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User Topic: WS Questions for BS's
srb1608
♀ Member
Member # 19477
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes it is best to start small and simple. Just some handholding during tv. Maybe feet in the lap watching tv. Some non threatening physical contact. Kisses on the hands while holding them. I know it seems stupid, but intimacy after the A is ackward and you have to start somewhere. Try these if you havent.


BS- me 37
WS -him 37
Married 13 years

Posts: 2220 | Registered: May 2008
trahi
♀ Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have expressed this as a need and for me a Vital Love Language.

Touch is probably the hardest language for a BS to speak after infidelity. What is your BS's love language? Her tank is going to be even lower than yours so if you're not speaking her love language and filling her tank, she's not going to want to fill yours first. And she shouldn't have to.

I don't know your situation, haven't read any profiles, don't know if these pertain to you personally or not. But here are some questions to think about. If they don't fit your situation, maybe they'll help someone else.

what have you done to show your BS that you desire her? I mean, really desire her. Not just that you want to have sex with her again desire, but that you realize she is the most special woman in the world to you and you don't deserve her - type of desire. What have you done to try to show her that you don't really think she's interchangeable or disposable?

what have you done to initiate intimacy outside the bedroom? do you make eye contact from across the room, send her flirty texts or emails, call her during the day to let her know you're thinking about her?

how are your communication skills, as a couple? do both of you talk about what's bothering you, or could there be hidden resentments still that haven't been talked about?

are there pre-A issues in the marriage that still need to be addressed?

how is your BS's self-esteem now compared to pre-A? do you compliment her on her appearance? tell her you'd love to see her wear (fill in the blank) because it makes you hot for her?

have you told her everything about the infidelity, or does she think she's getting trickle truth?

are you expecting your BS to make more of an effort in the intimacy department towards you than you're willing to make towards her?

Like I said, these may or may not pertain to your personal situation. But if you at the least think about some of the questions, you might figure out what's still not there between you and your BS that's creating the lack of intimacy. You know, open a new train of thought and all that. Who knows where it could lead?


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
Sorrowfulfriend
♂ Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, open a new train of thought and all that. Who knows where it could lead

That is why I am asking. I think I am speaking her love language. I am flirting a little but she does not want touch, handholding, etc... of any kind.

I have tried romantic, space, pushing for involvement, and telling her what I would like. Nothing has been able to make her feel comfortable or interested in us. She has told me she still has urges just not with me in them.

I don't know what else I can do. The A happened 6+ years ago, and d-day was 17 months ago. I have been honest and open, provided the information she wanted and some I am sure she didn't. I have tried to provide her with good feelings for me, but nothing seems to get through.

We had a rocky marriage before, during, and after the A. I know that a lot of what she feels is related to the feelings of "Why now?" Why do I suddenly see things so differently? Why do you want me now when for so long I wasn't good enough?

I have tried to answer these for her to the best of my ability. I have been urging her to seek IC again, and she has made an appointment. That is a blessing but as she described to me, she has been putting it off because she doesn't feel that her feelings are going to change towards me...

So that is in a small way where we are at...


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SF,

We don't talk about it very often around here (it's one of those frowned upon truths), but the fact is that most BS's aren't ready to talk seriously about R -- meaning, we may be mouthing the words, but we're not really meaning them -- until we've punished our WS's to our satisfaction.

When we've reached the level of enough, then we can think about R. Some BS's get it out of the way early and just have a revenge A. Some drag it out over months or years -- I think it depends to some extent on the circumstances of the A (how long, who it as with, how often, whether this was the first/only affair), the condition of the marriage before D-day (i.e., how many other resentments does the BS now have a license to work out on their WS) and the individual personality of the BS.

I don't know what your wife's level of enough is. If you think back over your lives together and consider her pattern of grudges or dislikes for people who might have slighted her in the past, that might give you a benchmark.

I honestly don't think the WS has any power whatsoever over getting the BS to that place of enough. You're not paying for what you're doing today (though you might, if you continue to be a dumbass past D-day). You're paying for sins already committed, and being good now doesn't uncommit those sins. The punishment of the BS doesn't seem to give time off for good behavior.

So I'm not sure that it helps to think in terms of what can be done to minimize the duration of the punishment. Instead, you're better off focusing on what you can do to survive until the punishment is over. (This is presuming the WS wants to R, of course.)

The REALLY suck part, though, is the fact that once the BS *has* reached the punishment threshold...that may be when they actually decide they don't want to R at all. I'm convinced that a solid percentage of attempted reconciliations don't have anything to do with R at all. The BS on some level only wants the marriage until they've punished their WS to their satisfaction. As soon as that point is reached, then the BS can finish throwing the marriage away.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Sorrowfulfriend
♂ Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well that about sums it up doesn't it...The really Suck part.

I hope she doesn't see things quite like that, but somedays like yesterday it sure feels like she is. I just don't know anymore that I have the stamina to weather the storm.. I have said I will do anything etc...But the longer this pursists the further out of love I feel, and the less time goes between me getting by and me overreacting to something benign..


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
trahi
♀ Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This goes along with what w-a-l said about punishment. A lot of what a BS does is a test, for the WS. The WS says he/she will do anything so the BS really wants to see if they will, in fact, do anything. Will they (the WS) still love them (the BS) despite how they behave towards the WS? Or will the WS hightail it out of there (either physically, emotionally or both) and blame their desertion on the BS again?

oh, and it can be really hard to separate out the pre-A marriage issues with the A issues. I would think it'd be especially hard for your W since even though the A was over a long time ago, she didn't find out until quite a while after it was over. So it continued to be a secret and a lie between you. That changes the context of everything that went on in your marriage during that time.

Probably not helping any, huh?


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
Galoot
♂ Member
Member # 19272
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for the men: How is it possible for you to love your WW so much, in spite of the awful betrayal? Why do you take her back? Why don't you think she ought to be stoned to death?

For me, I explained it to myself as a temporary insanity (i.e., fog) resulting from an infatuation stemming from a mid-life crisis. I know I may be rationalizing, but the facts fit. She now is totally remorseful in what she did, and has been fully open and transparent. She was very much a different person back then. It is only by believing that, that I can accept what she did.

The anger and resentment I felt towards FWW, well, I've transferred that to OM. While I know that FWW was just as much responsible, if not more, in instigating and perpetuating the affair, I mentally excuse her because of her mid-life crisis. However, as far as I'm concerned OM doesn't have such an excuse. He was and is just a POS philanderer, and I hate him more than I've ever felt hate before. We see each other ocaissionally in church, and he knows the anger churning just below the surface in me. He avoids my stares.


BH (me) 54 yrs.
FWW 51 yrs
DDay 2/23/08, 1 day after PA started
NC commenced 8/02/08, final dday 8/6/08

Posts: 83 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Almost Heaven
compaq23
♀ Member
Member # 20270
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To the BSs.....at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing?

Assuming that your head is telling you "oh my God they cheated? This has to be a dealbreaker. Keep your pride and leave" and your heart is telling you "but I love them".


Posts: 90 | Registered: Jul 2008
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At 2.5 years since D-day, I still live with this conflict.

Some days my head wins.
Some days my heart wins.

It's never as easy as an "Aha!" moment where all the pieces click together and the future is resolved.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
trahi
♀ Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorrowfulfriend - had another thought. since you mentioned the love languages, have you also read The Five Languages of Apology by Gary Chapman?


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
Sorrowfulfriend
♂ Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have read it. I have been trying to appoligize as things come up, and by living my life now the way I want to be seen and loved. If that makes sense.


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
2Trusting35
♀ New Member
Member # 22494
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, April 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<<compaq23>>

My head and heart are not aligned at six months since D-Day. It changes intra-day in fact. I'm starting to think they never will be.


Me: BS
FWH: 40; A's and ONS pre-dday
DDay: Sep 2008
Kids: 3
Married 14years; Trying to R.

Posts: 27 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: GA
DoneThat
♀ Member
Member # 23040
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, April 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing?

I've done this in the past (another relationship)
I have never seen one catch up with the other. That lasted years.




Posts: 923 | Registered: Feb 2009
trahi
♀ Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, April 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

....at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing?

I'm only 7 months out from d-day so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't ever expect my heart and my head to communicate the same thing. I made a conscious decision to listen to my heart, not my head, and work on R. But that's because I have 25 years invested into my relationship with WH and I'm not wanting to exchange the life I have now for one that would be in ways infinitely harder.

If WH had cheated in the early years of our relationship, in our early 20s, pre-marriage and pre-kids, that would have been the end of it.


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
hurt789
♀ Member
Member # 20937
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, April 20th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing

I am still waiting - only 9 mo out. If I listen to both right now, I'd go crazy. I switch back and forth day to day. My WH says he is just glad my heart, although broken, over powers my head somedays. It gives him hope.
Be patient.


BS 40
WS 43
MARRIED 20
TOGATHER 22
1 PERFECT DAUGHTER
DDAY7/13/08
LTA - ALWAYS


Posts: 240 | Registered: Sep 2008
woundedspouse
♀ Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, April 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

surviving1979


I personally would appreciate any / all info that is given honestly and without intent to harm ( not saying you are)

All BS are different. SOme need info, some do not.

If I were to send it, I would send the apology and let her know that you are available to answer any questions that she may have about the A (s).

Then it is in her lap. I would send it registered to HER, so her WH cannot intercept.

JMHO.


Wounded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
woundedspouse
♀ Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, April 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SorrowfulFriend

you said:

I am at a loss because we are still in limbo with no decision on R or D. The only thing for sure that we have not done is have any kind of intimacy. No hugging, kissing, or better, just living life without it. Is this the catch that we have to overcome for us to connect in some way so that we can begin to build a real and lasting relationship?

I have expressed this as a need and for me a Vital Love Language

I guess the first question / thought that comes to mind is this:

Are you meeting her needs for R? Are you fulfilling her love language needs?

Does she have all of the answers to her questions?

How is trust being reestablished?

If the truth is out there, if you are communicating your needs, what is keeping you both from deciding to give R a chance?

Are you both in IC / MC?

R is a verb....it will not just happen. I know from our situation, that it is hard too allow yourself to be vulnerable, to share intimacy when there is such limbo. IT may take YOU putting yourself out there first, maybe many times, knowing (expecting) to be rejected. Keep trying. I know for me if I FEEL that he is giving up, I am certainly not going to put myself out there.

R is hard work..... but I still think it is worth it, but it does take 2. What are her thoughts on this? I guess the most important question I have for you is have you talked to her about this?

TAKE CARE!!!

wounded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
retailtherapy
♀ Member
Member # 23772
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, May 5th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey folks!
6 weeks since D-day, I'm still on the fence about telling the OBW.

I think my BH has decided he wants to focus on our M and just let this go. He figures that the OBW will find out eventually through karma, or if OM does it again with OW. He also said he can't bare breaking up a family.

Things have been going very well in our R so far.

Will this change? Will either one of us likely want to tell her eventually once we go through all the fog and stages of healing?



D-day March 09.
NC for good April 28, 09.
A lasted just over 1 year. First EA/then PA. OM WAS my friend for years beforehand...Buh Bye..

My BH is incredible. I am so lucky to be given a 2nd chance.


Posts: 165 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canadia- aka Canuck County
trahi
♀ Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 5th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The BW deserves to be told. You're doing her, and yourself, no favors by pretending what you did doesn't effect her.

eta: even if your H doesn't want to be part of breaking up another family, that's not his decision to make. The OM and you already made the choice that could lead to that. Don't take any more choices away from this BW. Give her the information she needs now, to make her own choices.

[This message edited by trahi at 11:22 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)]


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
DesertLotus
♀ Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, May 5th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi retailtherapy,

I think my BH has decided he wants to focus on our M and just let this go. He figures that the OBW will find out eventually through karma, or if OM does it again with OW.

Karma doesn't work that way. There is a reason this poor woman doesn't know, and it's not because "karma" hasn't informed her yet. It's because neither her husband or you have given her the truth. She doesn't know because you both made sure she wouldn't. The longer you both keep her in the dark, the more you hurt her. IMO you have an obligation to stop covering up what you've done to her. She has a right to know.


He also said he can't bare breaking up a family.

He wouldn't be. The harm is in the doing, not the telling. If their family breaks up, it will be because of what you and her husband have already done. Don't foist the consequences of your actions onto your husband. This man's wife has a right to the truth, and if she decides to end her marriage as a result, it will be her own informed choice. Allow her to make her own choices, you've taken enough from her already.


Will this change? Will either one of us likely want to tell her eventually once we go through all the fog and stages of healing?

I certainly hope so. I think keeping her in the dark is abusive and cruel. It robs her of reality - and hiding reality can not change it.

Best wishes.


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

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