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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

daffodil -

How often now do you think of the affair?

I think a piece of it stays in my mind every day. It's not so much that it goes away, but the things I actively focus on are more around my BW and the kids.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
daffodil
♀ Member
Member # 18134
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LC for being so honest. What I am trying to find out is what exactly you think of every day of the affair and I know this is difficult to discuss.

Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

badlyhurting -

What is going on?

Have there been any idle threats in the past? It could very well be that he felt he could toss out the idea of you filing thinking you never would. Now that you are following through with it, he is being forced to understand the full impact of his words.

Just my $ .02 - I would consider continuing the process for a bit. It's not a D until the final judgment. You can still work on things, but he will have a time frame in which he needs to prove himself. Having a wishy washy "give it a few months" stalls his having to face the consequences of his actions.

Yes, you have a right to be angry. But in a healthy R, there is a balance of letting out pain while acknowledging positive progress.

What is a WS supposed to do? Actions, I mean?

A regretful WS focuses on the error of being caught and looks for blame in the BS. A remorseful WS learns about how they were broken and to blame for the A, and focuses on selfless acts that will help restore their M.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read several pages, but not all 19...so maybe I missed a question similar to mine.

My WH is addicted to his A. He thinks he wants to spend the rest of his life with this person - maybe he does, maybe he doesn't know. (background, EA started probably like January or February of this year, turned PA in March; d-day was in May. She lives in another state, but they manage to see each other few times a month and appear to talk quite a bit).

Anyway, he is moving out soon, a decision we both made - I suggested and he accepted. He says he wants a 6 months or less lease. That gave me hope...but then again, who the heck knows?

So anyway, I see that S is pretty much counterproductive (makes sense!) if one hopes to R. Did anyone here S and then R?

I know I can't force or control anything WH does, so there's no "you must stay, you must do NC now...etc." but I am now really nervous about S. At first I thought he would use the time to think, but I believe the way he compartmentalizes, he'll just have more freedom.

I am filing for D, I'm pretty sure. I'm filing more right now to protect kids & I for separation (where I live, you file for D first, then it becomes a S - there's no filing for S, from what I understood from lawyer).

Did anyone's BS file? Was this a wake-up call? Or did it seal the deal for you?

I know I sound desperate, hell I am! But I am scared too.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

daffodil,

The A is on my mind every single day. The content of my thoughts is changing. While I was early out from d'day I was torn between my sorrow for getting caught and keeping my memories about xOMW very positive. As time has gone past, I've thought less about the positives of the A, and more about the negatives, particularly how this has destroyed the trust between my BW and me. Oh, I still drift back into the fantasy of the A now and then. I haven't reached 'indifference' yet, but it's getting closer. I'm getting alot of help from many, many folks here to keep me chuggging forward.

I don't suppose the A will ever be completely out of my mind. It is a part of me forever, and it will always be a black mark on my soul.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
lisaloo
♀ Member
Member # 20082
Question  Posted: 9:19 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What would cause a WS to just attempt to pretend as though you dont actually know what happened (despite having confronted him), to brush the event off as just flirting (the whole, "yeah, I apologize I let it get a little out of hand...blah blah blah...next topic) or to just go on and on in conversation as though nothing has changed? How can a WS just go on talking about things that we can do later for fun or, "Oh, I did this today..." as though NOTHING has changed?? Is this a sign of a total lack of regret AND remorse or is this some sort of wishful thinking/coping mechanism?? And how do I get past this with my husband so that we can work toward SOMETHING??


Me: 33 STBXH: 34 DD: 8
D Day (EA): 6-19-08
D Day #2 (SA): 7-5-10
D Day #3 (EA): 11-8-13
WH moved out: 11-18-13
Moved BACK IN (because the lawyer told him to): 11/29/13.
Filed for Divorce: 12-9-13
In house separation...fun, fun, fun.

Posts: 474 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: AL
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lisaloo,

Most likely it's conflict avoidance. WS is probably in a state of shock, and doesn't know what to do next. You may have to sieze control by laying out what you expect: i.e. full disclosure, immediate NC, etc. It's a surreal time for both of you.

Many, many WSs got into the jam we're in because we were avoiding some sort of conflict all along. I think that's what you're dealing with.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Two questions: Do you consider your affair to have been emotionally abusive?
Second, what has been the effect on your spouse's self esteem? Are they reluctant to be intimate and vulnerable to you?( Guess that's three.)

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
hopefulintx
♀ Member
Member # 19890
Default  Posted: 1:46 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(Wannabenormal)

My WS said he wanted to move out for a month to get his head on straight. That was 4 1/2 months ago. He's still gone and now he's living the single life and still seeing his OW. He says he's happy. I would recommend not seperating if your WS is considering R. Mine said he would not go to counciling and continued to talk to the OW in our house so I asked him to leave. There is no way anyone can concentrate, give 100% and commit to their spouse when there is a distraction (OW) and they now have their freedom to talk to them all they want without having to hide. That was my biggest argument since he's been gone, I kept telling him to go NC with the other woman so that he could focus on our marriage while he was gone but he chose not too. Now it looks like D for us.
Hopeful


The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.
Me: BW: 49 He: WH: 45
Married 17 years, together 20
1 DD (15)
DDay: 02/24/08
H moved out 03/18/08
Accepted it's over an

Posts: 200 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: TX
SoDisappointed
♀ Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 2:11 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What did you think about at night when you were laying beside your BS, who had no clue? Did you play over the day's events with the OP? Did you feel guilt, remorse for what you were doing or were you too foggy to see it that way while actively in the A?


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal -

So anyway, I see that S is pretty much counterproductive (makes sense!) if one hopes to R. Did anyone here S and then R?

Not for us. In fact, right after D-Day I asked and Wells refused. She gave me until Monday to make a phone call to one of two people, a counselor or an attorney. She left that choice to me, but I had to choose one or the other. Thankfully, I chose the right one!

I know I can't force or control anything WH does, so there's no "you must stay, you must do NC now...etc." but I am now really nervous about S.

I'm curious why you say it this way. You can't control your WH's decisions, but you can focus the choices down to what you will and will not accept. In our case, Wells refused to put our kids through a time frame where Dad was there, then not, back and forth. So I was either in the M or not - there was no third option. And if I was out it would be D, not S.

At first I thought he would use the time to think, but I believe the way he compartmentalizes, he'll just have more freedom.

Assuming the fog is not cleared, this is what I would expect. Had I been granted my request for S, I would not have established NC, and thus would never do anything but cake eat until forced to change.

I am filing for D, I'm pretty sure. I'm filing more right now to protect kids & I for separation (where I live, you file for D first, then it becomes a S - there's no filing for S, from what I understood from lawyer).

At this point you need to trust the legal advice you get. Rules are so local in how they operate and what will provide the best protection for all involved.

Did anyone's BS file? Was this a wake-up call? Or did it seal the deal for you?

Wells never filed, but I knew damn well if I made the wrong choice she would. I never tested that path.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lisaloo -

What would cause a WS to just attempt to pretend as though you don't actually know what happened (despite having confronted him), to brush the event off as just flirting (the whole, "yeah, I apologize I let it get a little out of hand...blah blah blah...next topic) or to just go on and on in conversation as though nothing has changed?

This is usually an effort to avoid facing the full impact of what you have done. While it's not remorse, and likely not even truly regret, it doesn't mean dismissal in all cases. More often it's trying to find an escape. The A was an escape from the real world and it's pressures. When that gets taken away, many WS's will look for another escape route - usually the path that requires the least amount of effort. That's what you would see here.

How can a WS just go on talking about things that we can do later for fun or, "Oh, I did this today..." as though NOTHING has changed?? Is this a sign of a total lack of regret AND remorse or is this some sort of wishful thinking/coping mechanism??

This comes from a feeling inside that you can never change the past, so dwelling on it will just keep sucking you down into a dark place you are trying to get away from. There have been many times when I simply wanted to look forward. They were rooted in the fact that I knew how destructive my past actions were, that I could not undo any of them, and that every time we went back to explore them it depressed me a little more that I could sink to that level.

And how do I get past this with my husband so that we can work toward SOMETHING??

Maintain the foundation of healing from an A for a WS:

No contact
Full transparency
IC and MC
Open communication, even if you have to force it for a while.

Leveraging books like After the Affair to spark conversation and to face the issues is a great tool. The Emotional Needs Questionnaire at marriagebuilders.com and info on the Five Love Languages (fivelovelanguages.com) are also very helpful.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ron -

No extra charge for the third question

Do you consider your affair to have been emotionally abusive?

While I hadn't considered applying that term to it, it does seem like a fair definition. During the A, I withdrew from my family. I forced my BW into a single parent role she never asked for. While we were still intimate, I was not open in telling her the things that were concerning me, and I was sharing positive images with someone other than her. So yes, I would say it was emotionally abusive.

Second, what has been the effect on your spouse's self esteem?

She took a huge blow to her self confidence. Prior to D-Day, she considered herself (and gave all outward appearances) of a focused, driven, confident woman who had achieved a great deal of success in raising a family, in her career, etc. I yanked that rug out from underneath her. She has recovered quite a bit, but is still stressed because things she was passionate about before no longer inspire her, because her focus is not as precise and because she is less confident that she definitely has the answers.

Are they reluctant to be intimate and vulnerable to you?.

She was at first, but over time we were able to grow close again. It was only after a good amount of effort on my part to prove to her that this was a "one time error" and not something that defined who I am that she opened back up to me.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoDisappointed -

What did you think about at night when you were laying beside your BS, who had no clue? Did you play over the day's events with the OP?

Yes, I did replay the day's events with xMOW. I had let myself drift away from my BW and the kids so much that my focus was away from them. I was withdrawn. Evenings would end up spent with me either in my office or in the bedroom on the computer and my BW on the living room couch watching TV. We would go to bed, saying just a "good night" and maybe an "I love you" and she would drift off asleep. There was no connection between us, because I had allowed it to be severed.

Did you feel guilt, remorse for what you were doing or were you too foggy to see it that way while actively in the A?

Way too foggy. I just wasn't focused - on anything by xMOW. And it wasn't just my family either. I wasn't focused on my job and my performance slipped to horrible levels. I am still trying to recover in that area as well and it's a huge struggle.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
drowninginsorrow
♀ Member
Member # 4545
Red  Posted: 7:42 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

a gentle reminder to BS posting on this thread the the questions are for WS, and to not answer by proxy for your WS


Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come.- Matt Groening
"I've found the secret to life. I'm ok when everything is not ok"- Tori Amos lyrics

Posts: 56712 | Registered: Jun 2004 | From: canuckistan
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks listening - I guess I'm afraid of telling him in or out because he is seeming to choose out. D-day was months ago, he hasn't slowed down with the OW - he's looking at an apt. today even.

I'm visiting 2 lawyers myself this afternoon. I just hate this!

Thanks hopeful too. That's what I'm thinking my WH is going to do - like living the 'free' (free from responsibility) life too much.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
SoDisappointed
♀ Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the WS's who have been left by their BS's, what do/did you do to become happy again?

When did you start to lose the shame associated with the A? Did you need IC to get past all that and think that you were "worthy" again?

Do you miss what you had?

Mods...I hope these are general enough questions! I'm trying!


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
awife
♀ Member
Member # 1014
Happy  Posted: 6:37 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all the FWS for their honesty and willingness to answer all these questions!

Posts: 548 | Registered: Jan 2003
booya1975
♂ New Member
Member # 20300
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need advice. Am I helping or making things worse.

My WW was rather remourseful until about a week after D-Day. Then her resentment towards me started to come to the surface. She claims that she can't see being happy with me but whenever I try to leave she stops me. She says sometimes she thinks it will work and other times she does not. So far as I know she has not had contact with OM although she says she still loves him.

I have changed my strategy in how I deal with her. I am trying to let go of the negative feelings I have so as to re-engage her in our relationship. I have read other BS say that it was some time after D-Day that their WS actually showed true remourse. WW is going to IC couselling once a week. I am also going to IC.

WW seems to go back and forth. She gives me a kiss every now and then, but thats as far as the affection goes. She did say the other day that she thinks we are heading in the right direction. It's hard for me to tell when she's being honest. She's spent so much time lying to me that I wonder if she can stop.

At some point in time I intend to make sure she takes 100% responsibility for having an affair, and 50% responsibility for the problems that led to it. But I don't think that's going to happen until she really WANTS us to work.

Am I on the right course? Some might say that by allowing her to indulge in her own foggy perceptions that I'm just validating them. Any suggestions?


Me: BS (33)
Her WW (29)
D-Day: 6/16/08
Together 14 years;
Married 9 years;
son (8) daughter (6)

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

booya1975 -

Am I on the right course? Some might say that by allowing her to indulge in her own foggy perceptions that I'm just validating them. Any suggestions?

The early stages of withdrawl can be pretty hard. My brain was bouncing back and forth between what I gave up (xMOW) and what I committed to (my BW). It took me several months to purge my addiction to xMOW from my system to the point where I can say I was totally focused on my BW and our R.

With that said, I think there were some key things my BW did that ensured I would clear my fog and turn myself around:

1. Neither one of us left. In order to ensure we could work as a team on things, we had to live in the same house. I could not be given the opportunity to break NC with xMOW, which would have easily been done if we lived apart.

2. We worked together on the process of R. We bought two copies of "After the Affair". As we got to a point where we both had read a chapter, we would discuss it together and find areas of agreement and areas if difference. These conversations were actually very calm and I can't recall them ever turning into arguments of any kind.

3. I already knew my BW was a strong woman, that she could certainly survive on her own and that her telling me we either focused on R or we would D was not an idle threat. If you have mentioned leaving and her pleas have brought you back, she may feel like you won't be strong enough to break away from her if she doesn't do what you need her to. Readup on the 180 in the Healing Library. I certainly think you need to consider it.

4. She shared SI with me. Through getting strong feedback from a lot of folks here, I was able to see more clearly my own faults, to learn to own my shit and to focus on giving my BW what she needed to heal. It's one thing to hear about taking full accountability for your A from your BS. It's quite another to hear it from other FWS's, many of whom could relate to exactly what I was going through.

Consider a 180 to strengthen your own resolve, give her the tools she needs to acknowledge her flaws and work on them, and you will then be headed in the right direction.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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