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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talk to your DS about this, and help me deal with his resentment. Think of strategies to help him cope. I cant think of one right now,but I am sure there must be, even if its one s to make him feel better about himself when he is doing these tasks.

Do you think talking to H would help? You are the mother; your job is to protect your kids.What a shame it has to be from their parent

DS and I have talked many times about strategy and why his father acts the way he does. DS knows all about the affairs. He doesn't know everything, obviously, neither do I, but enough that he totally lost respect for the man and sees the hypocracy in his words and actions. That makes it so much harder for him.

As for me, the protecting of my kids is an issue. I didn't when they were little. I let H do something once that still sends shivers down my spine. Afterward I told him I'd kill him if he ever touched them again. So he switched to verbal abuse and demeaning.

I'd make excuses "Oh daddy's just had a bad day, he didn't mean that." or "You know it's just his way... he loves you." I feel like such an idiot for being like that.

DS actually told his father later at a quiet moment, that he knows he'd do anything for him if he would just ask rather than demand, like he has the right to boss him around because he's younger than him or "that's what he was born for". He says he thinks he got through.

Later that night we talked and I said "you know he's not going to say he's sorry, right?" He said he understood that but he bought water ice on the way home from his estimate and kidded him a little about being his "boy". He says he knows his father knows he was wrong, but has a problem admitting it. Nothing he can do at this time.

But he did say not to plan on him coming home after he finishes school... that he'll be looking for an apartment immediately.

So this morning the news about John Edwards broke on all stations here. I already had read everything and seen the interview last night. As soon as the news anchor said 'extra marital affair', H changed the channel. And I know it wasn't for "my" benefit... just that he didn't want me triggering because it would "ruin his day."


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"you know he's not going to say he's sorry, right?"

A little word that can do so much when itís sincerely meant. He should apologise and itís a shame he canít or wonít. Iím sorry this has led to DS looking for an apartment and itís sad that your H cannot see what his attitude does to others Ė in the end, they just donít want to know. And itís only your H who loses out. Such a shame.

Weíve had the John Edwards thing in the news here too. You would have thought that they would have learned by now Ė donít go into politics if you canít keep it in your pants. There are no excuses. It is their inflated narcissistic egos telling them they can and that they will be the ones who are so clever and the mistress so loyal and discreet that no one will find out. (Oh, hang on, Iíve got one of those types here Ö. )

H and I were down at the gym this morning. H left after 40min and I carried on with my session. The receptionist came in and said he had phoned that he was coming back with an umbrella for me as it was now pouring with rain. So he got soaked (more than he already was with sweat) and came back for me so I wouldnít get soaked. Which was really rather sweet.

Oh (((((LostH))))) I just donít get it that your H canít stand up for you. What does he mean "fail"? How can supporting you be seen in any way as failing? Yet he's always on the sidelines unless it is to join in the beating up. Now that's failure. Man, does he have some chronic self esteem issues. Keep up those defences against the relations. Take no shit!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:39 AM, August 9th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That umbrella trick was very sweet and thoughtful. Amazing what they can do when they want to!!

(((Weepy))) Your husband, every thing you say about him, has my dad written all over rit. Everyone loved him, very charming and fun. Yet at home, behind closed doors, a grumpy miserable asshole. Never said he was sorry for anything he ever did. I am so sorry for you to have to live with that. Do you think people can change? I don't know, sometimes I say yes and sometimes I say no.

(((LH)))) I can't believe he said that to you. I very strongly feel that H had the affair, he needs to be the one trying to hold this together and be the positive one b/c I sure as hell can't be.

I have been in a slow down spiral the last few days. maybe it's from seeing her picture? I don't know. Last night I cried and cried for the second time. The night before I had a good friend come over for hours and hours. At the end she started talking about other friends of hers who's husbands had an affair. At one point she turned to me and said "Kat, can you imagine if you r H had an affair and you stayed?". I felt the wind knocked out of me.

Thankfully she left son after and when H asked what was wrong I lost it. He was comforting but this edge of impatience, like get the hell over it. Then last night just still having a hard time and same thing and when I told him about that impatience he got defensive and said yeah, I want you to get over it. You want you to get over it. But I understand that's not happening yet.

I think I want him to be falling all over me like in the beginning, trying to make it better. I feel like I am back to the beginning with the whole bowling party with work friends thing and it's tearing me apart.

I'm sorry, I'm just a mess. Plus, after holding me for a couple minutes he needs to go get something to eat. So he goes downstairs and gets on the computer for 3 hours. I hate that he is on it so much. i monitor it all though and nothing fishy, but he would rather do that while his wife is upstairs crying. Kills me.

To top it off, dd best friend was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes. Her second friend to get diagnosed, both 9 years old. My H has juvenile diabetes and it is horrible to the nth degree. I hate it. So to know she will leave with that forever just breaks my heart, brings all the horrible 911 calls back to the forefront.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick note beofre I rush off to supper with Sil and co.

SOLOST
Listen to me.
Some times, H cant be there for us,they just cant cos they have their own crap going on;they are too selfish, etc.

We cant wait for them to get their stuff together...we will drown. THIS is where you need to dig really deep inside and bring up your strength. I know it would be just great if H could be there the way we want, but I learnt the hard way, that when he cant, I have to help myself, that I cant let ME down, KWIM?

So have yoruself a good cry,cry it all out, have a little nap if you want. When you wake up, wash up, and do something for you.Tell him he has the kids for the rest of the day, and I mean he does EVRYTHING for them, and dont you lift a finger. Then you do what you need to for yoruself. For me its tea and biscuits under the duvet with a book. Nurture yourself SoL. Be kind to you. Treat you the way you would want him to treat you.

(((((SoL))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I soooo needed that kick in the pants. Thank you, sincerely. I feel myself simply drowning in the self pity. I want this super hero to come hold me and say all the right things and do all the right things. He's not coming. H is trying, but he is not capable of being all I need.

I just finished completely cleaning my 7 year olds room. It was loooong overdue. I feel good. I am going to have a cup of tea and a book and just relax. He is starting to build our deck so I'll send the kids out with him to 'help'.

My expectations are just never met and the only one it's hurting is me. He only has one weekend off a month (he only works Friday, sat, sun). So I expect him to want to plan fun things for us for that weekend, to want to spend time with me. And he does. We'll go out to dinner tonight and maybe hang out a bit. But it's never enough, it's never what I had in mind. And yet if I plan it, I am unhappy b/c it wasn't his idea. Sometimes I think I am setting up not only him to fail, but also myself to be failed.

Thank you Lost Heart, I knew there was something drawing me back here to check messages.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH,
Quick note beofre I rush off to supper with Sil and co.

May the force be with you, sweet LH. Sending you all the strength you need to get through the visit- and just think how happy it will be at the end when they are gone and you don't have to do this again for awhile

SoLost, good advice here- a constant theme. You have to concentrate on what you need to heal from the LTA- and we can not rely on our H's for that- sometimes they are not capable- sometimes it is just us having to find our way back to being true to ourselves outside of the M. Even when in R, I now truly believe this is part of a healthy M and one that I know was missing from mine before. I gave and gave and never got back- never again.

Hugs,
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, August 9th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was trying to get through to my DD the other night because she still hasn't written her thank you notes from her graduation party. She Now has to do them before she leaves for her trip or her father will see that she doesn't leave the house. Told him "good luck with that."

So I wrote something that I told my family applies to ALL of us and DD should use it as a format for doing her cards....

Growth, Maturity....whatever you want to call it... doesn't come without some pain of introspection. If you don't KNOW yourself, you'll never KNOW anyone else. No one said doing the right thing was always easy.

If you make a mistake, make an error in judgement, hurt someone's feelings or in general do something wrong (and you know you know when you have)

#1 Admit it without blaming, without justifying, just own it.

#2 Acknowledge the damage your words or actions have caused

#3 Apologize SINCERELY

#4 Make amends (if that's even possible)

#5 Correct it - do something to right the wrong

#6 Never, Ever do it again.


Example:

Admit: "Yes I was late for dinner. I stopped for a drink with the guys after work. My fault, I should have called."

Acknowledge: "It's obvious you went through a lot of trouble to have dinner ready for me when I came in the door. And you must have been worried when I didn't show up on time."

Apologize: "I'm sorry. I was thoughtless. I should have called you."

Make it right: "Here, let me clean up for you and I will take you out to dinner to make up for it."

Fix the behavior: "I promise I will call you any time I think I'm going to be late."

AND THEN DO IT !!!!!!

Remember, I wrote this as an example for my daughter. See at this late date, I don't think a simple "thank you" note is sufficient.

Of course H tried to put the blame on me.... I should have MADE her do it. Uh, did you check they were done, Einstein? So he TOLD her they would be done before she left next Sunday. Yeah, we'll see. Muttering under my breath as I leave the room. "You think you can do a better job than me raising them? Be my fucking guest."

It's not just the thank you notes, it's a girl who's been calling her that she hasn't returned the calls. It's the employer she interviewed with who called to find out if she was interested in the job... she hasn't called them back to say yes or no either.

I keep thinking she's still young enough that she doesn't have to turn out completely like her father even though she's headed that way.

My IC said to back off and let her fall on her face. I tried, but she has this Midas touch. Even her passport showed up in less than a week. It would have taken anyone else a month to get it.

How do you let someone suffer the consequences of their stupidity if there are never any consequences???? When everything just "works out" for them, like my husband. What was his big consequence???

Yeah, I know. He has to live with himself. But when you're someone who can shut out everything they SHOULD feel or never actually FEEL it, then what's the difference?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

Yep, I am still here and smiling.

So the evening went well enough. His uncle and aunt were impressed that I could pull together a 4 course dinner in under 3 hours incl grocery shopping. DS was a great help and it helped me see him in a different way. Lately, actually the last year, he has become very grumpy and moody,and we just cant relate to each other anymore (he's 12.5 years old); we had a fantastic relationship before we came here, and that went downhill after H moved in permanently.

I know he is (like all of us)trying to adjust to a new reality, as well as the stresses of the past 2 years and throw in the hormones...

So it was enjoyable last night just the 2 of us, beating the clock for dinner.

SIL was polite as was I. And that was that. Just today to get through,then she returns in a week but I dont know how long for, or where she is going to live then. H told me that he will have to entertain her then, and I hope, that he doesnt see last night's performance as me being all better now,and things go back to normal.

I looked at her and felt sorry for her (but not too much). She has 2 divorces behind her, she came in from a weeks holiday in Turkey with a "friend" (she just got D'd 5 months ago), she left her 2 kids alone behind in Au(they are 16 and 17 but yikes!)and she had this air of desperation around her (too tight clothes, too much makeup, too many blonde highlights)and all she spoke about was herself, even when she spoke about her kids, its about her, "My DS has a GSOH, just like me. HE is so witty, just like me".

To think that I had loved her like a sister once. I sincerely hope that her "friend" is not married already.

Pssst HB! Thanks.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:27 AM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So he got soaked (more than he already was with sweat) and came back for me so I wouldnít get soaked

Awwww Ukg! Your knight in dripping lycra!
Very thoughtful, Mr Ukg.

***
Weepy,

I'd make excuses "Oh daddy's just had a bad day, he didn't mean that." or "You know it's just his way... he loves you." I feel like such an idiot for being like that.

Then dont, Weepy.
Cos I think that trivialises or justifies what your H is doing. People who love each other dont treat each other that way. I used to think that it was ok to be treated that way (my parents), so when H did different but similar, I thought the same too. KWIM?
At least you dont justify it with,"if you just listened and acted faster; or dont argue, just do it and you wont get hurt; do it right the first time and you wnt get in trouble " like my parents did.

Its not enough that you give him a sympathetic ear, Weepy. I know I am coming hard on you, I guess I see so much of my life reflected in your posts and I wish that someone had told my mum this a long time ago.

(((((Weepy))))))

You cant change your H, that we know. I wonder how better you can help DS cope? He sounds like a wonderful sweet, thoughtful young man.

***
SoLost, I so wanted to reach out, and hug you tight last night.

You have had a turmultous 2 weeks. And it can be so overwhelming when you throw in the other non-M stuff.

Now I am going to tell you something (I am a bit of a bossyboots this weekendm arent I )that my IC told me, and i think will relate to you as well.

One of my biggest challenges in getting through this, is to learn to love me. I have a sneaky feeling that you have the same challenge. My greatest foe is not H or OW or SILs or saddlebags - it is me.

It may be early days for you now, but at least give it a thought.

Your H has been proven to be a selfish SOB. He is not going to turn into your hero overnight or over a year or 3. And you are not going to wait for him to do so whilst you sink.

You are going to learn to paddle by yourself.You are going to learn to fall in love with you.

I wrote this some time ago, about how my H and I both loved him in the M; now we are going to learn how to love me.

Can you think of a list of things that you would like to happen to you when you are really down? How many of those can you do for yourself? I know you would prefer for him to do it (and by all means, share it with him if you can, so he at least knows what to do if he is able to the nxt time). The next time you feel yourself sinking, pull out the list and choose a way to nurture you. ANd then do it.

Last word, re the friend who visited for hours and hours...did you enjoy her company? Is that why her stay was so long, or was it cos you didnt know how to make her go away? Sometimes friends drain us more, and that is ok if we are strong, but when we are running on low, we need to conserve what little we have for ourselves and our babies, KWIM?

***
To the Tribe (an old fav):

"Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born."

-Anais Nin-


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH, I am so glad you survived the dinner, although the ethought of another must just make you want to scream. Did you tell Mr LH that all is not better just because you put on a happy face or does he already know?

Weepy, how long overdue are the thank yous? She's a teenager right? At this point I would have her bang out some generic thank yous and move on. I imagine the task overwhelmed her. I would offer to write the envelopes while she wrote the card and put stamps on and such but we all know I have the caregiver role and will probably be in therapy for the rest of my life trying to change that instinct so don't do that.

On the friend, she always stays forever and has three kids and all 5 kids play the entire time without a fuss and literally scream when they see each other and cry when they have to leave. So it really is fine. We use to be neighbors and it outside drinking margaritas for hours while the kids played. The only hard part i her not knowing about the affair. And she is black and white and would leave, end of discussion. So I couldn't handle those opinions. And she thinks H is great.

So I tried to do what LH said. I tried to be with myself and all that. But you know what, LH? I sat her for ten full minutes after reading your post and just thought. I don't love myself. All the things that are becoming obstacles are about me. I'm too fa, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not fun enough, he clearing thought she was more of everything or he wouldn't have gone for her. In reality, I know that I am pretty and fun and smart and interesting. My brain just won't let me process that during times of stress.

So I did have a cup of tea and sat with a goo book. But I didn't let go of my expectations. It's his one weekend off this month. I cleaned all day and he worked on the deck. So I figured we'd go out to dinner and then hang out the rest of the night. I wanted him to plan something for us (even just a rented movie) but that didn't happen.

So we get home and he tells the kids they can watch tv on the big screen and he goes and studies after trying to studying in there with us and being too distracted. After a while he gets on the computer. Says he's taking a break. Kids have to go to bed and guess who does that? Yup, me as usual. Guess he was done parenting for the night. Around midnight he comes in to watch tv with me and holds my hand and all that nonsense. Which is what IU wanted all night but now I'm upset that he's doing it b/c he knows I'm mad and such. It's terrible circle and I suspect I need a 2X4 over the head. How do you change expectations though?


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But you know what, LH? I sat her for ten full minutes after reading your post and just thought. I don't love myself. All the things that are becoming obstacles are about me. I'm too fa, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not fun enough, he clearing thought she was more of everything or he wouldn't have gone for her. In reality, I know that I am pretty and fun and smart and interesting. My brain just won't let me process that during times of stress.

SoLost, many of us here fight this battle often too. For me, its a daily one.Then again I started the M with pretty rotten self esteem anyway, so..

Our self esteems take a HUGE knock after a LTA dday, whether we were strong or not before.And its quite a task trying to rebuild it.
When you have a H who is not consistent in his care and attention and love, of course this would make this task much more challenging.

You know whats the good thing about you finally knowing what OW looks like? Its that you can now take her off that pedastal...you know the one where she is prettier, thinner, funnier, wittier, better in bed,etc.

You can seefor yourself that she is not all that and she is DEFINETLY not worth losing you over. NOBODY is.
She is what she is what they all are..."available" and willing to cross a line, irrespective of the consequences.

Enough of her.

I am thinking about your friend.Many would have said (and still do)that I am a black and white person. I have always been quite vocal about infidelity, and women abuse/suppression. Yeah me.

So imagine the shock my friends experienced when I told them that I want to give R a try.

What I am trying to say is that your friend might just be the one you need IRL. She might not agree with your decision to stay with H, but she can still offer support and a shoulder, cant she? And imagine the relief of having someone IRL with whom you dont have to pretend!
Just an idea.

Re H's parenting:
I love timetables and rules.
H and I take turns now to put the kids to bed. If I do the girls, then he spends some time with DS, and vice versa.That way we both get to spend time with all the kids, but also one doesnt feel overwhelmed. Want to try it out on H?I know that this is his one weekend off, but spending time with your kids is not a punishment. They grow so fast and pretty soon wont need this routine.He should rather embrace the time that he has been gifted.

Finally, about giving up expectations...

I am prob the wrong one to even comment on this, as I still struggle with this.
Sometimes H comes through, soemtimes he doesnt. There is no consistency or guarantees.

What does help soemtimes is me laying it out, for eg. telling H that he is in charge of the kids for the day/night for everything. The catch is that I dont correct or challenge him on anything, so if he wants to give them noodles for breakfast,lunch and dinner, then so be it.

So translating to your scene last night, could you have told H that you wanted him to plan the evening, that he should also factor in some time with you AFTER he puts the kids to sleep? Yes, it wont be a surprise, and might seem a bit coerced and scripted at first, but what would you rather be? Unsurprised but getting what you want, or ...nothing.

The more this happens, the more natural it will become. He will get better at anticipating your needs, SoL, and you will get better at vocalising them.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much LH! Your advice to SoLost "Treat you the way you would want him to treat you." was spot on for me too. I've been struggling with thinking along the same lines as SoL posted and could respond exactly the same.
"I soooo needed that kick in the pants. Thank you, sincerely. I feel myself simply drowning in the self pity."
If I had kids at home to deal with as well, I'd hate to think about the parent I'd be. LH... Your tips in that regard sound good to me... for any parents, dealing with infidelity or not. Communication about expectations is important in any marriage, imho. I hope I can share this knowledge to my 3 sets of 'newlyweds' if the need arises.

Weepy, I forgot to reply about the pie. Yes, shoofly pie is the name I couldn't remember. I have a major sweet tooth that I don't give in to very often or I'd weight 300 lbs. I gave in on each of the trips we made to PA though. The other treat we bought was Jalapeno jelly unlike any available here. Oh, the memory makes me want to make a trip East asap!

we stopped the newspaper before our trip and haven't resumed delivery so I don't know much about John Edwards' situation but I'm glad I'm not having it in my face at any rate. Actually the big news here lately concerns a young man's death on a Greyhound bus and a protest at his funeral (by some US Baptist church). I am avoiding the news, CBC, CTV, CNN etc. I'm depressed enough as it is.

{{{LTA tribe}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy, how long overdue are the thank yous? She's a teenager right? At this point I would have her bang out some generic thank yous and move on. I imagine the task overwhelmed her. I would offer to write the envelopes while she wrote the card and put stamps on and such but we all know I have the caregiver role and will probably be in therapy for the rest of my life trying to change that instinct so don't do that.

She's 23 this Friday. No teen. She's been taught. She's just like her father... an overwhelming job (too fucking bad... she could have done 2 a nite and been done with it). I just took the cards up to her room and told her to write them and distribute the family ones at dinner tonight. When I went up to look and see how she's doing... she's asleep.

Next time someone asks me what she wants for her birthday or Christmas, I'm going to say give her nothing, she obviously doesn't have a grateful bone in her body.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, yeah, 23 and she should know better. Sometimes we are fighting their example with our example and you just pray the right one wins out.

LH, some amazing advise. It can be so hard to put in to practice though. And to be honest and fair, he is a very involved dad and has been even through the affair. We are going to talk about this bedtime thing tonight though. He goes to kung fu 3 nights a week and works 3 nights a week and I am sick of doing the bedtime thing.

But for me to tell him what to do....I sooo struggle with this. Something in me then feels like it's not sincere. Like if I have to tell you to say blah blah blah then I don't believe you mean it. If I have to tell you to plan a night then you didn't really want to. My therapists always laughs when I say that and asks how it's working for me. I get it intellectually but my heart can't differentiate. I am working on it.

A friend called today Dan asked him to watch their cats. These are the two only people that know about the affair. What I realized they don't know is that he took her to their house last time he watched the cats a year ago. She met him there and he says they didn't have sex but I am skeptical and I know they did a bunch else. So the mention of cats and had to leave the room. H came up afterwards ad said I saw the look you gave me about the cats. Do you want to come with me every time?

It was helpful that he 'got it' and was trying to make it better. I told him no, it wasn't about me thinking he was going to do something. Neither was the bowling party. It was about having a waterfall of all those emotions coming dumping bakc on me about all the times when he did do something. We were calm and I think he understood, but that was all we said about it.

This roller coaster sucks. I go from thinking I am handling things well to just feeling overwhelmed and almost panicky. I took a xanax last night (I have only done that once since dday if that gives you any baseline) b/c I just couldn't handle feeling it all anymore. I just pray this crap gets better as fast as it got worse.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsoul, you are very welcome.

I'm depressed enough as it is

Mmmmm...
I was hoping you would find some indignation or even better, anger. Sometimes the energy we get from anger, helps move us to the next step, KWIM? Of course, you dont take it to the extreme like some people ( ).

***
So what I have been dreading has happened. Earlier on H told me about the chat he had with SIL on their 2 hour trip alone his morning. She asked him why she couldnt stay with us, and he told her that I dont like her, that acc to me, I had trusted her, and she had betrayed me by the things she said and did(taking his side). She said that she didnt see it that way. No way!

Then she asked him how our M was. This is the part that has so disappointed me, and I am feeling quite sad.

He told her that our relationship was unstable, that one minute we were close and the next we were poles apart; that the M was so hectic and you never know where you stood as we were up and down all the time. When she asked why he stayed, he said that he wanted to put things right, and that it was hard work, and it had to be done. She said (naturally)that she would not go through all this, and would end it.

I asked him why did he portray us so badly? Why did he give her such a distorted view? Why did he not say anything positive about us?
He said that he gave her part of the truth cos thats what he wanted to. He told her what he wanted her to know. That he is allowed to vent and give a POV, same as I do here or to my sisters.

I am so so disappointed in him. This is very similar to what he told her just after dday. I am wondering why he has done this? What is he getting from this? And why tell me? He could have lied or not been so direct, but he didnt (which is agood thing). He wanted to hurt me. And he did.

The unfortunate part is that he has hurt us all.
I told him later that I want him to cancel the house; that I think that we should go our separate ways come October.

I am losing what little faith I have, Tribe. I am trying not to react out of anger and hurt. He was right. He cant protect us. He will put himself and his needs ahead of ours.

Oldies, am I expecting too much from him at this stage? Am I being too harsh?

I dont think I am.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((LH)))))

I can't remember how far you are out from dday and how long your H has been in IC....
But I do understand him wanting to speak openly with family. Now, I see somepositive in his reaction (but only you know for sure since I am an outsider looking in based on what you posted).... I see that he told his Sis that he needs to set things right. In some small form that is his taking responsibility- and not blaming you or your M. Now where i would be dissappointed is that he had a golden opportunity to set herstraight on how devestating the impact of the LTA was. But maybe that wasn't in his make-up yet at this stage.

I can tell you that with my H it took several months of intense therapy before I saw any change at all- it was quite depressing early on. But he was committed to the M and making the changes. Is it possible that your H gave that same indication to your SIL and is that a small step in the right direction?

One thing I know- even with setting up healthy boundaries- it is still very hard for my H to deal with my ILs. I am almost never happy with how he handles things- satisfactory at best. But that is still having come a lot farther than predday. Dealing within families is tricky. Some Hs are conflict avoiders. Now, I'd love to hear that your H told her something like: "well, actually I am lucky she stayed with me after what I did, and I will give her all the time she needs." But rarely are our Hs great in the communication department, right?

Your H was honest- he was describing the "roller coaster" that occurs after the LTA aftermath. My H could have said the same about me- hot and cold for quite some time. It's called healing and it doesn't happen over night and it doesn't happen without hard work on both sides- bs&ws.

Hang in there, LH,
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, HB.

We are 2 years past dday#1 and 1y 10months past dday#2. H has been in IC for awhile now.

I dont expect him to wax lyrical about how great it is to have stayed. HOwever, I did epxect him to NOT make things to be that bad, cos they are not. We are years away from where we were 2 years ago. We are closer now than we have ever been.Our lives are settling down, and its not perfect, but we are getting there. Our lives are not dominated by the LTAs. In fact, I just realised 2 nights ago that his bday had passed and I hadnt even checked the keylogger to see if "anyone" remembered.
He knows that SIL is not a friend of the family. She has been responsible twice before for bringing us to the brink of D, through her "advice" and stirring.
HE in fact actually admitted that he only told her part of the truth, cos "thats what he wanted her to know".

We seem to be ok and doing well, until we hit a challenge, more often than not, in the form of another person, then we collapse.Which makes me think that we are not doing that well, that maybe I am more optimistic and positive than I ought to be.

Sorry, HB. Not telling ye off..just thinking out loud.

Is it feasible to expect H to be further out just because I am?

Is the way he portrayed our M to SIL the way he feels deep down? Or is this his pity mode, seeking out support from a female against me, a pattern he has held throughout the M, even as recently with my mum?
And then, if so, what does it mean?

My IC is away for 3 weeks. On Tuesday we leave for Scotland. The kids are so excited and we will have a darn good time,even tho the weather is going to be sucky.

I am not even angry, tho that shoudl kick in later.
I am just so so so disappointed in him. He let us down.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We seem to be ok and doing well, until we hit a challenge, more often than not, in the form of another person, then we collapse.Which makes me think that we are not doing that well, that maybe I am more optimistic and positive than I ought to be.

Our MCs just talked about this. A marriage is so fragile after a lta especially that any bump seems massive compared to how that bump would affect a solid marriage.

I think it was highly insensitive of him to tell you about the conversation verbatim. maybe he needed some pity or some support but to hurt you in the process is inexcusable. He's done that a few times lately.

I think you need to take a deep breath Adan simply breathe. Take your own advise and take care of yourself. What I read from his comments is that he feels immensely insecure about the relationship and has no idea where he stands. Good, he deserves to feel that way but maybe after letting him wallow in it a bit you all could have some more open communication.

That same MC (it was Dave's IC, so a male). Just looked at us both and said

Boy, this really sucks. For both of you. It would have not been easy with a one night stand but this 5 year thing must have just killed you as a wife. Man, it really sucks.

It was with such compassion and true feeling, I finally thought okay, it's okay to just feel like this sucks. Because it does.

((((LH))))) I'm sorry your going through this crap....seems like one thing on top of another.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We seem to be ok and doing well, until we hit a challenge, more often than not, in the form of another person, then we collapse.Which makes me think that we are not doing that well, that maybe I am more optimistic and positive than I ought to be.

Our MCs just talked about this. A marriage is so fragile after a lta especially that any bump seems massive compared to how that bump would affect a solid marriage.

I think it was highly insensitive of him to tell you about the conversation verbatim. maybe he needed some pity or some support but to hurt you in the process is inexcusable. He's done that a few times lately.

I think you need to take a deep breath Adan simply breathe. Take your own advise and take care of yourself. What I read from his comments is that he feels immensely insecure about the relationship and has no idea where he stands. Good, he deserves to feel that way but maybe after letting him wallow in it a bit you all could have some more open communication.

That same MC (it was Dave's IC, so a male). Just looked at us both and said

Boy, this really sucks. For both of you. It would have not been easy with a one night stand but this 5 year thing must have just killed you as a wife. Man, it really sucks.

It was with such compassion and true feeling, I finally thought okay, it's okay to just feel like this sucks. Because it does.

((((LH))))) I'm sorry your going through this crap....seems like one thing on top of another.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, August 10th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


LH,

I don't know. I sort of see the conversation as a *good* one. It sounds like he's actually accessing some pretty difficult but real feelings and making a conscious decision to face them head on. That he's willing to at least try to fight through the hard stuff.

I hope this doesn't sound pollyanna-ish, but I think it sounds like he's telling his sister that you and your family are *worth* working to salvage. And I also think it's good that he told you-the last thing you want is a window that's open between him and Evil Sister but closed to you.

We're on vacation for the month of August and I'm having lots of thoughts about my life and marriage nearly three years post LTA d-day. Will share when I have time.

Hugs to all.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
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