just great at your own pace (which is pretty fast, believe me!!).

As for the SIL angle....
eeewwh.

****
Ukg,

a river trip and the London Eye.

Well well...if its tomorrow night, H and I might just run into you lot !
We were thinking of doing the London Eye, but felt too guilty to do that without the kids.

We split the evening, he chose the activity (comedy club..yay!), and I chose the restaurant.

I told him that we are going to have a nice, easy, fun evening, and it didnt matter whether the comics werent funny, or the food was awful, we were just going to have fun! No expectations, no worries.
He has become so stressed about these things, that I could just see the relief on his face.

We have always enjoyed each other's company. Still do.

***
Have a good weekend, everyone.

PS. Ukg, its going to be a bit chilly, esp in the evening.So take care.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl -

Yep! Iíve been keeping under control and now the gasketís about to go. I can just feel it. I actually wrote to FWH that Iím sliding on ice, losing my grip and that I am heading for a complete physical, emotional and mental breakdown.

Ummm, I hope you are kidding, right?
If you really feel this way, along with some of the other physical symptons you have had, I think you really should see someone right away. If this is not a joke, you could be putting yourself at risk. Please tell me you are not doing this to punish your H.

((((UkGirl)))

On that topic,

You just have to be willing to think in different ways, to try things you haven't before, and to want to change badly enough to actually make it happen.

Our MC made an important and very insightful observation over a month ago. I think it was something that allowed me to move forward (baby steps! ). Anyway, she said that I wasn't letting go of the pain and anger because I wanted to keep it around to punish him. Of course, my first reaction was ....pain and anger... . But when I stopped and really thought about it and was honest with myself, I realized she was right. I wanted to let some of it go for me but didn't want any of it to go because I wanted him to see me in pain to know what a horrible thing he had done. I was essentially torturing myself to death in order to mildly torture him. That wasn't working so well was it?

So I let the pain and anger that were held there for him to see but were not true go. I felt better immediately. The book helped too.

All you Brits have fun doing cool stuff. We are stiiiiilllll doing all the soccer, tryouts, grads, etc. AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 4:23 PM, June 13th (Friday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If this is not a joke, you could be putting yourself at risk
.

Ukg, come on...you are worrying us.
Please get yourself checked up. Dont do this to yourself.

***

We are stiiiiilllll doing all the soccer, tryouts, grads, etc. AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH

Whens the last time you have been on a date, Shirley?
And you know I meant with your H!!

How about giving him a shock, and asking him on one??


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl,

Count me in among those who are scared for you.

I feel like I have been hearing a touch, sometimes more, of panic in your posts. Like you are right on the edge.

If that's the case, I hope you are starting the IC pretty soon. And if you've already started, I hope you tell her and let her help you.

Please. For us and for your four boys who clearly love you so dearly. Take care of yourself.

bT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whens the last time you have been on a date, Shirley?

That's a great idea!! There is this absolutely adorable new pro at the club who would be perfect....


And you know I meant with your H!!

Oh, sure Lost Heart just go ahead and ruin aaaallll the fun!!!

We have done some date nights. We tend to leave the kids and go out to dinner. But I think I would like to start doing some more fun things again. A comedy night sounds fun...what a great idea. God knows I could use a laugh!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, that is a great post--makes sense and it's something I forget--others have phrased it as when you feel like moving away, move towards them. Thanks.

UK, now that you mention it, it is midway between a father and a godfather R for H, mostly cuz of the long intervals between visits. And I do sort of feel detached, but that's okay--I have no aspirations to be mom, and it's not feasible to be a real stepmom cuz of the circumstances of both his conception and the long distance. And since I don't get to talk to him during the biweekly phone calls (OW's doing), I really don't get to know him as much as H does.

But who knows what the future will bring. Now I'm going to print out BT's post and remember why I'm putting up with all this--cuz H is remorseful and trying and all that jazz. Still sucks though.

And don't think I'm some sort of super-acceptor--remember it's been nearly 3 years, I've always felt that a child is not an unexpected outcome of fucking someone, and I like kids. But I am not accepting of OW, and never will be. Could go on and on, but we all have the same feelings about the people who hung around for so long and helped devastate our lives!!


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:54 AM, June 14th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

anybody here?

Can't sleep... don't think I should take more meds...


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, June 14th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey LostSoul!

How are you?

ETA:
Sorry I missed you, LostS.
Hope you managed to go to sleep ok.
If you want to chat, I will be in in and out today. Sometimes, it helps me to get it all out here, esp if I cant do it IRL, KWIM?

Take care.
(((LOstS)))

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 4:08 AM, June 14th (Saturday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 5:31 AM, June 14th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still haven't slept. I don't even want to lie in my bed.
So I'm surfing SI and wondering what the h**l I am doing?

H called at midnight just as I was giving up on hearing from him and I was angry rather than relieved. So tired of him saying one thing and doing another. I asked why he bothered calling me. "I wanted to hear your voice". My voice would have been much more pleasant if he'd called several hours earlier!

the sun is coming up here. today will be a waste.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
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