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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Coffey77
♂ Member
Member # 19660
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal-

I'm a BS as well and have found these things to be quite true of most situations. Reading things here has been like reading my own A story.

My WH is addicted to his A. He thinks he wants to spend the rest of his life with this person

Mine too. I somewhat believe she's actually questioning it more nowadays but I don't really know for sure. That's for her to tell, hopefully, someday.
Anyway, he is moving out soon, a decision we both made - I suggested and he accepted.

I'm throwing a caution flag up here. I read about this at one point when I first found out about the A and it didn't make total sense at first but I believe it to be true now. I believe that if she had left right when I found out, she would have been leaving to "free" herself to be with him. Having her own place, which she was oddly not scared to do because she is quite afraid to be alone (of course I didn't notice this way back when - just noticed it now actually so that might just confirm my suspicions.)would have given her freedom from me watching her and keeping an eye on her phone and everything else. She would have been "free" to the A big time. Him letting you make the decision just frees him more. Now he can say, "you told me I could go!" The WS is all about self and pointing fingers away from them. They truly live a life of lies during an A. This can also apply toward "being in love" that they think they are with this other person. More than likely, that too is a lie to justify the person they have become.

My other suggestion... Tell.

Tell people like his family, your family. Maybe even call his OW's husband if she has one. Get it out there. He'll be mad but, too bad. Hiding it is exactly what a WS has been trying to do the whole time. NOTE: be a little careful about who you tell. I suggest family, a very close friend, and if you're having trouble at work, tell your boss if you feel you can approach them. Friends don't really need to know - I learned that mistake as now it will be more difficult to be with my friends should my WS chose to return. The elephant will be very large in the room so we'll have to do some cleanup if even possible.

I don't think it's a bad idea to get the papers. It's up to you to deceide if you want to reconcile or just end it. Marriage's can be rebuilt. There are many success stories here proving that. I am still hopefull with my own but time will tell that. Not sure if it's good or bad but to be perfectly honest, I'm a much better person post-A than I was pre-A. The world has opened up to me. The A was a big slap in the face that I was doing a lot of things wrong - but nothing as wrong as to justify an A. That is something my WW "owns" and will have to face.

My hat is off to those WS's who have "owned" their A's. You, too, are truly remarkable people.

[This message edited by Coffey77 at 4:43 AM, July 31st (Thursday)]


"I alone am responsible for my choices"
"Forgiveness is freedom from the past. The wrong can never be undone but it can be forgiven and thereby rendered powerless."
"I reserve the right - to be wrong."

D-Day Jan. '08


Posts: 66 | Registered: May 2008
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

booya -

At some point in time I intend to make sure she takes 100% responsibility for having an affair, and 50% responsibility for the problems that led to it. But I don't think that's going to happen until she really WANTS us to work.

Am I on the right course?

You are on the right track!

I read your first post in JFO and just wanted to let you know.... I am 1.5 year out of FWW. I had 7 year long term PA/EA that was product of threesome lifestyle. Having OMs were norm in our M. If you are interested, please read my story that is in my profile. But I moved it in the journal in my profile that is dated 7/15/08. I was asexual for 1 year though.... What I needed was to He-tox from my system, so that I could be virgin again for my H.

We are 150% reconciled. Our lifestyle changed 180 degree. We are happier than ever!!

If you want to talk, you can PM me anytime.

Hugs.. Hang in there.

I also put the link to my entire story and how I came out of the other side.


[This message edited by beach at 10:33 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
brokendreamz
♀ Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can a BS explain to a FWS what they need without being "too needy"? And why is the BS responsible for giving the FWS a guide or step by step instructions on what the BS needs?

Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
Janis
♀ Member
Member # 18656
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some thoughts/questions for WS's from BS:

H has been NC since a month after d-day. Has always maintained they were just friends until several months before and then went to "phone sex"...(said they had no physical contact)has acknowledged that eventually it would have gone physical (which is why he did not see her) just talked to her. He started calling her 7 years ago. She is married with children--none are his.

I had phone records going back all 7 years--never thought to check on them until that night...
(1) If they were calling each other 4 times on Valentines day (2007), Called her First after our son's surgery (both times in 2006), called her on Mother's day (2007),from every airport, etc...that he was never emotionally involved and was "just a friend" ? Or is that just what he told himself ?
(When told the dates/calls he just looked down as I told him that was emotional not a friend)Also Feb. 6th was her birthday and he was in his own world that day but did not call her--isn't that someone who was emotionally involved ? (He is not aware I know of her birthday--I just watched him all day to see what he would do..)

When asked what he told her--he said he did not tell her I had found out just that he would not be calling her anymore and since she was married that she should be able to figure it out. When asked where she thought it was going he said he didn't know and didn't care. When asked where he was going with it he said he didn't know but he had never planned on leaving me.
Does any of this make sense ?


(2) When first confronted he said he didn't think I would care....what kind of stuff is that ?

(3) Within several days after D-day, He was the one who asked for R, He was the one who wanted us to both wear our wedding rings (we had not worn our in years)...why?
(He had went to a therapist--I just found out--several years ago to see how to "fix this" but since the therapist just told him that is why he wasn't married he never went back. He never said a word to me--he just kept calling Her--Shy wouldn't he then try to talk/do something with me ?

He has had no contact since Jan 15 and has been doing everything right. She has tried to text him off and on but not since the end of April--H birthday is this weekend so I am keeping my eyes and ears open.

I am having a hard time right now Not calling her to see if her story confirms his...but don't want to mess up our R--as we have our up and down times (mostly me--he seems to be holding strong) Opinions please !!

Lastly (I think !!)--when I am upset/crying or wake up from bad dreams he just holds me (which he hadn't done in 20+ years)--Does this mean anything in particular ?
(he has always said he is selfish and is not emotional--he is an x-marine who was in combat a long time ago)

Should also add when my mom died in "84, he had me move out as "I was not taking care of him and the house". This was two weeks after my mom died.(From the time she was told she had cancer to the day she died was 2 months and I was 26 years old) I was still 15 pounds over what I was before I had been pregnant but that began my downward spiral to gaining over 100 pounds (up until d-day)--have lost 90 lbs
since then...I know I was feeding my emotional pain over so many things and as I got bigger, he wouldn't take me anywhere or do anything with me--with only added to my need for comfort and so it was a big circle---but I was always a person inside who still needed the same things I needed when I was slender...Does any of this make any sense ?

He was so checked out that he didn't even realize that my last birthday was my 50th even though I did everything but put it up in neon signs !!!
(We did not do anything--he spent his time elsewhere and was busy on the phone) Don't think I can celebrate my birthday this year--just too painful...
Our Anniversary is on the 21st--waiting to see what he does or suggests. A while ago I had mentioned re-newing wedding vows--he did not even remember what they were--I wrote them out for him and he read them---hasn't said a word about them since.....

Sorry for the ramble--any thoughts any of you have on all of this would be appreciated...


me-52
ws-61
together 28 yrs (married 16 yrs)
2 boys--21yrs and 27 yrs
D-Day 12/4/2007
?EA for 10+ years (maybe always)
"just friends".....
R..One Day at a Time
Let the Facts be Your Guide...Not Your Emotions....


Posts: 167 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: California
thatgirl7
♀ New Member
Member # 20449
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for the WS's My boyfriend said his reason for cheating the second time was that he knew she wanted to have sex with him but he thought it wouldn't happen and also that it was a thrill/exciting sneaking around. has this been any other WS reasoning and if so can/did you stop? What will it take to get him to stop? Our sex life was always alive and passionate and he was cheating from the beginning

Posts: 10 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: KC
prettyfuture
♀ Member
Member # 17293
Default  Posted: 1:59 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi brokendreamz.

How can a BS explain to a FWS what they need without being "too needy"? And why is the BS responsible for giving the FWS a guide or step by step instructions on what the BS needs?

I don't look at it as if my BF is "responsible" for giving me a guide, but it is just really helpful for me, and most people I think, to know for sure what our partner wants/ needs so that we can do it. It's easier to get your needs met if you express them.

My BF is the quiet, conflict avoider type and I felt lost for a really long time, like, what is he feeling? What does he need to heal? Does he even really want to stay with me or is he unsure?

I wanted him to tell me what to do but he always told me he just wants us to move forward and he just needs time and space to feel secure and like he can trust me again.

I understand your question but it took me awhile to realize that my BF was thinking somewhere along those lines. It's like, why didn't I just naturally know what a person needs to heal from this-- continued and consistent love, honesty and reassurance? It seems easy and now I finally understand that all I can really do for *my* BF is to be patient and tell and SHOW him I love him, and not do anything that makes him question that.

But when I read about BS on here who wanted all the details, who wanted full transparency and passwords, etc., I thought maybe that's what BF needed but didn't know he could ask for, and didn't even know he needed. So I would try to talk to him about my affair and ask him what details he wanted to know. I would offer my passwords to emails and voicemails. But he would say, no, he doesn't want to police me, he knows enough, he doesn't want the grimy details. I was afraid this meant he was sweeping it under the rug and not really healing, but now I realize that everyone heals in their own way. He doesn't want to mire in the past; he wants to move on towards the future. He knows what he needs in his own way and it is up to ME to figure that out, and a lot of it is common sense: show him love and accountability and answer any question or fulfill any request that he has.

So I understand, but I still think it's easier if you DO have questions/ requests/ things you need, to tell your WS plainly because if your WS really is remorseful then he or she will want to help you heal in any she or he can... and knowledge about what will help you heal is half the battle.

I wouldn't worry about sounding needy or clingy if your WS is acting remorseful. I would request a time to talk to talk to your WS, hopefully you are in MC?, or just sit down one on one and let your WS know your thoughts and your requests. If your WS is foggy and NOT doing things to help you heal, then you need to establish boundaries and tell your WS, I need THIS (complete NC, transparency, time... whatever it is that you need) in order to go forward in this relationship with you. I won't settle for less than I deserve. If you phrase it like that, you sound strong and in control, not "whiny" or begging for information. Let your WS know that the ball is in his or her court. He or she has the opportunity to fix the damage or not, and you have the decision of whether to stay if your WS is trying or leave if your WS is not trying.

Good luck and I hope I've helped.

PF.


Me: FWF (fiance), 28
I broke off engagement: May '07, then he found out about EA
I confessed PA: Oct. '07 and we started R.
In true R since Feb. '08
RE-ENGAGED: 10/08/09
Getting married in Oct. 2010 :)

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Dec 2007
prettyfuture
♀ Member
Member # 17293
Default  Posted: 2:09 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi thatgirl.

I have a question for the WS's My boyfriend said his reason for cheating the second time was that he knew she wanted to have sex with him but he thought it wouldn't happen and also that it was a thrill/exciting sneaking around. has this been any other WS reasoning and if so can/did you stop? What will it take to get him to stop? Our sex life was always alive and passionate and he was cheating from the beginning

Honey, your boyfriend is blame-shifting and you should not take any responsibility for his bad actions. Maybe your sex life was always good because he was always cheating and he is broken inside and doesn't know how to have a healthy normal relationship so cheating gives him that rush. I guarantee you that even if you were having great sex 3 times a day, he could still cheat and still try to find a way to blame it on you.

And as far as making him stop, I'm sorry but you can't. Only HE can decide he wants to change and really change. He is in charge of his actions and you are in charge of yours. His blame shifting and justifying shows me he is not really remorseful; he should be taking full responsibility for his affair and apologizing and reassuring you that it was not your fault.

I have read your story in JFO and I think you have some big decisions to make. I'm sorry hon but this guy has proven himself to be a repeated serial cheater; he cheats more often than he doesn't! Those are his decisions to make and your decision is whether or not you want to stay with someone like that and why? Whatever you do, don't blame yourself for HIS cheating or buy into his stupid attempts to blame shift.

Best wishes and hugs. I know you are going through a really hard time and it sucks.


Me: FWF (fiance), 28
I broke off engagement: May '07, then he found out about EA
I confessed PA: Oct. '07 and we started R.
In true R since Feb. '08
RE-ENGAGED: 10/08/09
Getting married in Oct. 2010 :)

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Dec 2007
prettyfuture
♀ Member
Member # 17293
Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Janis. I'm sorry but my opinion is that there are a lot of things about your husband's story that don't sound right to me and cause red flags to be raised in my mind. 7 years and they never met in person?? Yet he was calling her from airports and on mother's day?? I just don't see how they wouldn't have met up at least once or occasionally in all that time and how just phone conversation and phone sex could have kept their tie that strong.

I think you should do some more digging and demand the truth. You are afraid to mess up R but the truth will never mess things up, it only helps. If he is remorseful he should give you the truth, you deserve it. Tell him you want to call and get her side of the story and watch his reaction. Ask him to take a lie detector test. Tell him you need to make sure you have all the truth to move on. You love him but the truth is important to forgiveness and you need it.

Best wishes. I really feel for you and I think if you dig deeper you will find more truth and even if it will be hard to take, you will feel less confused.


Me: FWF (fiance), 28
I broke off engagement: May '07, then he found out about EA
I confessed PA: Oct. '07 and we started R.
In true R since Feb. '08
RE-ENGAGED: 10/08/09
Getting married in Oct. 2010 :)

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Dec 2007
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokendreamz -

How can a BS explain to a FWS what they need without being "too needy"?

It helps to know what our BS's need, but it also helps to know when we are actually hitting the mark. I think at times there is such a focus on what's missing that we forget to acknowledge the things that are changing for the good. The result is the feeling of being under constant attack to do more, without ever knowing if what you did before was of any value.

It also helps if the giving is in both directions. I had to do a lot to help Wells heal, but she admitted there were things she could change to help our M be better for both of us. Knowing we were both working at this made a huge difference.

And why is the BS responsible for giving the FWS a guide or step by step instructions on what the BS needs?

It's a pretty simple math equation. WS who didn't know how to make their BS happy before (thus the M had issues) + WS who withdrew from their BS during the A (thus they have no clue what has been important to their BS in recent months/year) + WS who needs to weed out what mattered to xOP but not to their BS = a WS who needs a roadmap. When I emerged from my fog, I was completely and totally lost. I knew vaguely what might make Wells happy, but had no confidence that it would. Through her "coaching", I was able to reorient myself to the things that help her continue to want me as her life long partner.

If you don't literally want to give a step by step list, you can consider using thought provoking questions that might help lead your WS to the right answers. Something like "if you were planning a date night out for us, what things do you think I would like to do?".

But no one is a mind reader. Just hoping your WS will "get you" and know exactly what you need, especially when they changed what your needs are by having an A, is asking for frustration.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Janis -

that he was never emotionally involved and was "just a friend" ? Or is that just what he told himself ?

There's no doubt in my mind that it was an EA. But keep in mind that when we give in to the addiction of an EA, it's an addiction to the positive feedback we are receiving from OP. It's possible that your WH is struggling with splitting apart his addictive feelings from what "true love" is. But they were definitely not "just friends".

When first confronted he said he didn't think I would care....what kind of stuff is that ?

When a WS has a low opinion of themselves, they tell themselves that their BS will figure that's just the loser I married and will either further beat them up over it or will leave them for someone better. this type of attitude comes straight from assuming that your BS already figures you aren't worth being in their lives.

He was the one who asked for R, He was the one who wanted us to both wear our wedding rings (we had not worn our in years)...why?

Because the reality of D-Day exposes what you are risking, and for some of us we get desperate looking for anything that will be a sign that we can heal what we have broken.

wouldn't he then try to talk/do something with me ?

Not if, like me, he has a dreadful fear of conflict. Rather than face the battle with you (which he assumes he's going to lose anyway), he just clams up and keeps everything inside.

I am having a hard time right now Not calling her to see if her story confirms his...but don't want to mess up our R--as we have our up and down times (mostly me--he seems to be holding strong) Opinions please !!

You have to decide which will give you what you need to heal. If you need verification from another source to move forward, it may be necessary to compare stories. But keep in mind that OP can deceive as much as a WS will, and that you contacting OP opens a door to potential breakdowns in NC.

IMHO, NC is NC for both BS and WS. The focus needs to be on each other to heal, and on no one outside the M. Unless lack of confirmation with OP is a deal breaker, I would stick to working on helping each other heal, and leave OP out of it.

Lastly (I think !!)--when I am upset/crying or wake up from bad dreams he just holds me (which he hadn't done in 20+ years)--Does this mean anything in particular ?

It is the only thing a WS knows to do to help heal. Our words are now worthless or close to worthless. So the only thing we can think to do is to hold our BS close to comfort them.

I was always a person inside who still needed the same things I needed when I was slender...Does any of this make any sense ?

It makes sense that you see that change, but know that nothing about the A had anything to do with how you looked. A person can be married to the hottest supermodel in the world and still be totally inattentive to them when they are wrapped up in an A. The changes in you were not an impact at all. It was all flaws within your BH.

You need to decide how you both want to adjust to celebrating key dates. I feel incredibly blessed that Wells still feels comfortable celebrating key dates. I think we are both keeping the good memories from our past (there were still plenty), setting aside the bad ones, and being intent on creating new wonderful memories in our future. Next year will be our 20th anniversary, and we are both looking forward an awesome escape to our One Particular Harbour!


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thatgirl -


has this been any other WS reasoning and if so can/did you stop? What will it take to get him to stop?

My reasoning for my EA was not the same. But for me, the healing process is still the same. Follow the fundamentals of R:

No Contact
Honesty
Transparency
Communicate
IC/MC

Of each of these, the most important in halting his wrong actions is the work he does in IC. He needs to determine what it was within him that allowed him to say it was ok to have an A. He then needs to develop ways to prevent those factors from impacting him again in the future.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Livinalie92
♀ New Member
Member # 19823
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please help me with this one. My FWH says he did not enjoy sex with his 2 OW. However, he supposedly engaged in sex twice with each of them. What I don't understand is why would he go back for 2nd's if the first times were disappointing. Is he
telling me this to save my feelings or can this possibly be true. I don't understand this.


What goes around, comes around.

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Margaritaville
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fWS's.

First, thank you ALL for your insight and advice throughout these forums. You've each been very insightful in helping us BS's understand a bit more of our fWS's - and perhaps, in helping us, you and your SO's have benefited.

My question is: What can a BS do (act, say, etc.) that will help their fWS come to accept forgiveness from their spouse, God and to reach the point of forgiving themselves?

Right now, his inability to accept forgiveness and to forgive himself are damaging and eroding our relationship and leaving me questioning our future.

(It's been nearly 1 year since his ONS, a little over 10 months since he confessed.)

I understand that he has to reach these "places" himself, but he seems unable to.

Is there something I can say, do, etc. that will help him reach these places?

Edited for stupid spelling error - not enough coffee this morning!

[This message edited by Devestatedx5 at 9:12 AM, July 31st (Thursday)]


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
prettyfuture
♀ Member
Member # 17293
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi livingalie.

Please help me with this one. My FWH says he did not enjoy sex with his 2 OW. However, he supposedly engaged in sex twice with each of them. What I don't understand is why would he go back for 2nd's if the first times were disappointing. Is he
telling me this to save my feelings or can this possibly be true. I don't understand this.

It is hard to know whether he's telling the truth about this but he very well could be. From what I've heard on SI, most WS do *not* enjoy having sex with the OP. In the short run it is more something they do to feel better about themselves or get a "high". In the long run, they are disgusted with themselves and unable to enjoy true intimacy with anyone including OP. Sometimes their thinking is so messed up that they think, "WHY am I doing this? I don't even enjoy it," and yet they do it anyway.

Good luck to you, I think there is a good chance he is telling the truth and it's hard to confirm something like that so unless you think he is lying about most things, I'd advise giving him the benefit of the doubt on that one and thinking of it as someone who needs a drug but they don't even enjoy the drug, they know they are not getting a benefit from it and it's in fact detrimental to them, but they do it anyway because of internal issues.


Me: FWF (fiance), 28
I broke off engagement: May '07, then he found out about EA
I confessed PA: Oct. '07 and we started R.
In true R since Feb. '08
RE-ENGAGED: 10/08/09
Getting married in Oct. 2010 :)

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Dec 2007
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Devestated -

What can a BS do (act, say, etc.) that will help their fWS come to accept forgiveness from their spouse, God and to reach the point of forgiving themselves?

First, I would reverse the order you listed. I had to learn to forgive myself first, then allow forgiveness from God. Those two efforts set me up to accept the forgiveness I finally received from Wells.

Every person is a bit different in how they become self aware. In my case, I learn best from analogies and examples. Three specifically helped me in my process.

First, I discovered the concept of our lives being like a book. Each "era" of our life is a chapter in our story. Like any book, there are chapters that are intense and great, while others are dark and disappointing. Yet we decide whether or not the book was good based on it's full content, not based on just one chapter. My A was a dark chapter of my story, but it doesn't define whether I am good or bad. As long as I have more chapters in my life that are good than those that are bad, my life overall is valuable and worthwhile.

The second analogy was the one of establishing a reset point. The analogy I used for myself was that of the story of "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe". In the story, during the era of the White Witch, the world was always winter and never Christmas. As the characters turned toward the right path, the enchantment was broken. Christmas came, followed by spring. My life as a FWS took a similar path, where I had the opportunity to make the decision to leave my wrong choices behind, make good ones moving forward and allow the process of healing to happen.

Finally, my church denomination helped with my reaching forgiveness with God. In our denomination, there is a tag line that reads "No matter who you are or where you are on life's journey, you're welcome here". There is an emphasis on the concepts of repentance, forgiveness and Grace, which make it much easier to accept that forgiveness. Add to that Wells' forgiveness of me, and I had a clear example of Grace personified!


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
prettyfuture
♀ Member
Member # 17293
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi devastated.

My question is: What can a BS do (act, say, etc.) that will help their fWS come to accept forgiveness from their spouse, God and to reach the point of forgiving themselves?

Right now, his inability to accept forgiveness and to forgive himself are damaging and eroding our relationship and leaving me questioning our future.

(It's been nearly 1 year since his ONS, a little over 10 months since he confessed.)

I understand that he has to reach these "places" himself, but he seems unable to.

Is there something I can say, do, etc. that will help him reach these places?

We had and to some extent have the same problem. My BF has forgiven me and wants us to be able to move on but I am so disgusted by what I did and sometimes I get stuck in my past and I can't forgive myself.

I began to realize that this was detrimental to our relationship. I think it is so sweet of you to want to help your WS forgive himself and move on together. You must love him so much.

What helped me was that my BF continually told me that I'm a good person who made a mistake (I don't even look at it that way but he does) and that I am now doing the right thing and he is so happy that we are together. He said I beat myself up too much and that I should be kinder to myself. (My therapist says the same thing.) Unfortunately it took quite awhile to sink it, I think it's just a process and a necessary ingredient is patience... and hope too!

Because eventually I did start to see that he was right, and that no matter how much I screwed up, he still wanted to be with me and why ruin that by doubting it or hating myself all the time? So I think you should just continually tell him that you think he is a good person and you love him and you would do it all over again if you could because despite the hurt, you are so happy for the relationship (if that's true of course. )

But in the end only HE can forgive himself, you can support him and reassure him but it has to sink in and that's the hard part that you may not have any control over. Is he in counseling? I feel I am taking baby steps towards fully forgiving myself and looking at my A as being in the PAST and concentrating on my future... that hasn't happened yet but it's started to slowly happen and it has taken me nearly 6 months now of working every week with a good therapist I finally found, on a lot of life issues , not just my affair or this relationship. I think that to become a happy, whole person after being a broken one who could do such hurtful and self-destructive things like have an affair and live a double life takes a complete change and turn-around, which takes a LOT of reflection and trying to understand yourself and your past and who you want to be in the future. It is just really hard and there is no quick fix but I hope he's in counseling because it really helps, at least for me. I think it's great that you want to be there to help him in this process. I've realized that's what real love is all about, just keep doing this hard work and I wish you all the greatest rewards!! Best wishes.


Me: FWF (fiance), 28
I broke off engagement: May '07, then he found out about EA
I confessed PA: Oct. '07 and we started R.
In true R since Feb. '08
RE-ENGAGED: 10/08/09
Getting married in Oct. 2010 :)

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Dec 2007
prettyfuture
♀ Member
Member # 17293
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Devestated,

Along with LC's advice, I will share some things that helped me with self-forgiveness although my perspective is more humanist/ secular, with some buddhist influence.

To forgive yourself means to acknowledge that you are someone who did the wrong thing in the past, but now you consciously aims to do the right thing. It means thinking back and realizing that you would not have done the same thing then if you had known what you know now. You should try to love the person you were then and understand that that person was not yet whole. You should also try to love the person you are now and feel strength and pride from the fact that you are becoming more whole by learning from your past experiences.

It is easier to keep doing the wrong thing but you got out of that rut and started doing the right thing. You took the hard path and for that you should celebrate and recognize it as an accomplishment achieved by you and you alone!

Know that you cannot love anyone else until you love yourself. Reflect back on yourself at age 5, age 12, age 21, age 30 and so on... at different points in your life, with compassion and see how you have grown and changed. Be proud of all your accomplishments, including deciding to do the right thing from now on, and try to understand and forgive yourself for your downfalls. Humans are fallible and we fall down but those of us who love ourselves and want a happy life know that we can learn to pick ourselves back up and try again.

I hope this might help him...when I first read it (this is just my version/ paraphrasing of different things I've read), I didn't totally "get it" or believe it right away but it really helped to start thinking about things with that perspective. The more I thought about it and tried to live it, the more I was actually able to forgive myself and love myself. I think that affairs and other selfish acts happen because the person has not learned to love and accept himself/ herself yet. One of the best things that can happen afterwards is for the person to recognize that and start loving themselves. It seems funny to me, like, the more you love YOURSELF, the more you love others. To me that sounds a little self-centered but real love for yourself means doing things that are good and right for you, which include thinking before you act and remember what is important to you and what you value (ie, your marriage or relationship) and thinking about the consequences of your actions before you take them. So a unique concept for me to understand is that "I" must come before there can be any "other". I hope your husband can understand this and learn to love himself. Again best wishes.


Me: FWF (fiance), 28
I broke off engagement: May '07, then he found out about EA
I confessed PA: Oct. '07 and we started R.
In true R since Feb. '08
RE-ENGAGED: 10/08/09
Getting married in Oct. 2010 :)

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Dec 2007
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LC & PF - thank you.

No, he's not in IC. He wants to "work through this" himself and with me. Until things begin heading south, I'm ok with that.

He says he understands that his constant self-flagellation is hurting him, me, our family and us, but does NOTHING to stop it.

I'm nearing my whits end. I want to focus on the here and now and our future, not the past. He says he wants to do that too, yet he can't seem to get off "first plate" - overwhelming feelings of guilt, shame, etc.

LITTLE/NOTHING I've said or done over the last few months seems to have any impact on his "though process"/life - if one can call it that.

I haven't seen him "really" smile since July of last year, I haven't heard him "really laugh" since July of last year.

Yes, I DO love him, but I don't want the remainder of our lives being like this. He states he doesn't either, but does nothing about it.

My fear is that over the upcoming months/year, nothing will change.

I've suggested that he make an appointment and speak personally to our Pastor (who knows in VERY general terms what happened between us). I've suggested that he locate a counselor to speak to. I've suggested that perhaps he seek additional medical care for depression.

All I can do is "suggest" - I can't MAKE him go, I can't MAKE him heal, etc.

I'm loosing hope.


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Janis -
When asked what he told her--he said he did not tell her I had found out just that he would not be calling her anymore and since she was married that she should be able to figure it out.
Did you mean, your H never sent NC letter? He just stopped contact? OW might contact on his b-day to say happy b-day. (for some OWs, AP's b-day is a trigger), if he hasn't clearly told her that A was over. Keep watching his action for consistancy.

Devestatedx5 -

I have only gone to IC once. I dealt on my own. Like you say, you can only suggest, but you cannot make him. When he hit the rock bottom, he will be receptable to any guidance. As for me, it was identity cricis and co-dependency. I read many self-help books and reading/posting here helped.

Good luck!

[This message edited by beach at 10:15 AM, July 31st (Thursday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Janis
♀ Member
Member # 18656
Content  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening Closely--

Thank you once again. H is out of the country right now on business and that in itself is a trigger for me..plus from now through mid-Jan is when everything picked up steam last year so everything seems to be a trigger just now...
(Dec 4th @ 10p was my D-day)

Since he has been in NC and has been "the husband" I haven't seen in 20+ years I really don't want to do something to jeopardise that.
I am truly enjoying the "new" us too much...sometimes it is very overwhelming.....

Guess, my personal revenge in all this is that I am starting to get noticed in public and he is having to start to deal with this--something he hasn't had to deal with in 20+ years.
(My grown sons are starting to have to deal with the fact that men are starting to look at their "mom"--something they have not had to really experience before!) Also, people seem to think I am younger than my 50 years and he is turning 60 this weekend.

I just picked up the book 5 Languages of Love and have been going through it. It is quite helpful. Am going to see if he will read it so we can see where we are--are we different and what can we do to connect or are we actually
alot the same and didn't realize it ?

Thank you for your thoughts and support

Prettyfuture--
He did meet her for lunches, breakfasts, dinner--always in public places--according to him and credit card receipts and cell phone bills going back the past 7 years

Beach--
No, a NC letter has never been sent but he has been NC. I do ck phone bills and credit cards--and most likely will for a long time....

Thanks to all


me-52
ws-61
together 28 yrs (married 16 yrs)
2 boys--21yrs and 27 yrs
D-Day 12/4/2007
?EA for 10+ years (maybe always)
"just friends".....
R..One Day at a Time
Let the Facts be Your Guide...Not Your Emotions....


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