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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
neverendinghurt
♀ Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Movingforward, had you ended the A before you confessed?

And if so why?


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
movingforward31
♀ New Member
Member # 17592
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Deleted for privacy reasons.

[This message edited by movingforward31 at 4:20 PM, September 25th (Thursday)]


Posts: 15 | Registered: Jan 2008
neverendinghurt
♀ Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay thanks.

I especially want to hear from people that ended it before they were discovered, and why they did.


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

couldntbeme -


Is this still the fog?

Sure sounds like it to me. Getting defensive, wanting to "just get over the A and move on". These are signs that a WS has not yet taken ownership of their own shit and done the work necessary to heal.

In this instance, MC won't do any good either. Your WS is still looking outward (at you) for reasons instead in inward.

the only way past this is for a WS to do hard work in IC to figure out why they allowed themselves to make bad choices and act on them. To determine what they need to do to shore themselves up, be accountable for what they did and to start acting the way they need to in order to have a healthy M.

Until that work happens on the part of the WS, progress will be halted. You cannot work on the "us" of your M until your WS has done the work on themselves first.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
futureshock
♂ New Member
Member # 20835
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a BH and the OM was a first love of my WW. During there initial relationship 25 years ago, while they were living together, she cheated on him. She says it was the only other time she ever cheated on anyone in her life and I believe her. She has also said that she might of cheated on me with him in order to pay back this old debt.

In thinking this through I came to the conclusion that if the chain was never broken and we got a D, she would eventually fell that a debt was owed to me and hence cheat on her future H in order to repay me.

Twisted it is because in a way it makes it out to be that she wasn't cheating on me, she was cheating for the OM.

Anyway, my question is, does that sound like a reasonable "why" to any of you WSs and if so do any of you feel the same?


Me-Male BS 55 yrs old
Spouse-Female WS 48 yrs old
Happily married 16 yrs
D day-Aug 23 2008
Current status-working on R - broke NC Sept 8 2008, back on shaky ground
one male child 15 yrs old

Posts: 42 | Registered: Aug 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shotthrutheheart -

When the time came that your affair was out in the open with your BS, did you care who else knew?

At first, yeah, I cared a lot. I wanted to keep the number of people who knew down to a minimum. I was ok with my BW telling people she needed to tell for her own healing (though not always happy about it). But I didn't volunteer anything to anyone myself.

Now, a year plus out from D-Day, I'm ok if pretty much anyone who needs to know finds out. There are still a number of people who don't know (or at least don't know specifics) - our kids and my parents among them. At this point, my only question is what benefit will come from someone knowing. If it will result in a positive (my BW's healing, my own healing, someone else's understanding, etc.), then I am all for it. If it will result in only pain, sorrow and angst, or creating an enemy of our M, then I don't feel anything needs to be said.

I won't lie, but I'm not looking to go on 60 Minutes and tell the story either.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
onemoretry
♀ Member
Member # 19698
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I ended the A and then told my BH. Telling him was a surefire way to get me out of the "fog" and not be tempted to see him anymore. I couldn't live that double life anymore. For me, getting caught would have been a lot easier than just throwing "it" all on him out of the clear blue. But the day I told him. It had to be then...that day.I felt like I was losing my mind and just couldn't keep doing it anymore.


Me: FWW
BH-
Married: 19 yrs.
D-Day 1: 5/1997
D-Day 2: 5/27/08- same xOM
D-Day 3- 6/10/10- xOM #2

Posts: 195 | Registered: May 2008
StupidGirl07
Member
Member # 15217
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a question for the WS and would appreciate any advice,

I am a BS and have never posted here before, but I am desperate to try and understand WH, and I am getting no discussion from him. We are currently separated, he is living at his parents. If you would like to know our history it is in my profile.
My question is, why is WH so ANGRY and BITTER towards me? I have tried everything I could to keep our M together, we've been going to MC though I don't know if that will continue. I only asked him to leave because I couldn't take him ignoring me constantly, not touching me or saying ILY, he would literally be in the same room but acting like I didn't exist. You could FEEL the anger radiating from him. I just couldn't take the contant tension and it was affecting the kids. We haven't even spoken much over the last couple of weeks, but he is still so angry and bitter. If I even try to talk to him I can feel his anger building. I just don't understand why he's directing all of his anger at me. I have done the best I could to refrain from calling him names, being disrespectful, etc. over the last almost year. His anger has only grown over time.

I am almost 100% sure there is no current OW or A going on. His family says he is always there when not at work, and I have access to his phone bill. There is no evidence, and I don't feel like that an A is what's going on.

Is this a just a stage? Any WS go through anything similiar? Any ideas as to why he cannot see me or talk to me without getting incredibly angry? Thanks you so much for your insight. I am posting here as a last resort, because I have been seriously considering D because nothing I do helps.


Me= BS-27
Him= WH-31 Brief affair with OW after having a ONS with her.
Married for 6 years D final 12/08
2 kids -4 years old and 2 yrs old
Currently in R.

Posts: 219 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: hell
gibbonsrose
♀ Member
Member # 16280
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, September 2nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My best friend just revealed that she is sleeping with a married man.

She is currently separated, on the D track, and claims, just in it for the sex. She also said that "SHE" is not the one who is married, he is, and so she is not doing anything wrong.

Married Man is, of course, unhappily married, father of two young daughters, about to be contracted overseas for 1 year, and plans on divorcing his wife when he gets back.

They call each other "booty calls". She claims she is just having an "adolescent experience" and her IC is fine with it.

She also claims the relationship is purely physical and she is not emotionally attached. She admits, however, to thinking of him constantly during the day and texts him quite often.

Any advise as to how to cousel my friend? How to warn her about what she is getting herself into? How it affects not only herself, but the man's family as well? And how to be her friend throughout?

Because I am a BS, she doesn't think I can understand her need for "just sex" with this guy, and that I can't relate to her situation.

Thank you for any advice I can pass along to my dear friend, who I very much adore and care deeply about.


Me - Befuckled
WH - Limber at limbo *sigh*

Posts: 5040 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: mountain transplant
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

futureshock -

does that sound like a reasonable "why" to any of you WSs and if so do any of you feel the same?

This wasn't my experience. I guess I can see the point, but my own guess is the reason your WW allowed herself to cheat multiple times goes deeper than that. The unanswered questions that remain are why, after a formal process of splitting a relationship, wound she still feel that obligation? And more importantly, what made her think that affair activity would resolve that feeling of obligation more effectively than other paths she could have chosen, such as D and then resume the relationship or even a simple letter of apology for any hurt she feels she may have created.

These are the things I think IC would help get to the root of.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stupidgirl -

why is WH so ANGRY and BITTER towards me?

An A is an addiction for a WS. It is just as powerful as any drink or drug. Whenever I felt low or beaten down by the world, I turned to the xMOW for a shot to my ego. I'd get a temporary boost, then run into reality, get knocked down and the cycle repeated again.

Now consider what you represent in that cycle. You are the person who "took away your WS's high". You are responsible for him not being able to get his fix. An alcoholic will get pissed at the bartender who won't serve them. A drug addict will get pissed at the paramedic who gives them Narcan and takes their high away. And a WS will get pissed at their BS, who takes away their OP and the high they get when they interact with the OP.

Given time with NC and a focus on the issues why the WS needed an A, that anger can be defeated. But it takes time to get there.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gibbonsrose -

Any advise as to how to cousel my friend?

I'm not sure there is any advice that will work here. The xMOW I was involved with, while not yet divorced at the time, had already made the decision she was done with her M. She shamelessly flirted with multiple married men (myself being one of them), and felt no remorse or guilt at all in the process. Ultimately, she expressed that if the BW's weren't doing what they needed to make their WH's happy and she could offer that, in her view she was doing something good.

The bottom line reality - she didn't think enough of herself to believe that she deserved anything better than being a married guy's "booty call". And in order to counter some pretty deep beatings she gave her self image, she needed multiple married guys to boost herself up.

You could explore why your friend feels that she has such little value that she should settle for being OM's "booty call". Why she thinks so little of herself that this it's ok for her to "settle" for this lifestyle. But unless she is willing to get her IC to dig into her low self esteem, I'm not sure she'll come around.

Any focus on the impact to the OM's family will likely be futile. She's totally self absorbed in what her "needs" are, and likely could care less about what might happen with his family.

So sorry you are going through this. I really hope things can turn around.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS's: Do any, or all, of you TRULY not remember details?
You can read my profile for my story, but in a nutshell, he had an EA for what I think is 2 months, a PA for 2- ½ months (no sex, just making out and heavy “petting”), with an employee/friend of both of ours. I "knew" within days, confronted him after the 2 months, confronted again several times, planted recorders several times, hit pay dirt last November 19, confronted him final time, he broke down. We don’t’ have NC (my choice) because she is a good employee, and has been a great friend for many years. Strange and Jerry Springerlike situation, I know, but I went with my gut and it’s “okay” now.
Anyway, he has been great about telling me LOTS of stuff, really opening up about his feelings, what they talked about, what they did (There is plenty more I need to know, but I do think he’s doing his best), but he can’t remember things that I think would be burned into my memory if I’d done them:
Where, and when, did you first kiss? What did you say to each other right after? When did you first say “I love you” and where were you? Is it TRULY possible to NOT remember these things?
Now, granted, my husband is NOT a date person. If you called him right now, today, and asked him what day it is, he’d say “Wednesday”. If you asked the DATE, he’d be at a total loss. He MIGHT know the month (but since it just changed, it’s just as likely he wouldn’t), but he’d have to look at a calendar for the actual date. So it’s not like this is anything NEW to his behavior, but I still find it hard to believe that he can’t remember so many things!
I have a spreadsheet with specific things that happened on such and such a date. When trying to match stuff up, I’d say something like “okay, this time, you said you were going to town for gas cans/propane. I ended up going to town too. I called OW and she was chattering on about not knowing where you were, and chattering about where she was. Then I said “oh, I’m at the hardware store” and she said “Oh, you know what? I’m just driving past the grocery store and I see his truck, so he must be there”. MEANWHILE, I’m ACROSS the street LOOKING at her talking to me on the phone, and she’s walking away from his truck. Wouldn’t something like THAT stick in your mind? My question to him about that one thing was “did you get to MEET her or did I interrupt too fast?” And he can’t even answer THAT.
So, I guess what I’m asking for is if ANYONE thinks it’s truly possible to NOT remember those kinds of things? I pointed out to him that, as far as I know, there were only maybe 2-3 times they ever met here in our own town, so I’d think that THOSE times at least would be easy to remember.
Any help/feedback anyone can give me would be great. Sorry so long. This is a BAD time of year for me. EA was July/August last year. PA was (as near as I can figure out, since HE can’t remember) Sept/Oct and up until November 19.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Aug 2008
futureshock
♂ New Member
Member # 20835
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely

The unanswered questions that remain are why, after a formal process of splitting a relationship, wound she still feel that obligation?

My WW has a long history of disassociating herself from guilty or dark emotions. She could teach "compartmentalizing 101". In our recent talks she said that she never came to grips with her previous cheat and possibly that was the underlying motive for her current A.

I know this is probably psycho babble and maybe only another attempt to minimize her guilt but I do believe there is a underlying reason she did the unthinkable and it goes way back, to a time before I met her and probably started in her childhood.


Me-Male BS 55 yrs old
Spouse-Female WS 48 yrs old
Happily married 16 yrs
D day-Aug 23 2008
Current status-working on R - broke NC Sept 8 2008, back on shaky ground
one male child 15 yrs old

Posts: 42 | Registered: Aug 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pollybuddy -

Where, and when, did you first kiss? What did you say to each other right after? When did you first say “I love you” and where were you? Is it TRULY possible to NOT remember these things?

Is it possible not to remember to this level of detail? Yes, it is.

Ok, so maybe something as significant as physical contact (first kiss for example) is something memorable. But I honestly could not tell you when and where I first said I love you to xMOW. I can't tell you the subject of our first conversation, what her favorite color is or which restaurant is her favorite.

The reason is that the A was selfishly about me. It was about getting kudos for myself and getting my ego stroked by xMOW. I wasn't focused on what I was offering her. I was selfishly acting in ways that would create the positive feedback from her that I wanted.

It also started slow and built up over time. By the time I realized the depth of the relationship, my guess is I had already uttered the dreaded I love yous to her a couple dozen times. Added to that was the fact that she held back on saying it in return for a while, making it a sort of conquest. She played coy (saying I adore you instead of I love you, and that she wasn't sure she believed in love), furthering the determination of "her men" - yes there were more than one pursuing her (all married) to be the one to convince her to love them.

So now, if asked to go back and tell specifics - I couldn't do it. Some significant events I could - where we met the first time, and the place I said goodbye for example. But every detail to the level you are asking? I honestly don't remember. And at this point in our healing, I am trying to keep myself focused on what I am doing - my current and future actions - that make me the one my BW wants to choose every day for the rest of her life.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely, thank you for your honest answer, I THINK it makes me feel a little better. And it's nice to see that you have come so far in your marriage, looks like our DDay was about 6 months after yours, so it gives me hope.

I still don't GET it, but I know that is because I'm NOT the one who did it. For ME, and only me, that kind of stuff would be burned in my memory. I guess if he (and you) really DON'T remember, it's kind of a "good" thing, because it means it wasn't all that memorable?

I HAVE been accused of "overthinking" things before, so perhaps the level of detail I've been searching for is something I need to get over.

BUT, there are still things I need to know, not dates or times or details, so I guess I'll concentrate on those and take him at his word that he truly doesn't remember the other stuff.

Thanks again


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Aug 2008
hope2laughagain
♀ Member
Member # 18364
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for any WH who would like to answer....

It has been 1 year out and R is going well. However, recently my FWH is wanting more trust from me. He says he has changed and is not the same person. In most repects, I believe that is true. He says that he feels like he is in prison or waiting for parole. Has anyone else felt this way? And if so how did you deal with it? Thanks in advance.


"For I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

ME(BS)- H(WS)
Married:8 years
EA:May 07-PA:July 07 (w/co-worker)
Recovered


Posts: 667 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: California
Cheerfull_1
Member
Member # 18219
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can someone be so kind as to elaborate how "deep" a fog can be? My STBX is living with his GF part time. They have yet to see each others 'warts' so to speak. Could this be condsidered part of the fog? Thanks for your honesty.
We've had some genuine heart to hearts about our A. But he refuses to return for reasons to do with PRIDE? I just don't get it. FYI: GF has 2 little girls to include in this mess.


BS(me)-32
STBX(him)-32
DS- 9
1 Mo EA turned PA.

D-day 12/06/07,day b4 b-day admitted 2 wk EA.

Success is failure turned inside out.
"Illusion never changed into something real." Torn - Natalie Imbrulia.
Divored n Feb 09


Posts: 378 | Registered: Feb 2008
Cheerfull_1
Member
Member # 18219
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Correction: Our M


BS(me)-32
STBX(him)-32
DS- 9
1 Mo EA turned PA.

D-day 12/06/07,day b4 b-day admitted 2 wk EA.

Success is failure turned inside out.
"Illusion never changed into something real." Torn - Natalie Imbrulia.
Divored n Feb 09


Posts: 378 | Registered: Feb 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, September 3rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope2 -

my FWH is wanting more trust from me.

Trust in what way? I think it all boils down to size and scope.

While my BW doesn't ask to see my cell or email every day, I would gladly let her do so if she needed it - now or well into the future. When there's nothing to hide, there's no fear there.

Close to D-Day I would IM or text my BW when I was running errands or attending events. I don't do that as often, especially if my timing is "normal". But even now if I am delayed - long line at a store, caught up talking to someone after a chorus rehearsal, flight gets delayed, etc. - I still IM or text. It's not just about verification. I actually see it as treating my BW with respect in letting her know when she can expect I'll be back home.

So what lack of trust does your WS feel is too rigid?


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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