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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N.P.D. Thread part VI
Ron7127
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Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, yes, cj, I forgot the silent treatments, her weapon of choice> She would rage occassionally, but the silent treatments were so common. I think you are right that they feel that if they were not screaming or whatever, there was no abuse.
I could never treat someone this way, although, I admit, after years of this i did the detachment thing> I'd read about detaching from BPD's and NPD's as a way to survive. It sucked for me. I was so lonely, but I could not allow myself to be hurt anymore.
Once, I actually cried in front of her, begging her to stop the constant fighting and criticism. She looked at me with utter contempt and sneered> I never let myself show my hurt again>
My wife did incredible stuff.She asked for a hug before I left to play golf with her dad. She had a glss of cold water behind her back and dumped it all over me when I embraced her.
We played scrabble one night and she spelled "penis" and then proceeded to use it in a sentence to "prove" it was not a bluff word. Her choice of sentences:"My husband has no penis."
She told me I was like a woman and had no balls. She told me that I had everyone that liked me fooled and that she knew I was really bad inside.
She would question the paternity of my sons from my previous amrriage. Often she would remark regarding my mentally handicapped son" I don't mean to be mean but, I wonder if he would be higher functioning if someone(me) had done a better job raising him? (how the fuck is that not mean?).
I could go on. But, I hate that bitch with every fiber in my body.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
cjonesjag
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Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I could go on. But, I hate that bitch with every fiber in my body.

With good reason Ron.. What a BEOTCH!

It seems so much more common that its the *male* NPD doing the abusing, that I'll bet it was very isolating for you to be in the reverse situation (its a societal thing, not my thinking).

Your wife has "male issues". And I don't mean this in a gender-based role type of thing, but to go after your HUSBANDS' masculinity in the manner she did is just absolutely disgusting. That is some seriously messed-up HUMAN thinking. I hope that you've been able to crawl out from underneath it all ~ I'm sure its done quite the number on your self-confidence, which is pretty much a non gender-based result of this type of life.

The lack of empathy and the feeling of being the receipient of absolute "contempt" in their eyes is horrible to live with. And then, they will turn around and proclaim their "love" for you. HUH? On WHAT planet is that love?

It takes a lot of personal strength to come out of this with minimal soul-scars.. I feel horrible for the ways all of these N's have made all of you kids feel..its so wrong.



Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
bobelina
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Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((CJ)))

Buttcrack.

LOL.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found that it was constantness of the abuse that was the wrost part. It totally undermines the reality of the situation because you get used to be abused daily.

The disgusting part is that the kids start to think it is "normal" and act it out as well.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
bobelina
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Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The disgusting part is that the kids start to think it is "normal" and act it out as well.

When the kids and I still lived with STBX*Evil*Ass*PDW (LOL) they were pretty rotten to me. I believe they "didn't" know better and were just doing as they saw thier mother do.

So much better now that we are gone.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
Ron7127
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Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, cj, the masculinity remarks really hurt me. And, yes, the abuse is so constant, even just the baseline level of knowing it can come out of nowhere, like just playing a game of scrabble is torture.
A journeyinto a relationship with a NPD or BPD is tough. The stuff I read say these two PD's are either the same thing, essentially,or are comorbid. Seems for some societal reasons, females are labeled BPD more often than males and males NPD more often than females. But, they are the same thing, really, and on one website I visit, most of the folks dealing with a PD spouse are male. I think there are a lot of guys dealing with a disorderd wife who don't know what it is they are dealing with. Just like women dealing with the disordered H, they just know that they can do nothing right, are to blame for everything, and are bewildered as hell.
I hope we all educate ourselves as to what to lok at as warning signs for the next time. We need to look beyond the presentation during courtship as they are adept at mirroring and presenting a false self.
I overlooked, or denied manythings I saw in myXW. She had been an OW with a married man> She could not go on the mortgage as her credit was so bad. She had alienated herself from her family and was not speaking to her brother as he disapproved of her moving in with a married guy.
It was all there for me to see but I was stupid. Never again.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
bobelina
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Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe)))
I was digging thru quotes. Don't remember if this one has been posted:
------
 What is Abuse?

One of the most insidious characteristics of verbal or emotional abuse is that it can be very hard to recognise. The abuser may be very confident that he or she is behaving properly, while the person being abused may have such low self esteem that he or she perceives the abuser's behaviour as being deserved or, at any rate, nothing out of the ordinary. The longer abuse continues, the more pronounced these effects become, as the abuser's confidence grows and the victim's self esteem dwindles. This page aims to describe specific types of verbal and emotional abuse in order to make abusive behaviour easier to recognise. It also describes specific aspects of abuse that may appear in the therapy setting, and, in contrast, sets out the behaviour and conduct that a client has a right to expect from his or her therapist.

 Verbal Abuse
•
Withholding Information and not listening empathetically prevents the proper level of intimacy in the relationship from developing.
•
Countering contradicts what the other person says; the abuser refuses to accept that the victim's point of view may be valid.
•
Discounting the victim's feelings of hurt at the abuse implies that there is something wrong with the victim if he feels that way.
•
Disguising verbal abuse as a joke again invalidates the victim's perceptions.
•
Blocking and diverting allows the abuser to avoid discussing things that the victim believes are important.
•
Accusing and blaming the victim unfairly can make the victim believe that she has caused the abuse.
•
Trivializing the victim's thoughts, ideas and achievements can make the victim feel worthless.
•
Undermining of the victim by the abuser erodes the patient's self confidence.
•
Every threat made by the abuser is a form of control. The abuser plays on the victim's deepest fears.
•
Forgetting promises, agreements or previous discussions prevents the victim from talking to the abuser about his behaviour.
•
Denial is a stronger form of forgetting: the abuser denies that any abuse has ever taken place, invalidating the victim's reality and perceptions.
•
Abusive Anger allows the abuser to release tension and feel power over his victim but increases the victim's anxiety and feelings of failure.

Adapted from The Verbally Abusive Relationship
by Patricia Evans
------

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sheer nastiness of these people is beyond belief and that is just living with them on a daily basis. When an affair is thrown into the mix it is a devastating combination.
The affair hurt me like hell but it did enable me to really see what he is like. When I confronted him over it the lack of care was etched all over his face. He was only interested in how it effected him.
Sometimes I wondered if it was the affair that really hurt me or if it was the years of abuse that ruined my life. Now I realise that the affair was a symptom of the the freak's true personality. It was just another way to undermine, hurt and destroy me.
You cannot rationalise with these people or explain their actions to anyone normal. What they do to us to change us is beyond evil. What they do to their kids sould send them straight to hell.
You can never win against these people; all you can do is stop playing by their rules. Live life like you want to; not by how they have defined you and your self- image.

I'm obviously feeling wise today!!

I received a copy of my credit report yesterday. It is hideous and shocking. But not surprising! I am STILL linked to the freak and his mother!!!!!!Because he used to pass my name off as his mothers because they were similar. Obviously I changed my name asap after separating. This is one mess that will continue for years. Quite depressing.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
bobelina
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Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 12:55 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsa,
You have email.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
discombobulated
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Member # 6580
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Excellent list, BoB - I concur. Everyone should know this!


BS - age 52- married 27 years, in IC, support groups
WH - age 57 - sex addict/porn addict, NPD
Children 2 boys, 19 & 16
D-day #1 2/2/05, D-day #2: 1/22/06
R 4/21/05, but that was another lie, just a game.
D-day #3 11/06
Divorce final may 09

Posts: 2151 | Registered: Mar 2005 | From: Florida
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bob I went down your list and checked every one

The Abuse they do is so much a part of their lives that I think they pretty much abuse everyone around them in subtle ways. Truely horrible


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
woundedby2
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Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, excellent list, Bob.

Itsa--Your words are very wise. I too have the ability to look back now and see that I and my kids were abused all these years. It saddens me that I was so beaten down that I wasn't able to see it then, and that I wasn't able to protect my children from it. Yes, they should burn in hell for what they do to their children.

Group--

Can we discuss a point that Itsa brings up - one that haunts me?

You cannot...explain their actions to anyone normal.

I seriously worry that people think I'm the nutjob because the things I tell people sound so irrational. They can't believe that the man they know would ever be able to do these things ("Wow, he really seems all together whenever we see him.") Or they surely must wonder how I can now be standing there claiming abuse for years and years - but never expressing this to anyone before and never leaving him. Do they think I'm a liar - that I'm now creating this life of abuse to gain some advantage in our divorce? And some of his NPD behaviors are so bizarre that I can only tell a few people (and you guys) because I'm pretty sure that they will think I'm absolutely making it up.

I feel like this inablity to have people understand my perspective has forced me and the kids onto an island of sorts. STBXH has painted me black, and my stories actually make me look like the nutjob that he is painting me to be. So now I don't discuss the NPD with any of the "friends" that I would like to keep, but I now sadly realize that they either were never true friends or will never be true friends to me. I wish it didn't matter to me, but it does.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
dreamlife
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Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Count me in here as well.

I just tell people (who might need to know) that he has numerous personality disorders and is bipolar.
Everything my IC has said.

No, "normal" people could not possibly comprehend unless they also have lived with this deviance!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
OutFromUnder
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Member # 19061
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bob, your list is perfect. I also checked every item on the list. I believe it took me so long to recognize those things as abuse because the abuse wasn't physical and he didn't have the extreme rages my NPD mother and father had.

After growing up experiencing NPD rages and physical abuse, my NPD husband seemed laid back to me. However, all of those items he did on that list drove me insane and hurt like hell. And as has been pointed out, you cannot explain it to people who haven't experienced it. The things I have to tell sound petty to them or they just don't get it.

It really helps to have that list. Thanks!


Posts: 79 | Registered: Apr 2008
cjonesjag
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Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can we discuss a point that Itsa brings up - one that haunts me?

woundedby2...sometimes you just can't explain it to others, and if you actually try to, you end up sounding crazy yourself !!

When I first starting discovering that WTFH wasn't all that wonderfuckingful, I couldn't compose the words in order to explain it to anyone. Its just a whole bunch of "huh?"'s that add up to the fact that you're living with a really sick puppy.

I didn't tell anyone for the first year after DDAY#1. A WHOLE YEAR... Some of it was shame ~ that I had tolerated such obviously crappy treatment. Some of it was just plain *ego* ~ I was SO UNSPESHUL that my WTFH cheated, lied, deceived, and betrayed me. He DIDN'T *love me* and everyone would know it. He WASN'T my partner, my rock, my anything! And everyone would know that I made a piss-pour choice.

Once I started letting 'little things' out here and there, it became easier. Once I started IC, it got REAL easy to admit to myself, but still difficult to talk about with others. I still don't feel the need to explain my life to anyone, and realize that ALL of this would sound like an outtake from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Luckily (?) for me, my WTFH has been so OBVIOUSLY abusive to me (arrest for DV, financial tsunami, serious anger-management issues), that most people just fear for my safety. And I must admit, that there are times when I have that fear for myself.

I really don't feel that I can or want to explain this to anyone, other than people here SI that understand the crazy-making or my IC. My daughter KNOWS how nuts he is ~ she has witnessed it first hand. My mom is the most supportive person on the planet, but I dare NOT tell her the whole story ~ she would gouge his eyes out with a spoon.

< hmmm...maybe I should tell mom... >

There is a point in time when you absolutely KNOW that it isn't *you* ~ its *them*. They aren't going to get better, they aren't going to get help, and they are going to blame you for everything, forever. You cannot explain it to regular people IRL.

If I were to try and explain the "silent treatment" that I was subjected to, most people would have difficulty believing that it would go on for WEEKS...I mean WEEKS AND WEEKS.. If I was in a room, he wouldn't enter. I was not spoken to, looked at or acknowledged in any way. EVERY SINGLE DAY, for literally WEEKS (probably MONTHS, at times). And it hurt like hell when I actually *cared* that he didn't care about me.

I don't give a shit now, and it actually makes life a little easier for me. Its boring, but I am working on disentangling the last few details....anyway.

When my IC first started referring to his behavior as 'abusive,' it completely caught me off guard. I rarely acknowledged it, and found myself *explaining* his behavior ! LOL !! How could I possibly explain it as anything other than flat out abusive?

I couldn't. And I won't.

I have no desire to talk about him with any of my real-life friends ~ I realize it would be FAR too difficult for them to understand. They have normal marriages.

I'm at the point where if I feel the need to say anything at all, its "I can't WAIT to get out of this prison." I could send out copies of the police reports, arrest for domestic violence, the bank records where he spends every dime he GETS on himself, or remind everyone that he has SEVEN children who do not speak to him.. Nothing *by itself* is notable, but when you add it all up, and it goes on day after day....its crazy.

For a man who's never done ANYTHING WRONG in his entire life, my WTFH is sure reaping some seriously negative karma in his life right now...while mine seems to be ever-improving. Too bad, so sad.

woundedby2..your explanation for his behavior is best left to "he's nuts and I didn't like his girlfriend." Trying to explain will result in a ride on the hamster wheel.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
bobelina
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Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((CJ)))
My mom is the most supportive person on the planet, but I dare NOT tell her the whole story ~ she would gouge his eyes out with a spoon.
Kewl !!!

Trying to explain will result in a ride on the hamster wheel.
Ain't that the truth.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
Ron7127
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Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I would realte incidents, like the repeated cold water dousings, or the "my husband has no penis" scrabble comment, some folks would ask if she was just trying to be funny(others, my guy friends were aghast that my wife would say that.)
I could tell stories that are so weird. stories where my wife would deny saying things or agreeing to things and go ballistic when I acted in reliance on these agreemants.
What people do not get is that, in isolation, some of these events may not seem that bad. I mean ,I was not physically hurt by being doused. Or, maybe my wife was just using poor judgement or not really thinking when she would say the emasculating stuff.
But these incidents are set against a backdrop of the aforementioned ambient abuse. This stuff iscumulative. The contempt and total disregard for my feelings was omnipresent. These more egregious incidents are just punctuation marks.And, there are many, many egregious incidents. So many that I think I would lose credibility if I started itemizing each one. Folks would think i was exagerating.
And, as I get farther out, I can remember more and more of them.
I must have just suppressed a lot of them> Bottom line, I n longer feel the need to deatil all the stuff.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
woundedby2
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Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The tough part that I am dealing with - and feeling the need to justify to people - is mainly in regard to what they perceive as an unwillingness on my part to co-parent with STBXH. They have been told that I am turning the kids against him. That I am ureasonable, etc. One neighbor who plays poker regularly with STBXH, sent me an email recently where she described a "friend of hers" who had a hard time sharing custody 50/50 with her X, but she realizes now how much the kids need a relationship with their father. Well, her X is probably not a whack as mine, or she'd still have a problem with it.

When I speak of past abuse, or of the visit by CPS, or the day I had to call the police to get him to leave the house, I get the raised eyebrows look. So, I've pretty much stopped trying to justify "my actions". My IC says that I have done nothing that I need to defend, but yet...

I guess it's the self-doubt that he instilled in me all those years.

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 11:03 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
SCORNED
Member
Member # 6301
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sam Vakin (sp) talks about it in his book....

NPD's are VERY good at making people think WE are the crazy ones !

They drive you to the brink of madness , so you are the one that is all frazzled and blubbering trying to explain to people what your spouse is REALLY all about ...
when all they see in your spouse (cause thats all your spouse LETS them see) is some GREAT GUY/GAL .....
NPD's are the utimate CON ARTISTS ....some of them soooooooo good , they fool even therapists .

My H used to drive me crazy ....I read the books ....learned how to throw the NPD personality "off balance" ...
let me tell ya , it worked ! When he was really bad , I was a brick wall that he was dismantling brick by brick .......once I knew more about the behaviour I began to rebuild my WALL ....and my H couldn't fuck with my bricks anymore.

Since we have R , we have spoken about his many NPD traits ( he's not full blown) ....when I see them rearing their ugly head again , I point it out , so HE can recognize when he's doing it ....
The improvement is HUGE HUGE HUGE !!
I do believe some people will never change , and I thought my H was one of them ......he has proven me wrong.

Don't get me wrong ...we still have our days ....ups and downs .....but nothing like it used to be.

(((((((((((((HUGS TO ALL))))))))))

PS.... Ron ,

your EXW is a real bitch !!!!


"The cruelest lies are often told in silence."

Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 12165 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: southwest
Ron7127
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Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 12:26 AM, May 15th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes , Scorned, she is really messed up.
Here are a few of the things she did besides the cold water and comments.
I have 2 boys from a previous marriage. I raised tem alone for a long time as my first wife started drinking and having affairs after our son was born severely disbled. He has Down Syndrome(which is not bad) and autism(which is a killer).
I took him to so many therapies and enrolled him in the best program I could find in our area. He improved a lot but is still, essentially, like a 2-3 year old.
My second wife wouldoften say" I don't mean to be mean, but I wonder if Henry would be hugher functioning if he had been raised better."
Our little girls wanted a dog. So did I butmy Ww dislikes animals(big surprise). Nevertheless, forsome strange reason, she suggested to the kids and me that we might bring the golf course dog home for the weekend. The girls loved this dog as we would go each Friday to the course where i worked part time, and play with her, taking her into the woods for trail walks. The girls were ecstatic with this idea. They talked about it all week.
Friday comes and we head out to get the dog for the weekend. I got the okay from the greenskeeper.
We brought Nan home and the kids were having a blast with her in the backyard.
My wife arrived home from shopping(meeting her affair partner) and went ballistic. "What is that dog doing here?" Get it out.
The girls started sobbing. They were so confused. We took the dog back with them crying all the way. It was nuts.
My other son, Michael, was scheduled to see his grandparents over Spring Break in AZ. It was our weekend to have my boys> She refused to have Henry sta at our house because "it's not fair that Michael goes and Henry does not." Henry is disbled. He is very afraid to fly. The grandparents are close to 90. How could Henry go? This had no impact on us but she tried to prevent it.Why?

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