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User Topic: R'ing with an addict
heartlikeawheel
♀ New Member
Member # 36955
Default  Posted: 5:26 AM, September 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i am sorry if I scared people. my gratitude to 12 step outweighs my hatred of female addicts. But how do I reconcile this conflict within myself?
And whilst two of my best FFs are recovering alcoholics, I recognise that my hatred of female addicts/alcoholics -and particularly someone who set herself up as a respected SA counsellor aged approaching 50, whilst going to clubs picking up whoever, and Fing married men - doing bigtime EA as well is HUGE.


I hope to know myself
others I can only love
but look for the FACTS

Posts: 21 | Registered: Sep 2012
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, September 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is all a matter of boundaries. For me the steps and the fellowship are essential. But I need to set boundaries while I am there.

I do not hug women (that is how we typically greet each other)

I try not to talk to women (if I do it is public and only recover based, not personal)

I do not exchange phone numbers with women.

I stick with men!!!
I stick with people who live recovery!!!


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2406 | Registered: Aug 2012
heartlikeawheel
♀ New Member
Member # 36955
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, September 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chico when I first went into 12 step recovery (looking to fix him!) the hugs were great. When he followed, into his own recovery, I let him go, so to speak. even though it seemed like the fellowship was his new drug. he didnt have a job we had 2 kids i was at uni tryinbg to make a new life/work nand if i wanted to go to MY group I had to find babysitters (his recovery so much more important than mine - life and death and so on. mLater, he had lots of FF and worked in the field and I had to keep swallowing my jealous feelings/ any suspicions because, well, that would be codependency! Now, I think that all the


I hope to know myself
others I can only love
but look for the FACTS

Posts: 21 | Registered: Sep 2012
heartlikeawheel
♀ New Member
Member # 36955
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, September 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

intimate sharing that goes on amongst addicts is DANGEROUS. it leaves the family out of the picture and that that is where intimacy should stay.


I hope to know myself
others I can only love
but look for the FACTS

Posts: 21 | Registered: Sep 2012
heartlikeawheel
♀ New Member
Member # 36955
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, September 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the hugs too


I hope to know myself
others I can only love
but look for the FACTS

Posts: 21 | Registered: Sep 2012
heartlikeawheel
♀ New Member
Member # 36955
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, September 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it is a problem with female addicts - mostly they give out available signals - look at for example, how the majority of them dress as compared to age peer groups in the general community. Then they talk about how they 's*cked this and f*ed that' for a fix or because they were 'so out of it'
I started, 6 years ago on DDay, by feeling sorry for all the abuse they had suffered and tryying to understand how the As could happen and what I couldve done to ensure they didnt happen. but I am tired now of trying to think of reasons for nasty, selfish, greedy, me, me, me behaviours. And what it has done to my life whilst they probably don't give it a second's thought. From letting go of thoughts of revenge, 6 years ago, my WH's actions and this new discovery have sent me all the way back there. And yet, I know it is his addiction that led him to betray me. She could have been any available old tart. The trouble is, there are so many of them available at addicts groups.
If I could start over, I would still go for 12 step for recovery,as it is life and death but I would not trust my WH until he really earned that trust, rather than be fearful he might use again. My life is now in jeopardy, in more ways than one. cant imagine this isnt making me physically ill.


I hope to know myself
others I can only love
but look for the FACTS

Posts: 21 | Registered: Sep 2012
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 1:05 AM, October 13th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWS just moved back into the house after a 8 month separation. I thought everything was going well...until Wednesday when I discovered some inconsistancies in his work hours.

After much texting back and forth - he called me an told me he had been using drugs from the hospital he works at. A serious opiate. And that he started after dday #3 when he was sure we were divorcing.

I am overwhelmed. I don't know what to do. He went to one of his counselors (he has two - one psychiatrist and a LCSW) and admitted to his addiction (although he hesistant and minimizes this aspect - of course). The counselor called me to let me know that he told him. He has come up with no program as of yet. He can't go into a program because he has no time off work and they would find out and he would lose his license and we would ALL be up shits creek.

He has be off the substance since Wednesday morning (if he is telling the truth) and took off work Thursday and Friday. He is now on a boy scout weekend with our son - camping.

When I read about this addiction - it is super serious. And when he goes back to work - he is constantly exposed to the substance that he used. This is so hopeless.

He tells me that he WILL take care of it. That this will NOT be a problem. But isn't that what an addict would say?

I am having a hard time recognizing the man - if you know what I mean. Maybe he's just been talking bullshit to me for years and I just believe it.

He just trades one high for another - affair high - drug high.

OMG - someone please help me.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 3:20 AM, October 13th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Roccodom)))

Minimizing, justifying, and rationalizing are addict (as well as wayward) behaviors.
They are very much the same. Moving from one "high" to the next.
My fWS moved in the opposite direction. All of her PA happened after a drug relapse, when she knew she couldnt keep using drugs but wanted something to help her to forget about the guilt and shame of the relapse.
It is good that he opened up to the councilor. That is a start. There is not a whole lot you can do besides being supportive and encouraging to continue to seek help. There are plenty of people that I know who are in recovery that work in the health field. Their stories are similar in that they helped themselves to medications at work. They have continued to work in the field and have many years "clean". Some of their employers even know and are supportive. It takes hard work, meetings, a sponsor, and 12 step work. All of that work on addiction will also help with fidelity. They both have the same root causes.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2406 | Registered: Aug 2012
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, October 13th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chico - thank you for your response.

He now has to tell his psychiatrist Friday - which will also be helpful.

I am tired. I do not want to look for signs - wonder when he's gonna get caught - etc. I just personally am tired from the As to this of spending my time monitoring someone else. It is not good for me.

It is good to hear that there are health professionals that have been able to remain working and be sober.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, October 13th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And he met them through this.

I think it is a problem with female addicts - mostly they give out available signals

I've had the same problem with my H. I'm trying to figure out how his pattern works.

He has spent so much time in 'the system' - mental illness AND addiction - so many years, that it is not simply a tool for him to overcome his issues anymore. It is not simply a network. It is now a social scene. He has met many of his exes through the program/system, and he has been inappropriate with many women within the program as well, including the counselors.

I think, everyone is at a different stage in recovery. And not everyone enters the system thinking they need to recover. So it does become a social scene to some people. Like you said, sending out available vibes. A lot of people in the system don't have solid boundaries (to out myself - that's how H and I met; we were in the same mental health program. It was my first time in such a program, and I felt so *safe* around him...). They lose sight - and I was guilty of this too - of the reason they are there, and instead respond to the positive mirroring they receive from someone else in there. "Oh, I've been through the same thing!" That can be great to feel supported, but then take it a step further, cross the line into improper fantasy and behavior, and the focus becomes on the sexual tension instead of on recovery. Not using the system correctly at all.

My H tests boundaries. He is easily able to sense who has the weakest boundaries, and he sends out his own signals easily as well. He doesn't tell them stop. He jokes, flirts, smiles, opens up, talks about inappropriate topics, listens. After being around them so much, he knows their patterns. I'm sure a large part of it is, he knows many of them, as addicts, struggle with loneliness. Mental illness is isolating, and addiction is part of mental illness. So it's very easy to send out available signals if you're promising companionship upfront.

No, recovery is not always a safe place for a person in a committed relationship, especially if they have poor boundaries and aren't taking the program seriously. But that's on them.

Anyway, I can relate.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 11:55 AM, October 13th (Saturday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, December 31st (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been meaning to write this post for a while. I am feeling the need to help someone today.

There are two very significant differences between Reconciliation we hear about here and Recovery from addiction.

The First One is the search for WHYs.
In Reconciliation we are told that the search for whys is one of the most important thing that WS have to do. Whether those whys are FOO issues, attention seeking, abuse, low self esteem, or whatever, Reconciliation requires that they be found and addressed.

Addiction Recovery says the why is the addiction itself. There is not a need to search for deeper whys. It is what it is. The addiction has always been there and always will be. The focus is put on changing the behaviors by building boundries and borders on the negative behaviors and replacing them with positive ones.

I tend to agree with the Recovery angle on this one. It is a live your way into a better way of thinking, instead of a think your way into a better way of living solution. Just my two cents.


The Second One has to do with Amends.

The Recovery view on making amends is to make direct amends to someone except if that amends could cause more harm. I think a lot of Recovering Addicts use this as a cop-out to not be entirely honest. The main part of the amends is changing the behavior that caused the harm so that the harm is never caused again. It is the most important part and many view that to be enough. But through personal experience with infidelity that holding secrets and not being entirely honest continues the harm all by itself even if the WS is never unfaithful again. On this one I agree with the Reconciliation approach that complete Honesty and Transparency in needed. Again my two cents.

I hope this insight helps someone who is R'ing with an addict.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2406 | Registered: Aug 2012
RockyMtn
♀ Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, I'm searching ICR forums for the obvious - things I can relate to!

I'm not sure I'm Ring with an addict. Just not Ring right now. But even if we don't R, I have an addict as a co-parent, so he will always be in my life.

WH is addicted to alcohol and prescription drugs. Alcohol is probably his drug of choice, though, and his addiction that I currently know more about since it is longer-standing.

I just attended my first Al Anon meeting and it was perfection. WH is in IC and starting AA this week in terms of meetings, although he has been participating in a sober recovery forum and reading the AA materials. Sober 3 weeks or so. It is really interesting for me - I have assigned no positive or negative to these actions on his part. I feel a sense of detachment from him and his disease in a way I've never felt before. I'm really taking that as a positive and trying to maintain it as time goes on. Right now, I think the detachment from his recovery process comes from the infidelity, i.e. I feel so violated by that so I can't even care right now about his sobriety. When some of that violation wears off, or turns to anger or sadness, I have to be careful about enmeshing myself in his disease.

Anyway, I'll be hanging around here now, even if I don't R. Hope that's OK.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, all this time I have never seen this thread. I am R'ing with an addict. He has been addicted to work, narcotics, and now sex. It is a special kind of hell to keep popping from one addiction to the next. It is the addict thinking that is a huge problem.

Anyway, hope to start to share more on this thread if it can become active. From what I see on JFO, there are quite a few addicts around.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sorry you are here but Welcome.

(((RM)))

I feel a sense of detachment from him and his disease in a way I've never felt before.

You didnt cause it and you cant fix it. It is his cross to bear.

(((MM)))

It is a special kind of hell to keep popping from one addiction to the next. It is the addict thinking that is a huge problem.

It is a double edged sword. It effects so many areas of our lives that it is so overwhelming. But at the same time that one problem has one solution. There is hope if the work is done.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2406 | Registered: Aug 2012
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that there is hope if the work is done. The issue is that it hasn't been. It really is at the beginning stages, again, with my SAWH. He went to rehab in 2008 and just didn't stay with 12 steps and therapy, he just white knuckled it and we all know how that goes. I stayed out of his recovery, it was his issue and then he switched addictions. The relapse rate for addicts is scary but I know that as long as my SAWH is in all of the programs, therapy and groups he currently is, that recovery is possible.

One day at a time! Working on making sure that my life and my kids life will be ok, even if my SAWH does relapse.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My fWS has been going to meetings since 2005 with no real step work. With regular relapses and A's and all sorts of other destructive behavior. It has been a long discouraging road. Getting caught this time in the A (11/2011) seems like her bottom. She has finally doing the work, real pen and paper work. We are both seeing the growth because of it. I hope your H gets it too.

Working on making sure that my life and my kids life will be ok

that and being supportive to your H are all you can do.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2406 | Registered: Aug 2012
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that and being supportive to your H are all you can do.

That is not where we are at in our process. He needs to accomplish some specific things and make it a little further on his own, since avoidance and manipulation are part of his addict thinking. His IC, group, 12 step meetings, sponsor, etc. are there to support him. I have the same to support me. Of course, I have SI too!


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes that is the very support they need.

In 1997, I called my mother from jail 5 hours from home asking for bail money for the umteenth time.

She said, "ROT THERE" and hung up the phone. That was the most loving thing that she ever did for me.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2406 | Registered: Aug 2012
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, February 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Absolutely. One of my best friends has been in AA recovery for 25 years. She was kind of blown away about the kind of work that SAs have to do, as some of the stuff is not encouraged in AA. It does seem that for all around addicts, it is the program that finally gets them truly sober.

Ok. Off the computer for the rest of the day. Lots of things to do.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
RockyMtn
♀ Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Missymomma, I hear you on the fact that I can't be supportive right now. But I also hear what chicho is saying about the fact that support CAN be about leaving the addict to his or her own devices. In al anon, the message to those of us living with or affected by an alcoholic is to be compassionate, a good listener, and so on. To understand it as a disease and to offer the same care we would offer a person with cancer. Ugh. The infidelity complicates that so much for me. His violation of me and my body is far worse than living with someone who has cancer. But I also understand the principle and for other al anon members, their bodies and lives have been violated by the disease as well (physical abuse, financial ruin, etc).

I'm just taking it day by day, so I don't have much to say about this "compassion for the addict" thing except that I get it, and sometimes feel it, but I also feel like I'm disrespecting myself in the process when I offer it, or lowering my boundaries.

Anyway, I do realize that I'm supporting my WH in three ways:
1) allowing him the time to go to meetings by caring for the kids and home.
2) using joint marital funds for his IC
3) when he wants to talk, I listen. I try not to enmesh myself, giv advice, pat him on the back, etc. (toxic pattern in our marriage). But I listen.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
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