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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am having problems with my WS back and forth. At times - he seems loving and remorseful - other times he just wants for it all to go away.

He can be extremely moody and distant. He drops things like "I wish I was religious then it would be easy to guide myself. I know right from wrong - I just choose wrong sometimes" He won't further elaborate - gets irritated if I press him as to what he means.

He has changed his job, sent a NC letter, tries to be transparent (although gets angry about it sometimes).

He just wants it all to go away. He just seems like he wants to run sometimes.

Last sunday, he told me he had an AHA moment "I just need to be a man. Instead of looking inward, I need to look outward at how I can help you. You are the best wife anyone could want. What can I do for you. Will you be my wife" Now he is normally not very demostrative - and I took this as the truth. But since then - he has been up and down.

Help me - I'm struggling.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom -

I see pieces of the healing puzzle for your WS (NC, transparency, etc.). And the aha moment is one I went through as well. It took a while but I finally realized the more I gave to my BW and our kids the happier I was.

The big piece you don't mention is his focus on what is broken within him. My read from what you have shared (not a religious man, looking outward and inconsistent actions) is that he is not in IC. To me, this is one of the most vital parts of recovery for a WS. The reason an A occurs is because there is something within us that allowed it to happen. For me it was low self esteem and conflict avoidance, but that was me. Others have different reasons.

In essence, he needs to face his demons head on and fight them. A good IC will make this effort move forward effectively.

With that said, this is a roller coaster for both sides. He will have good days and bad days. But the extremes can narrow over time.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is in IC for 5 weeks now. He doesn't think it is helping him. Personally, I know what a conflict avoider he is and from what i have gleened - he is not being honest with her. His first few sessions were focused on how dead the marriage was (this is not true - he is rewriting history and finally realized this with me - but I don't think he can admit it to couselor because that would make him look bad - in the earlier sessions).

I know his couselor is very good. But if he is not totally honest with her - is he gonna get anywhere. Will she figure this out.

He does feel like it is HIS problem. He just takes no action to improve - like he is frozen.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alone_in_Georgia -

I just saw that your question was unanswered... so I am going to take it.

Questions for WS's, but a quick spot of background so the questions makes more sense:
My husband was finally willing to do a little introspection last night to try to dig at some of the reasons for the affair. Much like I know many have said on the W forum, he suffers from extreme low self-esteem and a tendency to avoid conflicts. Combine it with an excellent talent for compartmentalization, and he was a prime candidate. He was very upset last night when he said he just doesn't like himself. He says that he had previously been content with who he was, though never really happy (I think this is compartmentalization coming into it), but now that I force him to look at himself, he really hates who he sees. He doesn't want to go to IC as all this is too painful for him to want to deal with, but I REALLY need to know why and only he can answer that for me.
So, for those WS who have some of the same problems, what did you do to help you heal and recover from the basic underlying issues? In particular, are there any good books that you recommend or websites? What can I do, as the BS, to make him more comfortable with exploring his own issues and supporting him? (Yes, I realize that I can't "fix him" and that he has to do that himself, but I know that there must be things that I can do to assist or make the enviroment easier on him during this process.)

I am 1.5 year out. My lifestyle changed and I am much happier. My boundary wall is up high. I have no desire to go back to where I was.. I am not empty inside anymore, thus I don't need any external validation anymore. I feel blessed every day.

As for me, reconnecting with myself and start learning how to love and respect myself was the key. Be in the nature and appreciate what I have (appreciation inventory everyday - like, I am so glad to have family, and we have house and bed to sleep in... if there is no house, what would I have done...etc ) also helped me to cherish my life and I could feel love was generating for myself and it made me realize that the whole universe is connected. I was then able to love others. You must be able to love yourself before you love others.


I had "Aha!" moment about external varidation. ...

Anyways, it does make me feel good when someone compliment me. The key here is where my motivation to (perform better or being helpful) is coming from.
As for at job/work, is it because I want to be acknowledged/recognized by others (external) or because you know that is what I do best(internal) and wanted to...?

If it is the latter, when someone complements me, it is like a bonus, but if it is the other one, you always wanting for approvals.

Just like excersise, when you do it, because you want to look good, you'd always feel like you are not satisfied, but if you do it because it makes you feel good afterward, that is better, because the motivation factor is innerself. And then if it makes you look good, now that is a bonus.

My self image also changed"

Pre A, I was always self conscious how I looked.

During A, I always wanted to appear perfect not only for xOM, but also any random guys, because I was also enjoying the turn-heads. I was so messed up.

As for mr. beach, he always loves me for who I am and he always tells me that he loves my asset and even he rubs and kisses stretch marks on my tummy, which is the part I don't like. Also cellulite on my thigh. I kept telling myself, maybe because he is my hubby, he had to say that to me.

Right after A was ended, the way I dress was changed, too. I didn't want to wear the fitted clothes or mini skirt that showed my figure. I only wanted to wear loose fit/ comfy stuff and sweat pants for 6 months. Luckily, I haven't gained weight. I avoided being looked at by any strangers. I freak out or get uncomfortable, if some guys look at me in the certain way. My boundary is changed, too. I don’t need any turn heads anymore.

The books that helped me were “codependent no more”, “Language of letting go” “journey to the heart” “Find your way home” all are by Melody Beattie. And “Journey from abandonment to healing” by Susan Anderson.

Hope this is helpful.

[This message edited by beach at 8:33 PM, July 7th (Monday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
SoDisappointed
♀ Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you told the OP that you loved them, did it feel "Fake" to exchange those words with your spouse (while the A was going on)?


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoDisappointed, no it didn't feel fake to tell my husband I loved him- I never stopped loving him. I stopped believing in our marriage, and I hated myself. The deepest part of my mind/heart knew it was not true to tell the OP I loved him, but it was how I justified what I was doing.

While it may seem impossible to do such hurtful things and still love someone, it DID happen in my case.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
SoDisappointed
♀ Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fallen, my H also says he never stopped loving me and always wanted to be married to me, that is what makes this all so so so hard for me to understand....I am not sure that I will ever understand. He says he doesn't know what he was thinking........ that it feels like it wasn't even him.


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had to pop a question. If you were an angry wayward spouse when did you start showing your real emotions? Was it just time or an AHA moment?

Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Dissapointed -
my H also says he never stopped loving me and always wanted to be married to me, that is what makes this all so so so hard for me to understand.... I am not sure that I will ever understand.
As for my case, I also told xOM that "ILY", but more like casual style. I was acting out of some scene or something. I was in love with the idea of having a younger boyfriend. I was compartmentalizing while I was with xOM. When I get home and tell Mr.beach "ILY" that was rooting from deep inside of me, but to him, my words and my action was not matching. (Action speaks louder than words. I know), so he wouldn't understand that either.

lostcause111 -

If you were an angry wayward spouse when did you start showing your real emotions? Was it just time or an AHA moment?

As for me, I was not remorseful for the first 3 months (and I was also in the withdrawal stage), and mr.beach would say he doesn't deserve to live like that and he was willing to give me a D. That shook me up.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
hissadwife
♀ Member
Member # 14982
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I can't be helped. Thanks anyway.


Does this wedding ring make my dick look big?

Posts: 4362 | Registered: Jun 2007
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My questions are for FWW:
If your affair partner had children, did you feel guilty about what the affair stole from them? In our case, we have four very young children who needed their dad and OW knew it.

FWH told OW, in a nutshell, that I was a bad wife and mother. As a mother herself, do you think she would have felt any guilt about leaving our young children in my (horrible incapable) hands rather than in (loving superdad) FWH's care? The lie was so obvious...how could she not see it?

FWH's OW told him she'd happily settle for spending a couple of hours a week with him. Why would she settle for that? She was married, had been separated from her BH for years, though she still kept him around and had sex with him. Why wouldn't she file for divorce and then out the affair to me so that she and FWH could be together full time?

Thank you for any insight you can offer. I'm still struggling to make sense of what I know and fill in the gaps of what I don't know.

Patience hsw! I do not think Listeningclosely is qualified to answer these questions! He is doing a great job with all the rest!

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hissadwife)))

.... I have been taking it easy from SI (due to lack of energy).... and that each page in this thread fills up quickly to the next page. I just saw this. Thanks t2g for bumping and quoting.
In regards to children, even though, I am FWW, my xOM was a single and not MM, so I am not qualified to answer your question either... But wait....... let me take a stab at this.....


If your affair partner had children, did you feel guilty about what the affair stole from them? In our case, we have four very young children who needed their dad and OW knew it.

as a mother, I put xOM on the pedestal, I put everyone else on the bottom of my priority. At that time, I was parenting in the auto pilot mode and I am not proud of it. I am sure, your xMOW was only thinking about her addictive A, too..... If she was conscious about it, she wouldn't even cross the line. But again, most WS could compartmentalize (forget/not thinking about) betrayed spouse/family when WSs were with APs.


FWH's OW told him she'd happily settle for spending a couple of hours a week with him. Why would she settle for that?
She only wanted him part time just for fun part and not wanting any other domestic obligation.

She was married, had been separated from her BH for years, though she still kept him around and had sex with him. Why wouldn't she file for divorce and then out the affair to me so that she and FWH could be together full time?
She just wanted to have safety net, just in case if either doesn't work out, she could have other one.

I hope this helps.

[This message edited by beach at 8:30 PM, July 7th (Monday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom -

But if he is not totally honest with her - is he gonna get anywhere.

If the dishonesty lasted forever, no. But know that early on as a WS is coming out of their fog, they are still seeing the world from a distorted viewpoint. While I didn't outright lie to my IC, the view I portrayed was not fully accurate at first. But as my IC helped me work through my own issues, I was able to project a better more complete image to him.

I don't think he can admit it to counselor because that would make him look bad - in the earlier sessions

This is something you should be able to pursue with him. A counselor is trained not to view people as good or bad, but to determine where the weaknesses are and help find techniques to address the weaknesses. Telling the IC that he sees the world differently would more likely be celebrated as a positive step forward than a criticism of his previous view of the world.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
dmb364041
♀ Member
Member # 19710
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been reading the responses and everyone has been so helpful. I have a question...Let me prefece by giving a bit of background. H and I are currently S. He started his A prior to S. He has been fence sitting and cake eatting up till D-Day in April. I found out about OW and asked him to end it. He said he wouldn't, coudln't, etc. I accepted that at the time because I felt he would D if I didn't. We have since become much closer and he has been moving towards leaving the OW. He sent an email last week talking about why he wanted to move on, but it did not offically end it. He has been spending more time with me than with her etc. This past weekend all hell broke loose and he said he wasn't ready to come home etc. He still loved her didn't know what to do, didn't want to hurt me. He also announced that he was going on vacation with her for a week. I was told it was end it, last night I was told it was to decicde. He says he loves me but not the same way and that he can't decide. So my question is how long did it take for fence sitting? Were you truely in love? What about cake eating? Do I have a chance in hell when last week all roads were leading ot ending it?

Thank you!


Me (36) BW
Him FWH (37)
Status in R

DD 4, DD 2yr
D-Day 4-7-08
"Celebrate we will...cause life is short, but sweet for certain." DJM

Posts: 258 | Registered: May 2008
lilliolly
Member
Member # 19647
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my H has left me and our 2 young children 2 months ago for his OW (she works in one of his offices) he had an affair with her for 6 months.he has been seeing her since, but hasn't moved in with her he has moved in with some family, he doesn't talk about her in his future, he has said he is going to get his own place a one bed place (she has her own 3 bed house)

He has lost interest in his kids going from seeing them daily to fornightly, allthough he does ring occasionally to speak to them, but i',m sure that is just to get to talk to me.
The oW he is seeing is 25 (5 years younger than himself) has no children (apparently she doesn't want any, she is not maternal in any way), her XBF she had been with for 7 years left her after he found out about the affair, the OW has a party lifestlyle but sees my xh when she can. He however is going out more drinking more and distancing himself from his family and friends to see her.

Do you think this relationship with her will last??

What i want to know is why doesn't he want to let go of us completly or is it that he is just being nice as he hates conflict?

what things did you say to your BS to keep hanging onto them and the marriage?

Lilliolly


Posts: 71 | Registered: May 2008 | From: England
alone_in_georgia
♀ Member
Member # 19428
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Beach,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply; I really appreciate it! I'm going to send your reply on to my husband.


Me BW 40
Him FWH 45
DS9, DS7, DD4
D-Day: 4-30-08; 2 yr LTA
In R

If you sometimes treat your wife like a mistress, you'll have a happy marriage.
If you sometimes treat your mistress like a wife, soon you won't have a mistress.


Posts: 1714 | Registered: May 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alone_in_georgia -

Sorry I missed you in there. Gotta look closer from now on!

Beach did a great job with her answer, but I'll see if I can add a few more thoughts.

What did you do to help you heal and recover from the basic underlying issues?

For me, it was the work I did in IC to understand my own self worth and to stop avoiding conflict. It took quite a while, but eventually I learned about the guy within me that deserved the family I have. I learned that I don't always lose in conflict, but that the best path was to find the common ground we both wanted and focus on working on that together.

In particular, are there any good books that you recommend or websites?

My initial list includes:

Books - After the Affair, Not Just Friends, The Five Love Languages

Websites - ummm, SI? lol

marriagebuilders.com, stephencovey.com (getting my personal mission back on track), fivelovelanguages.com

What can I do, as the BS, to make him more comfortable with exploring his own issues and supporting him?

Challenge him to think through his flaws and actions, but allow him to experience his feelings without dismissing them.

Reflect an effort of partnership (both pursuing the same goal of R) versus a competition of him versus a standard.

Support "good behavior" as much as you might criticize "bad behavior".

Help him understand that he resets his "personal integrity" counter every morning. Today is a new day he has a choice to do the right thing with, regardless of past actions.

Help him understand that he defines the best he can give, and as long as he lives up to his own standards he is doing a great job.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoDisappointed -

did it feel "Fake" to exchange those words with your spouse (while the A was going on)?

Not to me, but I feel very strongly that I have never stopped being totally madly in love with my wife. If my love for her were not strong, I would not have had the strength and determination to make R work for us and would have taken the path out the door.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostcause -

If you were an angry wayward spouse when did you start showing your real emotions?

While I don't think I was angry (I hated conflict) I was grumpy and crabby. My real emotions were always there based on what my feelings were. So post D-Day, I was upset because my addiction was taken away. Over time, I showed less withdrawal symptoms and more pain over the hurt I had caused Wells. That hit at it's deepest about five months after D-Day.

Now, I could not be a happier man with the amazing wife and kids I have in my life. I am an incredibly blessed man, and I hope most times it shows.

Was it just time or an AHA moment?

For me it changed over time. There were shifts based on key events like D-Day or being challenged on transparency, but the bigger changes happened more gradually.

[This message edited by Listeningclosely at 9:53 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hsw - your question was directed specifically toward a FWW. I held bask as I don't fit that description.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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