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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((lostheart)))))

As painful as that IC session must have been, you know she is right. And the sooner you can accept this and put it aside, the sooner they will not be able to hurt you. I don't know your mother, only what you have told us here, by I believe the responsibilities that she heaped upon you at such a young age was child abuse. I believe the way she is acting with your H is abusive. We all know that our Hs have the ability and the talent of abusing us...they were masters. If they choose to continue that behavior then it is up to us to put them in a place where it cannot affect us. I have been fortunate in that my H is now trying not to hurt me. However, for the last 7 years, after the affairs ended, I realized that I had put distance between myself and him. I didn't know why I felt he was hurting me, but I could feel it inside. I wanted to protect myself, so I distanced myself. Do I believe this is the best solution for a successful R? No. But I now believe first and foremost in self-protection. I also believe in the power of mirth. When they try this shit, just laugh. Laugh because you recognize it for what it is. Laugh as if they are children and you can see them trying to sneak something in and it makes you giggle inside.

As far as being alone, you most certainly not alone...you have us. and we rock I am sure there are people IRL that would surprise you if you turned to them. If you turn to someone and they dissapoint you, try to think of it as a learning experience. Just put them in the "not a close friend" column and move on. I have been surprised by those that have been supportive and those that have been judgemental. I have tried not to judge them for their reactions. Rather I have just re-written their place in my life.

I hope this doesn't sound too 2X4 ish...it is not meant to be at all. I like what your IC said and I would like to help you see that it is a very positive step for you.

BTW: I have been lurking but not posting as your mom discussion was so good that I didn't want to get in the middle of it. Suffice it to say, I am so thankful for my mother. I am so sad for my H that he had the mother he did.

ETA: sorry FNF just repeated everything you said...I stared my response and then got distracted by the family. By the time I got back, you had already said this to LH and LH had responded. Anyway, LH you have us.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 5:14 PM, August 4th (Monday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay...so time for me to hog the board.

I have been thinking about the whole "you marry one of your parents thing" and I can't find it in my relationship. My mother was always loving and there. My dad was not the most physically close person with us but he worked incredibly hard to provide a good life for us. I married the guy from the wrong side of the tracks which was not my parents...just can't figure it out. Can anybody give me guidance?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys, getting caught up on all your posts.. my we are a chatty bunch, huh? But the support here always amazes me.... each one of you is awesome. It still mystifies me that our FWH's could do this to us.. a group of wonderful women -smart, funny, quick-witted.

LH, You are making it, friend, despite the odds of having dysfunctional mom & H in your way. Listen to your IC- time to protect LH and become the LH you've always wanted to be. They can just adjust to it!

Good night Mary Jane.
(You know I wasnt as big a fan of The Waltons, as I was of Little House on the Prairie. I wanted to be Laura so much. )

Ummm...I confess I started the Waltons thing. But you know, I just think our sisterhood here is so strong that the goodnights and "checking in" on one another was like that. But hey, I'm a Little House fan, too.

Weepy, Congrats on the new job. Let us know how it is going when you have a minute.

HS, I think the whole imago concept is that we marry someone who has some combination of traits in our parents that we are trying to "work through"... BT can correct me on this if I don't have it all. For me, I have a WONDERFUL mom who was there for me as a child and is my biggest supporter as an adult. My dad was wonderful, too and overall a good dad. But everyone has their flaws. My dad could be critical at times. Imagine then that I marry my H, who makes my dad's critical nature look like small potatoes. I was lucky, very lucky, to have such good parents. They remain happily married. Have always been there, sacrificed. Supported me in my marital strife, yet opened their hearts again to H when I made the decision to R. I am just in awe of my folks- I hope my kids think I am half the parent mine are. Anyway, many of us have commented on here that our FWHs had horrible childhood/parents and I truly believe that set the course for them. But I also now think, like BT, that this can change if they want it badly enough. Maybe not a complete transformation, because some things I think are too firmly set. But enough of a transformation to have a healthy M and family life.

FNF - You know, I've seen a lot of progress with you lately in how you support all of us here. Keep it up

BT- one of your recent posts struck a cord with me. About working through issues with your mom- I'm trying to work up the nerve to share your post with my H. I hope he can come to terms with his "emotionally limited" mom and be happier for it. But he has a ways to go, me thinks... You are such an inspiration to this board. Thank you for being here. I know it takes a lot out of someone when they have moved into the phase where you are to keep coming back to help those less far along.

Hopefully I don't leave anyone out, but I'm tired here and work has been crazy in addition to the kids.

Oh, on another topic before signing off, I just wanted to ask you guys: Do your Hs get all apologetic every time something relating to As or adultery comes on TV or a movie? I was just curious. Mine is very sensitive to this and every time it's on TV before the night is over he is apologizing for his A. And sometimes I haven't even triggered- we are almost 3 years out past dday and I don't have the triggers as badly. Anyway, I wondered if your Hs do this or if this was unique to him and I should give him "extra credit"...

Hugs,
HB

[This message edited by hearbroken at 11:27 PM, August 4th (Monday)]


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning Tribe.


(((((Shirley))))
Thank you too.

I have been thinking about the whole "you marry one of your parents thing" and I can't find it in my relationship

Is this true for every M?
Sorry, S, dont have a clue, but just wanted to let you know you were read.

And if you call THAT hogging??!!
Amateurs.

***
Hi HB.
I wondered where the Waltons thing started.


But I also now think, like BT, that this can change if they want it badly enough

I think that too. I also know that I have to make some chnges too, and I am working hard on this.
But seeing H like this weekend, sent me to a cold place, and threw me back to how he used to gaslight all those years ago.He would speak to my family and his family, and say things about me, and they would agree. I used to think before that it was because he was so convincing (and that it was so true that they had to). Now I think that maybe they wanted to hurt me too,for their own reasons, KWIM?

And when I heard how I was portrayed, I acted like that too, whch just reinforced everything.

I thought H and I had reached a new level in our relationship, a kinder, more loving level.But thats not true.

So I will carry on working on me, and leave it to the Greater Powers that be to see where we end up.

Do your Hs get all apologetic every time something relating to As or adultery comes on TV or a movie?

H used to,(Would mouth, "Sorry"), now he just changes the channel.

Anyway, I wondered if your Hs do this or if this was unique to him and I should give him "extra credit"...

Oh go on, HB! Give Mr HB extra extra credit!!!!
Yay Mr HB!!!!

***
Have a good day, Tribe.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:13 AM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning to you too LostH,

Marrying your parent? Well, I married someone my parents liked, he married someone his parents liked (they so did not like OW when she was fiancee)and both sets of parents like each other. I thought I was marrying someone reliable (like my Dad), trustworthy (like my Dad), faithful (like my Dad), solvent (like my Dad), someone who loved me (like my Dad loves my Mum), someone who would look after me and any children (like my Dad did with Mum and we four), someone who would put me first in every respect (LIKE MY DAD!!!!!) Guess I was wrong on some counts.

He has not married his mother. I don’t think. I’m not a drama queen. Actually, MOW/ex-fiancee is prob more like his Mum than I am. So, what does that say?

You ARE alone. That is something you have to get used to.
LostH, I just want to pick up on that. That was mean and unnecessary. And untrue. None of us are meant to get through life alone – otherwise what is the point of any relationship if it is parasitic (limited and destructive) instead of symbiotic (ongoing and mutually beneficial)?
I wonder if your H made this comment out of fear.
I think there could be something in that statement, don’t you? His thinking is so screwed b/c of his fear of failure, of being exposed as a failure and so he has put up walls to keep everyone out. Learn from your IC sessions, you are stronger than you think and you do not need to seek support from people who just put you down or don’t think your feelings are valid. Distance yourself a little and get some perspective on them. See your mother as the emotionally manipulative woman she is who has heaped her issues on you. They are not your issues, they are hers alone. She hasn’t dealt with them? That’s not your problem. Seems to me she could do with some serious counselling herself – but you know that ain’t gonna happen. You never have to justify yourself to us, sweetie. We want you to know that you are a lovely woman and just fine!
Now I think that maybe they wanted to hurt me too,for their own reasons, KWIM?
To establish power over you and confirm that they can bully you. So don’t let them have that power.

LostS – What letter are you asking for? Answers to your questions? Hasn't he done it?

[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:18 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oops. Me again! My editing powers have gone to pot!

Where was I? (mumble, mumble)

I am so thankful for my mother.

I am for mine, but I could never tell her about what’s gone on here. She’d be devastated. And I don’t think she would be that supportive as she’s a roll your sleeves up and get on with it type. Don’t complain if you are going to stay. Oh she’s great for when DS’s were born – all practical and hands on. Brilliant when I was having DS4 and I was ordered by the midwife to go in for bed rest. we had the rat catcher here (previous owners left the house infested), the garden was mud, no kitchen, no hot water, no electricity to the back end of the house. It was pretty bad. Although I was in “can cope with anything” mode and thought the midwife was over-reacting. And there was my Mum doing wonders with a kettle and a microwave in the study and sorting out the nursery.

As for my attitude in life, IC has put various childhood fears of abandonment to me and has concluded that my “can do it without you” is why FWH thought I didn’t need him. And, as you have all read here, on a purely practical day to day level, I don’t. But that seems to be something common to all BS’s in the LTA corner. We are left to get on with it because we can and do. And they go off and get their fragile egos stroked elsewhere by some two bit doing her damsel in distress act.

But I think I am more able to empathise with and be more physical with my children than my mother was/is with us. She couldn’t even hug my sister when she broke down sobbing one time. My nephew had been driving. He killed his girlfriend, his gf’s best friend and put his bf in intensive care. He had a broken nose. A few weeks later, my sister’s bf committed suicide by throwing herself out of a top floor window. All my sister wanted and needed was someone to hug her.


Can anybody give me guidance?

You wanted a “bit of rough” and didn’t want to be like the families in “Little boxes, on the hillside and they’re all made out of ticky-tacky and they’re boxes, little boxes, little boxes just the same” The rebel in you, I reckon.

Do your Hs get all apologetic every time something relating to As or adultery comes on TV or a movie?

Nope. I give him a look and he says “don’t give me that look – I know, ok?!” Then he'll pull me over for a bear hug or a fierce kiss, which I can't resist cos he's 225 pound to my 120! But he’ll turn it off or over.

Major edit over. You can go back to what you were doing now.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, this discussion is way too deep for only having like 20 minutes to catch up and then no time to post! Well, I'm off on Fridays, so that looks like it's going to be my heavy writing day.

Oh, on another topic before signing off, I just wanted to ask you guys: Do your Hs get all apologetic every time something relating to As or adultery comes on TV or a movie? I was just curious. Mine is very sensitive to this and every time it's on TV before the night is over he is apologizing for his A. And sometimes I haven't even triggered- we are almost 3 years out past dday and I don't have the triggers as badly. Anyway, I wondered if your Hs do this or if this was unique to him and I should give him "extra credit"...

My H apologizes for nothing. He said "I'm sorry" about 4 times in total for the affairs. Not even a one-for-one ratio. Both my ICs and the books I've read reinforce the idea that I should never expect apologies from him because that means he'd actually have to acknowledge that he'd done something wrong and since he won't face what he's done, ever, he's not strong enough to do that, I can expect instead, actions. Maybe VERY delayed actions, but a few days after an "incident" he might volunteer to buy us water ice or will clean up the kitchen from dinner. But since what I WANT is for him to look at himself and see his flaws and acknowledge them and fix them, nothing seems to feel like an apology.

It's like the Five Languages. You have to make an effort to speak the other person's language or it's just not going to get through...

Like this past weekend he was a real bear. Miserable as anything. Nothing I did was good enough. He ignored what the kids asked him to do. Sat around angry and avoidant. I tried to "connect" using some of the techniques the books recommend, but nothing worked. He even blamed me for "making" him pump the wrong price level of gas in his car... I wasn't even there... but I had distracted him with a phone call. I could have chosen to get just as pissy and giving him the $2 difference, but that would have been admitting I WAS in some way at fault. So I ignored it. (Well, after telling him that he made his own mistake at the gas station). It was my fault DS didn't mow the lawn before he went out. He was going to cancel our phones because I missed one of his calls earlier that day while in the SHOWER!

Then yesterday, he calls me on my way into work and tells me to "knock 'em dead" and he's sure I'll have the place running right in no time. And spent about a half hour actually listening and discussing what I'd learned about the company later last night.

It's truly a wonder I don't have whiplash!

I just want to give a great big hug out to everyone. LH, SoLost, hb, Fnf, UKG, BT. Everyone struggling with something in their life right now. I've just decided that nothing is going to cause me to struggle. If it's a battle, I'm letting it go. Just too big a strain on ME.

Work was fine. They're a bunch of young go-getters. I mean no one's over 35. And they even bought me lunch yesterday.

Well, off to shower and see what they have in store for me today.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I married the guy from the wrong side of the tracks which was not my parents...just can't figure it out. Can anybody give me guidance?

HS - I have to agree with UKG on this one - is it possible there's a little rebel in you???
I remember reading an article once a long time ago about the attraction to "bad boys." There's the thrill and excitement that a good guy doesn't offer and when we're young we tend to look for excitement in a relationship. Then, of course, there's that sexual tension/chemistry thing going on. When I met my H I was dating the "nice guy" but there was no chemistry and as much as I felt he would have made a great H, I wanted/needed that sexual chemistry and it just wasn't there. Then along came my H. Wow, we couldn't keep our hands off each other. It was fireworks!
All common sense disappears when you're young and there's that kind of chemistry going on. I was 21 for god's sake. 21 - a baby. What the hell did I know about anything? So, HS, that's my take. You'll have to let us know if any of this makes sense.
HB - Just last night we were watching a movie and there was a woman running with a married man. I could tell my H was very uncomfortable and had this nervous laugh. Later, when we went to bed, he was being very affectionate and talking to me about my upcoming birthday - what did I want to do, who do I want to be included, all kinds of questions, being very solicitous. He has never done that. He buys me nice gifts but basically I have always thrown my own birthday dinner. I should really take advantage of him when he's like that.
Most times though, he gets so uncomfortable he'll either get up and walk out of the room or change the channel. Problem is, there is very little to watch on TV that doesn't include an infidelity scene.
That's what I always say to my H. We'd have to live in a bubble if we want to shield ourselves from these annoying triggers.
Weepy - you sound great. You go girlfriend!

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:46 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((LH))) That must have been an incredibly exhausting session. But to know is to have power. You can so this. You can be that strong person that she sees and that we see. We just need you to see it. Oh, and Mary Jane was not one of the Walton's if I remember correctly. rofl. Mary Ellen maybe. rofl

Hurtshirley, I am one of those people who married there father (who btw is another long story but left my mom after 30 years and doesn't speak to my brother or I. Married the ow). But not everybody fits the cookie cutter mold. Hang in there! I understand looking for answers but I just don't think there always are answers. Sometimes people just act like jerks.

Hearbroken, give him extra credit, mine is clueless! Well, not entirely, but I definitely wouldn't call him sensitive to it. And he has never really apologized out of the blue without me triggering. He will look sheepish and change the channel if it is something overtly affairish.

Weepy, sounds like a great first week of work so far!!! I'm sorry your H can be so confusing but I think you are really starting to work on how you deal with things instead of trying to change him. You should be proud of yourself.

Home sick with a stomach thing today. Made it halfway to work and turned around. Blech. Feeling a bit better now.

H actually called and got a sitter for us for the MC without me asking. Amazing. I suspect we are going to have to drop our big argument after tomorrow's session. I just don't have the energy to stay angry about it forever. I just know not to trust his judgement and that is so sad. I often ask how I can stay married to someone I don't trust or respect. I hope that can all come back.

I have not told anyone about the affair. My mom as I said earlier was cheated on after 30 years (probably LTA) and would tell me to leave immediately. Remember the girl who asked H for drinks who is a close friend? My mom thought they were having an inappropriate relationship at one point. I don't think they did--I trust her story-- but I know from that reaction that she would want me to leave and it would be all I would hear. And the thought of the kids and I living with her and her husband makes me ill. Nice to have somewhere to go, but ill. So I hide my dirty little secret and pretend that all is well and stay resentful that it makes life so much easier on H.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Ukg!
LostH, I just want to pick up on that. That was mean and unnecessary. And untrue

Wel, I dont know.
Yes, it was mean and unnecessary, but it was also true. Apart from you guys and my kiddos, I am alone. Sure I have my sisters and a few close friends, but at the end of the day, noone I can really count on.

However, that doesnt mean that I want to remain like that. I would like to think that one day I would be in a relationship with someone I could trust and rely on. I hope that is H.But I am becoming aware that he may just not be capable of that.

***

She couldn’t even hug my sister when she broke down sobbing one time

Ukg, why do you think she is so undemonstrative? Is it because she can't empathise, or is not comfortable with emotions, or just doesnt know how to access that part of her psyche?
Can you see yourself reflected there?

Then he'll pull me over for a bear hug or a fierce kiss, which I can't resist cos he's 225 pound to my 120![/
quote]

Oh puh-lease, Ukg!
That sounded just soooo convincing.

***
Is there something in the air??

Then along came my H. Wow, we couldn't keep our hands off each other. It was fireworks!

Fnf, you little vixen you!

I should really take advantage of him when he's like that.

And you arent because???

So, come on..what are your bday plans? And when? Shirley wants to know...lol.

I know Ukg is sometime around nowish, but am not sure when. Ukg??

***

SoLost,

I suspect we are going to have to drop our big argument after tomorrow's session

Hey, you are doing so well thus far. Dont give up yet. At the end of the day, you stood up for what you believed, your H kept to it, and a line has been seriously drawn. He will hopefully think twice before he pulls another stunt like that. And I am hoping that your MC is able to see the error of his actions,such that next time, he is able to act more responsibly, not out of fear of your reaction, but because he knows that it is the right thing to do for both of you.

Your mum having being through a LTA herself, might be more empathetic than you think. I dont know her. And why does her knowing mean that you will have to go live with her? Are you saying that she will bully you into moving out?


I just know not to trust his judgement and that is so sad

Yes, it is sad. But rather be aware than blind, right SoL?

(((((SoLost)))))

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 2:53 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Work was fine. They're a bunch of young go-getters. I mean no one's over 35. And they even bought me lunch yesterday.

Ah, to be the wise sage who is feted on by the youth...sigh.

Hope you had a great day, Weepy!!!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I avoided coming here today until now (7:30p). I am in a bad place and not coping well at all.
I feel very much the way LH does about being alone. Apart from you guys, I have only myself. I have my sister (1500 miles away) and 2 close friends who know, but at the end of the day, there is only me that I can really count on. I had a meltdown with my m-i-l today. She knows but I told her not to speak to FWH about it. She thinks that since we are still together and H is affectionate in her presence that all is OK with us. He has never admitted his infidelity to her or his family members. He is still a man of integrity in their eyes.

I read what you guys write and feel that a lot is pertinent to my situation. I try to heal by following the advice given here. I don't think I have much wisdom to contribute to the tribe though. In many ways I am still in shock, almost 18 months since Dday.

HB wrote:

Do your Hs get all apologetic every time something relating to As or adultery comes on TV or a movie?

I wish my H would acknowledge a reference to As in the media. But, No. It seems to go right over his head. I'm the one who changes the channel or leaves the room. So HB... give Mr HB credit for his sensitivity.

Weepy - Good going on the new job! Knock those youngsters dead!

UKGirl wrote:

LostS – What letter are you asking for? Answers to your questions? Hasn't he done it?

I was going to PM my answer to UKGirl but decided I could use the feedback of any LTA tribe member willing to post or send me a PM.

Yes UKG, 18 months from Dday and I've still been waiting for answers via letter from FWH. I used your template from our PMs to give him a letter to respond to at the beginning of June (after our 35th anniv. disaster). I was away for 3 weeks helping my sister move. There was no letter on my return although he told me on the phone that he was working on it. Instead he painted the spare BR and rearranged the kitchen, LR & DR. Yes, everything looked great BUT... These are things I needed and expected from him when we moved here but he was too busy with OW online when he wasn't working long hours or out of town. He says he got distracted and carried away with painting and cleaning, wanting to give me a nice home. I thought his time was being spent on the letter he told me he would write to explain his A. As he was proudly showing me around the house, I was waiting for his letter.

To make a long story not so long... I got 2 letters in the last few weeks. You may recall that he offered to write one just after Dday but has avoided doing it as 'he didn't know where to start' but hasn't been able to tell me much either for the same reason. It took me telling him that I couldn't continue in this marriage feeling as I did to get him out of the fog a bit. But not enough to make him settle down to the task. Conflict Avoider is one of his personality traits.

One letter was brief, written after I had a meltdown when he was away for a wkend on business. He left the day after my return home from my sister's. He had promised to write to me every day on his return. This letter came on his 3rd day back, the last paragraph promised more to come. Days went by and nothing was forthcoming that I could see. Another 2 day work trip and our daughter's Bday celebration marked more time as I waited for him to fulfill his promise.

We were booked on a 5 day trip to Hawaii at the end of July. His 2nd letter to me, revealing some details of his A, was written the day before our flight... while I was doing laundry and packing. I saw him writing at the DR table. I stayed in other parts of the house to not disturb him.

We had a quiet dinner. He poured us each a glass of wine. But no mention of the letter. We went to bed and I couldn't control myself any longer. I asked about the letter. He told me it was done. Did I want it? I asked if he wanted me to have it. Or if I was to wonder about it while we were away. He said something about being awake all night anyway so I got the letter from the DR. I read it and re-read it as tears rolled down my cheeks. I wished he'd lied and told me he hadn't finished it instead of letting me read it then. He fell asleep as I sat there in tears.

WARNING: VENT BREWING...
My H has only recently acknowledged that his 3 yr online EA was wrong and just as hurtful to me as the PA of a family member that we found out about due to their recent divorce... because his A was 'only online'. It didn't matter that OW is an employee of his who he saw on a regular basis during the busy season and dealt with at her other job which is in the same field. He took her to lunch or drove her home or to do errands while I thought he was working. He still denies any physical involvement!
He doesn't count the 2 NY's eve/day/wkends spent with OW & her family and friends instead of with me as doing anything wrong. The 1st time I was out of town - a Christmas gift so I could spend my sister's 50th Bday with her but I can't help but think now it was a way for him to try to make the EA physical. He denies this... tells me they drank too much and that he was disgusted by their behaviour. Long story - She is someone who he knew I didn't approve of - there is too much to explain in that regard. The EA continued for another year. The following NY he asked if I minded if he went ice fishing with some business acquaintances he'd met earlier that fall as it was the only time they could get away. I felt guilty depriving him of a chance to relax and spent NYs alone again. I now know that he went fishing, but with OW & some of the previous NYs participants. This is especially hurtful as we met on NYs eve and this has been our special time for 30 yrs before he chose to betray me via online gaming.

According to my FWH, living 2 lives, being able to compartmentalize his life with me our young adult offspring in one box and his hours online with OW in another was just a fantasy escape from the day's stress. He didn't plan the A. He wasn't doing anything wrong. But online gaming turned very quickly into lustful sexy chats and private emails with somebody he knew IRL although she was in our former home city when it started.

Did I mention that OW has the same first name as me? Just one more twist of the knife as far as I'm concerned. I suspected nothing... even encouraged him to find a way to relax after work. I trusted him fully. He worked long hours and we had no social life to speak of due to this and the travel required by his company. I was glad to know he'd found a way to relieve stress. LOL... Love is blind... I was blind-sided!

So now I am back at home... alone with my thoughts and SI... while he sails home from our island paradise trip with our Navy son and spends a few days visiting my family when they get to home port. Email and phone calls are limited while they are at sea. I admire my new D-I-L even more as I get a taste of her life for the past 4 mos.

FWH has no idea that I am experiencing the horrors of Dday all over again. I have now way to tell him. I can't sleep. When I do fall asleep, I have strange disconnected dreams. My Dr. is away but I had my meds reviewed before our trip so I should be able to cope better than this. I know that drugs and alcohol are not the answer but I am very tempted to drink myself to oblivion. Don't worry. I won't. But I really wish I could talk to someone who understands what I'm going through.

Thanks for listening. I'm the new forum hog. {{{LTA}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsuol, I wish I could stay up and hold your hand all night long. I too have no one in real life to hug or hold (well, FnF, we always have a good cry together). I can't imagine having so much time apart, even though I found it much more peaceful when he is away. I do agree the timing of the letter was completely wrong. But it's done now, no more "what if's" ok? Figure out how you feel about the information and feel it, process it.

When they try this shit, just laugh. Laugh because you recognize it for what it is. Laugh as if they are children and you can see them trying to sneak something in and it makes you giggle inside.

Another SI friend of mine says to let the crap wash over you. Think of his words as water and just let it flow off you like you were impervious to the stuff. Sometimes I visualize myself in a damn waterfall and I'm getting soaked, but sometimes it works. I try very hard to take a minute and actually listen to what he's telling me. I find a blank stare is usually the best way to end conversations going off into lala land.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((LostSoul)))))

WE understand. WE are here for you to vent away- the last thing you are is a board "hog"

So after getting "The" letter from your H you still feel that you haven't gotten the complete truth? That must be so very frustrating. I emphasized over and over to my H (who thought too many details would just "open to many scabs") that before I could truly start to heal, I had to know what I was healing from. Hmm... could you get him in for a polygraph? I know some others have done this on SI. I can't think of any other way to get out the truth about an A- especially if it was like my H where it all occurred away on "business" with no witnesses.....

Well, I can't really be telling ya not to open that bottle of wine, because after dday I was drinking nightly for months. H thought I had turned into an alcoholic (I'm not kidding!) ...It doesn't make things any better, though, I can tell you that.

I wish there were confidential support groups IRL for those of us affected by infidelity. But at least you found this Board.

I can't remember, are you in IC? That helped me a lot in the beginning. Having someone to talk to that was nonjudgmental and I knew for certain would keep the confidence.

Vent away, friend, you are not alone.

Hugs,
HB

P.S. I'm giving my H some extra kudos tonight.. thanks for sharing each of your experience with your Hs and the movie/media stuff. I guess sometimes I am too hard on the guy (I don't admit that often )


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.


((((((lostsoul))))))

There are many of us here alone IRL...we will be alone together, ok?

Are you in IC/MC?
If yes, is your MC showing him that this behaviour is just not acceptable.

Your dday was over a year ago? And you are still sifting through the sand for information! grrr

I am going to be quick as its time for work.

1. Dont drink. Find another way to get through this. I love reading.What do you like that could keep you distracted? I am also a big propagator of tapping.

2. V V Gentle 2x4
Re writing to you everyday. Was this a practical idea? Is he the type to do so? If not, going forward, try to avoid sitches that set you both up. KWIM? Would a postcard with a short msg been more his style.

3.Your H is taking the piss, IMHO.
He is still living in his fogland, and you are waiting around anxiously for his crumbs, and its driving you nuts. That man needs to be kicked out into the clear, hard and fast. Its comfortable where he is, and its going to take, IMHO, firm, no-nonsense action which you are willing to stand by, to get him out.
USe this time now, to think through what you want and how you are going to achieve it.

3. Did he recently break NC with OW? What are the consequences of that?

LostSoul, you are going to have be the strong one. Its a pity that your H didnt step up to the plate by himself, but as you prob read here, not many ours do either.

5. You have the same name as OW. Ouch.
And it was an EA?
There is something significant in that, I think.
Could it be that when he saw her IRL, she became herself, and not you, and thats why he couldnt make it a PA?

I also wish I could give you a big hug IRL, LostS.

Please look after yourself.Pretend you are the most special guest you have ever had, and that you need to be treated the VIP way.Cook yourself lovely meals, dress up nice, get your hair done, get out of the house, and dont come back till the afternoon.

Lots and lots of hugs.

((((((Lostsoul)))))

Last word:
I recently heard an old childhood fav song of mine.

Everybody's searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone who fulfilled my needs
A lonely place to be
And so I learned to depend on me

I found the greatest love of all
Inside of me
The greatest love of all
Is easy to achieve
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all

Having said that, you guys are my heros.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Lostsoul))))) It must be so hard to be in that place and not even be able to talk to him. I have to say, i feel as lonely as you all. I have only told one couple irl....and they were friends of H before we knew each other. They are our daughters godparents. I felt forced to tell them /c she had been a bit inappropriate i thought (although her husband was aware). Anyway, it has worked out as this summer they watch the kids when we go to MC as it is hard to find an excuse as to where we are both going midday. But I have not really been able to talk to her about it. And the husband will continue to make inappropriate comments about affairs and cheating and such...not cruel, just oblivious. So I feel very alone. I wish I could be there with you to share a glass of wine and just cry.

Have you tried a journal. Sounds dumb, but for some reason it helps relieve my anxiety. Out of me and on the page or something.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsoul, how are you holding up?

SoL, and whoever else is feeling lonely:

How about joining me on the verandah/porch? The sun is setting ever so slowly, the beach is deserted except for Ukg who is still dipping her long legs. We are all lying down on the loungers, sipping a cocktail (or a mocktail in my case),and just chatting. Nothing too hectic. Just enjoying each others company, and most of all feeling safe and free, knowing we dont need to explain ourselves to each other. We are all accepted and loved.

(((((((tribe)))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Ladies!!!

Long Time No See

Hope everyone is doing well. And BTW, how the hell are you??? Please let me know.

Has anyone found any quick sure cure for the LTA?? Not that I'm having a rough go, but I'd still try whatever cure you may have found.

My world is still better than before. Mr FSA is still working away but I have been able to go and stay with him for the most part of this last month. But now it's time to settle down and get the kids ready for school. I have thoroughly enjoyed staying away from home. I mentioned a while back that H's new job is close to the beach and me and the kids have had a blast this summer going swimming and sunning. I've been home almost a week now and my house is actually improving after all this time. I just might find the energy to get it whipped into shape after the kids get out of the house and go to school. It has just been such a positive thing for me to have changes in our lives. Just the change of jobs and environment really helped me. It helped to break the endless cycle that I was in. I still have a few rough spots, but nothing like in the past.

I think of ya'll often and wish all the best to ya'll.

Check back in later.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostsuol. Oh my, oh my. Avoiding big time, isn't he? He is not facing up to things, standing up to the plate, taking his turn on stage, whatever. By putting things off, they only fester and cause resentment. He has to bite the bullet or watch the poison spread through the veins.

I don’t know what you can give as an ultimatum. Or even if there should be. An affair is a clandestine relationship that feeds itself on secrecy and lies. He kept this relationship from you deliberately. He has to understand that the TRUST is gone and with it respect, reliability, your sense of his commitment to you (looking elsewhere), loyalty, your boundaries and, above all, honesty within the marriage. He LIED to you. He LIED to keep a secret. He LIED to nurture a relationship outside of the marriage. Whether or not sex was involved is almost irrelevant because you can bet that he thought about it.

He has to understand that for a woman it is the emotional side that is difficult to deal with. A lot of women can say “blokes can’t keep their dicks in their trousers”, tut about their menfolk and say the sex doesn’t mean anything – as long as he doesn’t fall in love. A lot of men would say “she’s a flirt leading men on” and say it doesn’t mean anything – as long as she doesn’t have sex with them. Those are the deal busters. I’m not sure how you could say it or frame it, but it sounds as though that is what he needs to hear. He would be devastated if you had had sex with another man (his failure) and you are understandably devastated by his emotional diversion (your abandonment). And so I’m referring to that book again (apart from Men are from Mars, old stuff but still true) Why Women Talk and Men Walk.

I would agree with LostH that if your H is not the type to put pen to paper, don’t expect too much and certainly not daily or even weekly epistles. You want something that has been properly thought about, and a short but honest one is better than long rambling crap, the likes of which my FWH … well, you kwim.

Have you tried a journal. Sounds dumb, but for some reason it helps relieve my anxiety. Out of me and on the page or something.

If he can’t write, then write for youself. Just had a thought. Go through the list and put your own answers in and say that unless he refutes them or writes his own, you will assume you have guessed all correctly. Hmm. Dwell on it. Might do something, what do you think?

Hugs ((((((((lostsuol))))))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feeling so alone, you sounds so good! I'm so glad the change of environment has been such a blessing for you.

Lh, I will happily join you! it sounds like a lovely time.Gosh, to not have to explain myself or put on a false front. Just to e myself and feel accepted and loved What a lovely vision.

Went to MC today. Holy smokes. It was heated. Interestingly enough, a the end H counselor said he was so glad to see both of us angry. That it was the first time we were really angry and he was almost glad to see it. that H is often just so shruggish about everything that it is nice to see him atleast caring a bit more.

As much as I wanted to be told I was right and he was wrong, that did not happen. I should have known that. They are counselors after all. At one point H said so I you think I'm wrong and they said no, it's not about that. It's about intentions and then about how the other person perceived what you said ad what you could do different next time. They made us each pretend to be the other and say how we feel. It was pretty clear that it was sooo inappropriate for him to go, but they never said it straight out. Unfortunately, he probably needs it said straight out.

It did get me to see that his intentions were not bad. He thought he was doing the right thing by asking me. We talked a lot about what he would do different. About how his environment at work is really conducive to this younger group hanging out and partying and he is not in that position anymore. That next time he needs to talk to me in an adult conversation one-on-one. To invite me right off the bat next time in that situation.

Honestly, I didn't feel that we resolved anything. it was so , so tense. I kept saying I didn't know how to move on from here and they kept saying, but you are. Just doing all this talking is moving on.trying to see how the other felt and why they acted in a certain way is moving on.

We ran over so she has to call me to make the next appointment. We said nothing coming out. H said something about ho that was fun and then e just grabbed my hand and held it all the way to the car. I was just quiet. So much to think about. I didn't even write half of it here.

They are good counselors an I understand what they were trying to do. Just so hard when you feel so right and he feels so right and you get to this inpass. I am frustrated and hurt.

He's at school now. I imagine we will talk at some point. I don't even feel up to it, I am just so emotionally drained. Thanks for all the support and letting me vent.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
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