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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks BT and Shirley.

Quick advice please.

SIL wants to come over for a few days and leave for AU on Thursday. H cant take off work, said that she she will hang with the kids when I am work.She also told him that she wants to resolve this matter betw us.

We had a huge argument (this tel call came on during that).

I told him that I dont want her here; I dont want to talk to her to resolve this (cos I honestly cant see it happneing; she will just use this as a time to beat me up justify her actions and I end up looking like the tosser whilst she lloks like the one who tried to help).
I am NOt in a strong place. I have been unravelling in the last 48hrs. I am scared that she will cause more damage that I will have to fix myself.

HE says he is stuck in the middle, doesnt know what to do and is cross with me for putting him there. We have been going round and round with noone giving an inch.

What do I do? I honestly think that keeping her away from me is the best thing for me right now. And who knows how she will screw wth his mind when I am at work. He says that he is not that gullible where he will do whetver she says. I think that he is in such a funk that right now, he is v vulenerable. She will leave and we will be lwft with a mess.

Am I wrong, Tribe, in not wanting her here, and in not wanting to talk to her. Just that one evening showed me that she has not changed, and is still as narcisstic as ever.

Oh as for looking at his FOO...H told me a few times that ALL or most of our problems are US..that we cant communicate, we dont see eye to eye etc.
And if we just sort that out, we will be fine. I think he meant, if I just sort msyelf out, we will be fine. This is the same BS he used to pull before.

HElp pls.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostH - Oh god, I don't even know this woman and I hate her. I didn't want her there last week. This is how I would look at it...

HE says he is stuck in the middle

If he feels this way, it is by his choice. He can choose to do what any husband should do which is support his wife. He should join your team rather than looking at himself as a referee. Once he is on your team, committed to you as a couple, he will understand how she is upsetting the relationship. By allowing himself to stay in the middle, to CHOOSE by NOT CHOOSING, he cannot see that perspective. This is about her but it is about her because he is allowing it to be.

I think you need to do what you can to keep her away for now. You and your marriage seem very fragile and she is too much to bear under the circumstances.

(((((LostHeart)))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive my ignorance, but is there something in your religious/cultural tradition that talks about where a husband's loyalties lie after marriage?

The Christian/western tradition teaches basically that after marriage a man's loyalties should transfer nearly completely to his wife, and that she is his first priority (cleaving and all that stuff.)

Is it the same for you?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That did not go well.

He called her and told her she cant come, cos I have issues with her. She asked to speak to me, asked me whats up..and all hell broke lose.

I did what I did not want to do. And I am so angry with myself.

So basically now H called her up again and apologised to her, he is pissed off with me; and I am so so angry with both of them. H

Religiously his loyalties should lie with me. His loyalties lie with himself. Not his family or SIL.

Btw, I told her that a woman who has lied and cheated on her H, who has slept with OM whilst married, should be the LASt person to give out ANY M advice (she was saying that a M was based on trust and respect etc and we obv didnt have that).

I also told her that I had loved her so much; has stood by her when noone else wanted to...and that I will NEVER let her back in my life again.

She said its not for me to keep her away from her brother. I said thats true, but I WILL keep poison away from my family.

this is all fucked up.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, man! It is so hard not to engage in something like that when it is thrust in your face. I am so sorry you are having such a tough week.

Last night went so so. I met H at the bar and we had a beer and wings and it was fine. Went home and he actually came up to bed with me and I was so excited that he was making an initiative (although I took the viagra with me and did not give it to him...it just didn't feel right). Anyway, we watched tv and I said goodnight and he kissed me a couple times and rolled over to sleep. Well, he did have his arm around me. I was so bitterly disappointed that in a house alone with is wife for four days and making love to her never occurs to him. It makes me beyond sad. I told him "You have no idea what a good thing you have in me but someday you will, I May or may not be here". He seemed very confused by that, said he did know and I said oh, no, you definitely do not.

He's still sleeping. I am just plain sad and realizing that this may never work. That I will never feel wanted.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He called her and told her she cant come, cos I have issues with her

WE not I He put you in the middle again. My only advice after the fact is don't engage her, don't get on the phone with her. He says she can't come...end of discusion. You need to go NC with her personally. If she insists on having contact with her brother, your H, then he needs to do it away from you and the family. They can meet somewhere else but not in your home and not with you around.

(((((LostHeart))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((SoLost)))))

I am sorry...all I have to give right now are hugs.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

I think at this point in your life you need to expect to be the only one standing up for yourself. Your H is not willing/capable of taking care of you emotionally -- at least not with your relatives or his. If you continue to expect him to do so, you will continually be hurt.

He may eventually get to the place where he can do that, but he isn't there now. At least not consistently. And you know what, in the end that is going to be a good thing for you because it will make you strong in ways you can't even imagine yet.

My advice to you is simple: act like you are a team of one. Not cruelly. I'm not telling you to ignore your husband. I know you love him and that he loves you. So give what you can, but don't rely on him or anyone else for anything emotionally right now (including your Mom and sisters). Continue working in IC to get to the point of emotional indepedence and only then will you be able to be inter-dependent if your H is doing his own work, too.

I know people don't like the term co-dependent, but I believe it perfectly describes my relationship with my H pre-dday and I knew it had to change completely. I wanted him to stand up for me emotionally because I was afraid to do it myself and I resented him when he didn't. And I expected him to magically know exactly the right way to do whatever I wanted him to do without any discussion. But really I should have been standing up for myself all along and using him for support, not for a shield.

You didn't want that bitch in the house and for good reason. I know it is scary to do so, but you are well within your rights keeping her out. If you want to make decisions like that, you are going to have to be willing to stand behind them and take the heat for them. I would have much preferred your H to stand with you on that, but I am not surprised that he didn't. You are stronger than him, my girl. This is one case where you can be the lighthouse and show him the way by your example.

You don't have to do that, of course. There is nothing that says you have to live with someone who does not see himself on the same team as you. But I think your husband has the potential of getting there. He is someone who has never really been part of a team so he doesn't know how to do it. It's hard to teach a rogue how to be part of something larger than himself. But he can learn.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My advice to you is simple: act like you are a team of one.

BT, I understand that intellectually. I just thought that after everything, we were beginning to be a team.There have been times in this past year when we have worked so well together.

And this happens. And he says things like he doesnt know what he wants; he is confused; and he behaves the way he has this past 2 weeks, and I am a bit shellshocked.

I want to make something clear:
I am not a good LTA BS. Am not. I have done and said things in this last few weeks that I shouldnt have. I have ridiculed him and shamed him. I have been disrespectful to him..even in front of the kids.I told him today that I hate him, every single pore. This morning I had a meltdown, and I was back to where I havent been in a long long time...I wanted to hurt myself. That feeling was so overwhelming.I had to sit on the kitchen floor,holding myself tight, and squeeze my hands to stop them.

So BT and Tribe, I am not as strong or good as you think I am.

And since I am airing my crap, I will say one more thing. The night before we left, he didnt put the kids in the middle, I did.

For that whole day, I had to lisetn to why wasnt dad..., why cant dad..., why is dad so...; and I was oeverwrought, running around trying to do verything that we were suppsoed to have done together,w hilst he played on his PC.

That night, the kids and I were packing up our clothes, and again, they all asked me, "Why isnt dad helping?Why is he so grumpy? Isnt he excited too?He is going to spoil everything"and I was fed up. So I asked them if he changed the way he was behaving, would they feel better? Do they want to speak to him about it?"

Now, they always do this..ask me questions about him and I filter and translate. So I told them they should be able to speak to their dad by themselves, they should be able to voice their feelings to him about him.They agreed and wanted me to initiate.

So we called him up and I told him something along the lines of, "The kids are very excited about the holiday. They are concerned about how you have ben behaving, and they are worried about how this will affect us on holiday. They would like to talk to you about it."

He said that he knew that we would do this, and to save everyone from having a bad holiday, he would stay home. That we were to carry on by ourselves. That he was a bad man and a bad dad (like your mother will keep on reminding you)so he should be left behind.

I guess we were all shocked by this response. Guess I expected him to aplogise and say that he would try harder to be nicer and would do what he can to make this holiday good.

And as you all know it went all pearshape from there.

So.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to make something clear:
I am not a good LTA BS. Am not. I have done and said things in this last few weeks that I shouldnt have. I have ridiculed him and shamed him. I have been disrespectful to him..even in front of the kids


Let me also be clear: ME TOO.

I was not a good girl at all. I was mean as a snake at times, and meaner others. I had almost as much work to do as my H did. So you are not alone.

I guess that is why I was able to cut my H some slack after a certain point -- because I could see in myself that there was a back and forth, couple steps forward, couple steps back, aspect to this whole process of change. It's not linear. I was trying to change deep parts of my nature, to change the habits of a lifetime. I couldn't do it all the time, and I had to expect him to mess up some times, too.

This stuff is HARD, and so much of it is GRAY. We fuck it up sometimes and we succeed spectacularly sometimes. We just need to keep moving in the right direction and to give both ourselves and our partners the grace to make mistakes along the way.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This stuff is HARD, and so much of it is GRAY. We fuck it up sometimes and we succeed spectacularly sometimes. We just need to keep moving in the right direction and to give both ourselves and our partners the grace to make mistakes along the way
.

Thanks so much for this, BT.

I sometimes feel like you all think that I am some goodygoody IRL, when I am not. I try, I really do, but if i am going to come down hard on H on not giving SIL the whole picture of our M, I should do the same for myself.

I do love that man. And as much as I want him to hurt, I dont want to hurt him.I would fight tooth and nail for him, as long as I know we are on the same team. And when this happens, I feel so...helpless and gullible. Feelings that I hate. So I am trying to look at all that we have accomplished in its entirety and not just this past 2 months.

I need to be strong for all of us, and that means sucking in my angst (and venting here ).

He looks so ...defeated.And even though he told me that he wants to be left alone, esp by me, I still gave him a hug and gave him his dinner.

****
So, how is everybody else?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostHeart - sorry I dissapeared but the sun came out after weeks of rain and I just had to get outside for a few hours (yes, without my laptop!! ).

Obviously, BT has given you some amazing advice. It is good to hear that everyone struggles and is not that nice to the XWH. I know that I can't even believe the things that have come out of my mouth. I even called him a c**t one day... (um, wrong sex shirl ). Sooooo...

want to make something clear:
I am not a good LTA BS. Am not. I have done and said things in this last few weeks that I shouldnt have. I have ridiculed him and shamed him. I have been disrespectful to him..even in front of the kids

You can sign me up as a member of the "Bad BS" club too.

SoLost - how are you doing? I just don't understand the whole sex thing. How they can risk everything to have sex with someone and then not want to have it with their wife....just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

<<<waving>>>> Hi BT


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Shirley
Glad you managed to get out in the sun and soak in some vitamin D.

I am off to sleep now. Work tomorrow with a new manager, someone I am already wary of. He seems to be a huge flirt, and told one of my colleagues (who is all giggly and flirty herself)that I would look much prettier if I smiled. WTF.

***
Good night all.

BT, again..a hundred and one thank yous.

Fnf, Hope to catch up with you soon.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Shirley,

Glad you got some sun. It always seems to make everything seem better.

As to the sex thing, it's a hard thing to live with, or more precisely, without. I did it for the first 20 years of my marriage and it was a constant point of contention and bad feelings between us.

Sex is so tied into intimacy that it shouldn't be too surprising that these guys who run from intimacy will also run from sex with those they are supposed to be intimate with.

I well remember how much his lack of interest in sex with me hurt me, but my case makes it completely clear that that is just one more thing that is all about them rather than about us.

In my case, I sat twiddling my thumbs with little to no sex during the years when I was a runner and was as physically fit as I have ever been. I was young, fit and full of energy. I know I had a little something going on then because others guys certainly showed an interest, just not my H.

Now, when I am old and saggy and fat, my husband initiates often and our sex life is the best it's ever been. Strange but true.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know...I wish he had cut me off during his affairs because at least it would have been a clue. Nope he was cake eating like a pro...getting it everywhere he could.

Hey, BTW....alert, alert..

Pics of UKG down in F&G looking hot and spotty in polka dots...

Hey UKG, you look great and looks like a fun group. Hope you had a good day.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoLost - how are you doing? I just don't understand the whole sex thing. How they can risk everything to have sex with someone and then not want to have it with their wife....just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Me neither. And during the affair we didn't have sex for a full two years. Of course, it lasted for 4 1/2 but whatever. So now for him not to have sex makes me so hurt and worried and everything else. He says it;s physical/medical---diabetes and ADs. And yet he did with her almost every weekend. Sometimes 3 times a weekend. And yet alone with his wife for four days and nothing. He says she was very aggressive and to be honest, if I initiated, he would. But I want to be wanted, you know? This whole topic is starting to sour therest of our relationship at times.

We had a great weekend otherwise. He didn't get on the computer once, which is a HUGE deal for him. Just came to bed when I did, which was much later than my normal but still.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Evening all. The sex topic raises it's ugly head again, huh?

Still don't know why my H doesn't want to... of course as he says, I jump to the worst possible scenario... that he's not interested in ME specifically. It's not that he swears, just too many issues to work through.

Plus, the lovely man informed me that since I appear to be in competition every time (and he says he can sense it) it kind of turns him off that I NEEEEEEED to have sex with him.. why he asks? And he has a point. I don't want to have sex with him. I just keep hoping it will ignite something in either or both of us. He says I want it like when we first married.. no, I just want it like when I didn't know. He never questioned what I did then, even if I "stepped it up". Now he thinks I'm competing with ghosts and I am.

Maybe I need to get drunk again. THen he can't say it was because I'm doing it to compete. I can just say it's because wine makes me horny.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And "the number" appeared on his phone again from Friday. 3 second call. I tried the number, waited until she answered and then hung up... 3 seconds. So I guess he's hoping her husband answers... somehow that's even more suspicious that he won't talk to her. If she's so completely innocent in this stuff, then why not talk?

And I had a really lightbulb moment after I made that call... his description of OW... very much like this guy's wife's looks.

I'll never know the truth, so I'll never have peace.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

((((weepy))))
No words...

***
(((Shirley)))
(((SoLost))))

Hope the weekend ended well enough for you both.

***
Ukg...you look wonderful!

***
A strange almost false calm has settled here, and its like the one before the storm. I hope I am wrong.

He is staying away from me; says he wants to be left alone, says that he doesnt care what happens now; says that he just doesnt care about anything or anyone. So am trying to keep the spirits up, but feeling a bit anxious inside.

Wouldnt it be nice if it was all clear cut, black and white?

Have a good day, Tribe.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:14 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick trumpet:
Last night the kids were cuddling with me in bed, they were still hyped up and I needed to sleep so I can wake up early today.


So DD1 rubbed lotion on my feet cos they are so dry( )whilst DD2 told me a bedtime story. They are just my biggest blessing.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
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