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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N.P.D. Thread part VI
veritas
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Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((itsa))) Maybe so. Could also be the No More Drama So Now What Do I Do With My Every Waking Moment Syndrome. I know a lot of people get addicted, for lack of a better word, to always being wired and paranoid and having to watch their backs that when they no longer have to do that, they still have that anxiety, but they have no outlet for it. And so they still worry about the ex and what the ex is doing because they're just not used to thinking about themselves yet. It takes time to rebuild (or in some cases, just plain build) a life where what you do matters and what you think matters.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
lied2
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Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to agree with Veritas. It is likely the Constant drama you and your children have endured takes time to recover from. I do think some people (like my ex) feed on the drama and basically need it in their lives. It is difficult for those around them to adjust to it and after they have basically been trained to live with it for years it is hard to adjust to life without it.

I know at times I find my live boring and in some ways that is stressful after living in the chaos for so long. I love the peaceful times I have but it is definitally a challenge to make a new path for me and my children.

I know in my marriage at the end I raged back at the ex. It was terrible because he would rage all the more. It was damaging for everyone but I was at the breaking point. I couldn't that the insanity any more. I am so glad to get away from it because I was certain that it was going to kill me if I didn't.

((((tribe)))))


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
popolop
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Member # 19068
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I may be suffering from Drama Withdrawal as well. After BIL and FIL left for vacation, I haven't had any news on the latest crisis my STBX is causing. Its actually kind of funny because her NPD came and bit her in the ass. She went to talk to a D lawyer who proceeded to charge her $450/hr for a two hour consultation, then asked for $5500 retainer. Since she so desperately needs to be liked, she paid it all with no questions asked. I was mad at first but now I just laugh. She got taken because of her own selfish needs that get her into every mess. God it feels good to be out of that!


Me: 28
NPDSTBXWW: 28
D-Day: 4/1/08 (April Fool's! hahaha...*cough*)
WW asked for divorce: 4/11/08

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2008
Balancing Act
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Member # 19047
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so loving not having the DRAMA in my life....the pouting the martyrdom, the sighing...the way the hair would stand up on the back of my neck if i thought he was coming downstairs where i was....

good freakin' riddance!

I got over THAT really quickly!


Me - BS....living a wonderful new beginning and giving love another chance

Tulsa Area Coffee Buddy


Posts: 2443 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: in the middle, somewhat elevated
Ron7127
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Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes, I still cannot believe I am out and not facing the everyday abuse. I go home and no one is pissed at me. I don't have to tiptoe around, dodging criticism and verbal abuse. It's nice, but I have to get used to it.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
luv2swim
♀ Member
Member # 13154
Default  Posted: 3:24 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe))) I have just started reading a new book (2008 publishing) on narcissists....

"are you being hurt by the one you love?
FREEING YOURSELF FROM THE NARCISSIST IN YOUR LIFE
at home, at work, with friends"
by Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD.

So far...the book is eye popping incredible.
Incredibly incredible!

For me, it is the final lifting of my denial veil (as in, "no way is STBXH a narcissist, he is just in male depression, he is just whatever".

Over and over I see STBXH and his family in this book... and I am only 60 pages into it!

From the book:

The narcissist has an incredible sense of self-entitlement. Everything is about him and belongs to him. He smoothly oversteps the personal boundaries of others, mistreating, devaluing, and humiliating them to bend them to his will and his desires. He is the hunter, they are the prey. Like the dominate male lion of the pride, the narcissist knows that he deserves the first fruits of the kill.
The heroic narcissistic vision of self bears no resemblence to objective reality. The narcissist resides in a separate universe, keeping himself expanded like a human dirigible."

The book goes on to profile some narcissists from this women's clinical practice, including some divorce scenarios that sound chilling.
In one she writes -
"Kevin was not only obsessed with winning the divorce battle but also with vanquishing his former wife. The reality that he had caused irreparable psychological and economic harm to his first spouse and their children never entered his mind. Only Kevin's wishes and desires mattered."

More:
"Although he is a malevolent human being, the narcissist believes that he is a "good person". Blind to his deceptions and cruelties, he automatically plays the role of victim when he is accused of iniquity."

She gives examples of the narcissist fooling all most everyone into believing they are a "good person", meanwhile exhibiting cruel neglectful behavior towards spouse and children. She writes about the image maker aspects of some narcissists, how the narcissist can be a conjurer to create a "flawless persona".

"The narcissist is always preoccupied with the impression he is making. This is particularly critical when he decides that he must win someone over to achieve personal gain or satisfaction. Narcissists are perfectionists. For some, everything in their environment.. homes, cars, personal effects... must relfect a flawless self. "

... "Some individuals lead their entire lives exclusively on a surface level. They are incapable of introspection, the process of going inside oneself. Their focus is on the material."

The final paragraph in part one of the book is this:
"Beneath the bravado and grandiose actions of the narcissist we behold a psychological portrait that is dark, painful, and menacing. Backstage, the truth about this character is revealed in all of its deception, manipulation, and cruelty."

The first paragraph of part two:

"The narcissist is a master at extracting the pulp and juice of others -- their time, talent, creative ideas, energies.. to serve his purpose alone. When he has distilled the best from you and all that is of value to him, he discards the rest and moves on. ALL relationships with narcissistic individuals are exploitive. Believing that you have a real understanding with one of them is a blind illusion. Whether personal or professional, agreements, contracts, or covenants with narcissists are made to be broken."

"There is always a time certain when a relationship with a narcissist will end. ...... Regardless of their years of loyalty and sacrifice, these faithful servants are coldly discarded, like trash thrown into a Dumpster. Eventually, calamity strikes; the hour of dismissal arrives. These are the moments when one is most at the narcissist's mercy -- a little child cowering in the corner. The moment you cease to satisfy his endless ego needs, the narcissist will dispose of you. If you thwart him, he may destroy you."

"The narcissist is at all times a deceiver, never straight, clear, or true. He thrives in an illusive world of curves and meanders. He has mastered the ability to delude himself and others."

"Emotionally detached and isolated, the narcissist is incapable of truly caring for someone else. This callousness allows him to launch plans that psychologically wound others if he perceives them as a threat. In his obsession to win at all costs, he is unencumbered by ethics or morality. Hurt feelings, financial ruin, blighted reputations, incipient illnesses, broken relationships, suicides... are the tragic residue of the narcissist's endeavors. He leaves many lives in disarray and chaos, like bodies strewn on a battle field. He coolly steps over these ravaged corpses to reach his destination. The length of a relationship or its history is never a factor in how long it will last. At some point, determined by HIS wishes and desires, the relationship will come to an end. The narcissist will make his decisive move, leaving his partner, friend, or spouse bruised, battered and abandoned."

"The narcissist puts his life in neat compartments that are sealed off from one another. He is able to activate self-identifications of vitality, superiority, success and power. These are kept separate from the unconscious parts of himself that feel depressed, enraged, empty, and helpless. It is as if one side of the body is unaware of the sensations and activities of the other side. It is not unusual for a narcissistic personality to juggle a series of mistresses and wives with other peripheral affairs as well. Narcissists often have multiple marriages that produce different generations of children.
Practicing deception is common and customary among narcissists. These activities are veiwed neither as betrayals of a marraige, nor as psychologically damagin to a partner, spouse, or child."

"The narcissist cannot view himself objectively. Imcapable of insight or self-criticism, he bases his identity on the illusion that he is unqiue, that there is no one in the world with his special gifts and talents."

"He doesn't lose sleep at night over the human misery caused by his multiple cruelties."

"A narcissist is a chameleon, taking on the shape, color and texture of the environment around him."

"The narcissist is a tyrant who controls the world that he creates. He holds absolute pwer over his subjects, who have no rights of their own. Like a dicatator, he writes arbitrary laws that everyone is expected to obey."

The narcissist is always aware of the end game... how he will dispose of a partner... In his psychological world one person is interchangeable with another. The narcissistic personality adroitly finds a replacement who is prettier, handsomer, younger, more amusing, smarter, and more exciting than the last. Like a lightbulb that has burned out, the once prised individual is replaced by a new and shinier one."

"The narcissitic personality controls others the way he was controlled as a child."

"Lies roll offr the tongue of a narcissist as smoothly as butter melting on hot bread. For him, lying is as natural as breathing. Even a trained observer, a therapist, can be fooled by these lies. ..... The narcissist often believes his lies. For him there is no ultimate objective truth, only his carefuly crafted version of reality."
..."He looks you right in the eye and lies without hesititaion. He is glib with his lies, he shades the truth or tells an outright lie. He is a master at justifying lies to himself".... "Lying for the narcissit is ego-syntonic, meaning that he is comfortable with this kind of behavior.
Narcissists lie thorugh a mechanism called revisionism. They rewrite the history of an event, a contract, an agreement, or a relationship to secure their goals."

So far... this is a GREAT BOOK! I think it must reading for our tribe!


Me: BS
Him: NPD WS
Married 24 years
incredible kids
D day: 2006 ... he left to live with OW.
Divorced: 2009
WS + OW: Married 2011

Posts: 340 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: US
dreamlife
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Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 5:40 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I got over the drama FAST and it was a huge relief to boot the POS out 9/06!

luv, wow, I'm getting that book! Thanks for posting and sharing!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just in case I have never mentioned it before, I hate my ex-husband.

I ditto that.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
popolop
♂ Member
Member # 19068
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post, luv. thanks for that.


Me: 28
NPDSTBXWW: 28
D-Day: 4/1/08 (April Fool's! hahaha...*cough*)
WW asked for divorce: 4/11/08

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2008
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Veritas and Lied - I think you might be right. I have lived with all of that drama and now there is none. Whilst I am very happy about that I still feel a sense of emptiness.
I am finding rebuilding my life to be really hard. As much as I love my kids I feel trapped by them as well. There is never any time for me. I know I am moaning but I am in a real trap. I go to work which is quite boring and pick up kids, come home and do chores. I am in the job because it is conveinient and fits round the kids. I think I know what I want to do with my life but I don't know how to get there!

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
lied2
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Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((its))))) I am so there with you. Everything is up to us and we do all the activities of living and the next day we rince and repeat. I have sat here wondering "now what" for quite some time and I am still not sure I have an answer.

Sure I have done things that I am proud of but still I feel an emptiness at times and I am realy not sure I know how to fill it. I know the answer is not found in another activity or relationship. I know I often use goals to fill the space in between but I still wonder "IS this all there is?". Very much the middle crisis kind of stuff.

The one thing I have found that helps is to do thinks each day that I live to do. It can be something as simple as to watch my favourite show or have a quiet cup of coffee (the good stuff) and give myself a "treat" because I deserve it. I am trying to be a little kinder to me because I have found myself wondering if I am supposed to be somehow different and then I would not feel this way. (if I was prettier, thinner etc). But I think I need to work on embracing myself and telling myself I am good just the way I am and letting me be the person I am and happy with that.

I know that I got so caught up in meeting everyone else's needs that I didn't take care of me. I am trying to change that. I figure if I don't then I am going to still be vulnerable to getting into a relationship that is not healthy for me just because I want to not look at the emptiness and instead try and make it go away.

I hate the feeling but I am also working on just feeling the feeling. (not sure if that makes sense). I don't like uncomfortable feelings so I tend to run from them. I tend to give to others to avoid feeling and then I am even more empty because my own love bank is even more empty. I need to love me and accept me warts and all even if it is on a day when I feel uncomfortable being me.

I know meditation is also helping me alot. That is the part of accepting me and accepting not being totally comfortable, fulfilled etc. I try to accept those feelings and do nothing about them. Instead I focus on being present today. (Thanks BOB) If I can find peace for today even if I am not perfectly overjoyed with my life then I have the energy to find the good things in today as well. I hope that then I won't be so overwelmed trying to reach my goals that just leaving me with more emptiness and looking for more goals to fill my time. I have wasted too much time wishing, striving, hoping and lost me.

I don't know if any of that makes a bit of sense.

I am striving for no drama of my own making as well. I know that my kids have a habit of making alot of drama as well because of their disabilities and I find it very overwelming. I am hoping that if I can have calm it will brush off on them. I fear they have learned the habit of chaos as well and it frightens me to think that they could take this with them into their own adult lives.

That book sounds awesome. Does it have more on what to do once you are on your way to evicting them from your life?


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe)))

Me likes what I hear of that book so far !!!!

Breaking from the drama. It is weird, isn't? We've spent so much time immeresed in the chaos that is N that as we move away it's hard to adjust. Freedom is weird like that.

Emptiness. Oh my stars !!! I never felt so "alone" in my life as I did with STBXPDW. She's there but not there. Ughhhhh

Went to pre-traail to day. As always, it never fucking ends. No paper work, no taxes, no parenting plan, nothing from STBXPDW and her lawyer. Then he tried to lay into me. Whatever. I held up my usb drive with 220 emails of STBXPDW lack of cooperation. Fiasco. He had to stop her as she started into an "outburst". Lucky him having her for a client, huh? LOL.

Ya'll have guided me well. Thank you.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lied - you make total sense to me! I guess it is learning to know myself after all of this time and realising that I am worth caring for. I would love to have some sort of relationship with a man as I am going through that really lonely stage but I also know that the answer lies with myself and nobody else can fill the void within. I think my void is what the relationship with the freak has left me with. who am I? I know what I was before him and I know what I became but what am I going to be now?
I hope each day is bringing me closer to that knowledge. I think I would have found it before now if I did not have the kids to care about. I have put them before myself for so long that I have forgotten who I am. I guess this is part of the stage my counsellor was going on about... she kept stressing what an exciting part this is - finding myself. I think I have missed the point as I am far from excited. Woe is me today!

Bob - as always you are in control of the situation. And she looks like the fool she is. Onwards!


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
cjonesjag
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Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the pouting the martyrdom, the sighing...the way the hair would stand up on the back of my neck if i thought he was coming downstairs where i was....

b-act...me too !


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
OutFromUnder
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Member # 19061
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I, too, hate my ex-husband's guts. There. That felt good to tell someone.

I see "discarded like trash" so much. That is what I wrote and wrote in my journal after he moved out. Yep, he took all I had to give, squeezed me dry and discarded me like a piece of trash. There, he showed me.

He believes his lies, is utterly incapable of introspection, uses revisionism--hoo boy! Do they ever.

I'm lonely now but I was lonlier with him. Often though I wonder, what more is there? Is this it? Born of narcissists and wed to one for most of my life. I feel different and not in a good way. And I just feel almost completely empty. It seems like everything is a major effort anymore. I'm wrung out.

Well, what can we all do but just keep swimming?

This book Freeing Yourself--is it a good read for people who have freed themselves? Does it have any chapters on Fallout or Aftermath?


Posts: 79 | Registered: Apr 2008
Balancing Act
♀ Member
Member # 19047
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't had a chance to catch up with all the new posts, but I can second Luv2swim's recommendation of "Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life."

I've just started reading it also (p 42) and I am very glad I've found it.


Me - BS....living a wonderful new beginning and giving love another chance

Tulsa Area Coffee Buddy


Posts: 2443 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: in the middle, somewhat elevated
peridot
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Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm beginning to really think that my husband is NPD. I was reading some of what is in that book. I'm going to make a trip to the library.

A question for those of you who have been dealing with this for awhile. For those of you who don't know my background. My husband has a porn,sex addiction. I caught him with prostitutes phone numbers. He is finally seeking help for the porn. I'm thrilled that he is finally getting help for that but he is still lying about the phone numbers.

My question is this, if he really continues with the counseling and admits the truth about the phone numbers, would you stay and give him another chance? He wants to work things out but he has to do both of those things before I will even consider going back to him, we are seperated. Have any of you ever tried to R with someone who is NPD and did it work?


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
Ron7127
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Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've read and heard the NPD is virtually untreatable, like pedophilia. It sucks because at times, they can make you feel great and we like that part. But, the NPD is an integral part of who they are. You cannot distill it out.
Lonelieness was the prevailing feeling I had in my marriage. I wanted to believe my wife cared about me and was intersted in me as something other than a meal ticket. My subconcious realized very early on that she felt nothing for me(except contempt). I had no value to her other than as a source of cash and social status. I remember very early on wondering how on earth I was going to be able to tolerate this lonlieness long term.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
Balancing Act
♀ Member
Member # 19047
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cjones...i'm so sorry honey! yep, they are crazy-making!

lied..thank you for your post (and BOB) about being in the moment. I am going to re-read some of this because it really struck me the first time through.

Peridot - if you WH is NPD, you will have to realize that you are nothing more than an object to them. You supply him with something he needs, but if you stop supplying it, he's done....you're out....and you will be thankful! I think the real tragedy is people who keep trying to make the NPD 'feel' something...sympathy, empathy, love, caring....

it.just.isn't.going.to.happen.

What does end up happening is that rather than giving him the positive 'supply' that he would prefer, you are giving him the negative 'supply' that he will make do with until he finds that positive supply he's looking for. That's not a relationship, that's a tragedy.


Me - BS....living a wonderful new beginning and giving love another chance

Tulsa Area Coffee Buddy


Posts: 2443 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: in the middle, somewhat elevated
peridot
♀ Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking of supplying him with something that he needs lol... since I quit having sex with him, he doesn't stay around for very long anymore. It's not just that but I have stopped giving him much attention.I hardly speak to him when I do see him. We're seperated and he used to spend a lot of time over here. Now he may spend an hour over here. One thing I can say is that I feel more at peace,happy without all the fighting.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
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