He thinks he is going to be on a 'leash' forever
SoLost - I just saw this as I was going to bed but i have to say that he is not on a leash he just thinks he is. Tell him to go, give him all the space he needs and I bet he will see that he is the one that put himself on the leash. If not, you can't control him anyway. There is not leash; there is only commitment and commitment isn't a leash.
Hope you have that day well behind you.
How does your H react to the day, btw? Have you created a "new" anniversary day?
And not seeing the boys off to school too.
That must have been one heck of a day for you, BT.
Hope you are being gentle with yourself, dear friend.
About that gettogether...I would SO love to come. If you made in during the off season, maybe Ukg and Brooke and I could pull it off! What say you UK sisters?
Your H is behaving like a spoilt brat. I am quite sure he knows what he is doing (or NOT doing), and I think that this is part of his revenge for not getting his way with that stupid outing. HE may think that he is over it, but he is obviously reacting in a PA way. Asshat.
Now, I am going to be a little tough on Kat,but you know I mean well.
Are you going to continue to run after him like this, and let him call the shots?
The way I see it, you have a few options, maybe the others will point out more.
1. Tell him this is NOT acceptable. Its been long enough since dday. He either gets his shit together and starts behaving like he WANTS to be there with you, or theres the door. (Can you tell I am still in a kickass mood? )
2. Start implementing the 180 as best you can. I know its tough and you can adapt it for you. But the essence of it, I think, is to start protecting yourself and to look after yourself.To do whats good for you. For eg. come bedtime, instead of hanging around for him to throw you some affection, how about you have a long hot bubble bath, put on your comfy pjs, (heck throw on some face mask and oil treatment for your hair as well), climb into bed with a good book and a glass of soemthing nice, until you are ready to sleep.
3. Bring this up in MC,maybe they can get through to H.
All the best.
Ukg, I am here. Spent the day with the kids school shopping and just chilling. They get antsy if I am near the laptop.
How are YOU doing?
In one post said that the OW was "better" than you in some ways, but can you see now that she was a much much watered down, poorer version of you. No wonder she tried so hard to emulate you. She is one messed up female. Her poor BH.
So what ARE your plans for the kitchen? Whats your decorating style?
On my side:
We were contacted by the lawyers yesterday wanting to know if we are proceeding with the house or not.
H said that we should, irrespective of whats going on now.
I laid it as carefully as I could. I told him that it was evident that the M was not working out, and my worry is that I can not afford to pay the mortgage by myself after we split.HE said that altho he would def contribute financially, it would be impossible to for me and the kids to stay there. However, the way the rental market is, I would be paying similar for a rental property anyway,(true). As he would be putting all his savings into the deposit, he had the most to lose. HE said that he knows that and is fine with that.
So we are going ahead with the house buy. There are reports everywhere that we are on a brink of a recession.So scary stuff.
(((((Those who are going through a tough patch)))))
Any frogs legs in there? Or better yet....Rocky Mountain Oysters - Human Style!!!!
There is not leash; there is only commitment and commitment isn't a leash.
Do you think he is exerting power over you by recognising your status vulnerability over here?
So we are going ahead with the house buy.
No wonder she tried so hard to emulate you.
I too got trickle truth big time. B/c of that, I don't think I'll ever feel certain that I finally have the whole truth. We had so many set backs b/c I would find out something else. And as for the time you sucker punched him. I beat the crap out of my H one night. I hit him over and over while I was spitting in his face. I still count that as one of my best moments. And I do not regret it!!!
You outta your FSA No-mates mood yet
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
And the whole point of the affair with her was that she wasn’t me. It wasn’t me he wanted to be with, or even a watered down version or a substitute. He wanted HER
But she wanted to be YOU. Not just his wife, but exactly you.
That is so bizarre. Even the gym thing.And he went along with it,making her into a UKg stepford, which is even more bizarre. Wonder what the shrinks will make of this?
But I have plans
I am sure you have, FSA!
You are way too smart and quick, to be chasing dustbunnies the whole day once the kids are in school.
You go girlfriend!!
Just remembered the time you and your DD went to the opera...you are a hoot!
I so wished you lived at least in this time zone...
I am starting to think the problem might be me. Maybe he is right. That I am difficult to talk to. Maybe I am over sensitive. Maybe thats just me to change and then EVERYONE will be fine.
MAybe I give a flying fuck.
I think it is time to pull it in my friend and set some boundaries with the people around you. A really valuable skill to cultivate is to protect yourself by simply walking away. I think a little 180 might be very helpful to you in gaining some distance and persepctive on both your H and your mother. I urge you to disengage, at least for a while, with both of them.
I know that your mother views herself as stuck in her marriage by virtue of her early choices. Don't view yourself the same way.
The only thing keeping her where she is is her own choices today. You can make different ones.
I'm super stressed about our healing but will get into that later...I could probably write a book on it.
I'm stuck in a shitty place right now....we had sex this morning and it was a huge trigger for some reason...since then I can't stop thinking and I'm just staring off in space chewing my nails. WH asked me if I wanted to talk but other than sharing my thoughts and it possibly turning everything shitty there is no purpose....I go back & forth weekly on feeling like getting my crap out works to feel better but then hearing from WH that he feels overwhelmed because it's non-stop..... too bad for him...boo f'in hoo.
I'm thinking about how it's often for Waywards to not think about their spouse during sex with the OP yet thinking of the OP while having sex with their spouse. How horrible is that?? Granted, it's probably not all glamorous sexual thinking- I'm sure there is a hint of guilt there too....but to think that sex between WH & I for the past 2.5 years has been him thinking about OW? Surely makes me fell loved.
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
making her into a UKg stepford,
But as to your next post – what BT said. Every word. Please try and remove yourself a little emotionally, step back, walk away, count to ten, twenty or a hundred. You are an exposed nerve and hurting too much. And that's not good for you. (((((LostH)))))
WN28. There’s not much to say on this one. We’ve all been there and know exactly how you feel post coitally. My H often asks what I’m thinking as I stare out of the window or at the painting on the wall. The watercolour painting on the wall is called “wishful thinking” and of a naked young woman on a beach with her back to the artist, terracotta skin, long blonde plait. She has her right knee up to her chest with her arms around it. She sits slightly to the left of frame looking out over a deep blue sea with some sort of green horizon across the bay. When I bought it, I said that’s me, when the kids have gone, that will be me. Peaceful. Now I know I’ll never have it and I’ll never be there. It helps a bit that FWH just wants to hold me, but again, that’s what he did with OW and I don’t like to think about that. For the first 18mths, it was all I ever thought about. Not helped by trickle truth. I’d say show him the post OneStepAtATime did. Then he might understand. Wow, it’s a long way back – here’s the link:
Ok. I am asking for some advice.
You all might remember that OW sent FWH a text (it’s back on pages 30&31) and I deduced that she sent it while drunk. So I tried to phone her H to tell him to find that they were on holiday, so I sent him a text and asked what was going on. Yesterday I tried to ring him (it rang out) to say it was a copy text and maybe sent in error, so no worries. Today, I get a text from her, saying: “Stratford was night be4 u went to Egypt. I did not send text. But apparently it was sent accident’ly. Stop texting H” Fucking nerve of the woman!!! Am thinking what to send to her. Very kind of her to completely wreck my memories of our 25th anniversary which were tainted enough anyway. Fucking bitch. How dare she after what she’s done??? However, I thought something like “if you had removed all of FWH’s details from your phone LIKE I ASKED, there would have not been another ‘mistakes’ and I would not have contacted H.” Dunno what she was on about with Stratford, non-sequitur just to wind me up.
What should I do? Reply or leave it? Or go and paint “whore” on the side of her Audi TT?
Last night went form bad to worse. I thank you for all your insight and I believe you are all pretty right on. He is acting like a spoiled brat.
He came home and we talked again, which appears to not be a good idea anymore. He got all defensive again, even after I told him about it. I can't even remember much of the conversation. At the end we talked about sex which was the huge downfall. He said "yeah, sometimes I don't want to have sex with you.". That feels good. Gave lots of blame for it to our kids often coming in etc. How "when I was having sex with ow she was very aggressive and in to it". I could have ripped him anew one. Then he makes some comment about well, maybe we should make a sex schedule then. I told him to go fuck himself and I sure don't want to make love with someone who doesn't want to be with me or has to make a schedule to psych himself up to do it. I said I have restrained myself immensely through this whole thing but fuck him for making me feel like crap and tearing down the marriage and then expecting me to pick up at least half of his destruction.
He left and slept on the couch and I stayed up until 6 am thinking and crying. It was horrible. Until about 5 am I thought about divorce. How to handle the house and the kids and the dog an the money. But then I realized that i didn't get married to get a divorce and I wouldn't have married him if I didn't love him. That I needed to try this and not end on this crappy note. If we realize we can't do it in 3 months then so be it but not because of an argument.
So this morning about 11 am after kids were fed and played with and such I woke him on the couch and told him I was going to get some sleep but to come talk to me when he woke up.
So about an hour later he came up after giving the kids lunch and lay down next to me and said he was there if I wanted to talk. I basically told'him the above about divorce. That I cannot understand why he gets so angry when I come to him telling him I need to be loved. That it makes no sense. That I couldn't do this anymore. That I know he feels blamed but the fact of the matter is, he did something to ruin this and whatever my part was, it was not having a 5 year affair. He cannot expect me to be the aggressor and interested and making all the plans and saying lets hang out and initiating sex. I realize now he needs that but he needs to take that over for a while b/c I am just not capable yet. He has not carried that since this all came out and he should have.
He said he absolutely did not want a divorce either. That he needed to pack up the slack and he would try very hard to do that. That he doesn't know why he gets angry. That he feels like he is trying so hard to keep it in control and keep his voice down but he just can't. That maybe IC can help him with some anger management.
And this I felt was big. He said that he thinks he gets so angry b/c he is angry with himself for it all and doesn't know what to do with that. So he ends up directing it at me.
Said if it means anything about his commitment and how much he wants to stay married that he talked to IC two days ago about renewing our vows. That he wanted to start over at the beginning again and have things good like that. (I had told him he just wanted to go back to before I found out and live parallel lives again with me not interfering).
He said he loved me and we were going to get through this. That he would work hard on his anger. He had told me last night how I should communicate with him even if he rolls his eyes or acts uninterested if it's going to help me. Umm, yeah, sure. That makes me want to open up. He said he was going to try to be much more available.
I don't know. What do you all think?? He seemed genuine. Doesn't know what to do with his feelings. He has never, ever been a talker. He thinks this has to do back to the bowling at work thing b/c we never really resolved it between us, just kind of pushed it under the rug. He said he doesn't know how to resolve it but that it is causing tension between us.
I am just so tired. I slept another hour so that makes 3 total for the night. I know in my heart that I should not give up at this point. That doing that would be harder and more heartache than this, but boy this seems hard.
Sorry not an personals. I feel so wrapped up in myself right now that I can hardly think. Iwill come back to read more later.
[This message edited by So Lost at 4:05 PM, August 23rd (Saturday)]
Now listen to me, Ukg (my stern voice)!
She is trying to come between you two. It is eating her up that he threw her away and that he is not reacting to her pleas of distress. THAT was her hold on him...her distraught OTT pleas and his KISA crap.And now she knows that isnt working anymore..and worse, that he told YOU. ANd you want to tell her H! Oh, how she must be so tormented thinking that you both are having a chuckle at her expense. Ok, I know you are not, but she knows f-all.
So please dont buy into her game. Poor little missy is not getting her way, and she will be throwing some major tantrums and hurling some arrows your way.
Ukg, dont let her. No matter how tempted you are to know more, PLEASE dont let her in. Truly, I see it causing more harm than good.
Ignore her (ooh sweet revenge for a f-ed up drama queen), then contact her H later on (by phone not sms and withhold your number in case she answers).
I know you are upset with your H. And hurt. And right you should be. But honey, that was in the past...you know all of it was tainted. But still...I am so so sorry.
H is still sleeping at 11 am!
Whilst you are seeing to the kids after an emotional night!! No way.
He said he was going to try to be much more available
Maybe he needs some uh..direction in this, SoL. If he wants a schedule, ok then give it to him. Say 3 nights a week, he makes himself available (with the right mood!) to you, to do as you please, whether that is to chat, sex, play, or just hold you.He is NOT to go on the PC AT ALL for those nights. AT ALL.
Then 1 night a week, you both chat about your relationship for an hour. Set a proper time and you both have to stick to that. Not about the kids or work, just the relationship.
That leaves 3 nights where he can go delirious on his PC the whole night if he wants.
Now the kiddiecare.
I know he works shifts, so do you. He needs to pull his weight with that. Give him a timetable, like on such and such a night, he is responsible for the kids going to sleep. On weekends,you both take turns having a lie-in whilst the other does the kids and breakfast/bathes etc.
I know it sounds so contrived but eventually it becomes second nature, SoL. Honest.
As far how genuine he is, no need to make a decision yet. Let HIM prove himself.
I know in my heart that I should not give up at this point
SoL, there are no hard and fast rules to any one story here. So dont put that pressure on yourself. Now chin up, bring out the warrior inside you. And go kick some ass.
And the next time he speaks about how slutty Melissa was, maybe remind him that ...ok, dont. I will shut up now.
Just keep the coffeecups away.
I urge you to disengage, at least for a while, with both of them
BT, I was trying to, really. I just need to try harder.
Had a thought today:
Isnt it strange that my whole life I have learnt to look after myself and not count on anyone... YEt I still get affected when they (mum and H)do that. And whilst I have lived without that protection all this time, why do I NOW crave so openly for it, whereas before I had accepted that I will never get that. It is so incredibly stupid to expect people who have routinely proven that they are not to be trusted in any way,to look out for me. I must be some kind of jackass. I am not saying this out of pity, but incredulity.
That fucking bitch has got inside my head and I just want to waste her. Her H must be being transparent, showing her my text. WTF is she doing keeping my FWH details on her phone? WTF is the matter with the hissy failure of a no good piece of shit history? Why can’t she just lay down and fucking die? This is killing me. I hate this whole fucking affair crap. I want to bawl my H out and smack him senseless. Except DS4 is here. And DS3 will be later with his gf. And I’ve had too much to drink to drive. (hate that too – it was his “reason” to stay at OW’s house). Fuck. Southern Comfort offers solace. How I wish I’d had an affair. At least I’d know what it was worth. Or not.
Isnt it strange that my whole life I have learnt to look after myself and not count on anyone...
It is eating her up that he threw her away and that he is not reacting to her pleas of distress. THAT was her hold on him...her distraught OTT pleas and his KISA crap.And now she knows that isnt working anymore..and worse, that he told YOU.
I go back & forth weekly on feeling like getting my crap out works to feel better but then hearing from WH that he feels overwhelmed because it's non-stop..... too bad for him...boo f'in hoo
WN - Absolutely, boo f'in hoo to your H. You get those feelings out and make sure your H stays with you, listens and comforts you and acknowledges your pain. This is the way to your healing. I am 2 1/2 years out and I don't think I would be this far along
if my H hadn't stayed there while I cried and ranted and raved. If they walk away or try to make us feel guilty for needing to do this, it sends us the message that our pain means nothing to them. They need to prove to us that they love us enough to be there while we grieve the loss of our dream.
Thank you. i remind him repeatedly that if he is in for this challenge then he needs to be ready to do this my way and for a long time. I am worried that I will be healing on my own if he's not supportive enough and in the end I will realize that and we will have grown apart so much that I'll be gone.
((UKGirl)) I would like to agree with the car tactic but think you should let it go. Don't let her think that she "got" to you.
Thank you SO much for the link! I haven't read that and plan to highlight some areas and provide it to DH to read...tomorrow hopefully. HA! What are the chances of getting him to read anything- unlikely!
I have the same wish for her that I do for the OW in my situation -- I hope her life has been filled with unhappiness, with longing for what she cannot have, and for abject misery in every quarter. Loser.
I have the same wish for her that I do for the OW in my situation -- I hope her life has been filled with unhappiness, with longing for what she cannot have, and for abject misery in every quarter. Loser
Can I add my OW to the list?
I was thinking about this last night....I barely think about WH's A with OW#1. I guess because it was primarily PA, although she was an acquaintance she didn't become my best friend, the length of time was so much shorter, it was much longer ago, and he didn't have feelings for her. I don't know if its common for me to barely think about that A or not. I do think about the beginning of any of the sex ie: the slippery slope of boundaries and how that happened but after I get through that aspect in my head it goes right into OW#2. I don't know if any of this is making sense or not....
Did H tell you that was what Stratford meant?
She is trying to come between you two.
I hope her life has been filled with unhappiness, with longing for what she cannot have, and for abject misery in every quarter. Loser.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:08 AM, August 24th (Sunday)]