But LJ believes that if given the chance I would have done that and since it was talked about so much that it is the same as doing it.
Who can blame him for thinking this way? We see time and time again on this site where WS's confess to doing things they didn't necessarily want to do or even enjoyed doing just so they could keep the fantasy going. Do you really believe you would have never committed this act had your OP pushed for it? I don't simply because denying that act could have ended the fantasy that you were feeding off of. I think that's what your BS absolutely believes too and by denying him this act, you are telling him he isn't worthy enough to do it for.
Now, am I saying you should do something you are not comfortable doing? Absolutely not. Unfortunately, this is not something that will be easily rectified as you already unfortunately know.
[This message edited by lieshurt at 9:52 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
I haven't decided yet - but I am willing to try.
My absolute deal breakers are
And make sure I come first.
I've gotten the 1st 2, and I believe my WH is clueless as to what the third entails.
He's still in the fog, and has only just admitted that the A was only his fault.
I'm doing the 180 right now, unless I'm pushed for a response - and my response generally is something along the lines of "when OW wanted - you did or gave" I want the same.
Then I get the eye roll and I don't understand response
If I went to Hogwarts, my Patronus would be my Big Sister - GWADW
Who can blame him for thinking this way?
I do not blame him for thinking this way. I just want to do things that will make him happy and to feel better.
Do you really believe you would have never committed this act had your OP pushed for it?
I really do not know what would have happened. I do believe I would have tried but I do not think I could have completed the act. I have told LJ this also.
by denying him this act
I never said that I denied him this act. I do it for him even though it is something that I didn't before. I just have a hard time completing it.
you are telling him he isn't worthy enough to do it for.
Ok, so I will do it no matter how I feel.
Adopt a chihuahua in your area
Yes, you did a horrific thing by having the A but this is not fair or right for you to have to do anything that you are not comfortable doing . It is not right to inflict this sort of punishment on you . Bullshit, it is. You did not commit the act with OM, thinking & talking about it are different....
Do not compromise the integrity that you have now gained. (( Sandcrab ))
I am sorry that this is even an issue for you.
Elected Voting Vixen
I've made a great deal more progress on forgiveness than on committing to R.
In many ways, the two are exclusive. Just because there's forgiveness doesn't mean that R is the logical follow-up. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the BS has decided the relationship is worth salvaging or that they want to be with their WS anymore.
In similar fashion, you can R without complete forgiveness, too (or with just a "commitment to forgiveness" that never achieves actual forgiveness).
Personally, at better than 18 months out, sometimes I feel like R, but most of the time I feel like I'm just waiting on the right cue to divorce.
And all of the time, I'm just taking it day by day and not making any long term decisions. Today, I'm reconciling. That's all I plan on offering for the duration of the relationship.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:47 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
BS's...how did you know you wanted to R with your spouse?
I knew I was serious about reconciliation when my husband demonstrated that he was - when he stopped lying (trickle truth) and became vulnerable and open to me.
He had already done NC, he had already changed phone #s, emails, all means of contact. He was transparent, accountable for his time, remorseful, very attentive. But he wasn't honest. And I wasn't going to waste any more time trying to reconcile with lies. When my husband finally got honest with me, the difference was like night and day. That's when I knew he was serious about saving our marriage.
Did you attain forgiveness before you decided? What was your thought process?
Oh my no! lol. Forgiveness took quite a while longer to achieve. I committed to R five months after DDay, I achieved forgiveness about a year later.
We're successfully reconciled now.
Sandcrab, I didn't say this is what you should do. I actually said you shouldn't do something you aren't comfortable with. Honestly, I don't believe it will make a difference if you "finish the act" or not. I don't believe he will be appeased by this. He may believe he will be, but I don't think so. He'll just start saying you didn't willingly do it for him, but you would have for the OP. I think your BS must work on himself in this situation and come to terms with this. The answer lies within him, not with you hun.
If any BS finds themselves triggering or angry at a question I suggest you stay off the thread. This thread is only for those BS who are far enough along to answer these questions in a non emotional way.
Please reread the first post. You will lose your profile if you don't follow those rules.
I wanted to R pretty early on because I loved him and didn't know the whole story. As he continued to hurt me with the trickle truth, not working on the issues and no NC, I fell out of love with him and didn't really want to R for a long time. I'm still on the fence really. I'm opening myself up, but I know now that I will be okay without him. So, he has put a lot of effort and I really haven't seen that yet. Forgiveness alludes me. I have to feel that he is really sorry before that happens, and he just doesn't act too sorry. It's more that he is sorry for the things he lost (friends, OW etc.)
On DDAy, I asked WH for the whole truth, I wanted him to be completely honest with me, so that I could see what it was I was facing, so that we could figure out what went wrong, and so we could decide whether R was what we both wanted and if it was possible.
I knew that I could not make a decision to R without it.
In hindsight, I think that in sayong and doing that, I showed a willingness to try to R then.
Unfortunately WH, lied/gasighter/trickle truthed for 20 months, and each time I discovered the lies, it pushed R further out of sight.
I now think I have most of the truth, probably as much as I am ever going to get.
I am struggling with R, not sure if I want it or not. But I am testing the water.
I think what will make me commit to it fully, is feeling more confident in his honesty, seeing much more commitment in him, seeing him showing true understanding of what he has done, the damge he has caused to himself, to me to our kids and to our marriage.
No I haven't forgiven him yet, and I am not sure that I will be able to.
In fact, the way I have managed to begin to try and R, is to accept that the relationship we had is over, and I have told him that he has to accept that too. I have told him that I am willing to see if I can learnt to love him again and build a new relationship.
[This message edited by neverendinghurt at 12:46 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
BS's...how did you know you wanted to R with your spouse? Did you attain forgiveness before you decided? What was your thought process?
Although X and I didn't reconcile, I feel somewhat qualified to answer this question. I wanted to reconcile from the beginning. While I hadn't forgiven him for what he'd done, I knew it was in me to forgive him. I loved him and would've committed to reconcile in a heartbeat if he had given me what I needed, which was the truth.
Since he was unable to do that, I wasn't able to reconcile with him.
If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse can happen for the rest of the day.
I know it is early (3 1/2 mos) for BH and I to move forward in any kind of way, but he's said before that he just isn't the kind of person that can just move past things. Like, he's a grudge holder. I'm very much not like this, so the concept of not being able to make a choice about how you feel about something is hard for me to understand. So I guess my question is, have you ever conciously chosen to let go? Or is it just a gradual thing? Or is it something that some people just CANNOT do?
It is almost an escape mechanism, I think. In other words, I held onto things that people had done wrong so that if something else came up, I could shout " See, I knew it . " It was self preservation in the sense that I kept a log of all the wrongs done to me thereby never having to forgive a one or allow a deeper connection.
Since then, I have worked hard on this grudge thing and have come very far....I also felt a huge weight lifted from MYSELF when I consciously decided that it was time to " let it go ".
So, in a nutshell, I was that one who thought that they could never get over it but I have and am better for it .....
...so the concept of not being able to make a choice about how you feel about something is hard for me to understand...
So you didn't have a problem going NC or breaking off the affair the moment after it started?
You understand your husband's situation more than you're willing to admit to yourself, I think, because he's going through exactly the same evaluation process about you that you went through with your OP.
Or is it something that some people just CANNOT do
I am not normally a grudge holder, typically, I get upset about something, have my say and it is over and done with.
This is different.
Infidelity is not just a matter of someone upsetting you by, it is a deep betrayal of everything that you hold dear.
I don't think being unable to move to R, is the same as holding a grudge.
In a strange way, infidelity not only damages your trust in the person that betrayed you, but it damages your trust in yourself. I think as BS's we question ourselves and our judgements after Dday. How could I have not known? How could I have been so stupid? How could I have been so blind? Why did I believe?
I think the inability to move past it and towards R, in some ways comes down to fear. Afraid to trust again, Afraid of being hurt again.
I know it is early (3 1/2 mos) for BH and I to move forward in any kind of way, but he's said before that he just isn't the kind of person that can just move past things. Like, he's a grudge holder.
I don't think there is a person alive that can just "move past" being stabbed in the back by the one person that is supposed to be guarding their back. It takes time to work through the extreme pain, the intense emotions, and be able to think rationally enough to begin to make decisions about one's life. And how you treat your husband (whether or not you are honest, transparent, remorseful, and committed to him) will go a long way toward repairing what you have done.
It takes on average two to five *years* to recover from something like this - so ya, he's not going to be able to "move past" this. There is only one way forward, and that's through it. There is no quick fix for the extensive damage. Let him know you are in this for the long haul. Because that's what it will take.
No one is obligated to reconcile, it is a gift. But most BS's are willing to offer that gift, if they have a remorseful WS willing to do what it takes.
I'm very much not like this, so the concept of not being able to make a choice about how you feel about something is hard for me to understand.
If you truly can not understand why your husband may be unsure of the future of your marriage - then you have no concept of the severity of what you have done. Have you read any of the articles in the healing library here? Have you read any of the posts in JFO? Do you *see* your husband's pain, or do you run from it? There are no easy answers to a situation like this, and it is usually advised not to make any life altering decisions for a year - because decisions made in the heat of emotion can be regretted, and because in many cases, it takes at least a year to be able to assess the situation clearly. So not being able to make a choice right now is normal. Expecting your husband to make a choice is unrealistic given the nature of the transgression. In my post DDay anger, if my husband had forced a decision on me too soon - I would have told him "if you wouldn't commit to me (and cheated instead), why should I commit now"?
I honestly think that both spouses need to explore their ability to commit, and what commitment really means - together. Commitment isn't just a word. It's also not a substitute for safety, or permission to once again take the relationship for granted. Commitment is as much a promise to onesself as it is to the other person. And it's something one *does*, not merely something one *says*.
So I guess my question is, have you ever conciously chosen to let go? Or is it just a gradual thing? Or is it something that some people just CANNOT do?
I get the impression you just want to give up, hon. It takes more than a few months to repair the damage you have inflicted, your husband is going to have a lot of healing to do - and yes, ultimately he may decide this is a deal breaker for him. Some people can't reconcile after something like this. I think you should let him make that decision for himself though.
Reconciliation isn't going to be easy. It takes two committed spouses to succeed. But I think if you cut and run now because it looks too hard, you will be not only short selling your husband, but yourself as well.
[This message edited by DesertLotus at 1:34 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
Before I knew about my H's A, I was one who did not let things go...I mean, little things. I could tell you about something my brother did to me in 1980....I analyzed and obsessed over little wrongs. And sometimes, the problem was that I was not accurate in my assessments and the wrongs were more perceived than actual ....I blew things out of proportion and actually dropped friends over minor issues ....
Than Dday hit ....So for my personality type, this was unfathomable that I could ever R without bringing this up every day for the rest of our lives....
So, while I agree that holding a grudge cannot be compared to the devastation of infidelity, personality types weigh into the R process as well. And for me,long before infidelity hit home , not forgiving acts or people by holding " grudges " was my way of not putting myself out there ....It is a way of black and white thinking that does not always work but was self serving for me .