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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
brokenhearted58
♀ Member
Member # 19997
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies. I was getting my hopes up but can see that I should not. He is still in the fog.

Bear - I dont think my H is trying to stall. He was the one who started the process for a legal seperation. I said if he wanted out I would let him out so filed for D. Even now, with our finances in a wreck, our house not selling, he is still wanting to push getting the D, even though he knows he will not be able to make CS payments and Cobra payments as long as we have the house. Part of me feels like he is pushing the D because he is so angry that I filed. Said in our mediation meeting that it was unexpected that I filed, that it spooked him because now he needs to get a L, felt I was acting in a covert way.

It makes me sad to see that he is throwing away his family. Even at mediation he said we had a great relationship before he went into a depression. When he left, he felt he was going to come home. Then he had an A and now wants out. Says A confused things and made things worse, which is why he is sorry, but it has nothing to do with wanting a D. <Sigh> just need to keep moving on with my life. If he comes out of the fog, he knows where I am.

Thanks again. And if anyone has any suggestions, PLEASE let me know.


Posts: 101 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: getting on
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bh58,

Sorry, I didn't get your story straight. However, I think you are still in the power position. Stay there.

Don't be too willing to 'be there when and/or if he's ready'. You've got to move proactively to protect yourself and your mental health now.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
hopefulone23
♀ Member
Member # 18769
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bs here with question for WSs...

I know I've posted this in other forms previously, but it's something I still struggle with daily and probably will until I can really make sense of it in my mind and in my heart.

FWH had a 4 yr LTA PA/EA with MOW. She lives 4 hours from us, so the physical portion of the A was not too often due to logistics, but the contact was almost daily via text and cell for 4 years with a few "break ups" here and there.

I do know for a fact that xMOW was the one who sought out my H on classmates after a high school reunion and came on to him with sexually-suggestive emails. Our M had been in dire straights for quite some time before the A, and then of course only got much worse during the A.

We were basically like roommates......very rarely had sex, and had none at all for 2 years prior to d-day, which was a mutual thing. Hardly ever said ILY to each other, kissed hugged, or had any love or affection between us. Our M had basically died.

So......here comes MOW hot and heavy after H and he easily succumbs due to the state of our M, but also due to his low self-esteem, self confidence, etc., after a series of job failures over the years.

Anyway, he carried on the A even into our MC despite him being the one who was pushing and pushing for me to go to MC. The A continued for the first 2 months of MC, then d-day happened and he immediately went NC with OW and hasn't looked back since.

There was no mourning, no grieving, no fence sitting, no
moping, nothing for xMOW. Now of course I'm not complaining, but here's my question.....

How can someone carry on a PA/EA for 4 years, tell OW how much he loves her, wants to spend his life with her, wishes they were married instead, she's his soul mate, best friend, on and on, and then POOF!!! Just like that it all evaporates into thin air on d-day??

I just don't get it!!

What I also don't get is my FWH repeatedly insists that he "didn't really love her," but yet he couldn't let go of her, even when we started MC that he had pushed ME to start?

She turned out to be a total nut case in the end, pulling a lot of "fatal attraction" type behavior, and the more I know about her, the more she sounds like a real "piece of work."

AND, he insists that she was "kind of ugly" and looked like a witch, didn't have a great body, and sex was mediocre at best. Plus, she was super demanding, controlling, and manipulative to the point where FWH would get in arguments with her defending me because she would bash me at every opportunity, even though she'd never met me and doesn't know me at all!

So please tell me, WSs, why would someone put themselves through 4 years of this crap, risk their marriage, their life and so many other things they hold near and dear for a POS like this? AND why would they keep it up for 4 years and into MC if they really were NOT in love with the OW??

Please enlighten me before I go out and buy myself a straight-jacket!!!!!

[This message edited by hopefulone23 at 4:05 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


BS (me)-52
WS (him)-51
Married: 20 years—together 28
D-Day: February, 2007
4+ Yr LTA w MOW, EA/PA
Update: Broke NC with same MOW 10/11!
Filed for D and Served WH 11/8/11

Posts: 755 | Registered: Mar 2008
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopefulone23,

I'm no psychologist, but I'd bet you already have a big part of the answer in your story. Your FWH's low self esteem and need for external validation made him a perfect target for a 'controlling, dominant OW'. His 'want' for you to get into MC was most likely a plea to have somebody save him from himself or the OW. You were the one person he could trust.

It might also explain why d'day might have been his ticket out of the A. He may not have been able to make that move on his own because of some sort of fear factor. I agree with you that if the A was that long term, there would surely be some sort of emotional backlash from your H. Seems pretty odd, but,then, every case and person is different. OW might have an abusive streak, and your WH was being held hostage by the threat of abuse....or isolation. It's hard to say.

It's hard to imagine that you have coexisted in your lives for as long as you describe with little or no intimacy...sexual or otherwise. You're going to need help unraveling this ball of string if the M is going to continue.

Good luck to you.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
hopefulone23
♀ Member
Member # 18769
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bear, thanks so much for your reply.

It's hard to imagine that you have coexisted in your lives for as long as you describe with little or no intimacy...sexual or otherwise. You're going to need help unraveling this ball of string if the M is going to continue.

Yes, you are so right with that!!! I honestly don't know how we did, or should I say how I did. He existed with the help of MOW to fulfill his physical and emotional needs, he also poured everything he had into our son.

I basically withdrew from him and from life in many ways by throwing myself into my work and becoming somewhat of a workaholic.

Like you said, it is very odd to have that long of an A and not have some emotional "backlash" post d-day. I wouldn't say that OW was overtly "abusive" or threatening in any way, but my H told me that it was like the weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders on d-day because the A had become "such a burden" for him.

He did try breaking it off with her on several occasions, but then after a few days or weeks, she'd text him and they'd start right back up again.

I forgot to mention that during the last few years of the A, my FWH also became addicted to strip clubs, which I discovered on d-day.

So I do believe that the OW/A was another "addiction" that he couldn't break away from.

But then there's even a more complicated question.....

How does one have a 4 yr LTA and be addicted to strip clubs and then POOF, both "vices" disappear into thin air?

I've asked this question in MC and the MC says that what's happened is my H has basically thrown all of that emotional/physical energy into me and our M and we've been intimate on a regular basis since d-day so his emotional/physical needs are now being met by me and our M.

IMO, I really believe he WAS in love with OW and did think about being with her forever, but he had also lost all hope for our M and was sure I wanted to D him for years.

Bottom line, it's all just a very sad, tragic tale, but hopefully one that can somehow have a happy ending.

It's been 6 months now and I still vascilate almost daily on whether I can ride out R or not, but we've been together almost a lifetime, have a beautiful son together, and most importantly, despite everything, we've re-discovered our love for each other which had been buried SOOO deeply for so long!

[This message edited by hopefulone23 at 5:46 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


BS (me)-52
WS (him)-51
Married: 20 years—together 28
D-Day: February, 2007
4+ Yr LTA w MOW, EA/PA
Update: Broke NC with same MOW 10/11!
Filed for D and Served WH 11/8/11

Posts: 755 | Registered: Mar 2008
brokenhearted58
♀ Member
Member # 19997
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it common for the WAS to not feel love for the BS while in the A? Do they then come to remember the love they had if they de-fog?

Posts: 101 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: getting on
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you are a WS with children, how do you feel about having brought infidleity into their lives? Do you apologize to the kids? Do you tell them about the cheating? Is it possible to keep something like this from them?

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokenhearted, I did feel love for my H during the A, but was sure that he didn't love me. (false assumption for sure) I never gave my H the ILYBNILWY thing- I don't get that at all.

I certainly was not behaving in a loving way during the A, but the feeling was still there. Mostly, I hated myself.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
girlalmostgone
♀ Member
Member # 4867
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ron IMO, children do not belong tangled up in adult problems.

Depending on the age must be taken into account.

For instance, younger kids can be told things like "Mom and Dad are working on things, however your job is to worry about *whatever age they are at the time* problems and let us worry about grown up problems.

Now if the kids are older, then it really is up to them to ask the parent who had the affair. And that is really up to them.

Now, if a parent who is a BS actively chooses to do bring the kids into this via talking or telling (yes, as parents I think all of us are guilty to some degree) just to look better or try to damage the relationship.. that can cause way more damage than ever thought.

Now granted there are some WS'rs who do a damn good job at ruining the relationship on their own.

Kind of like any bad parent, no matter what the curcimstances are.

Also IMO, if a child has questions, then it will be on their time line to ask if the want answers.

It really is a mixed bag of things, and depends on many different things.

Sorry Ron prolly not the answer you were looking for, but the best one I got for you.


Love is no assignment for cowards. Ovid

I just really feel like I am a hamster running on the wheel.. and I am ready to get off the wheel, and try running around in the hamster ball.. kinda like a free range chicken.


Posts: 37201 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Texas
brokendreamz
♀ Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank You!!!!! Thank you for the insight! Thank you for your kindness - just

THANK YOU!!!


Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HopefulOne -

How can someone carry on a PA/EA for 4 years, tell OW how much he loves her, wants to spend his life with her, wishes they were married instead, she's his soul mate, best friend, on and on, and then POOF!!! Just like that it all evaporates into thin air on d-day??

I don't think this is quite accurate. I said all those same things to my xMOW And starting the Monday night after D-Day, I made a clean break away from her.

But it didn't evaporate into thin air. I had triggers. I went through some pretty ugly withdrawal issues. Many I tried to keep internal, because I brought this on myself. My BW was the one I hurt, so I had no right to pile my own pain on her when she is the one I damaged. I couldn't take it to friends and family - having not been through infidelity it would have brought plenty of judgment and attacks. So there were many times when I simply tried to "put on a happy face" and press through it all.

What I also don't get is my FWH repeatedly insists that he "didn't really love her," but yet he couldn't let go of her, even when we started MC that he had pushed ME to start?

This is based on the impact the weakness of external validation has on how you see the world. You want someone else to stroke your ego so badly that when someone tells you how attractive you are, or how compassionate, or just how hot you are, you confuse the good feelings that feedback gives you for love. So I had said I love you numerous times to xMOW, but what I was really feeling was the impact of having someone else verify who I was instead of knowing it myself.

So please tell me, WSs, why would someone put themselves through 4 years of this crap, risk their marriage, their life and so many other things they hold near and dear for a POS like this? AND why would they keep it up for 4 years and into MC if they really were NOT in love with the OW??

For the same reason someone who drinks themselves into oblivion has another drink. For the same reason someone addicted to drugs shoots up again. You get a temporary high, then the effects wear off and you feel like crap. Yet instead of having the strength to fight through the withdrawal symptoms and return to being a healthy person, you obsess over getting your next fix. And the AP is happy to oblige, flirting, taunting, teasing you with words about how great you are. You get your fix, and then the ugly after effects hit. You sink, and then go looking for more positive feedback. The cycle continues until someone or something slaps you back into reality.

my H told me that it was like the weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders on d-day because the A had become "such a burden" for him.

This is EXACTLY how I felt. Not having to worry about the lies, the cover ups. Being able to leave a computer screen up or my BlackBerry out in full view and not really caring if my BW picked it up because I have nothing to hide. It is very liberating to a WS to reach this point.

How does one have a 4 yr LTA and be addicted to strip clubs and then POOF, both "vices" disappear into thin air?

How does a 30 year smoker simply quit and never have another one? Some impetus is stronger than the draw of the addiction. When my uncle saw my grandfather after he had a lung removed (he subsequently died from lung cancer), he chucked his cigarettes into the trash bin in the hospital room. He has not had one since to my knowledge.

When I saw the pain, the hurt, all that I had to lose in my BW and the girls following D-Day, it was a strong enough shock to my system to break the cycle.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokenhearted -

Is it common for the WAS to not feel love for the BS while in the A?

I wouldn't say I didn't feel love for my BW. It was more an issue of intense focus on the relationship with xMOW. So my mind was allowing the illusion of those feelings being more intense than those that I had for my BW.

Do they then come to remember the love they had if they de-fog?

Again, it's more like seeing the love that was always there. I am firmly convinced that if I did not love my BW deeply, we would be D by now. It was the strength of that love that helped me break my addiction to the ego stroking I mistook for love and allowed me to focus where I should have all along.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ron -

If you are a WS with children, how do you feel about having brought infidelity into their lives?

Ummmm, pretty crappy. No more or no less so than how bad I feel about having brought infidelity into the life of my BW.

Actually, that my not be entirely accurate. Because it's the effects of infidelity I feel worst about, not the term itself. I'm not upset about the "image", but it's effects. The fact that I was so withdrawn from my kids that I was not as active a participant in their lives. The fact that I know there were times I was short with them or inattentive to their needs because I was selfishly focused on my own. Those are the things that hurt the worst.

Do you apologize to the kids?
Do you tell them about the cheating?

My answer is no to both of these. Our kids are 16, 13, 9 and 7. For the oldest one, who is pretty perceptive, neither I not my BW has told her any details. She knows we were having issues that we were working through, but nothing more than that. With that said, it is imperative that I work as hard to heal my relationship with my kids as I have to R with my BW. I joined the National Fatherhood Initiative (fatherhood.org) to gain some focus and perspective on being more present for my kids. I am getting less and less defensive when criticized for not being or doing what I need to for our kids.

The good news is that for the major events in their lives, I have been there. Birthdays, graduations, shooting hoops, help with homework, plays, concerts - I've been there. that's more than I can say for some parents where there is no infidelity involved.

Is it possible to keep something like this from them?

I think it is. I think the big question you have to ask yourself is what good will come from sharing information that someone doesn't already know. We already know from this board that despite the pain, it is less painful to share the details of an A with a BS than to give trickle truth or hide information to protect them. But I don't feel the same is true with kids. What I owe them is as much focus as I can place on being present for them, now and in the future. Being an active part of their lives. That is of stronger benefit in my mind than any apology I could dream up.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by nlovemyfamily at 8:58 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)]


Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
daffodil
♀ Member
Member # 18134
Question  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in the wrong place - sorry!

WSs what are your memories of the affair now? Do you still have happy memories and feelings about it (although unspoken) or not in the cold light of DDay?


Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2008
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily,

Do you have any reliable information that would confirm whether or not your WH is still seeing the OW? If he's not, and hasn't been for a long while, then I'd say he's not in a fog. But he's sure doing some serious fence sitting and cake eating.

You indicate some failed R attempts in the past. Something's up for sure with him and his lack of commitment. It also sounds odd that he's still wiggling around in face of the imminent D in a month. Maybe he's waiting to see if you'll really fire the shot. Will you?

At this point I'd say he's not a good bet, but that's just my opinion.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
neverendinghurt
♀ Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thankyou Listeningclosely and manyregrets

it has taken two years for my WH to get it, and I am still not sure that he really has, I still think that there is more that has not come out yet.

I did press hard and cionsistently, but still it took so long.

and in all honesty, it has all but destroyed me and the love I had for him. I have never felt so lost in my life. never felt so lonely. he could have prevented a lot of the pain I have been through, by simply telling the truth from the start we may well have been if not fully reconcilled, at least part way there by now.

I don't recognise him any more.


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

daffodil -

WSs what are your memories of the affair now? Do you still have happy memories and feelings about it (although unspoken) or not in the cold light of DDay?

Under different circumstances (like not having been M), there might be happy memories with specific moments of the A. But the fact is that every memory is tainted by the fact that it should never have happened. Those memories are also tainted by the fact that xMOW had numerous faults which I deluded myself into not seeing until after I cleared my fog.

Now, after over a year since D-Day, there's not one memory of that time that doesn't carry with it the pain of the impact of that experience. So no, no happy memories for me. Only pain and anger at myself for who I allowed myself to become.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
daffodil
♀ Member
Member # 18134
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How often now do you think of the affair?

Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2008
badlyhurting
♀ Member
Member # 18915
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so lost...

WSs - My WS asked for a divorce last week, so I called the lawyer to get things started. This weekend, he backed up and said he wanted me to cancel the appt. I had made and to give things a few months.

What is going on? I really just want to be happy...but my WS says he doesn't trust me because I have been so angry. Didn't I have a right to be angry?

I'm only 9 months out...and I am exhausted by all of this. It isn't right or fair to me or our children...

Help! What is a WS supposed to do? Actions, I mean? It would just be so nice if I saw him working on himself, instead of pointing out what is "wrong" with me.


Me - 37 BW
Him - 50 WX/Sperm Donor
5 beautiful children
Dday 10/29/07 - day after my birthday, 23 days before birth of #5
Too Many False Rs; D final Feb. 09.

Posts: 2472 | Registered: Mar 2008
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