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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

newday2day -

What did you do to prove you were sorry and remorseful? How did you begin proving it was over and would not happen again?

Look up higher on page 45 for my response to wantingtoforgive and numbandsad. Those are some early indicators that there is a commitment to change.

(edited because this post started a new page)

[This message edited by Listeningclosely at 1:46 PM, October 31st (Friday)]


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
lostagain
♀ New Member
Member # 21446
Question  Posted: 1:54 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To all WS's: I am the BS in the process of trying to start R. It hasn't even been a month since D-day and we plan to be separated for almost 6 months (I really needed space to gather my thoughts). The problem is I flip flop daily if not hourly (or by the minute). It is hard because well here's the list:

Pros:
1. He did agree to complete NC, I have checked his phone records and they have not been in contact by calls or messages.
2. He has been very understanding of 99% about each of my outbursts. (the other 1% he just gets depressed but I told him that doesn't help matters)
3. He has finally been reading the books I have gotten over the years that we've been together (that I could never get him to read before)
4. He's going to counseling.
5. He has agreed to just about every request I've made of him without complaint

So that's all great but then I start to think:

Cons:
He has had affairs before and they have always been when I needed him.
*I should mention this was 06'
1. 3 months after we were married (I was pregnant) I found out he had an EA with my best friend.
2. A month later he began a OEA with several woman (adultfriendfinder type crap) I found out just before Christmas and found information that said he was adding friends on 10/20 our daughter was born on 10/19!!
3. He joined a phone dating line a month after I found out about the OEA and had a one time PA with a complete stranger.
All of this went on when I was pregnant or had a newborn. I really needed him. We went to counseling and our relationship seemed to reach a level it hadn't before.
But here we are again.
4. This time I had just gotten scary lab results back from my well woman exam and I had to have painful scary proceedures done to me. My family's business was (is) in a horrible financial situation. My son had just started 1st grade and I had a really hard time with him in kindergarten so I was pouring a lot of energy (though I was running out) into him and his school work. I needed him. During all of this he slept with my best friend (yes the same one I'm sorry I didn't learn the first time) because she made him feel needed! Or at least that's what he says.

SO my question is I know you've probably seen a lot of people pass through here some sincere some not, some I'm sure were beyond help. I want to know from someone who might understand his perspective what they think and maybe signs I could watch for that would reveal his intentions. I do want this to work but I'm so afraid the next time I need him I will have my heart ripped out again.
Thank you all in advance.

[This message edited by lostagain at 2:05 PM, October 31st (Friday)]


myself: BS 26
husband: WH 24, had EA, OEA, PAx2
kids: b7(mine), g2(ours)
D-day: 10/7/08
Separated, end date: 03/25/09
trying very hard to reach a point of reconcilliation

Posts: 15 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Phoenix, Az
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH says he continued A b/c he realized he was missing something valuable in the M for last 2 years or so. We are now D against my desire to work on the M. We have had many FR in my opinion b/c H knew his life was more wholesome and valuable with me and Family, but could not control his attaction to OW. I feel we are D b/c urges can not be controlled against the right thing to do by staying with M and family. Is this common with WS?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostagain,
So sounds like you gave him a time till March of 2009?

I want to know from someone who might understand his perspective what they think and maybe signs I could watch for that would reveal his intentions.

You know, I would make sure he stopped all online activities and if he has set up any profile on online site, he should have deleted them. Watch his action and not his words. Talk is cheap. Action speaks louder than words. Make sure he address his issue (sexual activities) at IC and find out his whys.

I hope this helps.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily,

My WH says he continued A b/c he realized he was missing something valuable in the M for last 2 years or so. We are now D against my desire to work on the M. We have had many FR in my opinion b/c H knew his life was more wholesome and valuable with me and Family, but could not control his attaction to OW. I feel we are D b/c urges can not be controlled against the right thing to do by staying with M and family. Is this common with WS?

For some FWSs, yes, it is common. He knows continuing A is not good for him, but that he doesn't have a strong will to stop his addiction (xOW). Foggy WS is like an addict, he has unhealthy mindset. In order for him to be able to think clearly, he must go cold turkey (NC) and she-tox (De-tox) from his system, otherwise. Unless he hit the rock bottom (lose jobs or family), some may snap out of fog. As long as he is in contact with OW, his mind set will not change.

Hope this helps.

[This message edited by beach at 9:55 PM, October 31st (Friday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

building429,

here's another problem I need some advice on. Her family. Her family blames me for EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life. This makes it really difficult on me. They have "shunned" me for over a year now. They won't allow me in their homes, and they won't even talk to me. They say that it's the way I was treating my wife that led them to do this. My personal opinion is that I shouldn't HAVE to prove ANYTHING to them. I'm not married to them, I'm married to my wife. But, they don't see it that way. It's like I have to "earn" my way back in with them, and I don't think that's right at all. My feeling is, if they had a problem with me, then they should have sat me down and talked with me about it, instead of "shunning" me for all this time. So, now I have her family telling her that it's all my fault. How in the world can I deal with her AND them??

I agree with what LC responded to you and I echo that. If my in-laws are shunning me I would stay away from them. I don't need a toxic environment while I am trying to heal. I am practicing my self-respect.

Don't focus on what other think of you. Hope this help.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
me+6
♀ Member
Member # 15035
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please any WS help me here:

If you have been lying not only aboat A's but other, sometimes silly things, to your BS, can you make the decision to stop?

I did not ask WH to leave for the PA or the EA, but when I found 30 text messages a day to his SIL I had said enough.
These texts might not have been anything but it showed me he was not being 100% honest with me.

Our MC told me last week that he may never be able to be honest with me.

My question is do you think after years of lying you can make the decision to stop and be completely honest?



me-36 WH-37
Married 16 years together 18
6 children (5,7,8,12,14,16)
DDay - March 4th 2007
DDay #2 September 13, 2008 EA
Separated Oct 24, 2008
7/1/09 He is coming home!
Beginning to R

Posts: 694 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: East Coast
dreamer1
♀ Member
Member # 13716
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to let the WS know that my WH is now posting in the WS side, (bearlover), if you need to know the history of his A you may look at my profile to see what has happened, He needs all the support he can get, Last night I told him I wanted a D. Which I believe why he is finally tring to help me by going on here. I'm still afraid it might be to late for the damage to be repaired. But if he can find the right thing to do, who knows. I do love him, just can't continue this life anymore the way it keeps going.

Thanks for all your help and support.


S(he) Be(lie)ve(d)
Me-BS 48
Him-FWH 50
Friends 34 yrs-Married 26 yrs
D-Day 1/20/2007
LTA-To Many False R to count and D-days, Last D-day June 11,2010
4 stepchildren SS 28, SD 29, Twin SS 2yrs.
Twin OC, born 6/23/2008
Trying to see if R is pos

Posts: 558 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Arizona
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi me+6,

My question is do you think after years of lying you can make the decision to stop and be completely honest?

When he hit the rock bottom (losing family, jobs, or healthy scare ) maybe the turning point for him.

MC is right, if he has been not only lying to others, but to himself for a lifetime, and it has been the coping mechanism to live in a double life, it may take awhile to be honest.

But the first step is for him to be honest with himself and then it will be easier to be honest with others. Is he in IC? He needs lots hard work to do.

Hope this helps.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((dreamer1)))))

I don't have any wise advice, but I am sending you positive thoughts and strength on your way. I responded to bearlove's post. Hang in there!!

[This message edited by beach at 8:10 PM, November 1st (Saturday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dreamer1-you have been on a horrific road...i am so sorry. To be able to still feel love for your WH says a lot about your wonderful heart. Bless you. We W's will do our best to offer him good advice and support.

Just showing this concern for him...what a loving act that is. I hope you can see how special and wonderful that act of kindness is.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
me+6
♀ Member
Member # 15035
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When he hit the rock bottom (losing family, jobs, or healthy scare ) maybe the turning point for him

Thanks Beach this is what I had been thinking as well. I have actually had thoughts of WH having a near death experience to wake him up! (I know this is a horrible thought and I really don't want anything awful to happen to him). I'm just really scared that by the time he realizes what he is losing he will have already lost it!

He has just started IC with our MC. Whether he will continue who knows?


me-36 WH-37
Married 16 years together 18
6 children (5,7,8,12,14,16)
DDay - March 4th 2007
DDay #2 September 13, 2008 EA
Separated Oct 24, 2008
7/1/09 He is coming home!
Beginning to R

Posts: 694 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: East Coast
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, November 1st (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

me+6, I see the A as a near death experience- it changed a lot for me, but the change wasn't instantaneous. It was a long, slow process backed by my deep desire to be a different kind of person- and to live an honest life.

I didn't lie all the time about stupid things, but I was a conflict avoider because it was easier to avoid than tell the truth.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostagain,

SO my question is I know you've probably seen a lot of people pass through here some sincere some not, some I'm sure were beyond help. I want to know from someone who might understand his perspective what they think and maybe signs I could watch for that would reveal his intentions. I do want this to work but I'm so afraid the next time I need him I will have my heart ripped out again.
Thank you all in advance.

Your husband seems to have a sexual addiction and very bad boundaries.
For me, I realized how much my wife really loved me and how badly I had devastated her. That made me realize that I had to live my life for her. Her happiness outweighed mine. No matter what I desired, her desires trumped mine. I am disgusted with myself that it took my affair to make me realize this.
You are still raw with hurt from his constant betrayals. I know it seems like he just doesn't care, that he would have stopped the first time if he really loved you. My guess is that he does, but his addiction is getting the better of him. Some men have a hard time controlling their sex drive. A man thinks about it in some form every 6 minutes. We try to be conservative about it, but some men can be very open and rude about it.
It has nothing to do with you, it has everything to do with him.
I agree with beach, his online activities would have to stop until he could prove he wouldn't abuse them.
Separation will give him the opportunity do as much online activities he desires, because you won't be there.

A remorseful WS that wants to change will do anything and everything their BS desires and do it wholeheartedly. If you say no internet then thats what he should do. If you say call me every hour without fail, then he should do it. He should be completely transparent, which it seems he is.
If he has secret accounts that you don't know about, I would find out by keylogger if you haven't already installed one. A keylogger records all keystrokes on the computer without the user being recorded knowing so. If he is still visiting sites the keylogger will reveal every site he visited and every chat he had. This will help you know his intentions and if he has completely stopped. There are free ones, but the best ones to use cost pretty close to $100.
It's going to take that awful 4 letter word called time for you to really trust him again. All he can do is try to show you he has changed, but until you can come to terms with this inside you, his efforts will be just efforts and not him trying to change, even if he is.
I hope this helps

[This message edited by floridaredman at 11:05 AM, November 2nd (Sunday)]


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
TrainerCarrie
♀ Member
Member # 14851
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have never posted in here before, but I need to see if your replies can help me with something.

I'm about 18 months post d-day and 1 year divorced. I am doing pretty good...getting on with my life and all but one question or thought just wont go away...no amount of therapy and time has made this go away.

For those WS's who ended up divorced by choice or not did you ever feel the pain of loss like I do.

Did you ever grieve for your marriage? Miss your spouse or realize you just plain fucked up?

My reason for asking? He has married already, not the OW but a woman met shortly after she dumped him. Went from being married 10 years...sleeping with my best friend, marrying a stranger?

It was fast, it stil shocks the hell out of me. Hell for the first six months I could barely function.

Everyone says he couldnt stand being alone....

But did he ever miss me or did it ever kick in the woman he spent 17 years with is gone and you just about destroyed her? I know I will never get this answer...but I would like to know if you ever grieved your marriage or felt the loss?

Finally, I would like to say I admire you all for being here...I wish sometimes he could have been so brave as to own up.


Sometimes giving up something you want is the kindest thing you can do for yourself.

Never, ever date your neighbor.


Posts: 2820 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Almost Heaven...West Virginia.
invisible
♀ Member
Member # 21022
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading from page one about the reasons, rationale, addictions, etc. behind WS behavior.

After months of battling the pain and anger, I still love my WH and as his wife (for a short time longer)...and believer in "for better or worse", I have this urge to educate him...to expose him to these concepts...to get him to look at himself. I am not naive enough to believe it will save our marriage.

I feel if I don't do this, I have not done all I can do to help my H, save my M, and uphold my own vows.

I believe he will rebel...and lash back and demonize me like never before...but I at least I can't say I didn't try.

I can't change him or make him acknowledge this info...only he can do that...but I can make him aware.

WSs - Do i do this? Or am i fooling myself and just asking for more pain?


Me: BW - 35
Him: WH - 32
6-1-08 WH unexpectedly proposed divorce to seek "his own thing".
DDay 2 wks later (unbeknownst to WH)
WH still lying through MC. No acknowledgment - No signs of remorse
7-29-08 - I cancelled MC and Filed



Posts: 160 | Registered: Sep 2008
Heidi31
♀ Member
Member # 10571
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

QUESTIONS....

What was the thing or moment that decided you were going to come out of the fog and knuckle down to make it work?

Did you feel like you loved your partner when you were cheating or while in the fog?

AND

What did you have to do to make yourself a good partner again?

[This message edited by Heidi31 at 1:36 PM, November 2nd (Sunday)]


Separated
BS-me 38
WS-32
DDAY #1-April 16,2006
DDAY#2 10/6/12 fucking the 19 year old babysitter!
Does the knife in my chest make my Boobs look bigger??

Posts: 1679 | Registered: May 2006 | From: MAINE
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Invisible - even though we're probably D'ing, I have the same urge - I don't feel I've done all I could, said all I should. I don't know. Anyway, interested to see the answer on your question. It's a good one.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Heidi31
♀ Member
Member # 10571
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Invisible

I am in the same emotional rut...

I realized lastnight that I am trying to save the unsavable ... and I know why...He thinks his abusive maniac cheating father is a hero for saving him when his mom and dad got a divorce years and years ago (the evil stepparent story)...I realized I am trying to replace that role of "HERO" so he can open his eyes to who his father really is... A MONSTER!

I am a very realistic individual but I have obsessed day and night about helping my hubby get better be better...Now that I know why I think i'll definately stop wasting my time and focus on me and my silly obsessions...


Separated
BS-me 38
WS-32
DDAY #1-April 16,2006
DDAY#2 10/6/12 fucking the 19 year old babysitter!
Does the knife in my chest make my Boobs look bigger??

Posts: 1679 | Registered: May 2006 | From: MAINE
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WSs - Do i do this? Or am i fooling myself and just asking for more pain?

invisible,
It would be good if he came here, however if he is still deep in fog or even in fog period, he could possibly view this site as mean and cruel. Just a bunch of people venting without taking in the concepts of what they are venting about. I would tell him about it and let him see for himself. Especially the healing Library. I would suggest he look in the Healing library first, which is recommended, before reading any posts.

If you feel that doing this will help you solidify that you have done all you could do then do so. So you won't have any "what if's".

Heidi31,

Did you feel like you loved your partner when you were cheating or while in the fog?

AND

What did you have to do to make yourself a good partner again?

I was separated from my wife when the affair got physical, but during the emotional part of it, I convinced myself that my wife no longer really cared for me and that the OW did. I exaggerated things in my mind about my wife to make me dislike her and convinced myself that I didn't love her.It was all fog. I did and do love my wife. I was caught up in the "newness" of what I was having with the OW. You do not know how much I hate myself for the damage I caused to my wife and family.

To become a good partner again I became completely transparent. Whatever my wife asked me to do, that's what I did. (my story is in my profile) I accepted her outbursts when they occurred. I apologized to her constantly. I basically kissed her backside for practically 6 years. When you come out of the fog and see the damage you have done, if you have any empathy, you will feel like the most horrible person in the world.

I continue to this day to be there for my wife and kids. During my affair I put "me" first, now I put my wife and kids first, which is the way it should be


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

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