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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WN - I am not a therapist (nor do I play one on TV ) but I think your H has some serious unresolved issues.

WH witnessed his 7 year old sister be killed. WH was taking her to the mailbox to check the mail when she was hit by a car as he watched.

If he was not in serious therapy as a child he has not addressed in completely or properly. This was definitely be a defining moment in his life. How could he NOT feel responsible at some level even if he was not. No doubt, this could lead to his ability to compartmentalize. I can't even imagine the suppressed anger (why was I given the responsibility to take her to the mailbox?) to the suppressed guilt (why couldn't I prevent it?).

She soon outed herself as homosexual and there was some sexual exploration at that time with WH's mom/dad/and other partners. (WH mistakenly found some pics as proof)

Doesn't this ring a bell with you with the whole group sex thing?

JMO but he needs IC big time.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I agree. I'm not sure how much he sees this or believes it but he is willing to go. I'm more scared of how much work it takes to change all those pre-set ways of coping and the likelihood that even if he can fix that....all the other aspects need to be fixed & healed as well.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tell him he is lucky to start this process at a young age. My H will be 50 in a couple of weeks and is so sad that he has wasted so much of his life.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone want to diagnose our LTA W's?

WN - This is the million dollar question, IMO. I read your H's history. Very, very sad. And HS, your H's FOO story is also so sad. I cannot say that my H's story is so tragic. Yes, his mom was critical and his dad agressive and short tempered, but this doesn't seem reason enough for my H's lack of morality and commitment to me.
It is a fascinating question and I guess the answer is different for each of them but in some cases it may seem more clear than others. I do think if you can look at their FOO and see tragic examples of their childhood, it might be easier to feel sympathy or at least some degree of compassion and certainly help to bring some understanding into the equation.
It doesn't make our reality any easier though. We still must struggle through the healing process.
As a side note, has anyone heard from LH? I have been wondering and hoping that her vacation is going well. It will be so good to hear from her.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:02 PM, August 14th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is FOO?


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Family of Origin


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks! WH & I were sitting here trying to figure it out and it's not listed under the abbreviations.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks! WH & I were sitting here trying to figure it out

That statement in itself is very encouraging. That he is with you trying to figure it out.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you hurtshirley. Yes, he is doing what he needs and we're very close- I've been sharing everything- (he just read my very painful jounal entry from earlier today) and reminding myself that in times of pain and struggle I need to run towards him- work with him to get through this....but HE needs to open up too because otherwise I'm going to really be coping with it all by myself. I got the whole "run towards in time of pain" from SI.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since he is here, has he posted in Wayward? I know my H, Empty One has found much support and answers there. If you are comfortable and he is remorseful, I would encourage him to open up to the people there. They will be able to guide him in ways that we cannot.

LH - I am thinking of you and hoping for the best. But, no matter what happens, we are here for you. ((((LostHeart))))

good night...going to bed..."see" you all in the am.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:50 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all as the weekend approaches.

LH travels home tomorrow, so I expect she will be logging in over the weekend. I said to contact me anytime if she wanted to blast off at her H. I hope it went ok for them and that that idiot H of hers can see what a wonderful W&M he has in her. Lost heart Ė youíre ALL heart!

WN28

she started having sex with all of them within a week....

What??? What a slut.

I have to agree with shirley and the FOO issues. They sound very serious and you certainly took on a lot of baggage when you married him. IC, definitely. Or psychotherapy or even psychiatry. ASAP. Like, yesterday. But if you are happy with it, I am pleased to see your H is visiting with you here and yes, he will find support in Wayward, even if he only lurks! My H is not allowed, which is my choice. And I think he found it too painful to hang around for long.

And I donít think I can be bothered much more with all these whys and wherefores about his affair

I said that b/c I donít think I want to be with him anymore. Well, that's how I've felt this past week or more. The love I had, which he trashed so spectacularly, has gone. I was desperate to have him back. But I wanted the man I thought he was and it would seem that man never existed. My marriage should be pronounced ďmirageĒ. And if he sees me and his family as an extension of his failure in life, then there is no point in hanging around. I do not want to be labelled a failure and dragged down to his level. I have struggled with self confidence all my life. His affair has made me feel utterly worthless. The most appropriate adjective is insignificant; somehow that is worse than anything he claims to have felt. I was not even worth his consideration. Our marriage was not worth respecting. His wishes and desires were paramount. He has finished whatever he was writing and left it for me to read this morning while he is out. I canít be bothered. I donít even know what he is trying to say and whatever it is, I wonít believe it. Out on that flat plain again, I guess.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:51 AM, August 15th (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His affair has made me feel utterly worthless. The most appropriate adjective is insignificant; somehow that is worse than anything he claims to have felt. I was not even worth his consideration. Our marriage was not worth respecting. His wishes and desires were paramount.

UKG - I am so sorry you're feeling this way but I have to repeat what has been said so many times here - It was not about us - it was about them and THEIR feelings of worthlessness. If they saw us as an extension of their failures, it was their failures, their inadequacies, not ours that they were projecting onto us. We are not insignificant. We are not worthless because they did not see our value, our contribution. It is their feelings of worthlessness, their moral failure, their lack of character that is at issue. We must never forget that whatever they thought or didn't think of us is NOT who we are or are not.
We have both seen how competent we have been throughout our married lives. We are strong, independent women. Yes, we were SAHM's and so financially we have been dependent on our H's. But in every other area of our lives we have proven ourselves to be competent and the fact that our H's could not recognize our value does not, IMHO, take away from our intrinsic value.
I think the issue that we have to think about at this point is whether or not our H's have truly changed or are at least in the process of change. I'm not saying that coming to terms with what they have done to us is an easy process but the one thing that makes it possible for me to move forward is seeing the changes (however slowly they are coming ) my H is making and believing that it just might be possible for us to R and have the M I have always hoped for. If your H is not making changes, if he is still treating you with disrespect, still lying, still denying his culpability or blaming you for his failures, then perhaps it is time to think of moving on. If, on the other hand, he is sincerely trying to R and doing all that you ask of him, then maybe it is possible to continue in the M. As to the negative feelings you are experiencing as a result of his A, perhaps your IC can help you to work through these and see how it is your H and not you who was insignificant.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:13 AM, August 15th (Friday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well FNF. I know you are right. But this low is somewhere I havenít been since last autumn. I have been so lifted by the support here and that, to be quite honest, has kept me from actually saying to FWH ďI donít think there is anything leftĒ. I know that it has to be him that was broken, but I see myself as damaged beyond repair. I have wanted to say all of this to him tonight, to ask him what it was about her that made it worth pursuing and what he liked about himself while he was in the affair. How did she make him feel. But all that will do is confirm that I simply wasnít enough for him. And that I am not enough for myself, or my children. Iím competent alright. But thatís not enough either. Did I say about this dream I had? I canít remember. Anyway (it was last week), I felt a real need for him to understand all the financial stuff. He hasnít a clue about accounts, savings, direct debits, boys UK account, Aussie account, credit cards. I mean NOTHING. And in this dream Iím going to die in a certain way in a certain place. So the next day or two, I sort it. And take him through it. My absence would be (initially) more disrupting. So I made him do the online banking and showed him which drawer to find the passwords.

I just so guarded. I really donít think I feel anything for him right now. And that concerns me. He is doing everything I could ask of him. But, I just donít believe in him anymore. What do I do? Wait? We have MC on Wed next. I just want to push him away until then.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK,

I don't think any of us would want to be with the men our H's were when they were having the affairs. I think that rabbi was right on when he said that the reasons men have affairs have little to nothing to do with their wives or with their feelings for their wives. It's all about their lack of commitment to living an honorable life.

I think a man can have a tremendous amount of affection for his wife and still have an affair (notice I didn't say love or respect, I said affection -- ie strictly feeling).

To have an affair you have to be willing to be a liar and a cheat, and our husbands were, through and through. Their actions showed that.

I think FNF hit the question you have to answer square on: has he changed or is he changing? Because if he isn't, no amount of affection for you will prevent this from happening again. And no amount of money or history or convenience or social standing or kids or any of that will make it worth your while to stay with him IMO.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How sad now to see his love shining out from his eyes and I feel nothing.

HS - I hope you don't mind my highlighting this but the raw honesty from you the other day seemed so important to show to UKG in case she missed it.
I wanted to let you know, UKG, that we all go through this and looking at your d-day, it's no surprise that you are experiencing this "plain of lethal flatness" at this time. It is a frightening (at least to me) phase to be in because we feel like our situation is hopeless. Who wants to be in a M where you feel nothing for the person you are to spend the rest of your life with? But just like you said, you haven't been there since last fall and maybe this is just another setback for you. Only time will tell. We will be here for you while you wait and see whether this too shall pass or if you do decide to move on.
For me, when I have gone through these periods (and they are more frequent than I would have hoped), I do try to be patient with myself and they have passed. Each of us has to answer for ourselves what is best but I have determined never to make a rash decision unless I should ever discover that my H was involved in another A. Then it would be over. That is the promise I have made to myself - to keep working as long as he is working and to give him the opportunity to make up to me the wrong he has done. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope to be a sounding board for you when you need me.
(((UKG)))
BT - I wanted to thank you for mentioning that post the other day. It was very helpful to read what the rabbi said. It helps to hear as often as we can that their A's were not about us but about how damaged they were. Thank you again.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((UKGirl))))

My mom took the kids until Monday. H is working 3-1130 this entire weekend (as usual). I need to let me expectations go, b/c they just never get met. I want him to call and ask me to go out for a drink after work and have a 'date' kind of weekend with lots of fun and lots of sex. I imagine I will get non e of that unless I suggest it. Yes, he will happily go along with it if I suggest but I want him to be interested, you know? I need to let that go. I hinted about the drinks by saying last night that he should take me out for a drink sometime. I don't think he'll follow through though. This sucks.

I'm going to concentrate on me. A girlfriend is coming over tonight to eat and hang out. Maybe tomorrow I will do a little organizing and rent a movie or something. Just a 'me' day to do what I want.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:02 AM, August 16th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all and hi LostH if you are lurking between the wash loads.

SoL. I have that non-proactive type too. Result? I get nothing unless itís golf or rugby related.

To have an affair you have to be willing to be a liar and a cheat,

I have determined never to make a rash decision unless I should ever discover that my H was involved in another A. Then it would be over.

He swears blind that this is the only affair he has had. I have my doubts and Iím going to say why, (even though I have told no one about this Ė not even my doctor). I have to tell FWH why I doubt him. Thursday night, as we got into bed, I asked him specifically if he was seeing anyone back in the early 90ís. No. A bit before then? NO. This is the only affair he has had.

I was waiting to get pregnant with child #4 and had a couple of miscarriages during the four years before falling for DS4 and moving to this house. When we moved for his career in í91, I was 33 and H 35 and he was in a mega job with the Range Rover company car, big salary, entertaining and expenses and we moved into a massive house that, even with the salary he was on we could barely afford. I was driving a top of the range Volvo estate. We were considering private school for all 3 boys until I fell for DS4. H was very fit, playing first team rugby, corporate golf and he probably felt that this was as good as it gets. Enter girl from work. No mobile phones, just car phones back then. No email either. She seems nice enough, so nice she offers to baby-sit our other three so we can go to some ďdoĒ for a weekend (I have a feeling it was a Shakespeare weekend in Stratford Ö. Yes, really). And she came to our house a few times. Her interaction was just a little too familiar for my comfort, even though she was living with her BF. H seemed to talk about her quite a lot. She worked for him for a couple of years, I think. Around that time, I donít even remember the year, I have my first attack of genital herpes. I didnít know what it was, it went away and I thought no more of it. Now, is it possible to contract herpes non-sexually? Neither of us has ever suffered from cold sores on the mouth, so that transfer is unlikely. And do women get outbreaks more often than men? Anyway, I get it in little spates of a few days at a time once a year or less. Iíve got an outbreak that started Thursday. Now, if he has been faithful and is telling the truth, (i.e. he has only had the one affair) he is going to assume Iíve been up to something in the past Ė which I have not. This could be lobbing a bomb into the fragile situation. Or am I better off staying quiet, as I have done all these years?

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:05 AM, August 16th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, August 16th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKGirl- I know that herpes can lay dormant for years before having an outbreak- right? So either you or he could have contracted it anytime before it would possibly outbreak.

Hopefully someone will confirm what I think to be true.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, August 16th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK - I looked up all the symptomology of Herpes after Dday. It can (and there have been posters here) lie dormant and there are lots of triggers to make it come to the surface.

I get cold sores, although they are a different Herpes virus, they work the same way. I could not have them for years and just this summer I've had 3 breakouts. I can have them from too much sun exposure, stress, another virus in my system, cracked dry lips.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, August 16th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you know whether you have HSV1 or HSV2?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
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