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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is for BS's that would like to interact with WS's that have specific questions.

BS's, please do not answer by proxy for your WS, stick to your situation.

There will be no bashing/snide/snarky remarks on this thread by anyone. Doing so will result in the loss of your Profile

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:49 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
woundedspouse
♀ Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to thank the mods for setting up this "safe" forum, and for the brave WSs that are so willing to help the BSs on their journey to understanding and ultimately healing.


My first question:

Why the "I don't know" or "I cannot remember".

I know many of the minute details may escape you, but EVERY detail except for the very clinical explaination of the act itself?

WH (Detached) seems to be unable (unwilling in my mind) to remember any details, cannot give me an "example" of what converstaion may have been ( other than it was about work & family uh ok...). He says they never talked about sex, that there was some "flirting" but cannot give me any examples, other than to say: "you know...flirting.

No I do not know. I don't know what it looks like to see my husband flirt with another woman with the goal of having sex with her. I don't know what get you from A to Z, as I have never gone there.

I see this in part as protecting himself. If he doesn't look / dig deep enough, he can still hide from it. WE both know he had horrible behavior at that time, but he won't look at JUST how bad it was.

WH had 10 OWs in a span of 6 years...all different types of affairs, the last being a LTA (long distance EA & PA).

How can he not remember most anything I ask? He does however seem to be able to remember things that are self serving.

Can any of you give me insight into this.

thanks in advance


wounded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
onemoretry
♀ Member
Member # 19698
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On d-day and in the immediate days after I pulled a lot of the "I don't know/I can't remember" crap. I wanted to save face and I didn't want to hurt him anymore than I already had. I tricked the truth for nearly two weeks and that was worse than anything. Had I just "remembered" and told him everything then things would have been better. I was still in the selfish fog though. It was only about me.


Me: FWW
BH-
Married: 19 yrs.
D-Day 1: 5/1997
D-Day 2: 5/27/08- same xOM
D-Day 3- 6/10/10- xOM #2

Posts: 195 | Registered: May 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

woundedspouse - just poking my head in to the new thread. Mine was an EA only, so I'll leave it to another WS to try to tackle your answer.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
woundedspouse
♀ Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

THanks LC!

OMT,

I can almost see it talking a few weeks....it must be terrifying to admit, as well as to face yourself.

We are almost 11 months past D Day. What are the chances it will ever happen? I think if he is willing to hide this long, he is willing to hide forever???

THanks

WOunded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
strugglingmomi4
♀ Member
Member # 18015
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS -

My WH and I are R our marriage. He reassures me that he loves me and only me and is happy with us. He also works with the OW. He does not want to talk about the A or the details that surround it. Why as a WS is it so hard for him to talk with me about the A? We both know it happened.


...Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do... But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength...


Posts: 277 | Registered: Jan 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strugglingmom - for me, going back to rehash the A forces me to go back to the darkest period of my life. I keep wanting to wake up and find it was all a horrible dream. I know it wasn't, but I hate myself knowing I was capable of doing something so awful.

While I know now I had to face my demons in order to heal it took quite a while for me to be ready to do so.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to know why, when faced with facts in black & white (ex. would be a bill or bank records), the lies continue? I don't mean this unkindly, but do they think BS are morons?

I have confronted my WH with seemingly obvious proof only to be told it's not true.

The most recent confrontation came about over a detailed invoice for a car rental used during a 'business' trip. Several things pointed to OW being there. He swears she was not.

Anyway, the invoice says the car was returned in OW's city (she lives in another state!). I love this part - wanna know what he said? It was a billing error! Of all the cities it could be, they happened to 'erroroneusly' type in hers.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal - it's hard to understand. No, I didn't think my BW was a moron. But that's the point. While in and just coming out of my A, I didn't think at all. Everything was a gut check reaction designed selfishly to protect myself. And once the lies start, it becomes nearly impossible to stop them until you face the entire mess head on. Not an easy thing for a WS, who frequently has to do so alone and with no support.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Woundedspouse

No every detail will not escape you but there are a lot that will. Sometimes these details are buried so deeply that they cannot be remembered unless you try very hard to pull those memories out. Also, it is very hard to remember details of conversations. Parts of conversations: yes, a overall theme of the conversations: yes, but not all the details. I find that writing things out it helps me to remember some of the details that I have forgotten or cannot remember when I am asked.

When he says “flirting” it may not have been X rated talks but innuendos. I know that innuendos were used a lot in the “flirting” I got and the way I “flirted” back.

IMO, He probably is protecting himself from the pain and also thinking that he is saving you from more pain. Him looking at how bad it was makes him uncomfortable, embarrassed, or whatever so he is able to compartmentalize all of this and bury it deep so he will not have to deal with the repercussions. Maybe it is that he cannot see differences between the OW’s, could it be that they all blend together?

Has he tried to write? Starting at the beginning and going through it all to the end? If he hasn’t this will help. The first time writing will be like an overview, if he goes back and reads what he wrote more memories will surface and he will be able to fill in some more information. From what he wrote you can ask him questions. Writing him questions and having him answer in writing also can be of help.

It takes a lot of courage and strength to admit to the wrong doings of oneself. Please let him know that you need him to answer your questions for you both to heal.

---------------------------------------------

Strugglingmomi4

I am sure that if your husband says that he loves you that he means it. If he is working with the OW has NC been established? Sorry to say this but if he is not willing to talk about the A he may still be in it. It is either that or that he is too embarrassed to tell you what happened. You will have to be specific on how much of the details you want to know and let him know how much to tell you. Do you want every little detail on what happened? You will have to decide how much you wish to know. And then again it may be hard for him to talk to you about it because he wants to sweep it under the rug. This will not help either of you and he needs to understand that. You need your questions answered to heal and it will help him heal to get the truth out. If he keeps it in it will poison him and I can tell you when that happens it hurts horribly. Only when I got all the truth out did the pain start to go away.

---------------------------------------------

Wannabenormal

I don’t think that a WS thinks that their BS is a moron, but more that the less they know the better. He does not understand yet that you know and he needs to admit so that you can continue on. He needs to own his own shit as we say. He is blame shifting to anything that he believes will make him look better. And I believe he is probably still in the fog and not seeing everything as it actually is. Of course when he does see what is actually going on he will see that what he is saying now is utterly ridiculous.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LC!

You are dead on - he's confused still, really has no one to talk to (other than me and OW - probably the last 2 peeps he should be talking to!)

I gathered he says these things for protection. I can see that he just can't stop telling them either. Once you start, it's hard to stop.

I found the 'billing error' to be the best lie so far. Completely uncreative.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to add that it's really cool of the WS to be on here facing stuff that isn't even their own, know what I mean? Coming on here to talk about things similar to your own situations and trying to help others is pretty cool.

Thank you!!


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Me again - so WS, when you were in 'The Fog', what did your BS do or do you think they could have done to help YOU during that time? Aside from probably the obvious of not talking about it so much.

I ask because my H is totally foggy and him not having anyone to talk to, I am sincerely worried (not even from a wife's perspective like, "when will he see how great I am?" I'm kinda past that; but in general - it can't be healthy for him to keep all this stuff internalized, you know?)


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wannabenormal

I would have loved not to talk about what happened but my husband helped me a lot although at the time I really didn’t like the way he did it. He kept asking questions, lots and lots of questions. He would then ask them in a different way. It seemed like every day he would ask the same questions. Then one day he asked a few questions in a way that he hadn’t before. We were at lunch at the time. On my way back to work it was like a lightening bolt hit me. For some reason the way he asked the questions I was able to see things in a different way and put things together. That answered a lot of his questions.

Another thing that he did was to prove that the things I was told were lies. Then he would be there when I needed someone to lean on. He always assured me that he would not run and he supported me so much.

It is not healthy to internalize this stuff, it will only bring on depression that will get worse as time goes by.

Could you get your WS to write out what has gone on and the things that he thinks about? Write questions to him and have him answer them? This helped us a lot also.

To focus more on each other could you start by asking your WS to write 3 things that he feels about you and then you do the same? Maybe make this a weekly thing, or even a daily thing. If he can shift his focus to you I think it will be easier for him to come out of the fog.

Does he read here or post here? That would help. If he doesn’t there are a lot of great articles in the healing library that you could print off and give to him to read. Jacobs letter is a really good one.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wannabenormal - Wells did so much for me I'm not sure I could list it all. But I think the most important things included:

Challenging me to make sure I didn't hide behind my conflict avoidance, then giving me a safe environment to talk by making it a discussion instead of a confrontation.

Encouraging me through the early stages of IC. It was frustrating for her I think when I wouldn't offer a whole lot regarding what I talked about in IC. As I got stronger I started to share more. All along I had strong support from her for the IC process.

Always making it clear she simply wanted me to be happy. From the start, she told me I had to decide in or out (I asked for a trial separation - she refused and it was the best thing she ever did for me). But whichever way I chose she supported it because she only wanted to know I was happy. As it turns out, I think we both benefited from my choice

She was patient while I waded through my fog. It takes a prolonged period of NC for the fog to lift. She never lost confidence that it would.

She helped me reintegrate with the family I had withdrawn from. When the kids would rebel because I was so out of touch with their reality, she would make sure the kids knew I still needed to be respected as their Dad, and then coached me on things that would make it easier for me to get back in touch with (in her words) "the rythm of the household".

She read along with me After the Affair, and we openly discussed each chapter when we both finished. She reads much faster than I do, yet she patiently waited until I caught up so we could face this thing together.

She focused on what it took to recover - for her and for us. She basically left xMOW out of it. If she had animosity toward her, she never showed it to me. It was always a focus on making us the best us we could be, and turning our back to xMOW.

Like I said, I know there's a ton more I'm missing here. But these were great starters.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H doesn't seem to be interested in any info - books, online, etc. I'm not sure if he's totally in the fog still or if he just wants out.

I guess I'm not only trying to help ME, but to help him too. I feel like a goober at times - sometimes I think, he's not into you...then I think, he doesn't know what he wants. Be there, you still care for each other.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Based on how I felt in the fog and emerging from it, it was more like the latter you are describing. It started out not knowing how into my BW I truly was. As the fog lifted, it became very clear.

One step at a time. Maybe just getting him to journal his thoughts. There is something very powerful about writing things down.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
andyd1950
♂ Member
Member # 20018
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is why ?
Why did you have your A ?
Why did you betray your S ?

I ask myself that every day, WHY did she stray from our marrage ?


BS (me) - 61
fWW (her)- 57
Married 39 years March 17,2012

Forgiving, that's easy.
Trusting again, that's hard.
Forgetting, impossible!

"When you take things for granted, the things you are granted get taken away."~ RevRun.


Posts: 1190 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Albany, NY
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have After the Affair - it's remained unread on his nightstand. I asked him to read it, but he hasn't. I think if I picked it up, there's probably a rectangle of dust around it.

I have had a bad habit of bringing 'her' up. I try so hard not to, but when I see on paper that things he said were one way really weren't, I get so fired up. I need to work on that. He has said it's not about her...but in my mind, she has a lot to do with why we're not moving on now.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

andyd - for me it was because I had a horrible combination of low self esteem and conflict avoidance. I let others define if I was good or bad. I had a horrible hero complex, wanting to save the world.

My BW was strong and didn't need saving. At times, I allowed myself to feel lower when she would point out where I was falling short of her expectations (not her fault, totally my own). And I wouldn't counter any criticism from her because I figured I would just lose the argument anyway so why bother.

While traveling on business and spending hotel nights alone, I found a site that had a lot of similar people. And you know what we all did? Stroked each others egos. We pretended to ourselves we were "just friends" having fun. I was kidding myself all along. By the time I knew how deep I was in, I was addicted to the positive attention and couldn't let it go.

It had nothing to do with my BW. And I wasn't thinking about her at all during the A. I was purely focused on getting my fix to counter my low opinion of myself.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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