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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just stopping in to wish everyone a Happy 4th of July!!

Hope everyone has a GREAT weekend.


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

June is over.

You not only made it, Lost, but you came out of it closer to your H than ever. Would you have ever thunk it?

It seems like a huge win for all of you.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbroken,

Hope that full plate is not wearing you down too much. Sending you some tribal strength to help you through.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Things are pretty good with H and me...didn't think I would ever say that 1 year ago! He just seems to have had some switch turned in him, and has been staying helpful and affectionate and generally caring to us. I am loving it! Scared, but loving it.

I'm so thrilled to see you write that Lost Heart!!!

Thanks for all the hugs. We have been in MC since dday (or when the shit hit the fan as we say around here). We do a group session with his IC and my IC. They asked about it once and of course, at that time, things were going well. I think we had actually had sex the night before. I haven't had the nerve to bring it up (I really don't want to talk about it with just him let alone both of them). Plus I think we have worked on so many other issues that it just doesn't get brought up unless I was to bring it up.

OK, I am bracing myself for the 2 X 4s. I know, I need to bring it up. I think we are finally getting to the point where everything else is working itself out, so it's going to be one of the last things and inevitable. Now that I think, I did talk about this with my IC alone, so she knows. I suspect he is waiting to get some other issues resolved. I don't know.

It's hard enough (for me) for other people like our MC to know that he wanted someone else more than me for several years. But then to admit that even now, when he has no one on the side, he doesn't seem to want me. The humiliation of it all just freezes me up. I can't seem to discuss it.

BT, you said you had been in this spot. Can you tell me how it resolved or why it happened? I think my fear is the answer he might give. I'm too fat, not pretty enough, he's not attracted to me, I repulse him. My mind could go on and on. I am so scared of that answer.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT,

You not only made it, Lost, but you came out of it closer to your H than ever. Would you have ever thunk it?

Not me.
I sent him a sms this morning saying "I like the way things have been with us recently. And a large part is due to you."
He said he really appreciated that.

Thanks BT...for helping me keep the faith.And more.

***

((((SoLost))))

The humiliation of it all just freezes me up. I can't seem to discuss it.

SoL, I dont know much about sexual dysfunctional issues, but I seriously doubt it had anything to do with you. I remember doing a course on this at uni, and the problem is almost always with the person, unless you are a dead ringer for his mom...tho' thats still his issue.
Just thowing out thoughts here:
Re sex with OW..do you know enough about what they did? Was he able to perform normally? Did she instigate? DId he need her to do something out of the ordinary to get it on? What are his thoughts on this issue?
HE said that he needs you to initiate more? What does that mean to him? Does he feel guilty/bad/ashamed if he does that? Is he afraid of rejection?


I can only imagine how you feel, SoL.

Do you think discussing a strategy with your IC first, might help?

Last question
What other issues does he feel are more impt at this stage? Are they related?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoLost,

Our sex life started to die almost as soon as we got engaged. Looking back on it now, it seems so clear. But then we were so wrapped up with wedding plans and starting careers that it didn't really register at the time. By the time it did with me, he was already in the affair.

I did a lot of things to try to resurrect our sex life, lost weight, bought sexy lingerie, toys, even looked at porn a bit (really made me laugh). But nothing helped. I made demands, cried, and we talked long and hard about it, and nothing had any effect at all.

For my H, it was unquestionably an intimacy issue. He told me after we had been in MC for a while that he would sometimes lay in bed at night after I was asleep and wonder why he couldn't reach out to me or reach back when I reached for him (both emotionally and physically.) He said he wanted to, but something held him back.

It started to change about two years before he confessed to the affair, at a time when I had become so tired of his distancing behavior that I worked to detach myself from him and the marriage as a prelude to leaving. When he felt me pulling away and knew it was not just my usual upset, but something more serious and lasting, he pushed himself to change.

Ironically, when he began reaching for me, our marriage got better than it had ever been. We became so close that he could no longer stand the huge lie that stood between us, and he confessed to the affair.

While that blew our closeness for a long while, it never changed his level of desire. And frankly, during the many long drought years, nothing then seemed to change his desire level either. My weight changed dramatically several times and neither losing nor gaining changed our dynamic at all.

What did was him changing, and moving past his fears. It may be different for your H. If you had a good sex life for many years and it is now gone then perhaps it is a residual effect of the affair, or a weight issue if your H is a man to whom physical attractiveness is very important.

Whatever the issue is it can be dealt with if you have a good MC who will facilitate openness and negotiation. Take the plunge and bring it up. I wasted a lot of years just being resentful about it rather than working for positive change. Be smarter than that.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Advice or 2x4s please.....

I am going absolutely batshit crazy lately thinking about the OW of the 2 LTAs. Neither of them was caught or confessed. Neither husband has a clue. All I read in JFO and General is that the BS MUST BE TOLD. I haven't contacted them primarily because the As were from so long ago (15 years ago and 7 years ago). But lately, I want to expose these whores for who they are. Yes, it is a desire for revenge. But, I was raised that there is a right and a wrong and, if you do something wrong, there is a punishment or a penalty. These freaking cheaters and liers are just cruising through life with no consequences to their choices and behavior.

Should I contact their Hs via letter and let them know the ancient history? Do you think they deserve to know who they are really married to?

ed: 'cuz I can't type when I am raging.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 1:29 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Should I contact their Hs via letter and let them know the ancient history? Do you think they deserve to know who they are really married to?

Hi Shirley.

YEs, I do think so. I think that by keeping this info away from them,would be tantamount to colluding with the OW in keeping her secrets.

I would tell, Shirley. Bearing in mind of course the posssible negative consequences, which I am sure you already know (opening the door to OW; finding out more painful info; putting more strain on your M, etc).

Incidentally, can I ask what triggered this? Are you back home yet?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

I got to that point, too, and my answer was no.

In my case, the BS was someone who had tried to harm my family by suing us over a business dispute, so I had no motivation to help him in any way.

Also, he snuck up behind my husband in an alley and hit him over the head and then kicked him in the face when he fell (broke his nose). That was when he saw my husband touch the OW. If he had known about the affair, no telling what he would have done.

Even with that, though, I do feel a twinge of guilt now and then for not telling him. And as for her, I think just being her is enough of a life sentence for anyone.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Lost.

I am not sure what triggered it but I think it is a rather large roadblock in my healing that I keep thinking about them and their deceit.

At first, I didn't contact the BHs because 1) I was afraid of word getting out about what my H did and 2) all of the other unintended consequences both personal and professional for my H and for my family.

But now, I guess I have just lived with my situation for so long that I don't feel those fears as much. Meanwhile, the anger in me over their deceit keeps building.

I have no fears about the As restarting. None whatsoever. But, if they did, this process has made me strong enough to just walk away and be the woman that I am.

Does that make sense?

ETA: BT -

"Also, he snuck up behind my husband in an alley and hit him over the head and then kicked him in the face when he fell (broke his nose). That was when he saw my husband touch the OW. If he had known about the affair, no telling what he would have done."

HOLY SHIT....nope wouldn't have told him either!!!

but I do not believe we are at the same risk. Why would I not tell?

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 1:44 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does that make sense?

Yes, it does, Shirley.

***

And as for her, I think just being her is enough of a life sentence for anyone.

Good one, BT!

I remember the time when I was saying what a jackass OWH was being, and you said something like, "They certainly deserve each other.", and that actually made me giggle inbetween my tears.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

I don't think it will buy you any happiness or healing to tell. I think what you want is revenge, and I understand that completely (I am half Italian and half Scots, so revenge should be a way of life for me.) But in the few cases where I have gone out and got revenge on someone, the momentary happiness that it brought me was short-lived and soon morphed into feeling shameful for having hurt someone else.

I think the only reason to do it is if you think it will help the BSes.

Given that they were LTAs, I probably would tell. That shows issues so deep that I think the BS does have a right to know.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

half Italian and half Scots, so revenge should be a way of life for me

Remind me not to piss you off

I know it is more for me than for the BSs but I can't help thinking that they should know WHAT they are married to.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Remind me not to piss you off

I cant imagine BT being mad.I think I am scared.

Shirley,sounds like a good enough reason to me.

Off to get the kiddos to sleep. WIsh I could hang out longer. Busy looking for a Disneyland Paris deal. The kids are SO excited.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Lost. For most of my life I had a fairly wicked temper. Not nice at all.

I carried a lot of anger around for a long, long time. It's a much nicer trip without it.

Shirley, are you on your way to tell the BSes?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, are you on your way to tell the BSes?

Not yet. I will first write the what I want to say. I will put it away and review it. I will then go through it with H and MC. Then, I will not meet them but send it to them in the mail. I have no desire for personal confrontations. I didn't choose this and I don't want to be there to see them shatter.

Here's another question....Given that it has been so long and I have no fear of the affairs starting back up, should I give them a heads up, a chance to confess or should I just push the big red button?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personally, I can see no reason to give the fomer OW a heads up. All that does is give them a chance to pro-actively gaslight their poor husband's. If you're going to do it, I say do it yourself and make sure the truth is actually given.

I like your plan. Very organized and reasonable.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:31 AM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, Your H wrote that letter to OW, but not sent. There was also that phone call that you listened in to. I can see why you wouldn’t want them to “get away with it”. There are no words in the English language to describe what how you feel now, about the devastation and grief in the loss of your old marriage, the loss of someone you trusted and who was your best friend. And I can understand you wanting some sort of “revenge”, but it brings in someone who may neither deserve nor want what you might be revealing to them. And yet they may know or have an inkling anyway. You don’t know.

I sent a letter to OWH 17mths after DDay. I did not warn OW. I made it pretty brief, factual and kept it to one page. He then took his time digging around and finding emails and texts she had kept. The reasons? Now I look back, I’m not sure. For me it seemed the right thing to do b/c if the roles had been reversed and I had found out at a later date that he had known and chosen to not tell me, I would have felt betrayed by him too. But for the OWH in my case, it may not have been right, although it did explain for him her irrational and distressed behaviour when she finally lost my H to me. He said she was completely broken by the affair. But, in some ways, he would have preferred to carry on being in the dark b/c the affair was over and unlikely to start up again in the future. So, he would have had his wife “back”, but without really knowing why. And things had been better for several months before he got my letter bomb.

I did say in the letter why it was being sent 17mths later, which was that it had taken a year to get through the lies, that I had a meeting with OW 12mths after DDay and got more truths, that before then I would not have been able to cope emotionally with any fallout as a result of the letter but that I felt it was fair that he knew, even at that late stage.

I know you have thought long and hard about this. But even if you do follow through, you still may not be satisfied that the OW’s got their just deserts, whatever happens.

I’d be inclined to say let it go. Don’t being the possibility of the OW’s raging back into your marriage again.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the input and things to think about. So much going through my head. I do think that H sees sex as sex where I see it as making love, as showing someone you love them. Big difference and probably why he was able to have an affair. I have not asked many details about the sex and the ones I know have haunted me, so I don't ask. I need to think more about how to approach this all with him and /or MC.

I agree on telling BS. In fact, I almost wish I had one to tell but she is divorced. I'd like to screw up her life in some way. She was apparently heartbroken by the end of the A and expected him to leave for her, so I guess that was punishment.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT,
It's a much nicer trip without it.

I am sure it is.

BT, its so hard to imagine how you were from before,as all I can see here is a woman at peace with herself.
I want to be a woman like that oneday. At peace with myself.

BT,You truly are an inspiration.

***
Shirley,I would just do it. They dont need any forewarning.They had years to do that, and maybe one of them has shown some integrity, and did do it.Who knows?

Anyhow, are you going to do a recorded delivery to ensure that the H do get the letter? Are you going to supply your contact details? If you are, can I suggest for now, only your email address. Maybe even suggest that?

Lastly, think about how you and H are going to handle contact from the OWH, for eg, if they want proof,details, etc? How does he feel about this?

***

Hi UKg.

but it brings in someone who may neither deserve nor want what you might be revealing to them. And yet they may know or have an inkling anyway. You don’t know

I dont think thats fair, Ukg. Nobody deserves this, but all BSs have a right to know. And yes, they may have an inkling that something is wrong, but if they had been gaslighted, they would never know for sure. I didnt.

IMHO, telling a LTA BS is our duty. We are not talking about an accidental or drunken mistake...we are talking many many many sometimes daily, acts of deceit.

What they (BS) do after the letter, is their choice. They can pursue it further, or they can, like OWH#1 believe that his wife was all innocent, and my H was the devil incarnate; or like OWH#2, that they were just friends or whatever, but as a good Christian man, he will forgive and forget and get on with their life.


What I will agree on is:

you still may not be satisfied that the OW’s got their just deserts, whatever happens.

How true.

***
SoLost, all the best with approaching H. We are here if you want to bounce stuff off.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
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