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User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
UnbearablySadd
♀ Member
Member # 18150
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, October 12th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he mind of an SA is very cluttered. The thinking is disorganized, especially when they are trying to manage the addiction. This disorganization spills over to their physical environment. Our house has became disgusting in that there is stuff all over the place and not placed in its proper spot; whether that be the garbage or some other place. The house is clean, thanks to our cleaning ladies, but they have to clean 'around' the clutter.

If only we HAD a cleaning woman (it's lucky ole me), but other wise, I am sitting at tippy end of my DR table b/c WH's crap is all over it 0 and he has a full large bedroom for a study, and the basement, and the garage, and the cedar closet in the attic and the closet in the guest room (need I go on??).

With his IC he focuses on the collecting as protecting him from pain and loss, and of course as I've mentioned elsewhere his IC tries to normalize masturbation (hello, with porn at work???) as normal.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGQd8M5t4Ao&NR=1

it's all about James Hunter, now ;)

And here's the 180 link:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=256092


Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: This side of R that side of S
UnbearablySadd
♀ Member
Member # 18150
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, October 12th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Affirmations of Your Basic Rights

Nobody has the right to know my mind or my business or to tell me what to think, what to feel or what to do.

I have a right to my own thoughts, feelings, values and beliefs.

What I share with others about matters that concern me is determined by what feels right to me - not what they want.

If people are abusive or disrespectful to me, I have a right to tell them so, to ask them to stop and to avoid them.

I don't have to be nice to people who aren't nice to me.

I don't need abuse or to be disrespected.

I have a need and right to love myself, respect myself and to stand up for myself.

I have a right to be who I am and to harmlessly live my own life regardless of whether or not others like it.

I don't have to feel guilty for not behaving as others might want me to or for not giving other what they
expect of me.

I accept myself just as I am in the moment with whatever thoughts and feelings I have.

I accept my right to my imperfection and shortcomings and don't feel guilty for not being perfect.

I believe that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us - to be treated with love and
respect.

I believe that if I am true to myself and live by the highest truth I know, that things will turn out for the best in the long run.

(blatantly stolen from the boundaries site)

For me, WH follows those statements, I'll be gone. IO firmly believe that it is the hiding of these issues that lead to recidivism and the lies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGQd8M5t4Ao&NR=1

it's all about James Hunter, now ;)

And here's the 180 link:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=256092


Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: This side of R that side of S
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, October 13th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Short update:

We went to MC on Saturday morning. I had made the appointment on my own earlier in the week, but invited H to come with me. He did.

H is going to attend the new SAA meeting. It works out so beautifully in terms of time. He really loves his life drawing class on the same night. But since the only other SAA member lives out of town, the meeting is early. H can do the SAA and the art class thing.

H is also going to IC every 2 weeks. Every week would be better, I know, but I'm letting him make this call. I think I will find another IC. This one is great, but I have heard of a gal here that is great with those with codependent issues. I think it would serve us better to have separate IC and I think our current one would agree. We will see the old IC/MC for MC.

H's IC was amazed that H was reading a book he had picked up last spring when we were out of town at a wedding. IC thinks it's the best book on porn addiction out there. How providential that Mr. 1F1B should pick that book out over the plethora of books on SA available at this huge bookstore? Anyway, IC wants to use the book as a guide to their sessions. He asked H to highlight and flag certain portions that he feels are necessary to discuss. The book is called 'The Porn Trap' (H is asleep so don't want to wake him up looking for the author's name). H's main issue is porn...porn, porn and more porn, so this book is very relevant for him.

Anyway, that's what's happening here. We are continuing to de-clutter and feeling great about it. Our rented storage space is almost full and we are able to move around this place much easier. There is so much more to do, but it feels so good to get a good start on it. It is the holiday weekend here in Canada, but we are not bothering with the big Thanksgiving dinner. We are eating light and just chillin'. I have work to do. I have to give an exam on Friday so I have to have it composed and ready for printing tomorrow. I also have a project for a Master's course ready for this week. So it's busy without being hectic. Love it!

Just bought my grandson his Christmas gift and spent last night playing with it. It's the new Leap Pad reading thingamajigger, called The Tag. He is only one and this is for 4 to 8 years, but I think he will love it. I sure do. Hey, gotta test these things out before putting them under the tree, yeah?


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, October 13th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1F1B,
This all sounds so promising!

I'm pressed for time or I would post more...but I did see something in your post that sent up a red flag for me.


He really loves his life drawing class on the same night.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that involve drawing NUDE models?? My life drawing class in college did. I Googled "life drawing" and everything I saw said it is to teach drawing the human form. Nude.

It is my personal opinion that it would be inappropriate for my SA to attend such a class. Maybe it's just me? Are you okay with that?

{{{hugs}}}
I'll be back when I have more time!
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 1:55 AM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wondered if someone would pick up on that. Yes, his life drawing class does, on occasion, involve nude models. Most of the time, it's faces, gals in their old wedding dresses, folks in cultural garb etc. A nude model is the exception, not the norm.

I will not lie and say it was not an issue for me at one point. If I had made it a boundary, he would have stopped.

I spoke at length with him about it. I was not attempting to talk him out of going. I was just really interesting in how he can separate the two. He has convinced me an artist's mind is so concentrated on getting the nose structure just right, the exact shadow of the right breast falling on the obese stomach (the main model is a 250 lb. fellow member), the right shade of hair colour etc.

I see the work after every class and critique it for him. How the man would have time to draw the numerous views expected and to spend time oogling...well I suppose if he were more accomplished.

He just finished his best nude work two weeks ago where he used a picture of a clothed lady sitting on the back of a cruise ship and put a nude body on her. It's exquisite.

So as you can see, *at this point* I do not have a problem with it. I checked with my BIL, who went to art school years ago, on this. He's not an SA but said he was a horney young buck back then, loved oggling women, but when he was doing nude art, it was like a totally different mindset.

My SA will have to make the decision for himself if he finds this is too difficult for him in the future, or just the right decision in terms of the association with 'evil' if you will. He also stated that by attending this new SAA group, he will have to be quiet about his activities later that evening. He may even decide to forego attending on nights with a nude model. He believes in the Biblical admonition not to cause your brother to stumble.

But we shall see. I may change my opinion on this again. He may be lying, as these guys do, about his ability to separate; I don't know. We'll see.

[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 2:01 AM, October 14th (Tuesday)]


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh and 7yrs....gee, one thing at a time too. He has resisted meeting with this other SA, and the concept of a 12 step meeting for so long. I just want him there. Insisting that life drawing class should be dropped would really set him off. I have a feeling that if these meetings go well, Mr. 1F1B will eventually drop his class, preferring to spend longer times with the other SAA members after the meeting. And in looking back, H has been missing class a lot in the last while. He's getting bored with it. I think he's looking at other art forums. He does want to perfect his face drawing skills though. He wants to do some portraiture and this class has given him the skills for it.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1F1B,

I'm glad things are looking so good for you right now. It's nice to hear some optimistic news!

I had a bit of hurdle this weekend. We drove into Toronto for a friend's son's first birthday party. This is my husband's best friend who now lives in San Francisco so was just up for Thanksgiving. He wanted my husband to stay so they could go out for dinner at night and catch up. We tried to get a sitter for the kids and stay at a hotel, but my eldest daughter was feeling sick with a sore throat and we couldn't get a sitter so I decided to just drive back home. My husband would stay in a hotel and return on train the next day.
Well...my husband's hotel was smack in the middle of where he used to visit bath-houses and where there's plenty of "action" to be had for anyone interested. I felt uncomfortable but not worried, if you know what I mean. Kinda like putting a piece of chocolate cake in front of a dieter, but feeling fairly confident that they won't go for it.
In any case, my husband knew I was uncomfortable and assured me that nothing was going to happen beyond going out with his friend.
It's situations like this that drive the point home that I really can't control him. That ultimately the decision to act out or not is his, not mine. He says nothing happened and that he wasn't tempted though said he was "aware" the possiblity was there. I have no reason to disbelieve him but, like I said, I'm aware myself that I have only his promise to rely on. So far, that's enough.
So, I got through it, even realizing how clear my own boundaries are. If he acted out, if he gave me reason for suspicion, I'm done. And I feel quite "safe" in that knowledge. I would be find. Sad, but fine.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With my SA hubby it's this way:

He's been into porn on and off (computer) and 3 years ago began frequenting strip clubs. A year ago, he developed an EA (emotional affair) with one of the strippers there in this past April, they shared phone numbers, and were "seeing each other" outside the club. He says there was no sex. I think I believe him, but IMO, nude lap dances are sex to me, and so is cell phone chatting 5 times daily, and restaurants they met at (supposedly 3-5 times). He swore on the Bible they had no full-on sex, and being he's a Christian, I do believe him, but of course I do not know for sure.

My husband, since moving home, has said he wants to remain married because he loves me, and our kids, and family, and that woman was a mere "fantasy". He did say though he was "in love" with her and they had a deep emotional connection he never felt with me. Well, WTF????

He claims this has nothing to do with his sex addiction, rather he met someone, (claims it could have been anywhere--McDonalds, etc.)))) and they started out. I do not believe this. It was by him going to a strip club which caused this. Is this NOT a sex addiction???? He claims it is not and he doesn't need SA meetings. Our MC totally disagrees, and feels he his problem has excalated so much he even could use a live in facility.!!!

What is anyone's views about this?

I cannot force him to be in SA, he doesn't think he needs it, so I've decided not to pursue it. IF, he retreats back to strip clubs, other women, etc. he will be out on the street or on the couch for a designated period of time, and then I will insist he up his IC, attend SA meetings 3 times a week or more, and if he does not, it will be quits. Somehow I feel maybe he's really over this garbage in his life once and for all. He says he doesn't need it anymore, and promised to never step foot in another club. Swore on the Holy Bible actually.

Maybe I'm being a complete fool.

I love him and believe him. But I will NOT be trampled on and be unfaithful to any longer.

And I do not agree that if a sex addict is NOT in SA they're still acting out. I feel healing is possible without SA meetings. It's a choice.
P.S. I really recommend every couple see the movie "Fireproof". It just could change your marriage. I'm praying it contributed to changing ours.

[This message edited by Ingrid at 4:30 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eternal, you are so right when you say we cannot control our SA spouse. If we do, they only learn to lie better and better. There will always be naked women anywhere they want to find them.

Ingrid, I too believe your H is in denial about the connection between his SA and the affair with this woman. SA is not only about sex; it's also about the need for attention and affirmation. My H is only now beginning to see the connection.

I believe he was as excited to go and see her to have her treat him like the bomb, to validate him, as he was about the possible sex. He double dosed on ED drugs EVERY time he went to see her, but neither, especially her, really cared if he made use of their effect. Many a morning, she would say she felt bad that he took those drugs and they just went to sleep without having sex. It's so complicated and convoluted.

I do not know if SA are all acting out if they are not in a 12 step program. I really don't know. This is new ground for us.

I do know that my H left here tonight to go to his first meeting (probably with just one other guy who drives an hour and some each way from his home to here) feeling pressured by everyone; me, the IC, this other guy who just simply phoned him to inform him of the creation of this new group, the guy's wife who left him for awhile when she first found out thus making him realize his need to whatever it took to save his marriage and heal, the mailman, the garbage man, the candidates in our election today, the 3 cats...well, you get the picture. I tried to tell him I did not mean to pressure him, but that's not true. He senses the hope I have that this may actually work, despite my best efforts to squash it as much as possible. He feels that pressure.

One minute he says he's doomed to fail; the next he is saying he can beat this on his own, with consistent reading, etc. The man is not a disciplined guy in the least. How he thinks he will be so determined to beat this that he will read daily and work consistently with online sites such as Recovery Nation is beyond me.

But then I just don't know, despite the excellent postings from our resident experts, like 7 yrs. No offense, but I have to see it for myself to really believe. Me and the Biblical Thomas, I guess.

I have read many times in many resources that most experts insist that a 12 step program and regular counseling is the key; the only successful key. Our son, a recovering drug addict with tendencies to replacement addictions such as SA, insists these programs are the only way.

We are also Christians, but have been 'loose living' ones our entire Christian lives/marriage. How does he think he's all of a sudden going to live a disciplined spiritual life now?

Anyway, I just prayed that God would hold my tongue when he comes home and not ask him one question about how it went. I need to let him initiate any discussion.

This week has been emotionally exhausting. I feel totally spent.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H came home after the meeting, grabbed me, hugged me tight and told me he loved me. He is in a very good mood. I have not pressed for details, as these meetings after all, are private. But he is in a good mood. I'm not pushing it.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
mrsmooch
♀ Member
Member # 14983
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, October 14th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A question from a newbie.

Has anyone got a WS that's more addicted to the love side of things than the sex? Mine seems to swing between the two and right now he's mid-both. He's euphoric and ditching times he should be spending with our daughter so he can meet with the OW who is also married. He rages at me if I challenge this behaviour and I just don't know what to do. I can't control him, obviously, but it's so damaging and he doesn't see any of it.

Advice?


WH - 40
Me - 40
M - 11 years Daughter - 5 yo
D-day1 6th March 2007 D-day2 10th Sept 2008 plus all the others before...
ONS x 2
OEA x 2+ OSA x 12+
EMA x 1 (?)

Like my age, it's time to stop counting.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Australia
Mourning123
♀ Member
Member # 19951
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mrsmooch,

Can't really help answer your question as my WH didn't find "love" just the rush of acting out.

Have you told the OW's BH? The lights turn on from the darkness where this A is hiding when OW's BH is told.


Posts: 372 | Registered: Jun 2008
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My SA is probably more of a love addict when he acted out with real live women. His main issue is viewing porn and compulsive masturbation. However when he crossed over to live partners, he used a lot of 'love' language. He told me that when he talked with contacts on AFF he said things like, "I just want to hold you and caress your body." while these chicks were more into talking real dirty. He truly has been more in love with being in love than really understanding what real love is--if that makes any sense.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the love or EA part of it is that SA have that need for affirmation, for appreciation, for connection, for something, someone to FILL a huge void in their life. I feel this only can be filled from God or a Higher Power, not even from us, their wives. It's that they are lacking. It's not love, when they have love from their wives (us).

SA meetings help them and S-anon helps us realize only a Higher Power can truly fulfill the deepest longings in our souls.

That's my take on it.

We wives can sometimes make our husbands our higher powers. Thinking a person is our everything. I know I have, and I do, and I have felt without his love, I am nothing. I am learning this is not true. We all must know this is not true. There's a higher plan for everyone in the human race.

God Bless Everyone~


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have always believed in God.

Felt abandoned by him 3 yrs ago but have now realized that God didn't do this to me or cause this to happen to me.

This is all WH's doing.

WH starts IC with CSAT today. It'll probably be a just get to know him today, but this is progress.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mrsmooch,

I am not certain if love is ever the right word, as to me, love entails caring for the other, willing to compromise and sacrifice for the other, and working as a team together through the good and the bad times. Unless a WS actually falls out of love with BS and falls in love with OW, and I am certain it happens, I strongly doubt our WS's "love" the OW's.

In my case, WS never "loves" the OW's, even though he might have said the words to OW's or might even think he was in love with OW's. Even he knows he would only "love" OW's when they are sexy and dressed up nice, not when they have a flu with runny nose, not when they need support when they lose their job, etc. Conversely, he knows if he loses a job or suffers from an illness, none of the OW's will wipe the snot off his nose, if you know what I mean.

WS's may feel lust and attraction, but that is hardly love. What WS's love is the attention, ego boost, and in my case, the escape to a fantasy land away from the day-to-day routines and problems in real life.

It may be worth it for you and WS, with and without the help of a marriage counsellor, to explore how each of you define love. I understand that many SAs do delude themselves into thinking that they are in love with the OW's, and not until they are pressed to explore what love means do they realize their feeling is not love. In addition, it will be enlightening to both of you if you can discuss how you view sex, and whether you believe sex equates love and intimacy.

Having said that, the fact that our WS's might or might not have loved OW's does not diminish the dishonesty, betrayal, lies and manipulation.

Finally, I think your question expresses your sentiment that all of us here have to struggle with, that is, we are hurt by so many facets of a WS' behaviours that the triggers seem to be never-ending. One day I get sad about the physical side of things (how WS touchd OW's, etc.), the next day I get sad about the emotional betrayal (how they shared time together and how WS made efforts to seduce OW's), the day after I get sad about the lies and disrespect.... I believe only a remorseful and committed WS, counselling, and time will ease these triggers.

My heart goes out to you, and I hope you will count on us here to listen and share.

b

[This message edited by birdwatch at 1:05 PM, October 15th (Wednesday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pebbles,

That's a positive step forward for your husband -- and you. Good luck!

birdwatch,
How is MC working for you? My H and I stopped last year in large part because I was feeling "therapied out" -- my life seemed to be about keeping therapy appts. and it was exhausting (I had also lost my mom two weeks after my husband's disclosure, so was processing all that, too).
Now I'm wondering if we should give it a try again. I'm skeptical -- my experience with MC has been a bit of a time waster. However, I think my H is a lot more motivated now...and I'd like to find out if I'll ever feel more for my husband than he's a good friend and great father.
Just wondering what your -- and others' -- experiences have been re. MC.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Birdwatch:

You say this:

"WS's may feel lust and attraction, but that is hardly love. What WS's love is the attention, ego boost, and in my case, the escape to a fantasy land away from the day-to-day routines and problems in real life."

I see this and realize this too, in my own life.

Thanks for sharing this. I see this, and my WS has even said this was why.

Good Luck and may God Bless!


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's not "love."

SAs are desperately seeking affirmation of their manhood. (Not the body part, their essence as a man. What it is that makes them a man. Their manliness, as it were.) Probably because of their childhood. Most SAs are/were enmeshed in some manner with their mother and have/had a distant father. In my rSA's case, he was over enmeshed with his mother (constantly seeking affirmation from her but it's impossible for a mother to give that to a boy) and had a distant father. So, he never got that affirmation of his manhood from his father because my rSA was not a typical ranch kid and didn't enjoy the stereotypical "man" things his father enjoyed like hunting. My rSA was intellectual and preferred reading and learning. He felt alone. He felt different. He sought affirmation of his manhood through porn. With porn he was in control. She was whatever he wanted her to be and he was whatever he wanted to be. He could fantasize being the ultimate man.

Having an affair (for a SA) is nothing more than "porn with skin on." He is simply seeking affirmation of his manhood and to get his fix. He's not in love with the affair partner, he doesn't KNOW the affair partner! You can't love someone you don't know. SA is an intimacy disorder at it's core. Un-recovering SAs don't know how to have REAL intimacy. (Not even with their wives!) There is no intimacy in porn therefore there is no intimacy in "porn with skin on." There can't be. They can delude themselves to think there is but there is not. They can use the words but only if they think it will get them what they are seeking; sex that they mistakenly think will affirm them as men.

SAs need affirmation of their manhood and they cannot get it from women (not even their wives). Men need other MEN to affirm them. That's why going to SA meetings and making bonds with other men is so vital to recovery. They finally have a place to seek that affirmation of their manhood that doesn't involve women and sex. That is why groups work.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Cool  Posted: 3:11 PM, October 15th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SA meetings help them and S-anon helps us realize only a Higher Power can truly fulfill the deepest longings in our souls.

Perhaps your husband's higher power is God, if that is helpful to him, that's wonderful. My husband's higher power is his desire for a life free of this addiction. His higher power is his desire to be a good husband and father. It has nothing to do with God because he is an atheist (as am I.)

I respect that others believe and I'm happy that it is helpful to them but I also think that people need to know that agnostics and atheists can be just as successful in recovery as believers.
7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 3:15 PM, October 15th (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
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