A agree with the others that suicide is a manipulation ploy. I also suspect that he is more upset because he has been caught, not because he has hurt you and the kids. Also, not giving a direct answer (regret vs remorse) and directing the conversation back to "poor me I think I'll just commit suicide" is a big red flag.
If you have a conversation about boundaries and he responds in a loving and understanding manner, he is likely not NPD. If you tell a NON-npd who wants to make things work, he will do WHAT EVER HE NEEDS TO DO to make it work. An NPD will flip out, throw a huge fit, insist on having things his own way, and if you become more firm about your boundaries he may even threaten violent. I would suggest if things start down this road, end the face to face by pacifying him somehow and see the lawyer. You can go NC with him later without having a face to face.
Let us know how it goes. Good luck.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 11:17 AM, December 26th (Friday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
His reaction...sharp intake of breath. Almost tears but not quite. Wouldn't look at me, very quiet. His hands were shaking. But I gotta say, I didn't buy any of it.
He agreed to just go to a lawyer together to get an agreement ironed out - we have one that I've written and he approved already so if he doesn't change his mind on everything, then it shouldn't take long.
I brought up boundaries and he said very little. He said "just send me an email with how you'd like things to be and I'll follow that".
Came to pick up the kids a 1/2 hour ago - wouldn't look at me but was fine with the business of the kids.
He's done this before, hang dog expression, don't worry, we'll do it your way and then sets about trying to change things slowly over time. I think only time will tell if he is really hearing that I am done.
If he didn't flip out and become angry, think he's not NPD? So, all around a crappy day. But I feel at peace that this was the right thing for me. But kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop, ya know?
You have to remember that NPD's are good at trying to hide their true selves. This could be another one of those tricks.
Keep your guard up. He's being too nice. He's up to something.
It is what it is.
If you do not feel you need more time to heal before being comfortable with getting into another relationship, you are either fooling yourself and desperately seeking something, you have not yet gotten far enough into the process to feel the wounds, or your spouse may not fit as NPD.
[This message edited by WantingtheTruth at 8:49 PM, December 26th (Friday)]
These people are masters at hiding their real selves from others. There are definite degrees to which they suffer and likely some situations are far worse than others. Considering they fool even the professionals it is not surprising they fool us as well. Somepeople are toxic and not good to be around. In the end that is the evaluation that needs to be made. Is this person good for me to be in a relationship with?
I know that my ex is remarried and seems to be doing ok from th outside. Who knows, maybe he has met someone who is good for him and they can work around eachothers faults (I doubt it but who knows). more power to them Glad it's not me.
The best thing I did in all this was to work on me. I am a better person for it. I am far happier alone than I ever was with my ex.
Definitally get an agreement nail down ASAP. Once they realize that you are done with them then they usually turn, even the ones that are not totally crazy. They start wanting to have everything they can grab to fund their new life even if it harms their children. Cheaters tend to be selfish unless they see their faults and change. Boudaries are something everyone should practice regardless of what the state of the relationship is.
Hope everyone had a good holiday. Mine was not bad. Heck the kids came back in a decent mood from their father's and nothing bad appeared to happen. (breathing a sign of relief) The worst of it is over now.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
Tracy - sounds like yours is quite a good actor! Mine was the same. Act 1 Scene 3 required the sharp intake of breath, the mournful expression etc etc. Act 3 Scene 5 required him to accuse me of mental cruelty and take the kids home from them. You may just be getting what he thinks you expect from this part of the script.
The kids went to the ex yesterday. DD refuses to spend the night ever. They went at two, I had the phone call at three thirty from DD saying she wanted to come home! I collected her. The freak was furious with her as he was taking them to his family so it is "embarrassing" for him to explain his daughter's absence. Just deserts I say, as it is two years to the day I had to tell the kids that daddy wasn't coming home. How can he expect her to comply with his wishes when he is such an egocentric, arrogant pos!! Guess he will punish her by ignoring her birthday next week!! Loser!!
After he picked them up, I went out to Walmart for a while. Didn't really need anything, just felt like I should GO OUT since I didn't have the kids (LOL, big night out...Walmart). He texted me while I was there asking for the "boundaries". I told him I had to think about it and I'd rather get back to him tomorrow. I assume he was just checking on me to see if I was with my friend.
I'm not really sure what boundaries to lay out. I guess we can start with doing your scheduled child visitations, knocking on the door, not coming to the house unexpected and letting me have a good 6 months of no contact other than business of the kids so I can get used to this arrangement and see if he can follow those boundaries before loosening anything up.
I just started reading, and am quite taken by the author's insights. She is spot on.
For one example, a few pages ago, we had been batting around the idea of what empathy is/is not, etc...
and I found her blog comments to be especially relevant on the issue.
Linking to another's comment:
They know just how to make everyone think that theyíre delightful. Narcissistic mothers...
(the particular focus of her blog, but still - highly related to our sitch's)
... are exceptional manipulators, and manipulators must be extremely aware, on a moment-by-moment basis, of the emotions of their targets. If you donít know what people are feeling, you canít push their buttons. Their exceptional sensitivity to the feelings of others is also the wellspring of their pleasure in inflicting emotional pain through dramas and no-win scenarios.
Gotta love it.
Tracy, if you need to communicate in a more "private" manner, let us know. There are way to do that where he won't know.
You're so predictable.
As for boundaries there are some good books out there that address that topic very well and are worth reading. Your local library probably has a few of them. The trick to boundaries in consistency and that part takes practice.
I am not convinved that these people could really see their actions even if someone took the time to show them how completely defective they are. They are convinced that everyone in the world is like this and they need to stab you in the back before you stab them.
I know the one thing that helped me know that I was making the right decision about the married was that the more time I spent away from my ex the better I felt about myself and my life. It was as if the black cloud walked out the door with him. It doesn't mean it has not been a hard road because the kids and I are still trying to heal the years of damage.
You will be ok whatever happens.
Each day I feel a little more at peace and a little more normal. It is gradual but even in the short time I have been trying complete NC I can see a difference in myself. I have even seen a change in the kids.
To update you all,
I did move away, to another province. I did move in with friends, that turned out badly :(.
I dealt with EX NPD being a stalker, went to court for the sexual assault charges, they didn't stick, he has a current outstanding charge of contacting me outside of the NC order and surprise surprise, he figures he is above it (doesn't he always). Last I has to stay away from me for a further year and if he does as he is told the charges will be stayed. He had spent time in jail for about 60 charges of breaching of the NC, got beat up in jail, blamed me for the entire thing, no worries I know he is the one who broke the charges not me.
(thank goodness for my therapist that I have seen out here)
I have had to have contact him as I have not had the financial means to survive on my own as I had hoped.
I did apply for government help, which was a mere pennance, so i opted to register into college, school has been going well, until the government decided that I am not allowed to have support while I am in school 4 hours a day, apparently they consider that full time! So I get a part time job in a grocery store, at first the hours weren't bad about 20 hours a week, checks are weekly, was doing "ok". Well that all changed FAST, now I am getting about 4 to 8 hours a week!! I have asked for shifts 3 times in notes to my supervisor, but she says that she will do what she can, but that it is based on seniority and they work on down from that
Meanwhile ASSHAT is living high off the hog, is away on vacation, buying super expensive tv's etc. etc. meanwhile I am barely making it, never sure how I am going to get my rent, let alone cover any bills.
I have had nothing but constant trouble since I moved away from him. Makes a person wonder if I should have just shut up and stayed where I was???
As of late last night, my landlord advised me that I have to be out Feb. 1/09 as he and his fiance are moving and the owner of the house apparently has other plans for the house we live in. I am just fed up, when is it my turn for something non drama filled???
My course in College runs til June of 09 and I all I want to do is finish college, get a job as a mental health worker, and with any luck start to give back what has been given to me. But to be honest at the rate things are going, I may have to quit college and either consider moving back from where I lived, or try to find 2 more jobs, just to somehow survive. But that would mean giving up on college, and of course let's not forget about finding a place to live, that allows me to have my dogs and cats.
DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA make it stop someone!!
I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with all of this -- at the same time!! Be strong. You will get through it.
Feel free to PM me also.
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
Can you appeal for more support until you finish school? Maybe the college has bursaries they can get you based on finacial need. Sometimes they have those available to help students finish. Can't hurt to ask.
Is this narcissistic behavior? Even if it isn't, it drives me crazy!!!