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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost, I'm not surprised that you feel bad. You've just been ambushed by someone who should have been supporting you. It was not a nice thing for your mother to do. In fact, I think it was a downright passive-aggressive act for her to talk with your husband. Where the hell are her loyalties anyway?

I think you are certainly within your rights to ask your husband not to discuss you with your mother. And I would definitely do that. That's a weird little backdoor relationship that needs to end like yesterday.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

(((((SoLost))))))
I want you to try something, ok?
Pretend you are on a train in a subway, and its going fairly fast. You can see the stops as you look out the window, but not enough to really look at them. Thats ok cos you know that on your return journey, you will get off at each and every stop, and explore them at leisure. Just acknowledge the stops out loud, then let them pass by.

Those stops are your concerns [H, his issues, the kids, H's issues, possible dealbreakers, H's issues, your hair, H's issues ], and you are heading to your MC/IC session.

If you are like me, when one big thing goes quite bad, all the other little and meduim bothers jump in too. So this might help you just keep your wits about until your next session.

You cant really deal with anything now, as you and H seem to have reached an impasse. Take deep breathes; tap (I know I go on about this, but it does help some); know really really know that no matter, what you WILL be ok. Crying does help release some of the pent up energies, but then you need some action, even quiet actions.

When I am in a quandry, many here have pointed out to me, to find my quiet place in my head, use prayers or meditation, or whatever works for you.

You know you are right.You are standing up for yourself. Your H has done many things right thus far. Maybe he needs a asskick to get him over this bump. Hopefully your MC can do that.

Till then, just let it be. You have both said enough. Focus on the kids, and if you can, be extra nice to you. Go on!

We are holding you close this week.

(((((((SoLost)))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:41 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isn't there someone now who can give that to you when your Mom is being so difficult?

I feel pathetic saying this, but no.

I am that person for my sisters, well i used to be for the youngest, but as her relationship with her H grew closer, she needed me less, and that couldnt make me happier. She has found some of the peace and contentment we all need in their relationship.

My 2nd sister...I am afraid that one day I will disappoint her. I think she thinks I have all the answers. She calls me when she is lost somewhere; when her toddler is sick and she doesnt know what medicine to give him; when her H is being an asshat and she needs someone to vent to.

Unfort she is not very good at receiving emotional outbursts. She cant handle peoples feelings, and feel v uncomfortable. And she, like the youngest, are v protective of my mum. They have taken over my role in that way, and I know once she tells them about this incident,(if she hasnt already) they are going to be so pissed off with me. I am dreading that already. I should know better. "Do you want her to die? Do you know she has cancer, and might drop dead tomorrow? How many times do we have to tell you NOT to talk to mum about upsetting stuff?"

BT, H's relationship with my mum.
That goes way back. I wouldnt even know what to say to him as he would think I am being ridiculous, and OTT as usual.

We are having this big family dinner tonight with his aunty/uncle which my mum is hosting. She informed him off it, and told him I can bring a dish if I want to. I obviously need to know what her menu is, to compliment it, and asked him to find out. I later realised how stupid that is, using H as a messenger, and called her direct. I was polite and friendly. She was guarded. When I told H what I had done, he was upset. I had told him to call, he was supposed to do that, I should have told him first before calling, and his reaction made me nervous. I would have thought he would be pleased that I am handling this instead of adding to his load, but he wasnt. So dont know what to make of that.

Today is his 41st bday. Yesterday, was his last smoke day. He promised the kids that he wont smoke anymore. He has done this before,and broken it.
I truly hope he keeps it, for his and their sakes. He needs a big victory for himself. They need to see that no matter how difficult it is, that you can do something if you really wanted to. Also, more impt, that their dad CAN keep his promises. That is one of their main gripes with him...that he doesnt keep his promises.

Fnf, you did say I could wax on, so I am taking advantage as you can see.

Thank you all for your kindnesses.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

One of the things that was most difficult for me to give up in this whole process of growth was my longtime habit of treating people as though they were the people I wanted them to be, rather than the people that they are.

I wanted a Mom like Shirley's, and I always treated my mother like that even when she proved time after time that she wasn't that kind of supportive person. I built expectations of her as a mother that she was unable or unwilling to fulfill. I kept expecting her to act the way I wanted her to and she never did. I realized finally that by treating her as a person she wasn't, I was hurting both of us. I was constantly disappointed and I was giving her ammunition to hurt me repeatedly, which wasn't doing her own karma any good, and which subjected her to much anger from me.

When I really looked at her and saw the kind of person she actually was, I started to treat her differently. I did not confide in her anymore and I did not look for support or encouragement or even attention. I am still helpful to her and polite, and probably am a better daughter as I no longer carry an enormous amount of anger towards her for not being what I want her to be. But I no longer seek any emotional sustenance from her.

In dropping that desire for emotional help from her, I freed myself and I freed her. The dream of a loving, kind and nurting mother just wasn't to be realized in my life. It was a hard dream to let go of, but I found that trying to hold onto it was hurting me much worse than facing the reality that it wasn't to be.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((LostHeart))))

Thank you so much for those words also. Really, really helped. I totally sat and visualized and realized, I cannot stop this train yet. It needs o get to MC. I need to let it take me there and then deal with this all.

I think we are both just trying to ignore the big purple elephant in the room. He came home last night and sat up in bed with me holding hands and watching tv and talking...just like everything was normal. So I let it be as normal as I could. Fake it for now, right? Or at least try to let some of the anger go and the wanting to fix it all and just let things be.

I am actually going to try to get a quiet moment today and meditate and pray and just let myself be with me.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - I know in an earlier post you said that you thought I had a supportive mom - like HS's. In fact, my mom was similar to yours and LH's in that she was never the truly nurturing type. The difference is that I knew at a very early age that my mother was either incapable or unwilling to nurture me and so I accepted her as she was and when I needed emotional support and nurturing I went to my twin and my father and sometimes to my aunt who was the mother to me that my mom could not be. Having these other supportive, affectionate people in my life took the pressure off of my mother from me and provided me with my needs.
Having said that, there were times in my life when I did wish I had my mother's emotional support. I don't think any child, even adult children, ever completely stop yearning for that maternal nurturing. I also think that when we have been so utterly wounded by our S's we then do expect that our mother's will "step up to the plate" and become those mother's we have quietly, or not so quietly, longed for. When they don't, it is the ultimate disappointment. Afterall, if they cannot be there for us in those times of extreme pain and heartbrokenness, when will they be there for us?
When our mothers have not only let us down but have added insult to injury by saying hurtful, insensitive things I think, at least in my case, the desire to work on that relationship with them, completely disappears.
Like you, BT, I simply don't care anymore. I do love my mother, I take good care of her with her multiple health issues, but in terms of needing her, I have completely let go of that desire. I think this is so sad for both of us because the bond that I had secretly wished to create will never truly be.
Now, I have a question. I remember once discussing with a C the idea that we marry one of our parents. When I first heard of this I thought it was ludicrous. After some thought and examination, I realized there is probably a great deal of truth in this. Reading your posts and LH's, and thinking of my own relationship with my mom, and then looking at my relationship with my H, I know this is true in my case.
Like my mother, my H has always been emotionally unavailable. There is a concept - Repetition Compulsion - that explains why we do this. In brief, it simply means that we seek out people who represent that aspect of our childhood that we have been unable to resolve hoping to finally heal the wounds of our past.
(If someone can say this better, please feel free to help me out here. )
So, in my case, I subconsciously sought out a person who was emotionally unavailable to me and in doing so was repeating that pattern of need and disappointment hoping that if I can "fix" my H, possibly I can finally be healed of my old wounds. Does this make sense??
You see, it does to me and I was wondering if anyone else thought this was true for them.
I don't know why I am going on at such length about this other than to see if there are some of you who can relate to this.
Also, BT, I agree with you that we simply have to let go of this if we are going to be healthy. And if we can learn to let go of this deep and age old need to be nurtured and loved by our mothers or possibly for some our fathers, then maybe we can also learn to let go of the hurt and utter disappointment we have endured as a result of our H's LTA's.
I'd love to hear from others on this topic.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH - Is it possible that although you have always filled the role of the older, supportive and wiser sister that now, as adults, you could go to them and let them know how much you need their support? I assume they know what you are going through. I think it is critical that you have someone IRL to go to for comfort and encouragement when you are feeling so down. Sometimes we hold onto old roles because that is the way it has always been but maybe it is time for you to relinquish that role and trust that at least one of your sisters will give back some of the care and love you have so freely and frequently given to them.
I know it is complicated because of your mother's CA but what you are going through is not a small thing. If your youngest sister is in a satisfying, loving relationship, she has to understand on some level how painful these last few years have been for you. Would you consider giving her an opportunity to listen to and support you?
You might find that your sister is more than willing to be there for you. I hope this is true anyway.
As to your mom calling your H and discussing you, I'm with BT on this one. That would be completely infuriating to me. If someone has a gripe with me, I want them to come to me and allow me the opportunity to explain myself - I don't want someone attempting to explain my position especially if that someone has a tendency to diminish my feelings.
(((LH)))
SL - I am trying to catch up on the posts of last week and was reading some of yours. I have to say, your H is really pissing me off. So much of the way he handled the situation of his night out is just plain wrong.
It reminded me of something my MC said to my H during one of his "woe is me, FNF is never going to forgive me" sessions. He looked at my H and asked, "If this is too much trouble for you, let us know now and don't waste anymore of FNF's time." I loved that he said that to my H and it was like a slap in his face and he stammered and immediately snapped out of his "pity me" mode. I think your H needs to have this said to him as well.
The other major point is that once our trust has been destroyed our S's need to spend whatever energy they have to restore it and that means that the M MUST always come first. This bullshit of feeling sorry for himself, of placing the call with others in the background, of having some woman ready to confirm his story, is so completely unbelievable and you are totally justified in your reaction to him. I am so angry for you. I do hope you have a great MC who will call him on this behavior.
Don't back down - you are handling this extremely well.
(((SL))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

forgivenotforget, thank you so much for that verification. We have great counselors and they have definitely called him out on behavior before. I pray they do it this time. We are almost going in with a 'who's right?' attitude and I don't want him to immediately go to the defensive. He does that a lot and says he's always wrong in our eyes. Umm, yeah, b/c you ARE!

I reminded him how it's not an issue for me to not socialize with other guys without him but somehow he is furious that he can't do it with other women and he's the one who had the affair. Amazing.

I honestly think he needs his meds adjusted. We discussed it briefly at the last visit and he didn't feel he did. He has an appointment with the med adjusting doc in September, so I am hoping my little comments will add up by then. He did say at the last session that he would go up but he only has one more dose he can go up until he is at the max for that drug.

I have to call and get a babysitter for the MC session today for Wednesday. I dread calling her, I don't know why. I think b/c she is the only one who knows and I don't want to be asked how things are going. You know? I am sorry I had to tell her and I would rather no one knew IRL.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF, I'm sorry about including your Mom in that description because I do remember you posting about her unhelpful comments.

I totally subscribe to the theory about us repeating our relationship with our parents in our marital choices. My H does also. It's the basis of Imago therapy and other relationship therapies, too. My own IC believes that we unconsciously find in out mates an amalgam of the most problematic traits of both our parents. A kind of superfund of dysfunction if you will. I would say that was definitely true in my case.

And yes, I think it is true that most of us will go through life hoping for emotional sustenance from someone else, even if we never get it.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf, that theory makes total sense to me too. I think the Hendrix book mentions it too.
I can see now that H had always been unemotionally available,yet I chose to ignore it. And I spent so much time and effort trying to "prove" my love to him (no different from what I did to my parents).

I wonder which parent I represent for him? Prob aspects of both of them.

I was doing fine with my mum till I started work. We werent v close, just friendly and cordial, nothing v deep, although I continued to offer support when she griped about my dad. I think I have let my barriers down recently (as things have been going so good for me/us ). I need to remind myself that the barriers are there to protect me.

H has been asking me whats wrong, but I know he doesnt really want to know. He just wants a quick fix problem with a quick fix solution. Today, my mum called again and before he handed me the phone, she must have said something cos he laughed and said "You check". For some reason, that made me so angry. After the call, I asked him what she had said,]. App she told him that she had a favour to ask me, and what did he think her chances were, and they both laughed as he said he didnt know,(suggesting who would know!), to check with me.

This infuriated me. Them two laughing at me. The tears just popped into my eyes.

Later on, when he asked again, whats wrong, I told him briefly,and said that I felt so sad and so utterly alone, and this is what he said:
"You dont have your mother. You dont have your sisters. You dont have me. You ARE alone. That is something you have to get used to."
And he was about to launch into his sililoquy about how he had always been alone, and didnt have/need anybody etc etc (yes, I have heard this many many times), and I stopped him.No more.

Anyway, the evening went well. We all put on a good show for the visitors. No one would ever think that we had any issues.

I will let go of my fantasy of my mum. I am still letting go of my fantasy of my H.

Fnf, my sisters wont be there for me in that way. They both can not understand why I would stay with H after everything. He reminds them too much of my dad.If I left H, I know that they would offer every kind of support, but since I have decided to stay, then I should shut up and put up. And I wouldnt DARE say anything bad about my mum.As I said, they have become v protective over her.

You know what H told me earlier on when I was crying. HE said that I would get over this, that I always go through these "phases", and come out on top again.HE doesnt get how upset I am, how hurt and alone I feel, how this is not just another phase, or my hormones or whatever.

But I cant really talk to him, nor do I want to. Right now, I dont much trust him with my feelings. That would be laying myself open to more pain.

***
SoLost,yes, fake it. Or rather, like you said,let go of the need to have this fixed right away. Trust that it will resolve itself in time, and that you can still breathe with this pushed to one corner.

All the best.

***
thanks tribe for holding my hand.

Good night all.

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 5:49 PM, August 3rd (Sunday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You ARE alone.

Well, yes, Mr. Lost, for most of us that's been true. We didn't know it, because you told us something different. You promised to be there for us and with us, and true to us, and we believed you.

We didn't have great role models of true connected relationships in our youth to judge our own against. We believed that the love we held for our spouses would somehow automatically create the kind of marriage we wanted. Most of us had the naive belief that marriage should be easy if it was the right one. We didn't know a lot of the things you should know before you enter a relationship that is supposed to last a lifetime.

But just because we have not had a real connection so far does not mean we cannot have one in the future if we are willing to do the work to learn how to create and sustain one.

You can continue to go through life not needing anyone if you like, but understand that is your choice. You can choose something different if you desire. I believe you know that's true because I would bet you've seen that in others. Maybe a married couple, maybe a pair of siblings, maybe friends. People who are always there for one another and wouldn't have it any other way. You can have that too if you want it.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ohmigosh! {{{LTA Tribe}}}

I am so sorry to read of all the hurt being experienced and very glad to see the support offered by wise members. Reading the advice helps me to cope with my situation even though the circumstances may differ I can empathize and identify with so much of what is written.

For me, the weeks leading to and since our anniversary in June have been a roller coaster of a magnitude not experienced up til now. I haven't posted a lot of it, not knowing what to share or how to begin. Three weeks spent apart from my FWH did not have the effect I'd hoped for. We spoke on the phone often while I was away and although he told me he was working on the letter he promised me, he didn't have one waiting for me on my return home. He decided that a bedroom reno and house reorganization was more important. My feelings and expression of my needs in order to be able to R have fallen on deaf ears! Conflict avoidance continued. He says he got distracted by the painting and organizing. More disappointment for me. Why do I even hope for resolution of the issues?

While I was away I applied for the passport needed to make an airplane trip out of the country (an island paradise) at the end of July with FWH and had it sent to our home address. Expecting an honest and revealing exchange on my return, I'd hoped we would be in a better place in our reconciliation before the trip. No letter! Then he had a business trip out of town which resulted in a meltdown on my part when I couldn't reach him, followed by a promise that he would write me every day when he got home.

I should know by now not to get my hopes up. It was 3 days before I received a brief letter promising more to follow.

His job and family occasions kept us busy that week. Again broken promises. No more letters. Still I kept to myself a lot, giving him time to spend on the letter. On the last day before our flight, as I did laundry and packed, I saw him writing. We had a nice dinner. The evening passed and he hadn't given me a letter. I asked him if he had one for me. He said 'yes' but didn't know if he should give it to me. I now wish he'd lied and told me it wasn't finished. I didn't want to think of it waiting for me during the trip so I read it. He had so long to reveal the truth and his timing made it worse. We traveled separately due to my trip reservations being made later than his so I had many hours to read and re-read his letter. I pretty much collapsed sobbing in his arms when he arrived at the luggage carousel. We talked some and I fell asleep in his arms, more from fatigue than relief. We played tourist for 2 days until our son arrived. Meeting him was the reason for our trip. We spent 2 days together... then I flew home and FWH is sailing home with our son. He'll be gone for the next 10 days during which I don't expect to hear from him much. Internet and phone access is very limited.

I plan to re-read and respond to his last letter. But don't know if I'll give it to him. Maybe it will become part of my journal. In some ways I'm back at square one. For me the gas lighting has occurred since Dday, not during the A. I didn't suspect a thing for 3 yrs, was totally blindsided by discovery of the chat logs on our home PC and archives on his laptop. NC has been broken several times... as recently as 2 months ago due their ongoing business dealings. Somehow I have to summon up the strength to deal with the new info and the ripple effect it will have. Time... that 4-letter word again... will tell.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:51 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((lostsuol)))))


As recently as 2 months ago, and you didnt know!

That stupid man.

***
BT,
Every line you wrote rang true. I read it out to H and asked him what he thought. He said its very different for a couple (like us)who have so many issues between us. Sigh.
And that he didnt think much about this kind of stuff anyway.

You can continue to go through life not needing anyone if you like, but understand that is your choice. You can choose something different if you desire.


Well said.

***
Have a good day Tribe!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You dont have me. You ARE alone

LH - I read this and it made me very sad for both of you. Did you ask your H what he meant by this?
Isn't the point of R to work toward having each other in real and meaningful ways - ways we've, as LTA survivors, have never been connected before? What is the point of working so hard if in the end we don't learn how to have a deep, satisfying relationship with our marriage partner? Isn't the point of all of our IC'ing and MC'ing to learn how to overcome the "many issues between us?" so that we can become strong, loving and supportive couples?
Why should we settle for less if we can have so much more?
I have not stayed in my M so that I can have more of the same of the past 34 years. I have stayed because I want to work on having something so much greater. BT and her H have overcome their issues and now are enjoying the M of their dreams. It is possible if both partners truly want to make it happen. I believe that with all my heart and personally wouldn't be working my ass off if I didn't believe it.
I wonder if your H made this comment out of fear. Fear that he will let you down. Fear of not wanting to disappoint you and himself. Where is his faith? Doesn't he see every day how much love you have for him? We see it in every post, even the angry ones. I don't believe any one of us in this LTA forum would be here working our tails off if we didn't have so much love for our S's. We are not here because we are masochists. We are here because we believe in M, we believe in family, and we believe that we can overcome the worst that betrayal has dealt us.
Have faith, Mr. LH. Your wife loves you, cherishes your family, and believes it is possible for the two of you to overcome the damage your LTA has caused. Be not afraid to believe. You are not alone - she is with you. Be with her - don't ask her to be alone because you lack faith. Believe, believe, believe!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My own IC believes that we unconsciously find in out mates an amalgam of the most problematic traits of both our parents. A kind of superfund of dysfunction if you will. I would say that was definitely true in my case.

Just had to quickly respond. I can't be on here today because I'm going to work shortly. Yay!

But both my ICs have harped on this one... my most difficult relationship was with my mother. I had barely any relationship with my father and I guess I wanted to "create" one with my H. My father was the adulterer... talk about repeating the dysfunction....


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Fnf))))
I hope I didnt upset you.

Had an intensive IC session today, and she pulled out a few gentle 2x4s.

Here they are :
* My H has proved himself unreliable, selfish, immature,unstable,a source of pain, abuse and neglect.
* My mum has proved herself to be selfish, unprotective, a source of pain, and what my IC insists were abuse and neglect.

They are also my 2 supposed main supporters, and alleged sources of love and affection.

Last week, I was in a downward spiral and a few events made the load overwhelming. I turn to the 2 people who are known sources of abuse for love and support. These two then joined forces to beat me up, sharing the beating stick...and I let them.

She said I was like a little girl, needing love, running from one abuser to another. As each abuser (in the guise of protector)beat me, I believed what they were saying, things they have said over the years, and which I use myself to beat myself up.

3 people beating one person up.

Now I cant change those 2 people, but I can change me. She said that when H told me that i was alone, I should have rather have said, "Yes, I am alone. Thats ok. I will get stronger, and I will get over this by myself. It would have been nice to have someone to rely on, but i dont at this time in my life. I will oneday. So now, thanks to you pointing it out, I know that although I am alone, I will remember that I WILL be ok ('cos realistically speaking, how is this any different from before. THIS time I know it).

IC thinks that mum's and H's behavior this weekend were very very cruel and hurtful. Almost abusive. And that they have done this before many times, For some reason, they use beating me, as a vent to their frustrations (which may not even be related to me), and I buy into this dysfunction with my reactions to this.

She said that the day will come, when no matter how much they laugh at me; no matter what they say; I will be able to stand up for myself, break their pattern, and not get drawn in. She said that she can see it happening already,(by me going over H's head to speak to my mum, and thus refusing to reinforce their portrayal of me being the difficult wife/daughter.)

I tell you,Tribe, I was pretty bummed up after the session.

If I cant rely on my H or mum for support and love, then...

I just feel so weary.
She said I have been fighting this battle for a long long time. And theres no saying where it will end.
Stay in the dance,and fight them, or step aside and fight for me.

I told her that i want to take my kiddos and run. I dont want these people in my life anymore. And to think that I have a long ways to go before I become that strong person she envisages.

****

Weepy, hope you have a great first day!

****
Shirley, how are you?
Where are you?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH - Of course you didn't upset me. I was just worried about you and extremely ticked off with your H's words. His loss, LH, his loss.
I'm glad your session with the IC was today. The timing couldn't have been more perfect. I agree with her that you are getting stronger every day. It absolutely sucks that the two people who should be there for you, your H and your mom, are so dysfunctional. But I'm hoping that as Bt has said in the past, once they see you changing for the better, they will decide to change too and it will benefit each of you. Maybe it's too late for your Mom, but it's not too late for your H.
Chin up, LH. We're here. YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!
ETA - Calling Hurtshirley - let us know how you are. We'd love to hear from you.
Also, a big congratulations to Weepy. How was your first day?

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 4:27 PM, August 4th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Fnf)))))

You are such a dear friend. Your kids are very fortunate.

You know, I am pretty surprised by me. You would think I would be a whole lot of mess, but I am not.

H is away tonight, has taken his aunt and uncle away to visit other relatives. My mum commented yesterday that she so hopes that he gets to spend time with his uncle, as he needs that role model (having been deprived as a child); and that the more time he spends with his family, the better off he will be. right.
He has been playing with her this whole weekend (they have been having, what I called to my IC, little"case conferences" about me, as they both need the other to reinforce that the dysfunction is in me, and not them. They have done this for years, and my Ic asked me why have I never put a stop to it. I guess it didnt occur to me that i could. And the end result would be everyone agreeing how difficult LH is, how moody and over sensitive and such high maintenance, she is. And that would feed into my views of myself already.

My mum thinks that he likes and respects her. He doesnt. Never will.And that actually makes me sad for her.
He is boring of the game already, and asked me before he left, "Whats up with your mum?She seems to be obsessing about me.". ya think? jeez.

But its not about her or him. Its about their own dysfunctions that make them turn towards each other, and against me.


Really ugly, isnt it?
And these people love me!
Would hate to see what they do to people they hate.

Thanks Fnf. I know I am being flip, but I cant be anything else right now. Too much to take in.

I Am going to be OK.

I can not tell you enough how much i appreciated and so desp needed yours, and BT's and Shirley's and evryone else's helping hands this last week.

Lots and lots of love and good wishes from me to you all.

Off to read my babies their bedtime stories. Its way late, but its their hols after all.

Good night Mary Jane.
(You know I wasnt as big a fan of The Waltons, as I was of Little House on the Prairie. I wanted to be Laura so much. )

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 4:57 PM, August 4th (Monday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH - I know what it's like when certain people have held some sort of power over you. My mom had power over me until one day I just couldn't take it anymore. It's amazing the panic that ensues in them once they realize they can't control you any more. My mom tried several different angles and now we are at a place that is somewhat reserved on both our parts. It is better than the previous scenario.
Hold your ground. Don't let them force you into the old, destructive mode of behavior.
You will like the new arrangement so much better. Trust me, I love not allowing my mom to control me. I allowed that for years believing that if I gave her power over me, she would finally love me in the way I had always hoped. Once I accepted that she wasn't capable of that, I was free. Freedom is pure bliss, let me tell you. You will be so much better for it and it is a much healthier arrangement for you both.
As for your H, I do hope he wakes up and realizes how much better you M can be if he agrees to break with the old patterns in your M. But if that is not to be, I know you will come out stronger and wiser and I agree, YOU WILL BE OK.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hold your ground. Don't let them force you into the old, destructive mode of behavior

Going to try my best, Fnf. My kids are SO not going to be having this conversation oneday!!!

HAve a good day you.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
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